Chinese Accupuncture

I'm trying to be optimistic here but I just got my AMH results back and it's bad. .65 which means I have low ovarian reserve. Not surprising since I'm 41.5 but still saddens me. Sigh. Alrighty then, I'm just going to have to pick myself up and hope for at least one good quality egg to meet one good quality sperm.

Yes it can still happen, how long have you been trying, has your partner been tested also? I am now just half way through IVF. After 4 years or trying and my husband has low sperm count so no other option really

I'm hoping to be a single mom by choice. Just never found my prince charming. He must have taken a wrong turn somewhere. :coffee: I just now began the whole "get me pregnant before it's really too late" process. I was/am heading towards having an unmedicated IUI using donor sperm in August. IVF really isn't in the cards for me since I can't afford it. I fear what the FSH results will tell me. I just made an appointment for acupuncture hoping that will help.

When you say you're halfway through IVF, what does that mean?

*may baby dust hit us all in the ovaries*

You don't need a men in this world we live in, good luck. I had to have my embryos frozen as I got OHSS a couple of weeks back so we hope to have a frozen transfer in August or sept. I love acupuncture it really help stabilise my cycles as it could be a bit long at times. Take care
 
BRISS i have't read through all the posts yet but I would say that your cycle has not been better on the herbs..
 
Someday if you are already paying for donor and IUI why not medicate to improve you chances
Briss I would ditch those herbs if I were you, not the accu just the herbs. But since i am not pregnant either do the opposite of what I think ;/
 
alison, thank you. I am really tempted to give up the herbs but on the other hand there is nothing else except TCM that at least promises to get the FSH down. If by some miracle we can start IVf next cycle than the herbs are out anyway but if the funding will get delayed further I may do the herbs for one more cycle. I cant make up my mind and will be speaking to Dr E. I am just so upset with this. I need to do the blood test to check my FSH next cycle but I am so very scared that I think I may not want to know. somehow I feel that the headache, sickness, high FSH, early O are all parts of the same puzzle, something bad is happening and I cant figure out what.

I've read somewhere that apparently FSH start rising in TWW the previous cycle (not from CD1 as it's commonly thought) so maybe I do need some other herbs to take in TWW for that? It makes sense cos the sickness started on CD 1 in the morning and I think by then my body already knew it was going to be a short cycle cos the hormones were out of order. don't know maybe I am making this stuff up but there is very little scientific info on how FSH works in our brain.

My left ovary is ovulating again (it's so rare that my right one is doing anything), it's still sore so the egg must be still in there about to be released. I am hopping if we BD tonight we are still with a chance, cant deal with hopeless cycles, I need at least a glimpse of hope for a miracle to survive TWW. Very concerned about having only one HIGH on CBFM makes me think there is not enough oestrogen to support good follicular development and egg quality might be compromised.

Blythe, Dr E actually agreed with you that not heavy AF and early O does not mean I did not have good lining that cycle but if you read Lewis' book that's her view that early O i.e. CD10 and earlier means egg quality issue + lining issue. and that would explain my light AF. having said that my mum's AF was always 2-3 days, she was so surprised to find out mine was 6 and yet she had sufficient lining for 2 healthy pregnancies (obviously both before 35).
 
I'm so sorry Briss, :hugs: Have a good chat with Dr. E & let him how you're feeling & what's going on.

I don't really know much about early menopause but maybe try some light exercise. I know it's supposed to decrease your cycle length if you exercise too much but a bit might help produce some good hormones naturally.

I had a TV scan today. No heartbeat but they saw the gestation sac. My hcg levels for yesterday 10.07.14 were at 8987, last Wednesday 02.07.15 they were 365, I think I'm happy with that. No info on progesterone results yet.


Lots of :hug: and love ladies
 
Yay sounds good kit. How exciting to see the sac at least. Are you having any symptoms yet?
 
Someday if you are already paying for donor and IUI why not medicate to improve you chances
Briss I would ditch those herbs if I were you, not the accu just the herbs. But since i am not pregnant either do the opposite of what I think ;/

alison, I'm going to ask for a medicated IUI. I need all the help I can get.
 
Hi girls!

I was just wondering, does acupuncture help lower the risk of miscarriage?

I am 37 with two little boys (aged 5 and 3). I had no problems conceiving them and pregnancies were good.

At the end of last year we decided to ttc baby number three. We have got pregnant fairly easily twice since then but unfortunately both have ended in a miscarriage (a blighted ovum at 7 weeks and a miscarriage at 9 weeks showing that the baby had died at around 8 weeks). In UK they don't do tests until three recurrent miscarriages. I am not sure whether it was just 'bad luck' as they said or something else such as my age that is causing the miscarriages but I am scared to try again. I do want a third child so I suppose I will have to 'bite the bullet' at some point. I am thinking of waiting two cycles to try and get healthy and lose weight first.

