Formula under lock and key....comments?

[Sarachka]

Was anything mentioned about exclusively breastfed babies having higher IQs in that Swedish study, Eala? I've read that on various sites and it's the one thing that bothers me still months after my "breastfeeding failure".

There are some questions if that is because those that breastfeed might also be more educated or likely to read/stimulate their child. There could be other factors outside of breastfeeding that brings that correlation.

I often think about this as well. Is it directly related to BF or indirectly? Like, perhaps those babies are likely to also live in bigger houses, but being breast fed doesn't cause you to have more than one bathroom in the house

I'd also like to do a survey of, say, the US women's gymnastics team and see who was BF and who was FF.

I wonder about things way too much, I think!

 

[Gunnhilde]

I had to ask for formula in the hospital in Connecticut almost 4 years ago. LO would not stop screaming at the top of her lungs because she was so hungry. It certainly didn't stop me from continuing to attempt to BF and if I hadn't done it they wouldn't have let her go home because she was losing so much weight.

I think it is completely presumptuous of the hospitals that everyone should breastfeed or will be able to.

 

[nicki01]

I didnt get any support with breast feeding, my sister helped me latch charlie the first time when she was a few minutes old as i had no clue what i was doing.
No one in hospital even spoke to me about it, in fact charlie was fed for 10 minutes when born and then not fed again for 7 hours!!! Because they were stitching me, then said not to move her as she was cold so needed to be by the radiator and then they sent me home.
I was lucky to get on well with breastfeeding on my own for 3 weeks but at 3 weeks i asked my midwife if there was anyone to give me some guidance as i was struggling, i was tired, wasnt sure she was getting enough etc. I got told 4 times in that last week that a breast feeding support member should be calling me. They never did. I then switched to formula completely and got made to feel sooo guilty by my midwife. 'Why did you stop you were doing so well, now your baby is drinking formula and you told me you didnt want that, you said you wanted to breastfeed for 6 months' etc

I felt so guilty and down about it for weeks and months, after a few weeks i spoke to my midwife about trying again and she told me it wasnt worth the hassle as she was on formula now so best not to confuse her!!!

I know now alot more than i did and will do things soo differently next time. New mums dont have a clue what they are doing (not meaning to offend with that), and i had no idea that there were people you call and visit for support and to be honest the hospital, midwives etc were useless!

I have no judgement on how people choose to feed there babies, as long as they are fed thats all that matters but there should be more support on which ever way a parent decides.

 

[dizz]

We had to do the wonderful walk of shame (imagine the Weakest Link walk off) through the ward to the nurses' station... had one delightful day when a really obnoxious sneery woman was in the bed next to me and she tutted and made a tonne of shirty commands at me doing the walk of shame to pick up my bottle of Cow and Gate.

So next feed I left the curtains around the bed back - so she got to see me trying to coax a 4lb baby to feed at all through their mouth, and putting the remainder of her feed down a feeding tube... funnily the comments stopped then. Hopefully she felt like utter shit for the sneering she'd done (especially when she saw half the feed was expressed milk topped up to her required quantity with formula) - but somehow I doubt she felt any remorse whatsoever.

These days I'd have just gone and given her what for about her insensitivity - but nope, no "bad mommy formula evil" lecture from the nurses... why bother when the other patients do it for you?

Incidentally it's actually the behaviour of lactivists putting me OFF the idea of breastfeeding number 2.

 

[Eala]

Dizz, that's awful I really hope that woman felt really ashamed of herself, even if obviously an apology was too much to ask for Sadly the militants and people who think that commenting on someone elses' business is acceptable usually are too dim to realise that they are doing anything wrong or being hurtful in the first place.

 

[vintage67]

Since I actually think breastmilk is the best choice for a baby (despite the inability to do it with both of my children) I am concerned that the way things are going people will be put off by it. I would hate for someone to think they have to breastfeed out of fear of repercussion and judgement instead of something they want for their baby.

 

[Courtcourt]

This makes me so mad. Its nobody's business.

