Chinese Accupuncture

[Briss]

Vonn, that's great that your tubes are fine! your FSH levels are OK. AMH is a bit low but overall not bad, every chance to get pregnant naturally or with assistance.

 

[Briss]

I went to check my progesterone levels, still cant let go of the whole "empty follicles" situation and my levels for 9 PDO were 12.6 ng/ml – these are good levels, definitely ovulatory cycle. why were the follicles empty then? started reading cos I am ready puzzled I was so trusting the whole charting and temp rise thing, what if you can have a normal chart but still no eggs/ovulation? but I came across a very depressing study that says "Empty follicle syndrome (EFS) has been defined as a condition in which no oocytes are retrieved from mature ovarian follicles with apparently normal follicular development and estradiol levels, after COH for an assisted reproductive technology (ART) cycle, despite repeated aspiration and flushing. It is evident from a review of literature that …. about 67% of all cases are due to human error…" I think I can see now why they did not charge for the cycle…

 

[Vonn]

Briss--I'm not following exactly. So EFS is a real condition, but two-thirds of the time finding an empty follicle is not caused by EFS but instead by human error during the retrieval? If I have this right, how does it make you feel about possibly going back to that clinic?

 

[Briss]

i think it's not a condition as such but it happens and often it just happens once. sometimes it;s a true issue i.e. no egg but it seems like more often it's an error of stim protocol, trigger's fail (apparently it can get processed by your liver too quickly and not enough time for the egg maturity to take place) or simply a failure to retrieve. I am still not sure it was the case, I am more inclined to think I ovulated just before the procedure. I just can't understand how you can have good progesterone levels without an actual egg. can you ovulate an empty follicle/cyst with all the relevant hormones in place?

re the clinic, I am more comfortable with this Czech clinic at the moment - I hope with endometaci and early EC we can get the egg next time.

our trip to the Munich clinic is going to cost a lot of money and it's even before they accepted us for IVf cycle so i am not happy about it and they do not seem to deal via email except for administrative things. but then again they may turn out to be a brilliant clinic. somebody told me they are considered to be the best clinic in Europe. a bit grand if you ask me

 

[Vonn]

Briss--That's a tough call. It's really hard at this point, though, to walk away and not leave any stone unturned. If you have the money and the time to try Munich, seems like it's worth a shot. Also, interesting to see how it all works in another country.

AFM--I went in for a CD 10 ultrasound today. Was fulling expecting to hear that my lining is scanty, follicle not very big, etc. Instead, I was told my lining looks "great," and that I have a "beautiful" follicle; actually, I have two follicles developing nicely in the same ovary. I was stunned!

The dr wants me to have another scan tomorrow and if the follicle(s) is where they think it will be, I will trigger with ovidel tomorrow night for a Friday am ovulation. That would be CD 13 ov. Last month I ov-ed on CD 19 and before that CD 17 and CD 15.

Maybe my problem is that my body hasn't been releasing the egg when it's ready & by the time I do ovulate the egg isn't good anymore. Anyone ever heard of this happening? I'm trying not to get ahead of myself, but I feel so hopeful right now.

 

[nobump]

Briss they have always said that at ec that not all follicles will have eggs but that was with a medicatex cycle. Not sure what happens on a natural cycle.

Vonn good luck x

 

[Briss]

nobump, that's the thing I can understand how you can have empty follicles on a medicated cycle, some may just grow cos of all the extra hormones even when they do not have an egg inside. in a natural cycle all hormones are mine, nothing extra and the largest follicles are supposed to contain the best eggs that cycle cos the body has the mechanism to choose which follicles to grow to ovulation and which to stop. but even then, suppose the largest follicle is empty (which also means that all other follicles growing that cycle are empty as well), why would the body still go through the hormonal change: oestrogen, LH and then progesterone? would a follicle which is in fact a cyst if it does not have an egg still produce progesterone because it was artificially emptied during EC? These are the questions I cant find answers to and I feel I need to understand this (I hate having gaps in my understanding of this process). unless there is something that I am missing I think what happened was either (i) my eggs ovulated before EC, or (ii) they failed to get the eggs out. I just cant get around the empty follicle scenario, I do not understand how this works.

Vonn, I am very lucky that we have the money to go to Europe (maybe "lucky" is not the right word, it comes from our savings for a house but children are far more important). Great news on your scan! Do ask them how many mm were your follicles and the lining, is the lining triple layer? the follicles are usually over 18 mm when they trigger. the lining should be above 8 mm. Do they also check your bloods? it's important to know your estrogen levels cos you could indirectly know the quality of your eggs. e.g. if estrogen is very low the egg may not be great and vice versa. did they do Doppler to see the blood flow to the follicle? ask also how many smaller follicles are there on both ovaries (it's important to know your antral follicle count if you decide to do IVF). I'd definitely ask them about a possible delay in your egg release but every cycle is different so maybe this cycle you just going to ovulate earlier than before?

