feeling sad my baby won't have the so called 'virgin gut'....

[roc]

well as title says really.. When Dylan was born, i was in a lot of pain as i'd had spd, and then they'd done the manouvers for shoulder dystocia-not a good thing for spd!
So i was kinda out of it , as i also hadn't had any pain relief, and didn't ask to feed him straight away, i thought the MW would help me, so he wasn't fed within the first hour, i'm not sure if it made any differance, but he then came down with an infection, and had to go to nicu, as his breathing wasn't good, so they fed him formula through a tube down his throat, then i wanted him cup fed at least afterwards but he wouldn't take it for some of the nurses-strange, i feel they just didn't put in the effort required, but anyhow, i was expressing and nothing was coming after the first day, and i fed him twice myself before they took him, but i've just found out about the virgin gut thing and i'm so sad i couldn't do that for my baby, especially as i have a cows milk intolerance.

Really i'm asking if anyone knows much about this, and also for a bit of reassurance as i feel so bad about the start i had with him, i've fed him myself since, apart from 1 formula feed a couple weeks ago, which his dad gave him...

Thanks for reading.

 

[jess_smurf]

i not sure about this but i struggled feeding after a section because she kept falling asleep and she ended up hyperglycemic and jandice and in scbu for 2 days with ebm and formula top ups and we ditched the formula after 24 hrs

dont get yourself down about it x

 

[razorcakes]

Yeah, you shouldn't feel bad, you are doing what you know is best now, he is sure to get all the benefits. I also had to feed Skye a little formula early on, but continued as normal after. They even gave her formula in hospital without my knowledge instead of colostrum, but she has never been ill yet. And I am just happy that now I am still bf'ing her even though no one I know has and the hospital nurses thought I wouldn't continue after they made it so difficult for me. I've seen that article and I think it's picking nutshells. Why make people feel bad who obviously prominantly breastfeed.. made me feel bad a while back.

 

[freckleonear]

Don't worry too much about him not having a virgin gut. The good news is that after 2-4 weeks of exclusive breastfeeding his gut flora will return to a normal healthy state and of course he will still get many other benefits from breastmilk.

 

[ellie]

I really worrid about this too, we had a similair situation (though I was knocked out for an emergency section) he had breathing problems after birth. he had exclusive formula for the firszt week (they started him on it while I was still out from the section ) I still feel bad about it and worried a LOT earlier on. But we then EBF until he was 6 months and I plan to continue as long as possible to give him as much benefit as I possibly can, as I feel he needs more becuase he missed out at first.
I was reassured by the stats quoted above, if you can get to EBF and contineu that as long as possible, their gut flora will be as healthy as if they were always BF. HTH and I hope the worry subsides for you, but it might take time

 

[MelanieAnn]

I completely understand feeling sad about this.

The more I read, the more I learn, the more important the virgin gut seems to be. I really don't want to sound smug mummy. But I think it highlights the importance of lactivism. When mums are pregnant, they often adopt a take-it-or-leave-it attitude to breastfeeding. And it's so, so hard to explain why this attitude just may not help. I know how obnoxious pro-breastfeeding campaigners can sound to expectant mums..... but there's a reason for it.

Some of the most ardent lactivists are ladies who themselves formula fed their first children.

Melanie

 

[roc]

I completely understand feeling sad about this.

The more I read, the more I learn, the more important the virgin gut seems to be. I really don't want to sound smug mummy. But I think it highlights the importance of lactivism. When mums are pregnant, they often adopt a take-it-or-leave-it attitude to breastfeeding. And it's so, so hard to explain why this attitude just may not help. I know how obnoxious pro-breastfeeding campaigners can sound to expectant mums..... but there's a reason for it.

Some of the most ardent lactivists are ladies who themselves formula fed their first children.

Melanie

I knew all this when i was pregnant, i never wanted any formula even near my baby, it was out of my hands though, as it is for some other mummies,hence my extreme sadness and guilt over it...

 

[Scooby12345]

i never heard of the virgin gut. My lo was spoon fed formula twice, no more than 160mls total because of low blood sugar, severe engorgement preventing latch and sheer exhaustion on my part. She seems to be doing great though! Sure your LO is too.

 

[cleckner04]

I'd never heard of virgin gut before but it just sounds like something else to make those of us that had to top up for whatever reason, feel even worse about it. Emma lost too much weight after a long labor and emergency c-section my milk didn't come in for a week. I had to top her up to help her start gaining again and worked my butt off to express and get my supply up to be exclusive. Emma had 2 weeks of top ups in the beginning. I felt sad in the beginning too but Emma is still breastfed and not many women can say they breastfed for over a year so I'm super proud of myself because I had to work so much harder to get to this point. Women that had it easy from the start just wouldn't understand.

 

[nada87]

what exactly is the big thing about virgin gut? i'm guessing from the name it is when a baby has never had formula but why is it a big deal?

 

[ellie]

I completely understand feeling sad about this.

The more I read, the more I learn, the more important the virgin gut seems to be. I really don't want to sound smug mummy. But I think it highlights the importance of lactivism. When mums are pregnant, they often adopt a take-it-or-leave-it attitude to breastfeeding. And it's so, so hard to explain why this attitude just may not help. I know how obnoxious pro-breastfeeding campaigners can sound to expectant mums..... but there's a reason for it.