 

[babygirlFTM12]

when my lo was born by emcs i did latch her on in the recovery room, but due to c section and stress i had no milk for 6 days at least, they were starving her she had 2 days with only one diaper change, she was dry and lethargic and lost 13% of her body weight. they refused me formula

the extremely annoying lactation nurse who came said she was fine. then on our last day her jaundice became very severe and all of a sudden they were supplementing her while she was under the lights

the whole thing was bullshit and was like a kick when i was down

 

[SLCMommy]

Can I join in on the convo?

I am pregnant and I do plan to breastfeed, as that is what I know is best for baby. However, I have three children, and my first I formula fed since she was out of the hospital. I tried so hard to breastfeed her, but by the time I got out of the hospital my nipples were bleeding and I had hardly any breastfeeding support.

I was so depressed, and guilty. As I was feeding her a bottle of formula and crying, a pro-breastfeeding commercial came on tv. With big letters it said "Mothers Who Care, Breastfeed" I sobbed and sobbed!!

I DID care! I already felt poopy enough for not breastfeed...I thought to myself "how horribly mean of an advertisement!"

On the other hand, I DO believe that breast IS best, and always will be. I live in a state in the US where 9 out of ever 10 women EBF for the first six months, so if you formula feed your infant i'm sure there is even a bigger stigma here (I just moved here about a year ago)

Anyways, the only issue I have is this:

My first OB appointment this time around, I got a goodie bag and inside of it? Numbers for the doctor, hospital, safe medications to take while pregnant and tons and tons of...formula advertising! Whaaaat?! I'm all for personal choice but this seems like shoving the idea down throats!

AND, I have at least three or four MONTHS worth of full-sized formula in both ready to feed and powder form that I have gotten from companies! They keep sending me the stuff! So if I wanted to formula feed, I'd be set for a good while!

And while, samples are okay especially as a back-up, I think to keep sending out ads and to push formula (basically, competing with breastfeeding) sends a signal that it's OKAY to chose between the two. I feel that unless you cannot breastfeed for medical reasons (low supply, severely cracked/sore nipples (mine were drippling blood) mastectomy, psychological, etc) you should at least try and give your child what your body is designed to do. While I strongly disagree with the "giving a patient a talking too" (come on, we are not children!) I think one time telling the mother before the first formula bottle how much better breastmilk is for baby is good enough.

Woman don't need to be harassed on the maternity units. Just let them feed their infants.

On the other hand, I do agree with having to ask for the formula. It encourages women to truly try breastfeeding, which IS the most natural way to feed a child. Formula feeding needs to stay at a 2nd option, not the first.

As far as the mayor "staying out of bras", I don't get it. I believe he is doing a service for the future of the children but trying to get women to breastfeed. In the end, although I felt guilty with my daughter and cried about it, I did so because I knew my daughter wasn't getting the best I could give her. I think that is why any mom would feel guilty. Formula isn't going to hurt a child, but we all know it's not the best.

I think it hurts the most when you as a mother honestly put your best foot forward with breastfeeding and it didn't work. Than we have to try what? milk based products from another species (cow - which is what most formula is made from) or plants? beans? other alternatives?

I agree there should be advocating - but not PUSHING. Trashing a mom every time she requests a bottle in the hospital isn't fair.

I commend WIC here (if you are American you probably know what I mean) in my state, they do NOT advertise on their pamphlet or website that they will pay for infant formula. (Unlike when I lived in Minnesota, WIC totally did). I asked one of the ladies at WIC why I didn't see any formula listed in the packet, and she said it's because they encourage breastfeeding and they will pay for formula with a doctors note and after the baby is 30 days old.

They also told me that for their pregnant clients, in order for them to get vouchers every three months, they must attend a breastfeeding class. Kudos!! Kudos!! This particular state also will give a breastfeeding mother a breastpump, too.

I was glad to hear that they will still pay for formula for women if needed.

