Chinese Accupuncture

[Jazzbird]

Briss I am so sorry your OH won't talk about things but I am very happy that Dr E has described your cycle as perfect!! He really sounds like he knows what he is doing. It can be so hit and miss with acupuncturists but I know that when the diagnosis and treatment is right - it can and does work. I have seen quite a few over the last several years and there are only 2 that I would go back to. I wish your OH would see him, I know there are never any guarantees, but I think you have the best chance to make a difference with Dr E.

But we should celebrate your statistics, and your chart. This is really positive Briss and proof that fertility is not set in stone and responds dynamically to treatment. So many ladies get written off with a few test results. I remember reading on my fertility acupuncturist's wall a letter from a lady who had been diagnosed with poor egg quality and several IVF failed attempts. She had had acupuncture for 6 months and conceived on her next round of IVF, with the hospital saying that she had excellent eggs. Not sure how they measured it, but it was lovely to read.

 

[melly2]

Allison: I don't recall how much Clomid he took. It was basically one pill a day. It some improvement on his counts, but not enough to make a difference.

 

[kits]

Hey Briss, really sorry to hear about your hubby's news, he must be so devastated. Bless him.

I'm sorry if my fertility ignorance is coming through, but is there any chance in the slightest that all the bd'ing has influenced his levels?

I'm so happy your chart really looked so nice & healthy, but I'm crushed you & your hubby are going through.

Praying for you hun & if you ever wanna chat I'm on what's app & all those apps. Don't ever feel like your alone hun.

Sending lots of love to all of you.

 

[Briss]

Thank you, ladies for your support! our urologist said that at this stage he is not expecting any further improvement as it's been 6 months… I do not even know where we go from here to be honest. I guess FS was right and there was nothing we could have done to improve his SA. Just wasted time. looks like it's ICSI/IMSI.

Dr E said he is not an expert on male side of things but there are other acupuncturists that may help. unfortunately it's out of the question with DH. He would not even take vitamins now. It's all pretty devastating

I have heard so many stories of various fertility related miracles, even today I was told about a woman who had 8 failed IVFs and got pregnant the very next cycle naturally while on holiday. It's all great, just a shame I have not seen this happen to me…

Vits, often BD will reduce the count but supposed to improve the quality. he did his SA after 3 days of abstinence so it should have been sufficient

 

[Briss]

just got my today's FSH results and they are pretty depressing to say the least. oestrogen is really high at 360 and possibly indicative of an ovarian cyst but most terribly despite such high oestrogen my FSh is still very high at 14.5 (taking into account that high oestrogen is supressing FSH, my true FSH is even higher)

I am struggling to understand these results, I had such a great cycle and my FSh was supposed to be lower not higher. all I can say is it's very lucky we went for the test at IVF clinic last month and did not wait.

 

[alison29]

how confusing

 

[Blythe]

Briss - i saw your new FSH of 14.5. Was this taken by the NHS or did you do it privately? How long was there between the 11.8 and the 14.5 result?

As Jazzbird said you appear to be responding very well to your treatment and i believe this will help so much in achieving your dreams. I cannot imagine the disappointment your DH is feeling with these results after such dedicated commitment. it just makes no sense that his sex drive has gone through the roof yet the numbers don't reflect this. Was his urologist very adamant about natural conception with his results or was that Dr E that said that?

Is IMSI treatment cheaper in Germany? I have read that some clinics can work with clinics over here re monitoring so perhaps it would not be too disruptive.

Briss - you are in my thoughts everyday and i wish only the very best for you

 

[Blythe]

Kits - how are you? i see you have a nice little temp rise there? Have you thought anymore about leaving your job?

 

[kits]

I wonder if this may be anything to do with the vitamins you take. I remember you mentioning that you're taking extra vit D to force different results.

Again, mega ignorant here but maybe it's time to re-jig your intake? Something isn't adding up.

I hope Dr. E can help shed a bit of light onto this.

Take care, loads of hugs everyone!

 

[kits]

Blythe

My chart is driving me mental, I think it's because I've started spinning properly this month. So much so that I'm going to a new acupuncturist tomorrow morning.

No idea if I ovulated or what my temp spike means! Will probably get another bfn in a few mins.