Blythe, how are you? have you started your Czech adventure? our Brno trip was so easy to arrange compared to the Munich trip, I booked Ryanair flight as well but did not realise what they call Munich West is actually a totally different town about 2.5 hours away from Munich. it's a good thing we decided to go there for weekend otherwise It would be really hard to make it to the appointment and back in one day.

 

[Blythe]

Briss - I think they missed your eggs by a couple of hours.

I scanned all my paperwork and did a summary of my ivf and sent to gennet last night so hope to go to their london offices pre christmas to do first consult, new bloods etc.

DH has been drinking like a fish and is soon to be in between jobs so times have been better.

I am avoiding a friend at work who I'm sure is about to announce pregnancy.

But on a positive note I brought a sprouter off amazon and successfully sprouted some quina. All working towards my high vibration living!!!

 

[alison29]

That sounds really promising Vonn! I am excited for you..

Blythe I am really proud of you for giving it your all the high vibrational living. I need to meditate more (at all have not done in ages). I feel so much better when i eat more vegtables and drink tons of water. Now my kids need some work there. My dh admitted to inlaws that my daughter has been eating a poptart for breakfast. Talk about a dead food. When my SIL chimed in "her kids don't even know what a pop tart is" I said all that cereal and bread most (likely her family) eat for breakfast is just crap! turns to simple sugar. A slice of bread or bowl of carbs with milk isn't that much better then a pop tart : ) You may as well just dump some butter on a bowl of sugar ha! Don't even get me started on cow's milk as a "health" food lol.

 

[alison29]

I am really excited about you guy's up coming IVF cycles!

 

[Briss]

I am seriously impressed with the whole sprouting quinoa thing! Wow! I had to look it up actually, some advanced stuff! My mum used to do that, after reading The Miracle Of Fasting by Paul Bragg. It looked very strange. Tell me more, I so want to be inspired. was looking at myself last night in total disgust – the IVF weight is just terrifying, my legs are so big I cant even wear hold ups anymore cos they simply roll down my legs and do not stay up. got myself tights (size M!). Since September I've been just wearing the same 3 things to work, nothing else fits. I know I complain a lot about my weight but I just cant find it in me to diet hard as I did before and I know that small sacrifices just not going to make any difference. and I need to focus on my egg quality and this means eating well. I understand all that but it's just so frustrating to be this heavy. this is truly the fattest I've ever been in my life and I really hate it.

I did not know you have to go through first consult, new bloods etc but it probably makes sense in stim IVF cos they need to know what they're dealing with and chose the right protocol. would your DH need to do SA as well? might be a good idea to know what's going on with all the drinking. you might be surprised actually. I am thinking your DH's sperm is still fine for IVF but would still insist on split IVF/ICSI fertilisation. may even ask for PICSI/IMSI to deal with the possible side effects of his recent drinking.

I am avoiding practically everyon cos face it – everyone is pregnant or about to be.

I am trying to get my head around the train system in Germany. I feel like it requires a degree… while DH is checking out local breweries

 

[Briss]

Alison, that " dumping some butter on a bowl of sugar " comment made me laugh! but so true. I sometimes wonder at people's "healthy" choices. I am so used to seeing food as fat (good or bad), sugar, protein etc rather than the actual food

 

[Blythe]

I think back to my IVF diet and i was having daily avocados [good] and daily whey protein shakes [not good] and stuffing myself with protein bars [really not good] - all really processed and i would not do that again.

I think i have already mentioned this but I have been making these smoothies with my nutriblast - around 3/4 times per week:

hemp milk
coconut oil
chia seeds
berries
almond butter
gogi berries

and it is delicious - good fats and good proteins and good for eggs.

This is the link to a site with loads of fab recipes on it - she is a bit irritating really but the kale salad is really filling and great for those eggs! I have been making a massive one in the evenings and eating it almost every night for last couple of weeks and have lost 7lbs. I have cut out post meal snacking in evenings and been taking the stairs too but if i keep this up i could be down another 4/5 lbs by xmas and maybe down to my goal weight by end of Jan allowing for xmas binging.

https://deliciouslyella.com/recipe/video-how-to-make-the-perfect-kale-salad/

I have been sticking my sprouting quinoa on top - this salad is delicious and so much in there is great for fertility and eggs.

The sprouter i brought is this one:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/A-Vogel-Bi...UTF8&qid=1417633007&sr=8-4&keywords=sprouters

The sprouter is cheap and looks quite cool in the corner. It is much better quality when you take it out of the box than it looks on that shot. I have ordered some other stuff to sprout from ebay so looking forward to them turning up.

