Female Circumcision

[TwilightAgain]

Why is it (usually) acceptable to circumcise a male but not a female? I realise this is a very controversial topic so lets try and keep it civil ladies

But those who are ok with male circumcision, what reasons would you give to explain why its ok with males but not females?

Couldn't it be considered the same thing? Altering their genitalia for cosmetic/religious/'cleanliness' purposes.

I know some people need it done because of medical purposes, but I mean other reasons. Why is it socially acceptable for males and not females?

Edit: Ohhhhhh I forgot completely that some procedures result in being stitched up etc etc. I was referring to the removal of the clitoral hood only. Sorry I should have specified. I'm not sure if that alters anyones opinions.

 

[Lightworker]

I don't know why. In the past we have debated this but nobody wants to equate the two.

I don't think they are the same in terms of the extent to which the body is altered, and subsequently the pain and distress suffered. In that sense, they are not the same.

However, they are the same in terms of mutilating the body without proper consent of the subject. Yes these days male circumcision is done under anaesthetic (I think), and perhaps it is usually pain-free etc..but the principle is the same.

It is a touchy subject because I think for the most part, it is done for religious purposes, and to question it is in effect to question one's religion, which isn't always nice. However..as far as I am concerned, the two are the same, and I would not circumcise my son, just as I would not circumcise my daughter.

Weirdly, even some child right's advocate don't see a problem with male circumcision and view those that do as being to extreme. I hope the thread stays clean though. It would be nice if someone who does circumcise could provide their opinion objectively without being defensive as I would like to know what its like from the other perspective.

 

[Blah11]

I don't think they're the same really. male circumcision I find horrid enough but its not done for the same reasons as a female one. Male ones are mainly religious or for cosmetic reasons but generally no harm is done once theyre done and they still enjoy sex. Female circumcision does do harm and its mainly used so the woman has no enjoyment out of sex. Its not just the removal of the clitoral hood. Theres 4 catagories and they include removing the entire labia so the vagina looks just like a hole and even making the vagina opening bigger or smaller Obviously HUGE health risks occur with this.

Its not even referred to as circumcision (its female genital mutilation) cos its so bad WHO want to completely seperate it from male circumcision.

 

[vaniilla]

I would never do anything to do lo's body without his permission so it's never something we would consider doing. As the pp said its not circumcision if done in females, its genital mutilation which is a completely different thing.

 

[smelly07]

I agree with Blah..........the two are completely different.

https://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs241/en/

male circumcision does prove to have health benefits. female genital mutilation has none.

 

[pixeldust]

I am really curious about the same thing. Not in terms of what we have come to equate with female genital mutilation (removal of the clitoris and labia as well as the clitoral hood and sometimes stitching closed of the vagina), but simply in regards to any modification of the genitals of a healthy baby girl vs a healthy baby boy (that is, modification done for purposes above and beyond medical reasons).

Medically, removal of the clitoral hood of a female newborn is roughly equivalent to the removal of the male foreskin of a male newborn, if not less invasive due to the purpose and the area of cells and nerve endings.

My question for those who are pro-circ and have or will circ their newborn sons: IF you were advised that removing your female newborns clitoral hood may give the following benefits, would you do it?

- Make the genitals look nicer to the opposite sex
- Potentially reduce the risk of HIV and HPV transmission (by a tiny marginal amount)
- Possibly assist the females genital area to be easier to clean and more hygienic (especially when they are elderly and in care)

 

[Lightworker]

Actually, it has been argued that the health benefits of male circ are negligibe and it actually can cause harm..i will look for the article some time today...

this going to sound weird...has anyone thought there are no benefits to female circ mainly because no one has bothered to research any given the potential repercussions?

 

[Lightworker]

https://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2011/jun/14/circumcision-ban-row-san-francisco

 

[Blah11]

Actually, it has been argued that the health benefits of male circ are negligibe and it actually can cause harm..i will look for the article some time today...

this going to sound weird...has anyone thought there are no benefits to female circ mainly because no one has bothered to research any given the potential repercussions?

Maybe but theres no harm in keeping all your bits either so why fix something thats not broken I am not pro-circumcision. I think it's something that now needs to die out now, especially when performed on infants. i think the san fran law is a good idea, illegal on a minor. That way when the boy becomes an adult, he can decide if he wants to go ahead with it and I'm pretty sure A LOT of men would decide against it.

 

[tina3747]

I remember a video in religious ed' programme on from senior school ... There's no way you can compare the 2. This particular one was where a girl had the whole clitoris removed and was stitched up with just a small hole left for vaginal fluids to excrete. we were then told its the husbands duty to break her in. I'm not sure if it's 100% true as I'm only quoting on what I remember watching butI still remember to this day... I hope the practice has died out since.

 

[Lightworker]

I remember a video in religious ed' programme on from senior school ... There's no way you can compare the 2. This particular one was where a girl had the whole clitoris removed and was stitched up with just a small hole left for vaginal fluids to excrete. we were then told its the husbands duty to break her in. I'm not sure if it's 100% true as I'm only quoting on what I remember watching butI still remember to this day... I hope the practice has died out since.

the procedure you just described is a clitorectomy..which is the least brutal of the 3..the other include the clitoris being removed plus minor labia..the third means everything off..such that all is left is a flat surface stiched together with the matchstick hole.

the practice has not died out, not by a long shot. Most countries that practice have signed treaties to abolish the practice..but realistically..this is a practice so ingrained in the culture that simply outlawing does not work.

whats worse is that children of those cultures raised in the west are routinely shipped back home for the procedure and then brought back.