 

[SLCMommy]

Sorry for typos ladies! I'm sleepy! hehe

 

[ceejie]

This is the way it is here in BC, especially Vancouver. Everyone is very anti FF. In the hospital you are basically told breastfeeding is the only option. End of story. God forbid you bring up formula.

I just plain don't produce milk, even after months of domperidone and pumping around the clock I still barely produced a thing. I have PCOS and "immature breast tissue" and one breast doesn't even produce a drop, while the other makes very very little.

At about 1 or 2 weeks I had started supplementing, but only 1 oz at a time after BF'ing, because my DD had lost 14% of her birth weight and was not gaining. At 1 month she was still below birth weight, I was told even a "sickly baby" should be above birth weight by 2-3 weeks at the latest. My DD had blood tests, stomach ultrasounds etc to see why she wasn't gaining. Yet, my GP kept berating me for giving my baby formula and kept telling me to "throw out the formula" and basically made me felt like I was hurting my baby by giving her formula.

I ended up seeing a pediatrician who found that my daughter had reflux and told me to just feed her as much formula as she would drink as often as she wanted because she was obviously not getting enough milk from me despite nursing around the clock. I did as the pediatrician said and my tiny little baby who was 5lbs 14oz at her smallest was suddenly over 7 lbs within a week or two and continued gaining.

At 3 months I finally gave up trying to BF and pump non stop to build my supply, as she was getting over 80% formula anyways. She is now nearly 4 months, and while she is still on the small side (13lbs) she is an incredibly happy and healthy baby. Yet, to this day I cry over not being able to breast feed her because EVERYONE, including my GP, tells me how bad it is to formula feed. Strangers literally come up to me in public when I am bottle feeding her and tell me I should be breastfeeding.

While I understand "breast is best" it does not work for everyone, and I can say from experience policies like this just make it hard for those who cannot produce and, quite frankly, I feel it put my daughter's health at risk and I wish I had been able to stand up for myself at the time and know that it was okay to formula feed.

 

[Eala]

OK, firstly - breast is NOT best. Not for every Mum, not for every child. In a lot of situations, breastmilk is an ideal food source for a child, absolutely. But not always, nor is breastfeeding always the best choice for Mum or baby, for a myriad of reasons. From medical ones, down to plain old "I don't want to", and all are equally valid reasons. The research which supposedly shows the supreriority of breastfeeding is made up of a number of studies whose credibility is dubious, to say the least. And in the end, the research is ultimately pointless - oh look, another study which says that breastfed babies have higher IQ Not that it'd be anything to do with the mothers who breastfed (in the sample group) being white, middle-upper class, SAHM who themselves have higher IQs... How about some research into the genuine medical issues which cause problems with breastfeeding? How about really looking at how to improve formula, rather than leaving all the development to the formula companies who then (wait for it) advertise (!) so that they can maximise their profits. The longterm effects of breastfeeding are still unknown, so the idea that Mayor Bloomberg is doing this for "the future of children" is idealistic at best. Mr Bloomberg is doing this for his own political reputation, no other reason.

Breastfeeding may be the "natural" way to feed, however it's also "natural" to have freedom of choice. Also there are plenty of "natural" things which people don't do, and aren't berated for every single time. It's natural to be hairy - do you shave your legs? Armpits? If so, why?! It's natural...

I really don't understand why people think that breastfeeding support has to be anti-formula. It is entirely possible to be supportive of breastfeeding without treating formula as though it is the Anti-Christ of the infant world. Because you know what? When you do that, all you are doing is setting up the situation where when breastfeeding doesn't work out (when someone wanted it to) they suffer major guilt. If you've had it (incorrectly/innacurately) banged into your head repeatedly for 9 months that formula will make your baby fat, stupid and sickly, then when formula becomes your only/best option, that is not a positive place to be in. How about instead of banging on about the so-called evils of formula, the campaigns focussed on getting meaningful breastfeeding support in place 24/7, for every Mum who wants it? I agree that when a Mum wants to breastfeed, it's appalling that she could be in the position where she gives up due to a lack of information and support. That shouldn't happen. But hey, in NYC that is even less likely to happen now, as all the nurses will be too busy chastising Mums for daring to ask for formula to be available for BF support.