Does acupuncture or cupping help with lowering miscarriage risk?

Thanks
xxx
 
Hi Poppy - sorry to hear about your miscarriages, that must be really tough.

I'm an acupuncturist (although I'm not currently practicing). In Chinese Medicine recurrent miscarriage is a sign of an underlying deficiency. For example, the older we get & the more children we have - both drain kidney energy which is required for strong healthy pregnancies. So I would definitely recommend acupuncture and chinese herbs to build up your reserves preferably before you get pregnant. I would start at least 3 months before you plan to conceive - ideally have acu once a week and take herbs. You would need a fully qualified acupuncturist and herbalist. If you are in uk try the British acupuncture council website where you can find one who is fully qualified and registered.

Of course there is always the possibility that the embryos were not genetically viable and this does happen as we get older - whether or not acupuncture can influence or prevent this from happening is not really known.

Have your cycles changed since your pregnancies? Do you get light or really heavy periods? What is your cycle length like? Do you have any other signs/symptoms in your general health (e.g. Tiredness, ibs, insomnia, night sweats, headaches etc)

Good luck
 
Ps Poppy - I forgot to add that miscarriages are also very draining on the body in Chinese Medicine - so if you miscarry and get pregnant quickly again, it increases the likelihood of another miscarriage.

I'd also like to say that people on this forum have had mixed results with acupuncture - just to add some balance to the question.

Anyone can set up as an acupuncturist - so it's very important to pick one with good training.
 
I had my first session with the acu today and it went well. I was a little nervous in the beginning but it ended up being very relaxing. I don't know if this means anything but the only needles I felt go in were both on my left side (foot and hand). Come to think of it, about half way through the session I felt a sensation - I don't know how to explain it- on the left side of my waist towards my back. Maybe it was all in my head. Anyway, I'll be going twice of week for the foreseeable future.
 
That sounds like a pretty good experience some day :) I've heard some ACU like to make a plan with 2 x a week sessions, hope you keep enjoying it. Are you taking any herbs?

Jazz, I didn't realize in TCM that recurrent mc were so draining to the body. Eeek! I mean it makes sense. I hope my kidney's have had enough ACU to be OK! Thanks always for all your information & advice.

I'm also really sorry to hear about your losses Poppy. :flower:

How have you been feeling Briss? I do hope the weekend has allowed you to relax a bit, I know you're so conflicted :hugs: I think it's great that your practicing your mini's, I haven't been able to & just keep calling myself a fat slob! But you're a size 10!! Maybe you're being a bit harsh on yourself, I bet you're still beautiful.

Blythe, I know it's not easy for you but I think all your efforts are fantastic & such a positive influence!

Allison, if you insist :haha: I seem to be unable to get out of bed, feeling sorry for myself with my nausea. No actual sickness but I'm laying here so hungry but so nauseated don't think I want to get up & my sister leaves tomorrow morning :( I've been burping more & more each day :blush: I've just entered my 6th week. I poas Friday morning & my test line was much stronger than the control line :happydance:

Lots of :hug: ladies always praying for ya!!
 
I think I'm having side effects from yesterday's acupuncture.

1. I had acu on CD5 (my period was over CD4) but now I'm spotting. Is this normal?
2. I just noticed this large, flat, round brown discoloration on my shoulder next to me neck. To be fair, I'm not 100% sure it wasn't there before yesterday's acu but I'm pretty sure it wasn't. It doesn't hurt but now I'm worried. Does anyone have any idea what it might be?
 
how are you, ladies? hope everyone had a good weekend. I treated myself to reflexology yesterday, really enjoyed it – so relaxing! Found this place on Edgware road which I thought was just a Chinese shop but turned out it's a huge place and they do all sorts of things. pretty expensive for some reason so I do not think I will be coming back. I asked for some herbs to use in my foot soaks and they offered something for 120 pounds! but they also said these herbs should not be used in the first 3 months of pregnancy. I did not know foot soaks can be so dramatic.

Been reading ZW's book again and she makes a point that women do not nurture themselves enough and this is very important cos it's the only way for certain chemicals to be produced (forgot what they are called) which are crucial for pregnancy and egg development. the point is we need lots of cuddles, touches, massages and orgasms!! re protein she actually says too much protein as well as too little protein is bad for fertility. I cant recall who came up with 70-80 grams a day but apparently the recommended dose is 45 grams but ZW says it's very individual and varies greatly from person to person. I think I can relax in this respect as I am having lots of nuts as well as eggs, milk, meat and fish so I should be OK. after all how much protein can you need to make a tiny little eggie.