 

[tina3747]

I remember a video in religious ed' programme on from senior school ... There's no way you can compare the 2. This particular one was where a girl had the whole clitoris removed and was stitched up with just a small hole left for vaginal fluids to excrete. we were then told its the husbands duty to break her in. I'm not sure if it's 100% true as I'm only quoting on what I remember watching butI still remember to this day... I hope the practice has died out since.

the procedure you just described is a clitorectomy..which is the least brutal of the 3..the other include the clitoris being removed plus minor labia..the third means everything off..such that all is left is a flat surface stiched together with the matchstick hole.

the practice has not died out, not by a long shot. Most countries that practice have signed treaties to abolish the practice..but realistically..this is a practice so ingrained in the culture that simply outlawing does not work.

whats worse is that children of those cultures raised in the west are routinely shipped back home for the procedure and then brought back.

I know it still goes on, I have had a conversation with a customer who worked in a&e on a placement, she said they'd had a few girls/women in with problems from circs. Leicester's very multi cultural so I'm sure we will have girls that would be circ'd . Do the girls go along with these practices with them being told its for religious purposes or forced into it?

 

[smelly07]

This the most recent info regarding MALE circumcision

https://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Circumcision/Pages/Introduction.aspx


I cant find any information on any health benefits for female circumcision at all..........The main reason i can find is so females stay faithful, they are not suppose to find pleasure in sex, most females are forced into it, some do it becasue they feel they have to, to be excepted or to find a husband, some women are forced out of their villages if they refuse, i think very little females want to have the procedure done.

 

[Lightworker]

Tina- some are forced, but I'd like to think that its not all that are "forced" per se. For lack of a better word, they have used some effective "propaganda" such that alot of girls actually WANT the procedure done, and feel less like women if they don't.

I read this book about this Somali girl and she still to this day advocates the cut and her reasons were "girls who are cut are cleaner and smell better" ..no lie..

One of my good friends is from a country that practices it on a massive scale, and was kind enough to share her experiences. She says that they had it done as girls..and if for some reason you get "missed" at that age, you will have it done before your wedding. She says that girls don't feel good if they don't have it done, and there is a stigma associated with uncut girls.

That is the biggest obstacle the campaigners are facing..the attitude of the women. Obviously, one could argue it is force nonetheless because girls at that age cannot give consent...and they don't really know..and also, there are girls that flee from that kind of thing.

 

[smelly07]

yeah i did also read apparently they are cleaner and smell nicer for their husband..........hmmm.

I agree that although some are forced, most grow up just thinking its normal and to be expected, and some feel they have to, like i said before, as if they dont they are forced out of their home and not marriage material, some girls maybe feel they have no choice. I guess maybe its their experience of others around them and how educated they are about the situation.

Did anyone see a documentary about an African tribe who mutilated their lips

https://lauradutoit.hubpages.com/hub/Have-Mursi-on-the-Lip-Plate

the link is a little info on the tribe, but on the documentary if females would not do it they were told to leave the village, they were no interest to any tribe man to choose as his wife.

There is no health benefits to it but its something thats done and they do not really question it, i guess the same must be said for some women in regards to female genital mutilation x

 

[JASMAK]

I am against circumcision - male or female...and I do hope that one day the practice is banned. The thought of doing that to a baby horrifies me.

 

[Lightworker]

weirdly..today is world day against female circumcision...what a coinkidink

 

[angelandbump]

I wouldn't do it to my son unless there was an actual medical problem and i wouldn't do it to a daughter either.

I can't see any benefits to a female or made having this carried out

Having an intact foreskin area will cause no harm, just teach your child to wash properly and they will be fine and when they are older, teach them to wrap it (some people say you have a higher chance of an STI/STD when un-circumstised) x

 

[tina3747]

yeah i did also read apparently they are cleaner and smell nicer for their husband..........hmmm.

I agree that although some are forced, most grow up just thinking its normal and to be expected, and some feel they have to, like i said before, as if they dont they are forced out of their home and not marriage material, some girls maybe feel they have no choice. I guess maybe its their experience of others around them and how educated they are about the situation.

Did anyone see a documentary about an African tribe who mutilated their lips

https://lauradutoit.hubpages.com/hub/Have-Mursi-on-the-Lip-Plate

the link is a little info on the tribe, but on the documentary if females would not do it they were told to leave the village, they were no interest to any tribe man to choose as his wife.

There is no health benefits to it but its something thats done and they do not really question it, i guess the same must be said for some women in regards to female genital mutilation x

Smelly!! I thought that was going to be a photo of someone's mutilated lady lips ...I clicked on with one eye shut and the other just slightly open!!!

Yes I remember that documentary , I'm a sucker for anything religious or out of the norm cultural!! Have you seen the African tribe with the neck rings? Im not sure if I remember right but if you have more rings it's more attractive to men.... My husband is lucky these days if I shave my legs let alone body mutilation!!

 

[tina3747]

Also ,is it true about an old practice for Jewish Rabbis to use a thumb nail and alcohol to circumcise on babies at birth? Can't remember who told me this, could have been my midwife friend or Jewish friend?!