The formula samples thing I am ambivalent about, mainly because we don't get them here. I don't see our BF'ing rates being much better, but hey, must get on the "anti-formula" train. What I'd say about the samples is that if they offend you so much, here's an idea - donate them to a woman's shelter, or similar. Fairly sure that they will always be grateful for them. No-one is forcing you to keep them or use them. But it does make me angry when people gleefully go on about burning or binning tins of formula which someone could really need. Given that Mums in America have been ranting about formula samples for some time, these things aren't surprising, so either refuse them at the source or put them to good use. Don't see why knickers need to get in a twist because of it.

Anyway, I'm ranting now, but it's been a long morning already on very little sleep

 

[Gunnhilde]

AND, I have at least three or four MONTHS worth of full-sized formula in both ready to feed and powder form that I have gotten from companies! They keep sending me the stuff! So if I wanted to formula feed, I'd be set for a good while!

And while, samples are okay especially as a back-up, I think to keep sending out ads and to push formula (basically, competing with breastfeeding) sends a signal that it's OKAY to chose between the two. I feel that unless you cannot breastfeed for medical reasons (low supply, severely cracked/sore nipples (mine were drippling blood) mastectomy, psychological, etc) you should at least try and give your child what your body is designed to do. While I strongly disagree with the "giving a patient a talking too" (come on, we are not children!) I think one time telling the mother before the first formula bottle how much better breastmilk is for baby is good enough.

Woman don't need to be harassed on the maternity units. Just let them feed their infants.

On the other hand, I do agree with having to ask for the formula. It encourages women to truly try breastfeeding, which IS the most natural way to feed a child. Formula feeding needs to stay at a 2nd option, not the first.

As far as the mayor "staying out of bras", I don't get it. I believe he is doing a service for the future of the children but trying to get women to breastfeed. In the end, although I felt guilty with my daughter and cried about it, I did so because I knew my daughter wasn't getting the best I could give her. I think that is why any mom would feel guilty. Formula isn't going to hurt a child, but we all know it's not the best.

I think it hurts the most when you as a mother honestly put your best foot forward with breastfeeding and it didn't work. Than we have to try what? milk based products from another species (cow - which is what most formula is made from) or plants? beans? other alternatives?

I agree there should be advocating - but not PUSHING. Trashing a mom every time she requests a bottle in the hospital isn't fair.

I commend WIC here (if you are American you probably know what I mean) in my state, they do NOT advertise on their pamphlet or website that they will pay for infant formula. (Unlike when I lived in Minnesota, WIC totally did). I asked one of the ladies at WIC why I didn't see any formula listed in the packet, and she said it's because they encourage breastfeeding and they will pay for formula with a doctors note and after the baby is 30 days old.

They also told me that for their pregnant clients, in order for them to get vouchers every three months, they must attend a breastfeeding class. Kudos!! Kudos!! This particular state also will give a breastfeeding mother a breastpump, too.

I was glad to hear that they will still pay for formula for women if needed.

I got divorced when I was pregnant with DD and I was poor. I have no shame in admitting that I NEEDED those free samples and that if WIC had done that to me I might have just had a mental breakdown. It was bad enough having to go to an appointment and admit that I was that poor in front of other mothers (they do group appoints here), but to have to bring my daughter as well, and then to be told I couldn't get formula without a doctor's note and not for the first 30 days!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You have to be kidding me. Getting WIC was humiliating and degrading for me and why the heck would I even go if I didn't need formula? Breastmilk is free and we have an excellent food bank in town (the WIC food vouchers for BF moms are just kind of sad).

 

[Saphira]

SLCMommy - I believe "breast is best" under ideal conditions. Unfortunately not every woman has these ideal conditions when it comes to breastfeeding their baby. I certainly didn't. So, for my daughter and I, formula turned out to be the best option. Each situation is individual.

