Could I have your opinions please :)

[BabyHaines]

Morning all,

I just wondered if a few of you could share your experiences with me. Vici and I are the chair of a group in our area that helps new mums & mums to be etc. We are in the process of getting some volunteers trained up to become breastfeeding supporters, and I've read so many times that so many women on here wanted/tried to BF but couldn't.
Therefore, I wondered whether you could shed some light on your own experiences, so we can see where we may be able to help? I combination fed to begin with, because my milk was so slow coming in (12 days aftery c-section under GA....!!) but I managed to (somehow) carry on with the BF and George is now exclusively BF. I know for me, more suport is needed in hospital.
If you had've had someone that could come to your house & spend time helping you through, would you've been more likely to continue do you think?

**Note: this is NOT to be turned into a BF v FF debate!! We are trying to help, so constructive comments only please!
If this gets out of hand, I will ask the mods to close the thread.**

Thanks for your help xxxx

 

[OmarsMum]

I had a traumatic emergency CS. Omar only latched on after he was born for 3 feeds. Then the next day he refused to latch on. They starved my baby for 18 hrs to force him to latch on. A bfing consultant was sent to me to help, but after 2 hrs she gave up. I requested formula as my baby was staving, but they refused to give me any. Then he became poorly & started to develop jaundice because of the lack of feeding. After a long battle they agreed to give him formula but frm a syringe. I tried to express at the hospital but there was no milk. When we went home after 3 days, I started to give him bottles & tried to express but no success. When he finally latched on after 10 days he kept sucking & used me as a pacifier, then after 2-3 hrs of sucking he started to scream for food. I think my milk dried up because of the stress & my birth experience.

eda: The whole experience put me off bfing, as I only wanted my baby to be fed formula or BM. At the hospital when I asked for formula they looked me as if I wanted to poison my baby.

 

[bubbles123]

My baby had a severe tongue tie. Nobody in the hospital noticed for three days. They just grabbed my boobs and tried to shove it in his mouth to which he just screamed and choked. All my notes say BF'ing well but he couldn't latch and I told them this over and over. He could not latch, just chewed on my nipples. Everyone just said 'you're doing really well, just carry on'! finally a lady from Little Angels came, confirmed the TT and said he couldn't latch properly and I should express every 3 hours 24/7 and feed with a cup but not to give him any formula even though I could only express an oz or 2 at a time.. I did this best I could, got colostrum and some BM in him. However, I also had an iron level of 7, passed out when I stood up and was hooked up to a blood transfusion most of the time and found it extremely hard even to pick my baby up let alone express enough milk as I was so exhausted. I gave a few bottles of formula at the hospital as I could express so little and I just wanted him to have more milk and sleep rather than scream with hunger as he was doing. To cut a long story short we then waited 6 weeks for a referral to get his TT snipped on the NHS but despite many phone calls it appears they lost our referral. I eventually found a private doctor at a Bupa hospital who agreed to snip it for £150. He also did TT snips on the NHS and told us that the average NHS wait (when they don't loose your referral!) is 3 - 4 weeks by which time most people have given up with BF'ing. By this time my son had been on bottles for 6 weeks (I expressed and topped up with formula). I tried him on the breast straight after the snip but he didn't seem to even root any more - he just screamed. He continued to scream whenever I put him near my breast for several days after. After about a week of this I stopped expressing as it was just too exhausting and I was fed up of fighting with him and trying to get him to take my breast. So we went to FF'ing only.
So, my advice would be - check all babies for TT immediately at birth. It's an incredibly simple thing to sort out, there is absolutely no need for an ENT consultant to have to do it, a midwife could easily do the procedure. Make sure all TT's are snipped within 24 hours of birth. If that had happened to me then it all may have been different X

Edit: Someone coming to my house wouldn't have really helped me - having the TT snipped would have!

 

[BabyHaines]

Thanks ladies. It's interesting to hear your experiences. I know from first hand experience, just how difficult BF'ing can be (especially after a traumatic birth), and bubbles - it sounded like you had a tough time with the TT

The TT, is an interesting one. I am on the MSLC at my local hospital, so will ask why babies aren't automatically checked for this at birth. Like you say, it would solve a lot of issues....

I hope to get a really broad idea of peoples issues, so that we can maybe start to improve things for everyone xxxx

 

[Kte]

Mine was a combination of things at the hospital. There was no advice and support what-so-ever. They just asked, ticked a form and then when on their way.

