Fighting

[4 boys]

There's a post already on here from another mum but I'm at wits end with my two sons they just don't get along
My 10yr old has behaviour issues ,hyperactive,angry,hits out,constantly naughty,never sits, always bored, you name it is him.
I'm really struggling to cope with him as he's been like this since he was 3 1/2yr.
My oldest is 12 (13 in 2weeks) he's ok just gets on with things but for a few months they constantly argue,fight,pick at each other,always name calling. My 10yr starts it but it's like this from getting up to bed and my 3 1/2yr is copying

I take things away ps3 etc,I tried time out put in another room. I even tried parent classes it doesn't work!!

When on there own my 10yr still be the same so doesn't matter if together or not,my oldest is fine on own..

What do you suggest I do my 10yr does hit me in anger and I just don't speak to him and put him in his room but straight away he'll start again, it's like he can't help it but doctors say they is nothing wrong..
I've tried talking spending time with him and is ok but as soon as it's finished I'm back to square one.

He was born premature at 28weeks and had medical issues like hydrocauphalus, had tracheostomy a lot of major operations on airway problems breathing, and I hate him doing this but he needs to understand this behaviour is not right..

If you was in my shoes what would you do??

Thankyou

 

[4 boys]

 

[Natasha2605]

Does he have a teacher in school you can go in and talk to? See how he is in school and if they have any tips?

It alarms me that he hits you in anger, you need to get that nipped in the bud before he becomes a strong teenager.

I'd honestly take him back to another doctor for another opinion. Even if there's nothing wrong there must be something they can do to help.

 

[messica]

1.) What does their diet consist of?

2.) How much "screen" time are they getting daily? (television, smart phone, tablet, computer, game systems)

3.) What sort of chores and responsibilities do they have and how long have they had them?

4.) How structured is their day?

5.) What sort of discipline do you use and do you use it consistently? (or do you struggle to discipline them because it makes you feel bad)




In my experience 95% of behavior problems can be attributed to any number of the above.


There is no way I, nor my husband, would EVER accept my ten year old hitting me......life as they knew it would end completely if they even TRIED to lay a hand on me. The rest is ridiculous and easily remedied.



Your solutions:

1.) Cut all processed foods and refined sugars. Diet needs to consist mainly of veg, healthy proteins, some fruit and whole grains. No candy, no soda. Period and end of discussion until their behavior improves.

2.) Cut all screen time. I do mean ALL. Period and end of discussion until their behavior improves.

3.) Chores and homework become their life. Period and end of discussion until their behavior improves.

4.) Put up a schedule detailing when they get up, get dressed, brush teeth, head out the door to school, after school, before bedtime etc. Every minute needs to be accounted for and you need to run it drill style until you regain control and compliance. Period and end of discussion until their behavior improves.

5.) I'd up to and include threaten to call law enforcement for any child of mine that old who assaulted to me. Seriously, tour a juvenile detention hall if you need to to get the point across. If they try that business towards anyone else that's exactly where they're headed so you might as well clarify that'll be their new home if they keep it up. I don't raise a hand to my children but would if they were regularly raising a hand to me.....my husband would if I did not. That's just plain ridiculous at that age.



If you're already doing the above or try it (minimum of six months and I personally wouldn't let up for three the first go around even if I saw change) and it doesn't work then I'd be consulting professionals.

I sympathize with you as all that sounds just dreadful. You do have the power to turn it all around!

 

[JJKCB]

1.) What does their diet consist of?

2.) How much "screen" time are they getting daily? (television, smart phone, tablet, computer, game systems)

3.) What sort of chores and responsibilities do they have and how long have they had them?

4.) How structured is their day?

5.) What sort of discipline do you use and do you use it consistently? (or do you struggle to discipline them because it makes you feel bad)




In my experience 95% of behavior problems can be attributed to any number of the above.


There is no way I, nor my husband, would EVER accept my ten year old hitting me......life as they knew it would end completely if they even TRIED to lay a hand on me. The rest is ridiculous and easily remedied.



Your solutions:

1.) Cut all processed foods and refined sugars. Diet needs to consist mainly of veg, healthy proteins, some fruit and whole grains. No candy, no soda. Period and end of discussion until their behavior improves.