Some of the most ardent lactivists are ladies who themselves formula fed their first children.

Melanie

I knew all this when i was pregnant, i never wanted any formula even near my baby, it was out of my hands though, as it is for some other mummies,hence my extreme sadness and guilt over it...

I felt exactly the same (still do sometimes) - but it has got way way easier as time has gone on. I'd say, just keep ebf'ing for as long as you can and it will more than make up for it.

I don't know too much about the virgin gut theory except that it is something like this: "If breastmilk is all that has ever entered baby’s gut, it is often referred to as a “virgin gut”. This is because it is a unique environment only found in an exclusively breastfed baby. Antibodies and other constituents of breastmilk create this environment." something to do with the good bacteria in that environment which gets disrupted and affects immunity if anything other than breastmilk enters. It is considered extremely important in healthcare (e.g. https://www.iwantmymum.com/site/art...lusive-breastfeeding-virgin-gut-why-short/174)
this also says "Only small amounts of formula or solid foods cause a shift that destroys this “virgin gut” environment; removing the coating and killing good bacteria. Just one formula supplement per day will result in an almost immediate shift in which good bacteria are no longer dominant. Even if breastmilk was given exclusively again thereafter, it would take two to four weeks to return again to a state favouring good bacteria. (Brown & Bosworth, 1922; Gerstley, Howell, Nagel, 1932). but ... we can only do what we can now. We cant change what has happened already, but we can change how we see it. Its still very early on for you though and it must still be very raw.

I thought initially though you were referring to the 'gut closure' thing but I think thats to do with the age for starting solid foods

 

[pinkclaire]

It sounds to me your baby had formula for the reasons it was intended for. Please don't beat yourself up, you've done the best by our LO that you can and that's what makes you a brilliant mummy. You could have just kept on formula but you didn't you preserved with it. I think you should be proud of yourself not feel sad. Xx

 

[Lu28]

My understanding of the virgin gut is along the lines of Ellie's and that the longer they have a virgin gut and don't have bits passing through the wall of the gut, the less likely they are to have allergies in the future. So it definitely is a good thing but there are many many benefits to breastmilk on top of this. It's not something to feel guilty about or be down about at all. I supplemented with formula until LO was 5 weeks old and she was then exclusively BF for the next 4 months and I'm proud of that. I wish I hadn't had to supplement in the beginning but my circumstances were what they were and I cant go back and change it.

Be proud of yourself, you're doing great

 

[cutie4evr01]

Please don't feel bad - it only takes about 2-3 weeks of exclusive BF before their gut flora changes back to the good balance. Try to be thankful that the formula helped your baby thrive those first few days, and since then you have been able to restore the flora to the "virgin" state.

 

[MelanieAnn]

Yes, returning to EBM can change the ph to levels favouring Breastfed flora within about 2-3 weeks. But the gut is never the same again. After about 6 months the gut flora returns to majority BF flora. But it never returns. Once no longer a virgin, no longer a virgin....

 

[roc]

Thanks to MOST of you ladies for making me feel better,well i did until i read the last comment, which made me feel sick again!
Melanie ann-cheers for that, i understand you wanting to explain things, but i said specifically i was looking for reassurance, and i'm pretty sure i put across how vulnerable i'm feeling about the whols situation, so i do feel you were insensitive, and your comment was needless.

it's hard enough trying to cope being a new mummy and doing the best you can for your baby, let alone when you feel utterly powerless over something that you can't change and was out of your hands to begin with.

 

[Eve]

Kayleigh had formula mixed with colostrum until my milk came in on day 3 and until now, I've never heard of the "virgin gut" thing... but honestly, you could have done worse lol, so I wouldn't worry. You are breastfeeding which is great and formula used for it's purpose isn't a bad thing hun You're doing great!

 

[Lu28]

Yes, returning to EBM can change the ph to levels favouring Breastfed flora within about 2-3 weeks. But the gut is never the same again. After about 6 months the gut flora returns to majority BF flora. But it never returns. Once no longer a virgin, no longer a virgin....

How is that helpful?

You have done what was best for you and your baby in your circumstances and your LO has gained and is gaining so much from your continued bfing. You're a great mum, this virgin gut business is such a small part of a huge picture

 

[lanaross]

Hun what's done is done. Don't beat yourself about it. Just think of it from a different perspective - formula too has its own benefits, vitamin D for example that is not in your breastmilk. It's not that bad, not the best but it does have lots of nutrients. I had a very similar situation and the bubs was fed formula once or twice without my consent or anything. I was super mad, but nothing I could have done. But again it's not like it was a poison, it's still a very good source of nutrients and vitamins. Also I fed her some formula top offs the first couple days because of jaundice. I almost cried when the doctor told me I should do it, was so disappointed but we were off of it very fast. It definitely didn't do any harm, just helped her to gain her birth weight faster before my milk came in.

 

[Carrie76]

Yes, returning to EBM can change the ph to levels favouring Breastfed flora within about 2-3 weeks. But the gut is never the same again. After about 6 months the gut flora returns to majority BF flora. But it never returns. Once no longer a virgin, no longer a virgin....

Talk about kicking someone when they are down

I've never heard of the term to be honest. Just think of all the other benefits your LO is getting from being breastfed now