Here in Germany I've been sent samples for follow on milk (never first milk) only on rare occasions, which if I ended up successfully breastfeeding, wouldn't have offended me at all. If a mother feels strongly about breastfeeding then formula samples aren't going to persuade her to drop everything and give her baby formula suddenly.
At my daughter's pediatrician's we were gifted a nice formula box container with a bottle and some other goodies inside. The container's so handy for us that we went on ebay and bid and won another one! For moms who breastfeed and have no use for it they can just sell it to a mom like me and make some money off it.
At the end of all formula commercials I've seen is the line, "Breastfeeding is best for your child". I disagree with this statement, because again, under ideal conditions it's best, yes. For us formula turned out being best.

 

[vintage67]

Eala, beautifully said.

You are absolutely right. When you demonize formula to promote breastfeeding you have left a woman backed into a very unpleasant corner if breastfeeding has to be given up or stopped for health reasons, mental or physical.

It's very disturbing. If you're lucky, at the end of the tragic breastfeeding realtionship that went awry, you will maybe get a statement like, "oh well formula is okay if you truly couldn't breastfeed." Don't know how you could be comforted or take that seriously after being practically threatened with childhood obesity, eczema, cancer and a cold, sterile relationship with a baby that isn't truly bonded to you.

No one should have to do the "walk of shame" as I think Dizz described it, to get a prescription or some written permission to get nutrition for their child.

I think the outcry about this has been pretty harsh so I hope they are rethinking this. Six week maternity leaves (common in the US), make this even more heartless.

(And I still think this kind of thing will hurt, rather than help breastfeeding by making it seem like a hostile thing)

 

[SLCMommy]

When I said breastfeeding is best, I meant scientifically. You all misunderstood what I was trying to say, I apologize for that

 

[SLCMommy]

and I am no way degrading formula, I've definitely used formula myself. Eala & Gunn, I found your posts to be really defensive when it didn't need to be. Can't we all discuss this as mothers, from all different viewpoints on it? I don't think anyone is against each other here.

Gunn: I'm currently on WIC myself. I know what you mean about it being embarrassing.

Eala: Very good point on the IQ.

 

[SLCMommy]

This is the way it is here in BC, especially Vancouver. Everyone is very anti FF. In the hospital you are basically told breastfeeding is the only option. End of story. God forbid you bring up formula.

I just plain don't produce milk, even after months of domperidone and pumping around the clock I still barely produced a thing. I have PCOS and "immature breast tissue" and one breast doesn't even produce a drop, while the other makes very very little.

At about 1 or 2 weeks I had started supplementing, but only 1 oz at a time after BF'ing, because my DD had lost 14% of her birth weight and was not gaining. At 1 month she was still below birth weight, I was told even a "sickly baby" should be above birth weight by 2-3 weeks at the latest. My DD had blood tests, stomach ultrasounds etc to see why she wasn't gaining. Yet, my GP kept berating me for giving my baby formula and kept telling me to "throw out the formula" and basically made me felt like I was hurting my baby by giving her formula.

I ended up seeing a pediatrician who found that my daughter had reflux and told me to just feed her as much formula as she would drink as often as she wanted because she was obviously not getting enough milk from me despite nursing around the clock. I did as the pediatrician said and my tiny little baby who was 5lbs 14oz at her smallest was suddenly over 7 lbs within a week or two and continued gaining.

At 3 months I finally gave up trying to BF and pump non stop to build my supply, as she was getting over 80% formula anyways. She is now nearly 4 months, and while she is still on the small side (13lbs) she is an incredibly happy and healthy baby. Yet, to this day I cry over not being able to breast feed her because EVERYONE, including my GP, tells me how bad it is to formula feed. Strangers literally come up to me in public when I am bottle feeding her and tell me I should be breastfeeding.

While I understand "breast is best" it does not work for everyone, and I can say from experience policies like this just make it hard for those who cannot produce and, quite frankly, I feel it put my daughter's health at risk and I wish I had been able to stand up for myself at the time and know that it was okay to formula feed.