Yes, I am slowly getting closer to quitting. My sis will be here June 30th, so it'll probably be just after she leaves. However, if I'm not pregnant then I think I may take a cycle break break so I can push real hard to quit now & get the kitchen sorted with a more aggressive attitude so it's all sorted.

I'm going to play in the pub kitchen this Saturday with the England match, going to serve buffalo wings & pulled pork sandwiches. I've made both before for a small super bowl party, now we'll see if the rest of the town like them!

Still really looking forward to your journal hun

Praying for all of us!

 

[kits]

Yep, another bfn.

A lady mentioned that I may genuinely have O'd on my cd24. May be... I had a ton of creamy cm today, much more than usual. My boobs really hurt yesterday.

Funny thing is, cd13 I had +opk on brand A, just a high surge on brand B. On cd24 I got neg opk on brand A, +opk on brand B.

Who knows? I give up!

Last time I had a chemical, the following cycle lasted an extra 3 weeks & it threw my hormones all over the place. It was so difficult for me, I'm really hoping that doesn't happen again

Can't wait for my ACU tomorrow morning.

 

[Briss]

Blythe, I have taken my FSH 4 times! crazy I know but it was worth it cos I can see how it work together with estogen and cycle day. I now know that for me personally the best day to do FSH test is CD4 as my estogen is quite high (but not too high to make the test invalid) and it suppresses my FSH to what seem like the lowest level in that cycle. My results were:

FSH Last cycle:

CD2 16 (E70) – private
CD4 (am) 13 (E 250) - private
CD4 (pm) 11.8 (E 280) - NHS

FSH This cycle:

CD4 14.5 (E340) – private

I do believe I had a cyst last cycle (E340 is just too high for CD4) so it will probably disappear with my next period so maybe that's just messing with my FSH this cycle and I can see improvement next month?

DH is taking it so much harder than I expected. it makes me feel so terribly upset to see him like this. Dr E said with this result natural conception is impossible but he also said one test is not enough to make conclusions that there was no improvement as SA varies a lot from week to week. the urologist just said that it is not going to get better with this treatment as optimal results are usually seen within 6 months. I am trying to get DH to carry with the vitamins but it's going so hard cos he really cant see any point. I am trying to come up with various lies why this result is just not accurate so I could get his motivation back but deep down we are so disappointed, one more avenue explored and failed as everything else …

DH does not any more appointments but I really think we should go and ask questions, clearly his testosterone has increased so why it is not being used by his body to produce sperm? I need to understand that.

Blythe, I am hoping your cycle is going well and really look forward to hearing your good news.

kits, sorry about bfn but maybe you just ovulated later, it's so frustrating when your cycle does not make sense. I am hoping acu can help get your cycles sorted.

there is a correlation between your Vit D levels and AMH. sometimes ladies were getting false AMH results simply because they were vit D deficient. once they corrected the deficiency with vit D supplements their AMH seemed to have increased. I do not have vit D deficiency but I just figured some extra vit D may push my AMh a little up. I am still not 100% it worked because my previous AMH results were done abroad and on a different scale so I have to use a formular to convert them but who knows maybe this conversion was just not accurate and my AHM levels were higher than I thought.

 

[Blythe]

They collected 14 eggs yesterday but i just got a call and none fertilised.

the embryologist was saying stuff on the phone but i just could not understand any of it although she did say it is possible that they were over mature. They stimmed me for 12 days on 450 gonal f and i believe that they left me too long - i kept calling them back on friday saying i wanted a monday ET but they said i would be better for a weds one. They did not take any bloods at all throughout the cycle nor scan me for 5 days at the end.

i am totally devastated

 

[alison29]

UGH I am so sorry WTF! That was total incompetence on their part. Giant hug over the internet all the way from Florida.

 

[kits]

Blythe!!! I'm, so, so, sooo sorry. You poor thing, so heartbroken for you.

What the hell is wrong with these doctors?! Is this a private practice or NHS?

 

[Briss]

Blythe, I am devastated for you. I hate these clinics, why cant they do anything right! 14 eggs!!!!! – this is amazing result, not surprisingly considering your stats, but absolutely phenomenal. why did they need to over stim you?? bloody idiots!! was it IVF or ICSI? I think they are still going to observe your eggs for a day or two they may still fertilise

12 days on 450 gonal f - obviously too long on such high dose it could easily compromise the egg quality but for some this is the only way to get more than 1 egg. but 14 eggs! still cant believe it – excellent result, I am just heartbroken they ruined it for you. I totally blame the clinic but I know this is hardly helpful. I am upset for you cos IVF should have worked for you, you are responding well and producing good results, with proper management you could have had (and still can!) a successful cycle.

any chance you can get any money back? I know this is probably not what you want to hear but I'd try to find funds and do it again in 2-3 months with a different clinic. it's just a question of getting the right protocol (it does look like short protocol works for you) and proper cycle management for it to be successful.