I soaked my quinoa for about half a day in water then drained and rinsed about 3 times over next 2 days and dada - super healthy sprouts.


Briss - what do you think is essential to incorporate into diet when prepping for IVF?

last night i was lying in bed and went onto a website where it answers your questions with simple yes or no. I asked will i get pregnant - YES - am i pregnant - YES

am i completely desperate for coming on this arsehole site looking for hope - YES

Didn't ask the last one but actually did with the first two - how very sad!!


Vonn - really positive news from your scan - what a great relief to hear such good news

Are you doing IUI or having a monitored cycle with trigger?

Alison - i would love to meditate properly as i know it would only be a great great thing for me. I have been listening to the circle and bloom meditations every night before bed but all i can focus on is DH's snoring - it drives me mad!! Sometimes i do nod off and then awaken when the session is coming to an end - i do hope some of it is soaking in.

 

[alison29]

I have asked those sites too..Thanks for the recipes and the inspiration to quit snacking late night! ITs a habit that has crept back into my routine.

 

[Briss]

I had a follow up appointment with a consultant today and he actually said that follicles go through the process of luteinisation after egg collection so they will be releasing progesterone even if there were no eggs. basically my progesterone test was a waste of money – apparently in the context of IVf it does not tell you anything about ovulation/eggs. But he did say my estrogen levels and follicle size are good indicators of egg quality so as you say there most likely was at least one egg that got away. he also confirmed it's safe to do EC every month and my bleeding was most likely a result of puncturing a blood vessel. It does look like my right ovary is giving up though.

ladies, I actually think you are brave to go to these websites where they answer your questions. It means you are really positive and hopeful. I am just simply scared, I can only accept one answer. I am still recovering from the shock of the needle test. cant do this to myself.

My DH loves goji berries! they are supposed to improve sperm as well but I do not see much improvement. anyway it's all good stuff.

That berry smoothie sounds delicious! Thanks for the link – am definitely going to explore it. I am not ready for sprouting yet, it looks like a lot of work? I couldn't even manage regular smoothies/juicing.

I do not do anything special for IVF diet. I used to think protein was really import for eggs but I recently re-read ZW's book and she actually says it's not that great to be dramatically increasing your protein intake – basically balance is key. I just try to cut all crappy foods and limit sugar. apart from coffee, chocolate and cake I generally eat well anyway (not that it helps me lose any weight). we do not eat out that often and I never buy pre-cooked meals or takeaways, so whatever I cook is made from scratch and I watch all the ingredients carefully. having said that, fruit/veg have most pesticides so it's really hard to eat healthy whatever you do. I do wash them thoroughly but I am sure some traces of pesticides still there in the skin. buying everything organic is not really an option and even then there is no guarantee.

I loved that kale salad!! Dh was into kale smoothies at one point but he hated it being so hard to chew. I am going to try to massage it as she recommends in your video. I cannot live without pomegranate! I eat it all the time, always have, it's my favourite food (after chocolate and coffee!), maybe it indicates mild anaemia so I am craving iron rich foods like pomegranate.

I eat lots of avocadoes, it really helps to swallow the greens. half of my evening salad is just different types of greens mixed with avocadoes with little bit of olive oil and plenty of squeezed lemon juice – this is like my must have base of any salad and then I just add whatever veg I have in the fridge usually tomatoes, cucumbers, radishes, peppers etc. and add some cheese like feta or mozzarella or salmon. or when it's cold I make steamed cauliflower for dinner with some fish or grain/milk dishes.

for lunch I take a piece of lean meat/fish in our canteen and either veggies from our salad bar (nothing with sauce) or cooked carrots or courgettes. when I feel like I have nothing to lose I can sink really low and eat pasta or potatoes

porridge with chai and other seeds for breakfast (+ coffee) or eggs

nuts/ dried fruit/ lots of all kinds of fruit as snacks throughout the day

+ obviously chocolate and lots of herb teas like nettles, mate, raspberry, red clover etc. I never drink water or anything cold except for freshly squeezed juices I occasionally make myself at home

 

[Briss]

blythe, are you making your own tahini and almond milk?

 

[alison29]

Wow you eat really healthy briss..

 

[Briss]

Blythe, I am loving that website! I already ordered my new nut-milk bag am going to start making almond milk at home. also got sesame seeds for home made tahini

 

[Blythe]

Briss. That is fab

Almond milk in the supermarket is about 2/3% almond and lots just use rice. Rice is not a high vibration food so making your own is excellent.

 

[Blythe]

I brought this and hoping it will turn up this weekend:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/15...061529?qid=1417801960&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SY200_QL40