I am pretty sure I ovulated on CD 10 again – truly depressing.

Jazzbird, How are you feeling? have you decided on the birth plan? have you been taking any herbs or doing acu during your pregnancy? I've been thinking about herbs again and if you think about it even vitex which is just one herb can mess up your ovulation big time so a mix of herbs surely can have an effect on ovulation? maybe I am just not reacting well on one or two herbs in the mix which is causing me to overproduce FSH and ovulate earlier? also maybe my diagnose is different? I know high FSH means yin deficiency but maybe I have something that looks like it but is totally different that's why I am not responding well? Just thinking out loud cos there must have been a reason why Dr Zhai for example could not diagnose me. she said until all (heat) settles we cant see what's going on.

somedayisnow, was the brown discoloration on the spot that was needled? I think it's pretty unusual to have such reaction to acu unless you have undiagnosed skin condition but I will let jazzbird to comment as she would know better. re spotting I think if you did not have spotting before it's not great but when you are going through acu treatment your body is adjusting so in the next couple of cycles you may get various unusual symptoms like spotting which will hopefully settle once your body adapts. Basically I think it means your body is reacting to treatment which is positive.

Kits, your hcg levels are rising nicely and great news on the scan. It's probably too early for heart beat but hopefully you can see it well on the next scan.

smurfy, sorry about OHSS. best of luck with your frozen cycle

Blythe, how are you doing? Did you O in the end? I am so hoping you will be one of those miracle stories where ladies get a natural BFP after failed IVFs. I am really impressed how your body reacted well to intensive acu/herbs and so hope this can finally make a difference. how's your DH's cycling to work going? I think my Dh is getting addicted to tamaxofen. he seems to think he cant bring himself to have sex unless he is taking it. I personally think it's all in his head but who knows. anyway we asked for a further prescription but in House MD (my most recent authority on all things medical) they mention really terrible side effects of this treatment
 
Thanks for praying for us kits! That is so exciting I had a BFP pee stick dream the other night started AF next day (thanks alot body lol).

I am sure you have heard this one before but try eating some crackers like saltenes before you try to get up. I have heard that low blood sugar contributes to that sick feeling (from a low carb RE) I can't say for sure. I know i felt sick no matter what I did and fruit was on the menu alot. I tried sea bands too, that didn't work either. I have heard about vitamin B6 helping (didn't try that). Don't forget to drink as much water as your body can take without throwing up. One thing I do know is that dehydration will make you super tired.

My friend here at work that had to buy the 2000 donation got BFN. I sure hope it works for them next time, they dont' make enoguh to buy too many more cyles taht is for sure.
 
BRISS I know the clomid is helping my husband TONS he is actually wanting sex up to three times a week as compared to one. He feels great he says (other then the sickness that is going around our house). I think his midsection look slimmer too. I only worry about estrogen getting too high but so far no bad side effects. I ordered him two more months maybe we will go on up to six monhts.
Sorry to hear about the 10 day ovulation. What the heck is going on with your body?
AFM perfect seeming everything hardly any cramps, bright red flow, ovulation around day 15 but still a big FAT negative. It sure would be nice to know what my problem is! Anyway on to another cycle :) I guess you are still waiting on IVF.
 
Briss - I'm sorry you ovulated early again. It must be so frustrating.

With regards to your thoughts on mixing herbs and supplements - I think you are spot on. We have always been advised to advise our patients away from other supplements. This is not only because one supplement or herb might have a negative impact on a condition but also because of the interaction between that mix of herbs and supplements.

I think its very natural to question your diagnosis when you are getting mixed results or negative results. I also understand Dr Zhai's view of clearing heat first. Excess conditions like heat are said to mask underlying deficiencies. However, High FSH, Low AMH, poor ovarian response are all very clear indicators of yin deficiency. I can't think of any other diagnosis that would cause this response. Dr E. is clearing heat and nourishing yin, so I think his diagnosis is spot on. Also, if any woman came to me for treatment for infertility, I would always nourish yin in the first half of the cycle - as this is the treatment protocol for ensuring the ripe development of an egg.

I still think you have to remember that you had your best cycle with Dr. E - on month 2. I know you have gone downhill on month 3 & 4 but you stopped taking herbs on month 3. You've also had some intrusive investigations recently - HSG in particular which I think is an X-Ray so is heat producing.