I breastfed for her first few meals and they seemed to go okay. By night time though she was still hungry and I struggled to get her to latch on properly and my nipples became sore. I kept on trying but she was still hungry. I had come to try another feed and as I took off my breast pads I just felt 'rip'. My nipples had stuck to the pads and there was lots of blood. As daft as it sounds I think there needs to be more information on breast care as well, I had the pads and creams etc I just didn't know if I was using them right! My nipples then kind of scabbed over so it was impossible to BF with them like that. It took me ages to get someone to let me have a formula bottle but she was hungry and there was no way I could of fed her, as soon as she had the bottle she was so much happier. The next day, I was checked out at lunch time, I was told that I would of struggled BF as I had lost a lot of blood and this would affect my supply . . . so if I had of known maybe I could of planned my tactics a bit better.

I ended up having to let my nipples heal for a few days and then when my milk came in a few days later, express which I did sucessfully for a while. I tried to get LO to BF again but she preferred a teat by then. So I mainly combi fed. After a few weeks my milk started to dry up, so then I just decided to go onto formula.

 

[Laucu]

I agree on the lack of support at the hospital.

I gave birth at Queen Charlotte's birth centre in London, and had a lovely experience there. The staff took their time and gave me lots of advice. HOWEVER. The day after we got home, we were readmitted to the hospital and I had to go to the regular ward rather than the birth centre. The staff there gave me nothing but confusing and conflicting 'advice'. One midwife told me I should feed Emma every 4-6 hours (WAAAAAAY to long for a newborn BF baby), and another looked shocked when I told her Emma fed for 45 minutes on each breast (This is NORMAL for a 1 day old baby surely?!). Oh but this tops it - when my husband asked for help, the reply from the midwife was 'it's your baby'. Nice touch.

To me, it seems like the NHS love pushing the idea that 'breast is best' but do nothing to back it up and actually support new mums. Except give out that crappy DVD in antenatal classes, of course.

If it wasn't for the internet, where I could get advice from real experienced mums, I would not have had the confidence to persevere and BF. I did stop at 3 months though, because I felt like it was absolutely exhausting me, and I needed my husband to take over and help me out. I didn't get on very well with expressing. No regrets though - Emma is a happy healthy little bundle of loveliness and that is all that matters!

 

[bubbles123]

babyhaines - I think one thing that is really important too is BF training ante natally. Before I had my son I had never seen a woman BF'ing in real life before. I went to all of my ante natal classes but no real info was given about the reality of BF'ing. I was told if it hurt you were doing it wrong (really not helpful) whilst cluster feeding and growth spurts were not even mentioned meaning many women give up because they honestly believe that they have no milk when baby wants to feed for hours on end. So maybe your BF supporters could also run ante natal classes where women could ask nursing mothers questions which they can honestly answer so women are more aware of the reality of BF'ing and how to deal with any potential problems. Sometimes waiting until post natally is too late as by then women are just too exhausted to carry on.

 

[BabyHaines]

Again, thanks for your responses

bubbles - you've absolutely hit the nail on the head!! I was adamant I would BF, but didn't realise just how difficult I would find it. I cried pretty much every time I tried to feed him and was convinced I was starving him
As a group, we are trying to introduce active birth ante-natal lessons too, so maybe that would work well xxxx

 

[Hen]

I had my LO at home, and as a result had pretty much no support whatsoever. When I did ask for help because I was in so much pain the midwives basically shrugged their shoulders and said that everything looks ok, so just keep trying. Not exactly what I wanted to hear!

I think building more realistic expectations would be valuable, there's this attitude that breast is best and it's totally natural and wonderful. The reality is that most women experience some degree of pain when feeding and knowing that this is normal and the reasons why would be really helpful. It turned out that there was a breastfeeding support group locally, but we weren't told about it at antenatal, nor did the midwifes tell me about it until I was at breaking point. By then it was too late.

I think bubbles is right, more information and support BEFORE the baby is born would be great, and knowing where to get help in the very early days. It might be worth looking at the issue of the guilt associated with giving up breastfeeding, as I'm sure every mother who has tried it and switched to bottles has felt some degree of guilt for their decision. that guilt made me keep feeding not because I wanted to but because I felt I had to, and has contributed quite a bit to the PND I have been suffering from. I know it's probably not something you want to promote, but from talking to people who have tried breastfeeding and then moved to FF it is a big issue.