2.) Cut all screen time. I do mean ALL. Period and end of discussion until their behavior improves.

3.) Chores and homework become their life. Period and end of discussion until their behavior improves.

4.) Put up a schedule detailing when they get up, get dressed, brush teeth, head out the door to school, after school, before bedtime etc. Every minute needs to be accounted for and you need to run it drill style until you regain control and compliance. Period and end of discussion until their behavior improves.

5.) I'd up to and include threaten to call law enforcement for any child of mine that old who assaulted to me. Seriously, tour a juvenile detention hall if you need to to get the point across. If they try that business towards anyone else that's exactly where they're headed so you might as well clarify that'll be their new home if they keep it up. I don't raise a hand to my children but would if they were regularly raising a hand to me.....my husband would if I did not. That's just plain ridiculous at that age.



If you're already doing the above or try it (minimum of six months and I personally wouldn't let up for three the first go around even if I saw change) and it doesn't work then I'd be consulting professionals.

I sympathize with you as all that sounds just dreadful. You do have the power to turn it all around!

wow... just wow

my son has no set routine of free labour oops sorry 'chores'
eats plenty of sugar (they are kids ffs)
has tv, tablet, computer, phone
doesn't have any of your 'suggestions' and is perfectly behaved...

its a cop out that using them as excuses for not being able to control your child correctly - it worrying as it sounds like you run your home like medomsley corrections (and look at the backlash of that in the news... a regime is not the way to fix problems) its a balancing act and over correction is in general much worse than lapsed correction or no correction at all

to the OP the major issue is violence here, that needs addressing now - your children shouldn't be scared of 'you' but they should be scared of rank - like any animal the young try to overpower the adults and take alpha status and that needs stopping right now before hes too big to fix it, authority should be respected but not feared (out of curiosity is he the same at school? as that wasn't mentioned in OP... Im assuming he has issues with authority in general)

siblings fight that just natural I would expect it especially in the teen years where kids really enter the power struggle to take control of their own life attempt to keep them separate or just separate them when they have issues

as for the younger child that's much easier... stamp it out now so he knows he cant copy (naughty corner etc...) its much easier to implement these technics in younger children

 

[Foogirl]

It occurs to me your 10 year old's behaviour began to deteriorate when he became the middle child. It might be he's been struggling to find his place and has found a way to get your attention so keeps using it.

Although I disagree totally with the regime style noted above, I do think some firm discipline might be a solution. The hitting needs to stop and needs to stop now. There are bound to be some consequences that will affect him. Find his currency and work with that. Also, try spending some time individually to let him see there are other ways of getting attention. And although I think a life of chores and homework and nothing else is totally out of place for children, some chores they have to do every day to let them understand they have a responsibility to help as part of a family might help too. Try to encourage them to work together as a team to get things done. Remind them they have a responsibility to their brother to behave properly too.

Children fight. I fought terribly with my sister at that age, right up until we were about 14. I do think there is an element of letting them get on with it as it is a part of growing up. The need to sort some of their own shit out. If you can, just remove the youngest from the room til they're done.

 

[messica]

Wow, just wow is right. The word regime is pretty extremist and not at all an accurate reflection of my home or family lol


Good luck using a "naughty spot" for a violent 10 year old......if OP can't stop the attacks on her in the moment, what makes you think she'll be able to haul the raging child to a chair???

I'm preparing my children for the real world by giving them chores. Chores that are not free labor by any means. It is an investment in their future and the learning takes time, patience and understanding just like any learning any other skill does. In most circumstances it ends up being more work for me showing them the way, than it is me just doing it myself. Anyone that has ever instilled the value of team work within a family knows what I'm talking about. I want them to grow up not resenting those same responsibilities they're going to have resting on their shoulders some day. Start them now and in gradient form, it's norm. Wait and dump it all on them, shocking them as teens when they move out on their own and are suddenly faced with caring for themselves, they'll flounder and fail. That's not rocket science.

That I limit refined sugar intake and lead them down a path to a healthy diet doesn't warrant a "ffs" comment. Seriously. How dramatic, immature and disrespectful. I want my children to be healthy. Mine have sweets and junk, but in reasonable amounts and at reasonable times. If it contributed to horrific and violent behavior then yes, I would restrict it because that's my job as their mother. Add to that, I want them to live a long and healthy life. Science and research completely supports my stance. If one of my children had been diagnosed as hyperactive as OP said I'd restrict in this area even more as refined sugars and processed foods have long since been proven to contribute to that issue. Again, this is science - not opinion.