I breastfed my son for four months, and than out of the blue I experienced low supply of my milk. I couldn't believe it, I'd try pumping and it was getting less and less but my feedings were consistent. His doctor told me he was losing weight, so I needed to do something. I ended up doing a...oh, I forgot what it's called but the baby is still at the breast but there's a small tubing near the nipple that's taped, and the tubing goes to a bottle of formula. Well, even that didn't get my supply gong. I can totally understand the desire to want too but just nature isn't letting you. Kudos to you for trying, in my opinion that really is all that matters. If you couldn't feed her breast milk for a whole 6 months - 1 year, don't beat yourself up for it. Breastfeeding in some cases doesn't come naturally, and you are not less of a woman for formula feeding. I'm sorry to this day you still are upset about it, but you did what you could. It's like how some women who have C-Sections, beat themselves up because their vaginal birth didn't go right. The important thing is a healthy child, through and through. Your GP shouldn't be telling you how "bad" formula feeding is, formula isn't poison. All he needs to say is that science has proven that breast milk is natures way of feeding a baby, formula can't be 100% replicated - just once! (Not sure if your GP is telling you formula is bad all the time) but if your GP knew you tried, I'm not sure why he would tell you that if he knew you put your best foot forward with it. It just doesn't work out for some of us, and you know what? That's perfectly okay. Formula was created to be an alternative to breast milk and if you needed to use it, than you needed to use it! There should be no shame, but I know what you mean. It feels like something inside of you isn't working....but I just look at it in the aspect that it was either that or letting our babies starve. I can see someone (like myself) who feels like breast feeding is worth a try, but why did your GP harass you and tell you to throw out the formula? Is there anyway you can find a different GP who is more understanding of you? That doesn't sound like a good bedside manner. xx

 

[Gunnhilde]

and I am no way degrading formula, I've definitely used formula myself. Eala & Gunn, I found your posts to be really defensive when it didn't need to be. Can't we all discuss this as mothers, from all different viewpoints on it? I don't think anyone is against each other here.

Gunn: I'm currently on WIC myself. I know what you mean about it being embarrassing.

Eala: Very good point on the IQ.

I'm not being overly defensive, but at the same time - I think the FF section is where we can come and not have BF pushed on us, you know?

For me, I didn't think breastfeeding was best and I do think the WIC program in Utah is overstepping. I might even voluntarily FF from birth next time.

 

[SLCMommy]

and I am no way degrading formula, I've definitely used formula myself. Eala & Gunn, I found your posts to be really defensive when it didn't need to be. Can't we all discuss this as mothers, from all different viewpoints on it? I don't think anyone is against each other here.

Gunn: I'm currently on WIC myself. I know what you mean about it being embarrassing.

Eala: Very good point on the IQ.

I'm not being overly defensive, but at the same time - I think the FF section is where we can come and not have BF pushed on us, you know?

For me, I didn't think breastfeeding was best and I do think the WIC program in Utah is overstepping. I might even voluntarily FF from birth next time.

WIC is like this in *most* states, but there are some states that are not quite as strict. I'm not sure how WIC determines how their structure is because I found WIC in Minnesota to be more liberal but was told by someone who worked for WIC in Maine WIC is usually structured by the way Utah is. Maybe it's at the state level? I'm unsure about how they decide what to have as rules.

You are absolutely right, FF section is a place where we can come together but that doesn't necessary mean those who are for formula feeding don't see the benefits in breast milk either. In fact, the name of this thread is "Formula under lock and key...comments?" which is to me, an invite to a friendly, open and honest healthy discussion on whether or not formula under lock and key is appropriate. I understand this is a place for FF supports (and like I've said before, I've FF myself! ) but we all should be able to discuss things as FF supporters in a manner where we are all understanding that we are all adults, and all will have great, valuable, different insights on the topic.

Ps: Are you moving to Ireland? I'm jealous!