Having someone come to the house on a regular basis to make sure that we were developing the correct habits would hae been fantastic, but it would have to be daily, at least in the beginning, I think.

 

[Eala]

For me, more personalised information antenatally. From my first midwife appointment at 6 weeks, I had breastfeeding information pushed at me, but it was the same thing over and over. Just the "breast is best, breast is best, breast is best" message.

It was in my notes that I had been sexually abused as a child. I was very open with every midwife. Not ONE of them suggested that this could cause any problems with BF'ing. I was too naive (or optomistic?) to think that it could affect my ability to BF. But it did.

I had no support. The midwife who attended to me during my (difficult and assisted) birth refused to come and help me latch LO on, because she was writing up her notes. My baby wasn't fed until 3 hours after her birth. The midwives were so short-staffed, that when I buzzed to ask for help latching her on (baby had a very bad latch), I more often had an HCA saying "What do you want help for?!". I didn't feel that had the chance to talk to any midwife about how I was feeling emotionally about feeding my baby. The only time they talked to me for any length of time was to try and persuade me to stay (when I wanted to leave due to not having slept for more than 48 hours). At that point they kept going on about how I would likely "fail" at breastfeeding if I left.

I had a breastfeeding peer supporter come with my community midwife a few days after I got out of hospital. The midwife brought her into my home with no invitation and no explanation of who she was. This girl then just about exploded when I said that we'd given my LO a bottle of formula that morning, as she just wouldn't feed from my hugely engorged boobs - she just bounced off. LO had been screaming hungry, I was hyperventilating, panicking and crying, and my husband was crying. Formula hadn't seemed so bad a choice.

That person spent the best part of 3 hours sat in my living room, trying to get LO to feed. All my baby wanted to do was sleep. But she kept tickling baby's feet, and pinching her legs to make her wake up. Whenever LO opened her eyes, she had me hand-expressing milk into baby's mouth to try and get her to feed. I was in emotional and physical hell the entire time. Just before the girl left, her comment was that if baby hadn't fed by X time, I should take her to A&E because obviously something was wrong. I finally made the gut-wrenching decision to stop BF'ing a few days later. I then felt so guilty that I tried to re-lactate, was pumping almost constantly (when I could) to give LO EBM. I couldn't get her to latch on at all, she wasn't interested, and my milk dried up. To this day I live with the guilt.

Sorry, I realise that is a long (and very personalised) story... The point I'm trying to make is that I feel my situation went this way for 2 reasons:

(1) Lack of education of midwives in dealing with sexual abuse survivors. Statistics are that 1 in 3 women will have been abused or raped at some point in their lives. If someone is forthcoming about the fact that they were abused, something needs to be said to prepare these women for the fact that giving birth and BF'ing can cause a lot of these issues to rear their head, even if they have been "dealt with".

(2) Lack of staff / support post-natally. Not really sure what can be done about this other than getting rid of layers of middle management in the NHS, and actually hiring more midwives and/or breastfeeding support workers.

Phew, sorry for the huge reply

 

[BabyHaines]

This is such a huge help ladies. By you taking the time to tell me your experiences, I hope that we can improve things for others.

Eala - you are incredibly brave. The fact that you could talk openly about what you'd been through was amazing, I'm just so sorry they didn't listen to you
Your post has made me all teary, but at the same time, it's made me even more eager to help.

xxxx

 

[WW1]

Rebecca was born by c section. She was very drowsy when born and didn't latch at all. She also refused to feed from a syringe or cup at first (the mws refused to give a bottle). That night, the docs were concerned so she was in SCBU for 48 hrs and given a feeding tube.

Due to a communication error, SCBU were told I was FF my LO so they were trying her with formula and a bottle (then what she didn't drink went down the feeding tube). At the time, I was so worried about her not feeding that I said I didn't care as long as she was getting food of some description.

I was expressing colostrum and then syringing it to my LO whilst in SCBU. I also continued expressing for a month after and combine fed until my milk dried up.

The mw were extremely variable. One was wonderful and sat for hours helping me to hand express colostrum. However, when Rebecca returned to the main ward I said I wanted to try to get her to latch. The mws were really unsympathetic. Rebecca was screaming for food, I was paranoid about her not feeding (for obvious reasons) and the mw said "I'm a bit busy, she can wait for 1/2 hr and I'll come back as soon as I can!" At that point I burst into tears and returned Rebecca to the bottle. By the time I finally got someone to support me with latching, Rebecca didn't want to know.