I had no idea what the "medomsley corrections" was as I live in the United States, but googled it and can assure you, my home is the furthest thing from any kind of corrections facility. I am extremely well educated in the areas of child behavior and raising in particular. It is quite literally, my life's work. I practiced AP to the extreme through age 5 and still do in many ways today when it comes to my children, my daycare children and my foster children. No one that knows me in real life would EVER describe me the way you have. My children are empathetic, generous with their lives, happy and extremely well behaved as noted by every single individual in their extended circles. Obviously I'm doing something right, as many many people up to and including the state have entrusted their children in my care and none have ever had a negative word to say about my methods or the results they yield.


I didn't achieve that success via any sort of "alpha" hierarchy......children are human beings that need to understand their choices have consequences both good and bad, not that they are wild dogs that need to be scared into submission with unrelated and pointless punitive punishments.


I completely disagree that children need to be allowed to be violent or disrespectful towards each other to sort out their differences. What a ludicrous assertion.....

 

[JJKCB]

Wow, just wow is right. The word regime is pretty extremist and not at all an accurate reflection of my home or family lol


Good luck using a "naughty spot" for a violent 10 year old......if OP can't stop the attacks on her in the moment, what makes you think she'll be able to haul the raging child to a chair???

point out where I sugested that for the 10 year old please


I'm preparing my children for the real world by giving them chores. Chores that are not free labor by any means. It is an investment in their future and the learning takes time, patience and understanding just like any learning any other skill does. In most circumstances it ends up being more work for me showing them the way, than it is me just doing it myself. Anyone that has ever instilled the value of team work within a family knows what I'm talking about. I want them to grow up not resenting those same responsibilities they're going to have resting on their shoulders some day. Start them now and in gradient form, it's norm. Wait and dump it all on them, shocking them as teens when they move out on their own and are suddenly faced with caring for themselves, they'll flounder and fail. That's not rocket science.

I dont need to give my children chores, funily enough there when tonnes of chores I wasnt taught as a child an I manage fine because im not an idiot... give your kids some respect in not thinking they wont be able to handle washing or hoovering in their adult lives

That I limit refined sugar intake and lead them down a path to a healthy diet doesn't warrant a "ffs" comment. Seriously. How dramatic, immature and disrespectful. I want my children to be healthy. Mine have sweets and junk, but in reasonable amounts and at reasonable times. If it contributed to horrific and violent behavior then yes, I would restrict it because that's my job as their mother. Add to that, I want them to live a long and healthy life. Science and research completely supports my stance. If one of my children had been diagnosed as hyperactive as OP said I'd restrict in this area even more as refined sugars and processed foods have long since been proven to contribute to that issue. Again, this is science - not opinion.


as a qualified food and medical scientist please dont use my qualification to try and out smart me especially as you have written nothing of any proof here I am more than qualified to know the media hype from the truth and my child is perfectly healthy with plenty of sugar in his diet

I had no idea what the "medomsley corrections" was as I live in the United States, but googled it and can assure you, my home is the furthest thing from any kind of corrections facility. I am extremely well educated in the areas of child behavior and raising in particular. It is quite literally, my life's work. I practiced AP to the extreme through age 5 and still do in many ways today when it comes to my children, my daycare children and my foster children. No one that knows me in real life would EVER describe me the way you have. My children are empathetic, generous with their lives, happy and extremely well behaved as noted by every single individual in their extended circles. Obviously I'm doing something right, as many many people up to and including the state have entrusted their children in my care and none have ever had a negative word to say about my methods or the results they yield.