Yin is notoriously difficult to replenish once depleted. I had to take herbs and have weekly acu for 6 months before I saw a difference in my symptoms. I had a complete inability to sleep properly for 4 years and sore, dry eyes - I nearly crashed my car with sleep deprivation. I really didn't believe in acu at the time, but the doctors wanted me on anti-depressants (I didn't feel depressed) as it was the only treatment they could offer me. I had no other choice, so I continue with acu and herbs. I also religiously followed her restrictive lifestyle instructions - home before 7pm, eat before 7pm, in bed by 10 ready to sleep by 11pm. Yin can only be restored through rest, which is ironic because one of the symptoms of yin deficiency is restlessness!!!

So I really think that 2 months of herbs is not enough to draw any conclusions about Dr. E.

I also think we all get duff (genetically inferior) eggs as we get older. So when we are 21, we might produce 11/12 cycles with good eggs … as we get to over 35 I think it drops. I'm not sure whether acupuncture can influence these eggs or whether acupuncture simply provides the optimal environment for a good egg to develop and implant. We just don't know how it works. So I think you have to allow for variation in your cycles, even with treatment.

The way I see it, is that you need to lower your FSH - and there are no other known treatments for this. If there were other treatments I would say investigate those, but as it stands there aren't - so I would continue with Dr. E for another 6 months & I would probably drop all the other supplements & follow any lifestyle advice he offers you religiously.

I completely understand your urgency - but you need to try and let go and trust in your practitioner. He's a leader in his field and has a very reputable training background and qualifications. All the energy you spend checking up on what he's prescribed or what his diagnosis is, is going to create more stress and interfere with your cycle. I would happily send you a copy of my TTC hypnosis CD - whilst it might not influence conception, I think it definitely pulled me down a gear or two and helped me to relax and trust as I suffer from anxiety and have problems relaxing sometimes.

AFM, I'm fine thanks. Second half of this pregnancy has been wonderful compared to the first half. I haven't taken herbs or acu since I found out I was pregnant. I wish I had now though as my blood has come back very low in iron, despite consistently taking iron supplements. They just aren't as powerful as Chinese blood nourishing herbs. Perhaps I should go and see my old acu who is training in herbs now.

As for the birth plan - not really. I want to try as natural as possible and progress to drugs/epidural if I can't handle it. I just think a birth plan is a recipe for disaster because there are so many factors that can throw it off course. I plan to use natal hypnotherapy to control my anxiety and help me deal with any issues as they arise. I'm still undecided as to whether to try at home first and then transfer. Its just impossible to predict how I will handle it.

Someday - It's difficult for me to explain why you might be spotting on CD 5 - I can only guess that she might have nourished blood if you were blood deficient and this then started up your period. Or perhaps she moved Qi and your uterus wasn't completely emptied on this cycle and that encouraged a final flush of the uterus. But this is all guesswork as I have no idea what your diagnosis is and what she treated … I would ask her though. I'm sure she'd be happy to call you back and explain. As for the brown spot on your shoulder - if she needled this point then it might have caused some bruising - which is very common. I'm not sure its a side effect of acupuncture if it wasn't an area she needled.

Kits - don't worry about the recurrent miscarriage. I'm sure your acu is working on points that will nourish Qi, blood and kidneys. It's impossible not to nourish these points if you are treating infertility or pregnancy. Its just interesting that chinese Medicine views pregnancy and miscarriage as very draining on blood, Qi and kidneys, regardless of when the foetus is lost. In Western terms they don't seem to have the same view.

I truly sympathise with the nausea - I was SO sick from week 7 up until week 24. I started vomiting in week 8 and that went on til about week 14, but I had 24 hour nausea as well right up until week 24 - although it got a lot easier the further into second tri I got. I'm sure everyone's said it to you but it is a sign of strong hormones which is said to indicate a good pregnancy. What worked for me (which might not work for you because I think everyone is different) was:
peanut butter on toast
cereal
bananas
sniff lemons and lime
almonds
hot cross buns slathered in butter
salt and vinegar crisps
cold fruit - mango with lime squeezed over it
avacado
sucking on mints!!
nibbling on digestive biscuits or rich tea

I literally never went more than an hour without eating something. It was just the most horrendous thing - as I was constantly starving but everything made me sick. Eugh! I also tried sea bands, vit B6 but none of that worked for me. I'd give it a go though if I were you, its worth a shot! I also tried acu but that didn't work for me this time round :-(
 
alison, I used to get those dreams a lot, so frustrating you go through the labour and finally get your baby only to wake up to AF… I know what you mean re clomid. I actually asked our urologist if my DH may get more luck with the clomid rather than tamaxofen but he just sent us a prescription for more tamaxofen. Really frustrated with day 10 ovulation and even scared to know what my next cycle will look like. still no news on the funding for our IVF.