 

[gingmg]

Blythe I am sooooo sorry to read your update. I blame the clinic as well. 14 eggs is outstanding!! You should have been more closely monitored at the end to prevent over maturation. I am so sorry. Hugs to you! Do something nice for yourself. This is not the end of the road, but a painful detour.

 

[melly2]

Blythe: Ugh...that sucks. I'm so sorry to read this. I do agree with everyone else, you should have been monitored a lot more. 14 eggs is a great result, so you definitely had it in you. I'm so sorry.

 

[BBbliss]

Blythe, I'm so sorry you just had this horrible experience, I agree that you should have been monitored more carefully. I had bloods every day and scans almost almost every day. This is so heartbreaking with 14 eggs and nothing. I really feel for you Blythe I wish I could give a real hug right now. Take time to heal your body and know that this is not the end, better will come

Briss, so sorry for your DH's results, I hope he doesn't give up and at least goes back to supplements and herbs. It worked for us and DF still takes them, we talked about doing another SA to see where we stand now. I still need to congratulate you on your improved stats, it's really amazing what you've done and I hope it's what you needed to get your treatment approved.

Kits, sorry you've been having a hard time with your cycle, what a bummer, I'm sure you just want AF to put an end to it so you can start over.

 

[Blythe]

thank you ladies. still quite messed up but know this will pass as these hormones leave my system and my insides stop cramping from the EC. i awoke yesterday with such hope but i know tomorrow will be a better day. i looked at myself yesterday in the mirror and saw what TTC has done to me these last few years. i look like i have been in an abusive relationship. I'm battered and overweight and unfit.

Im afraid this really was our one shot with IVF and extra funds for another round is not an option. So unless they offer me a free round on monday when i see the embryologist/consultant no more treatments. i am only going so i can check to see if natural conception is even a remote possibility for us now and why the fuck didn't they try and rescue it with ICSI then i can put a big line under it all. Then i want nothing more to do with the place.

i have 3 months worth of clomid in my cupboard and am thinking of taking that along with my Chinese herbs for next 3 months with a break in between.

Kits - i self funded in a NHS clinic.

Briss - i noted my stats below. Once i had done EC the embryologist came round and went through the sperm sample and eggs and said she thought IVF was best option and no need for ICSI.

IVF STATS [both 42 y/o]

ME

Day 3 Bloods [taken 5 months prior to starting IVF]
FSH 7.2 IU/L
LH 8.0 IU/L
OESTRADIOL 259 pmol/L

AMH: [taken 1 year prior to starting IVF]
6.4 pmol/L

Baseline AFC:
AFC: 13 [6L/7R]
1 x 1.2cm cyst on left ovary [no bloods taken to determine type]

Meds:
450 iu Gonal f [CD 2 to CD 13]
Cetrotide [CD 6 to CD 14]
Ovitrelle to trigger

DH

SC: Taken 5 months prior to starting IVF
Count: 18m [after wash expects it to be 12 m]
Motility: 70 %
Morph: 6%

EC day:
Count: 17m
Motility: 80 %
Morph: 7%

IVF SCAN STATS

CD2 - Baseline
13 follies

[CD9 8th day of stims] – follies over 10mm
L: 10 = 10.7, 12.5, 15.2, 13.4, 12.6, 11.0, 11.6, 13.2, 12.3
R: 6 = 15.6, 13.2, 17.5, 11.1, 14.4
= 14 follies
Lining: very good

[CD11 10th day of stims] – Follies over 10mm
10 [x 3], 11 [x 4], 12 [x 4], 13 [x 3], 14 [x 5], 15 [x 5], 16, 17 [x 2], 19 [x 2], 20
= 30 follies [This is what the chart said although nurse said 18 good looking follies]
Lining: very good

EGG COLLECTION DAY [CD 16]
14 [11 mature]

EC + 1
No fertilization took place.