I know my situation isn't usual (with Rebecca going to SCBU etc) but it didn't make BFing easier at all. The words the mws said promoted BFing but the actions didn't always do so.

I think what your doing is really good, BabyHaines. I thought pre birth that I wouldn't be bothered if I couldn't BF but I was so upset and guilty. Some positive support for mums to BF if they want to would be fantastic. Also, some reassurance and support for those who try and can't would be beneficial.

 

[Peej20]

Hi, I'm struggling with this right now. My baby is 6 days old and was born by emergency c-section. In the recovery room they tried to get him to latch on but he wasn't getting anywhere as we were both so drowsy and so they said that he would need formula. At the time I just wanted him to be happy and fed. It would have been good to be told that we could perhaps have requested to express instead as it seems that now the baby is on the formula he is not interested in changing. As he was born on a Friday I didn't get to see the breast feeding support worker as she had already finished for the day by the time I got to the ward and then she did not work the weekend at the hospital. The only support I got there was to try him on the breast before each feed. So I did this on my own or with my partner each time but we did what we could and just got nowhere. So finally today the BF support worker has come round and again we have tried and he just screams at my breast and this is really hard for me to sit with him just screaming and getting more and more frustrated. She has recommended expressing but this is the first time this has been suggested to me, I didn't realise before that this would be ok. So, sorry for the rant but really all I wanted to add was that expressing when latching isn't working needs to be suggested alongside the formula.

 

[Windmills]

More help in hospital, and better advice. I was told I wouldn't be able to BF Daisy forlong because she was so big (9lbs 9oz born) and therefore there was no point bothering to try since it's pointless to do it for less than 16 weeks. I said I wanted to try anyway and the mw basically latched her on and walked out..

 

[kirmal12]

I had a traumatic induced labour which ended in a c section. During the labour i had pethidine, a epidural and gas & Air for 12 hours solid and nothing worked. LO became distressed and i screamed for a c section. After the birth i was out of it and when i did start coming round i was shaking violently so i couldn't even hold LO never mind feed him. When the shakes died down i put him to my breast and he gave a half hearted suck and gave up. When i got to the ward he needed a heal prick test to check his blood sugar levels (because i had GD) and he needed formula straight away as his levels were really low. They did use a tiny cup though. I kept trying to feed him when i was awake and when he was but he was having none of it, he just wanted to sleep. Next day (still in hospital) when i was feeling better and the meds had left his system we tried again. He was still the same just not sucking at all, so he needed something so i opted to give him formula while still trying to BF.

I tried again when we got home in a quieter environment and with the midwives help, again he just wasn't sucking. His latch was fine so that wasn't the issue. I gave up and decided to formula feed and he was the same with bottles, he was on size 2 teats by 3 weeks old so the milk would just drop into his mouth, he didn't have to suck much.

The midwives and HV's both helped me as much as they could but they couldn't get him to suck, just a little lazy so and so i think!!

 

[BabyHaines]

Thanks girls xxxx

Oh Peej20,

Firstly, take a deep breath and don't panic. lo is feeding & that is what's important.
It is possible to move lo back to the breast, but you will need to persevere.
It's worth continuing to express and carry on putting lo to the breast. Insist that you MUST get help. Tell the hospital you need support.

Recovery from a c-section can make you feel drained, add to that the rollercoaster of emotions you're probably experiencing & then the lack of support & it's no wonder you're having a tough time.
You could try expressing & giving lo as much of your milk as you can.
When you put lo to the breast, put a littleof your expressed milk around your nipple so lo cam smell it too.

Good luck. If you get chance, post back and tell me where in the country you are and I'll see if I can recommend a group or similar in your area.

But most importantly, congratulations!! and enjoy

PM me if you need anything xxxx

 

[shayandbump]

I had a traumatic birth with Amy so after hours of continually trying to get her to latch on (whilst we were still in hospital) Midwives coming & tugging at my boobs every couple of hours & LO becoming increasingly distressed because she wasn't getting any food I ended up in uncontrollable tears and decided to FF.