I wasnt the only one that mentioned regime... I think you need to re-read what you wrote about punishment, that is exactly what they did in medomsly (obviously not refering to you about the rape that occurred at the hand of one meddlesome staff just the strict regime)

I didn't achieve that success via any sort of "alpha" hierarchy......children are human beings that need to understand their choices have consequences both good and bad, not that they are wild dogs that need to be scared into submission with unrelated and pointless punitive punishments.

all animals are animals... do you not think life has a hierarchy lol - your in serious denial


I completely disagree that children need to be allowed to be violent or disrespectful towards each other to sort out their differences. What a ludicrous assertion.....

once again point out where I said that... I said children fight especially in their teens and to separate them at the early stage to break up the fight if you disagree then I would love to see how you handle children... oh you mentally beat them into submission with no free time, sugar, tv/technology, you make them do chores and work until bed for at least 6 months straight (yeah thats not a regime at all )

 

[messica]

Wow, just wow is right. The word regime is pretty extremist and not at all an accurate reflection of my home or family lol


Good luck using a "naughty spot" for a violent 10 year old......if OP can't stop the attacks on her in the moment, what makes you think she'll be able to haul the raging child to a chair???

point out where I sugested that for the 10 year old please


I'm preparing my children for the real world by giving them chores. Chores that are not free labor by any means. It is an investment in their future and the learning takes time, patience and understanding just like any learning any other skill does. In most circumstances it ends up being more work for me showing them the way, than it is me just doing it myself. Anyone that has ever instilled the value of team work within a family knows what I'm talking about. I want them to grow up not resenting those same responsibilities they're going to have resting on their shoulders some day. Start them now and in gradient form, it's norm. Wait and dump it all on them, shocking them as teens when they move out on their own and are suddenly faced with caring for themselves, they'll flounder and fail. That's not rocket science.

I dont need to give my children chores, funily enough there when tonnes of chores I wasnt taught as a child an I manage fine because im not an idiot... give your kids some respect in not thinking they wont be able to handle washing or hoovering in their adult lives

That I limit refined sugar intake and lead them down a path to a healthy diet doesn't warrant a "ffs" comment. Seriously. How dramatic, immature and disrespectful. I want my children to be healthy. Mine have sweets and junk, but in reasonable amounts and at reasonable times. If it contributed to horrific and violent behavior then yes, I would restrict it because that's my job as their mother. Add to that, I want them to live a long and healthy life. Science and research completely supports my stance. If one of my children had been diagnosed as hyperactive as OP said I'd restrict in this area even more as refined sugars and processed foods have long since been proven to contribute to that issue. Again, this is science - not opinion.


as a qualified food and medical scientist please dont use my qualification to try and out smart me especially as you have written nothing of any proof here I am more than qualified to know the media hype from the truth and my child is perfectly healthy with plenty of sugar in his diet

I had no idea what the "medomsley corrections" was as I live in the United States, but googled it and can assure you, my home is the furthest thing from any kind of corrections facility. I am extremely well educated in the areas of child behavior and raising in particular. It is quite literally, my life's work. I practiced AP to the extreme through age 5 and still do in many ways today when it comes to my children, my daycare children and my foster children. No one that knows me in real life would EVER describe me the way you have. My children are empathetic, generous with their lives, happy and extremely well behaved as noted by every single individual in their extended circles. Obviously I'm doing something right, as many many people up to and including the state have entrusted their children in my care and none have ever had a negative word to say about my methods or the results they yield.


I wasnt the only one that mentioned regime... I think you need to re-read what you wrote about punishment, that is exactly what they did in medomsly (obviously not refering to you about the rape that occurred at the hand of one meddlesome staff just the strict regime)

I didn't achieve that success via any sort of "alpha" hierarchy......children are human beings that need to understand their choices have consequences both good and bad, not that they are wild dogs that need to be scared into submission with unrelated and pointless punitive punishments.

all animals are animals... do you not think life has a hierarchy lol - your in serious denial


I completely disagree that children need to be allowed to be violent or disrespectful towards each other to sort out their differences. What a ludicrous assertion.....

once again point out where I said that... I said children fight especially in their teens and to separate them at the early stage to break up the fight if you disagree then I would love to see how you handle children... oh you mentally beat them into submission with no free time, sugar, tv/technology, you make them do chores and work until bed for at least 6 months straight (yeah thats not a regime at all )

I didn't quote for a reason......

Beyond that, I'm not going to continue arguing with someone who reads what they want and then twists what I say to try to suit their argument, refuses to acknowledge that obscene amounts of refined sugars and processed foods ARE unhealthy and can and do have negative effects on both health and behavior and who insults my parenting/child rearing to the extent you have without knowing me at all.