Jazzbird, Thank you! I keep forgetting the correct name for this test but it was not HSG in a way they did not check my tubes just uterus and they did not do X rays it was just a scan. also when I had a real HSG with x rays in 2011 it did not affect my ovulation. also my MRI last year did not affect my ovulation. And I had 27,28 days cycles before Dr E's treatment. I do get later O from time to time, my issue was that half of my cycles are 25 days after the lap and that's what I wanted to change (before the lap they were 26 days). It's possible that the only good cycle I had with dr E was just a coincidence?

I have been getting home before 7pm most days in the last 1-2 years. I seriously cut down on hours at work which is terribly damaging to my career but that's just another sacrifice I am prepared to make. I do eat before 7pm actually most days. But there is no way I can be in bed by 10 pm! having said that I do get plenty of rest, just been on holiday. The thing is I am doing more and more positive changes but the outcome of this is the exact opposite - that's what depresses me

It's been 3 months on herbs and this is my 5th cycle with acu. if things were not improving I would be patient but things are getting so terribly worse. I am seriously scared.

I have not been taking my supps last month cos could not bother with them on holiday and when I returned I had this terrible vomiting on Cd 1 that I just could not bring myself to take anything in. I am thinking of going back on supps this week. btw, I showed my list to Dr E and he approved. He actually does not really offer any lifestyle advice cos he says when his patients get to him they all know everything there is to know about lifestyle so he was sure I am doing everything right. I hope I do…
 
Hi Briss - I wish I could give you a cuddle. I understand your fear. It must be scary and when all is said and done - you know your body better than anyone. I guess the one thing that you can remember is that your fsh has not been fixed - it did show signs of improvement and has now gone downhill - at least you know it varies and can move in a good and bad direction.

You are right - your good cycle could be coincidence. It's just that a lot of people dismiss acu when symptoms improve but point the finger when it deteriorates. I'm the first to say to my patients that acu doesn't always work - then I give them a timeframe and tell them what I am hoping will change and when I'm expecting things to improve. When they come back I get them to report back on their symptoms - frequency, intensity etc. has Dr E had this discussion with you?

What is Dr E's response when you tell him about your latest results and early ov? Does he offer an explanation? Does he say - this is not what I expect? Does he give you any other indication that things are moving in the right direction? (Sometimes pulse and tongue tell you the patient is getting better but their symptoms take time to improve? It's so important that he gives you realistic expectations and helps you move on from acu if he feels it is not working.

If you decide not to continue with dr E - what are your next steps/options? Can you go abroad for ivf?

I'm so sorry Briss - you really deserve some good news. Can you speak to Dr E and ask him for his honest opinion. Ask him whether he really feels acu/herbs are improving things for you or whether he feels that it is wasted effort.
 
Jazzbird, cant thank you enough for taking the time to write your thoughts. That's so great that i can get your perspective on things. I have not talked to Dr E yet, I will see him next week and will discuss this but I need to make peace with what's going before I talk to him (or I may scream at him)

My FSH did not really improve. I checked it on my longish cycle and it was OK. I checked it several times during the cycle as it fluctuates so i was choosing the lowest level so i could qualify for the IVF. I did not check it the cycle before I started herbs I do not know what my levels were. the 3rd cycle which was super short my FSH was super high. Probably the highest I've seen. strangely Dr E seemed to think after the longish cycle my FSH should be lower as cd 3 FSH is an indication of the cycle before (I personally do not agree with it but that was his view) but obviously my FSH was much higher and he could not explain it, just thought it's a one off thing. If I am honest I am losing trust in him but frankly I do not think you can explain two super short cycles when the expectation was that it will get better. this looks like it's out of his control. either his treatment is not working (but again why would my cycle get so much worse all of a sudden?) or his treatment is having an opposite effect. I doubt he will see it that way and will probably say we need to carry on. although at the start he said it will take 3 months to see improvement and if there is none there is no point in continuing.

Dr E does not really check my pulse and tongue but we spend 10-20 min at the start talking through my cycle and my concerns. I do find these sessions helpful but I cant accept these terrible changes in my cycle. Deep down I do blame the herbs I think but there is about 10% chance that my body decided to go into decline which is just catastrophic so i do not want to think that. I am so hoping we can still do that stim IVF and if that fails then I guess we could follow Dovkav's approach and do many natural IVFs in Germany until we are successful.
 

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