I intended to try BF again when I got home but because I was on very high doses of pain killers my MW discouraged me, suggesting I express milk (but not give it to LO) to keep my milk supply until I came off the medication. Shortly after that I was diagnosed with PND & decided not to BF (effects of the medication on LO).

We've got on very well with FF &, although originally I felt like a complete failure of a mother, I'm glad we went this route. It's right for our family.


I don't think that any additional support with BF would have helped us, as I made the decision not to BF due to the medication I was on. However, I think it would've helped me come to terms with not BF a lot easier if the MW's at the Hospital hadn't been so horrid to me after I asked for a bottle of formula. They basically threw the thing at me, gave me a dirty look & walked off. They offered no support on how to sterilise bottles & make up feeds correctly which I think they really should've. I understand that breastmilk is the best thing your baby can ever get & they want to encourage people to BF, but to ignore people who decide to FF isn't fair on the mother or LO.

 

[Jane1972]

I have read this thread before & not felt able to answer it because I have felt such a failure.
I just wish there was some help before birth & more contact after, my LO was not latching on,on day 3 the midwife was surprised that I had left hospital without them checking I was doing it right but offered no real support. I then got mastitis(sp) & used that as an excuse. Still blame myself for not seeking more help but think that it was best after all for me & my family but wish that I am not judged on this choice.
I think what you are doing is fantasic & wish you lots success. xx

 

[blahblahblah]

I had a 72 hour labour which ended in a ventouse delivery, plus a doctor poking around in me 8 hours after to find swabs they'd left inside me. It's an understatement to say that I was on another planet afterwards, I was completely dazed and confused and in a lot of pain.

I breastfed throughout the time I was in hospital and went home 1 1/2 days after the birth. I thought things were going well - at my antenatal class they told us the usual " if it hurts you're doing it wrong", but that it is usually uncomfortable to begin with - and that's all it was. A midwife did spend some time taking him on and off (which did hurt!) but I didn't know why, and after a little while she just said "there" and left, it didn't register what she was doing, and she didn't tell me anything else about it. As I mentioned, I was in a complete daze and it didn't occur to me that there was anything behind it.

The day after I came home (a sunday) it started to hurt, but the hospital had told me they didn't think the midwife would be able to see me until monday. By late sunday night I couldn't handle it anymore, and called my sister in tears for help. She brought me her spare bottles and some formula to get through the night. I kept trying for the next couple of days after that, but my nipples were bleeding and I couldn't work out how to latch him on properly. It was agony taking him on and off, and I had to do it time and time again with no idea if I'd got it right or not - it hurt nomatter what I did. After the fourth day of trying I admitted defeat and stopped trying. Oh, and I forgot to mention that my midwife gave me a DVD about breastfeeding, 4 days AFTER I gave up!

What I really needed was some proper 'training' and instructions BEFORE giving birth, with real mums, and perhaps even ones that can get their own babies and show you what a correct latch looks like. I also needed someone to be a bit more matter of fact about the problems in hospital. The midwife there knew things were wrong - I found later that she'd written it in my notes, but because I wasn't complaining they just left me to it! I also needed more information and to know that there was support available 24/7, because we all know that things are always worse in the night. I just wish my LO had decided to make his entrance on a different day of the week!

 

[Aidan's Mummy]

For me I wanted to breastfeed so much. I had my heart set on it. When Aidan was finally in my amrs the urge to let him feed was amazing and a lovely student MW helped me get him latched on. She told me when I go onto the ward just rimgthe bell for assitance and someone will be with me and show me what to do

So I get taken down to the postnatal ward. Aidan wakes up and begins to cry. I try to get him latched on (how the MW upstairs had shown me) but I really didnt understand what I was doing or how to do it. So I rang the bell. A lady came in and asked the problem. I said he needed feeding and I didn't know how to do it. The reply I got was "Just feed him". And she walked away. Now I don't knwo if it had anything to do with my age but she really didn't seem that interested inhelping me. (I was 17). A MW came back hours later and attempted to help me. By this time Aidan was screaming and I was close to tears. So she advised we left it. When I left the hospital I tried expressing. MY mw came and when I told her I was expressing and not from breast I got "Breast is best, and even better form breast" But no attempt was made to help me. So in the end I switched to formula as I couldn't keep up with Aidan's demand

I think someone coming from a local organistaion and helping me would have made me continue as I would have felt supported. And not a young girl who was just a nuisance
xx