I will refrain from responding to your extremist and incredibly insulting responses in the future.

 

[Foogirl]

I completely disagree that children need to be allowed to be violent or disrespectful towards each other to sort out their differences. What a ludicrous assertion.....

Siblings have fought since the beginning of time. And will do so long after every trendy parenting fad has gone out of fashion. I'm not saying they should knock seven bells of shit out of each other every day, but verbal spats and the occasional fisticuffs is quite normal and healthy. If we step in and solve each and every fight for our children they never learn how to fight for themselves. Of course limiting physical aggression and explaining why it's not a good idea is a part of good parenting. But allowing children to be children and not restricting them to being young adults way too young is a vital part of parenting too. Far from being a ludicrous assertion, it is the way of the world, and a tried and tested method that has worked over centuries.

And frankly, I don't appreciate comment about it being ludicrous. Yours may not be the only way, it may not even be the best. I refrained from making any personal comments with my opinions on your methods as I believe that would have been disrespectful.

 

[messica]

I completely disagree that children need to be allowed to be violent or disrespectful towards each other to sort out their differences. What a ludicrous assertion.....

Siblings have fought since the beginning of time. And will do so long after every trendy parenting fad has gone out of fashion. I'm not saying they should knock seven bells of shit out of each other every day, but verbal spats and the occasional fisticuffs is quite normal and healthy. If we step in and solve each and every fight for our children they never learn how to fight for themselves. Of course limiting physical aggression and explaining why it's not a good idea is a part of good parenting. But allowing children to be children and not restricting them to being young adults way too young is a vital part of parenting too. Far from being a ludicrous assertion, it is the way of the world, and a tried and tested method that has worked over centuries.

And frankly, I don't appreciate comment about it being ludicrous. Yours may not be the only way, it may not even be the best. I refrained from making any personal comments with my opinions on your methods as I believe that would have been disrespectful.

I guess my parents never allowed that level of aggression in my home growing up. Neither did their parents (came from families sized 7 and 9 children) and I can count on one hand how many friends parents I saw allow it in all my years (never were friends long as it got down right scary at times to see them pummel on each other during play dates). I don't see my taking a hard line against violence in the home as any kind of "fad."

May be another one of those regional differences. I do know for fact it's not as common here as you claim it is over there. Happens? Yes. Considered acceptable on a wide scale? Not at all. If a boy harming members of his own family at that age is normal elsewhere you're darn right I'm glad I live here. We're not talking toddler swats, we're talking a child big enough and strong enough to do real and serious harm.

Beyond toddlerhood it's typically deemed completely unacceptable here. Violence like that in grade school will get you kicked out. In this day and age not just suspended, but expelled. Violence like that in extracurriculars will get you kicked off the team. Violence like that at home will get you arrested, locked up in juvenile detention, and yes.....that includes young adults.


My husband works on the road four days out of the week and my son is fairly big and strong for being just 9 years old. I can't imagine fearing him, fearing his attacks, fearing his attacks on his sibling......and yes, I think it's ludicrous that anyone would call that kind of violence typical or any part of essential to a child's childhood experience. His sibling happens to be female, and there is no way I'd be brushing off him raising his hand to any woman at his age (and regardless of age).

 

[Foogirl]

I'm not talking about violent outbursts which cause real physical harm on family members, I'm talking about kids fighting the way kids do and when it's a ten year old and a twelve year old there is no need for them to be fearful of each other. And I don't think it's cultural thing, it's human nature. I've seen plenty of evidence of it happening all around the world.

 

[Tasha]

I would go and see either another GP or the school and ask for a referal to CAMHS x

 

[aimee-lou]

OP - First thing I noticed is you pointed out he was born premature. I would say that there may be something nuerological at play bundled in with hormones as he grows up. May be worth getting him assessed through the GP or the school just to rule it out if nothing else. Second, siblings do fight, as foogirl said. I'm sure they've been doing something similar to one another since DS2 was born in reality, it's just now they're bigger, louder and probably more physical as boys/men are.

My advice (as an inexperienced person - mine are 4, 20m and 5m) would be to try to give each of them personal space, especially your eldest as you've said he's fine if he's on his own.

I agree that there should be structure - to quote the old adage 'the devil makes work for idle hands'. if there's a structure and a purpose to most of their time, they're less likely to get up in each others' way.

Do they/could they share a common interest? A hobby, club or sport? Maybe something they could so together to teach them to enjoy one another's company again.

And I too would not tolerate violence. I wouldn't 'not speak to him' though. By all means walk away, give out consequences and take away gadgets, but don't ignore him as he obviously has something on his mind. Could he use a communication tool like a diary or a suggestion box where he could put his thoughts and feelings in for you to read. If he gets angry does he have somewhere he can go?

These are just ideas....I actually have no experience so I hope it's helped and I hope things improve

 

[JJKCB]

I have no idea what planet (or region) messica's from but NO ONE at any point has condoned violence, NO ONE at any point has said children should be violent to each other and NO ONE has said the mother shouldn't address the situation just that YOUR way is far to strict and ludicrous for a 9 year old child

you are fighting with yourself and refusing to read what everyone else has said by spurting off random stuff NO ONE has said

 

[4 boys]

Thank you everyone for your advise.

Sorry not been on for a while, I really didn't want this to turn into a argument I think some of the things mentioned in the post were harsh and not needed but I did ask for advise and I suppose I get what I asked for

Aimee-Lou and Tasha-- yeah my son was prem and had a large bleed on his brain which is hydracauphalus and I asked his consultant if this can cause behaviour probs but he said no but I googled and it said it can so I don't know if to push for more tests and answers.

I have also been to CAMHS and he was assessed but again they said because he's good in school there's no issue..
They were the ones that said parent course which I did but didn't benefit..

I personally think he has a problem we went to gp and they said he's got anxiety issues but nothing else,, I feel let down as he been like this from 3 1/2 but also it could be related to the fact he was prem and had many problems..

I feel like the bleed on the brain has affected him but I need to prove it.

My children do have a daily routine and have chores just like normal kids I know he hits me out of anger I've got him a punch bag to use because we talked and he knows he hurts me but if he has a anger 'problem' I need to get him support just like a adult would need..

I love my son to bits and I would never hurt or cause him pain but I just wanted support if anyone has been through this.

They do get toys ps3 etc taken away and time out but it's a struggle and he doesn't have a HIGH sugar intake they eat pretty healthy.

I thinks it best I end this post because I didn't intend to cause upset meant or a argument I just wanted support

Thanks again

 

[MummyMana]

Have you thought of getting your 10 year old into a martial art? It would be a great outlet aswell as using up some energy and teaching him discipline when it comes to violence. it may help him channel his aggression productively. Maybe your 13 year old could join to so rather than fighting with each other in an angry and aggressive way, they can practice and spar together in a friendly way

 

[JASMAK]

Thank you everyone for your advise.

Sorry not been on for a while, I really didn't want this to turn into a argument I think some of the things mentioned in the post were harsh and not needed but I did ask for advise and I suppose I get what I asked for

Aimee-Lou and Tasha-- yeah my son was prem and had a large bleed on his brain which is hydracauphalus and I asked his consultant if this can cause behaviour probs but he said no but I googled and it said it can so I don't know if to push for more tests and answers.

I have also been to CAMHS and he was assessed but again they said because he's good in school there's no issue..
They were the ones that said parent course which I did but didn't benefit..

I personally think he has a problem we went to gp and they said he's got anxiety issues but nothing else,, I feel let down as he been like this from 3 1/2 but also it could be related to the fact he was prem and had many problems..

I feel like the bleed on the brain has affected him but I need to prove it.

My children do have a daily routine and have chores just like normal kids I know he hits me out of anger I've got him a punch bag to use because we talked and he knows he hurts me but if he has a anger 'problem' I need to get him support just like a adult would need..

I love my son to bits and I would never hurt or cause him pain but I just wanted support if anyone has been through this.

They do get toys ps3 etc taken away and time out but it's a struggle and he doesn't have a HIGH sugar intake they eat pretty healthy.

I thinks it best I end this post because I didn't intend to cause upset meant or a argument I just wanted support

Thanks again

Sorry to hear all that you are going through. My kids argue...some days a lot but it does seem like there is more at play. I have no suggestions except if you feel that there is more to this than keep fighting for answers.