Found this article interesting/thought provoking regarding Birth Trauma

[lisaf]

https://thestir.cafemom.com/baby/112145/birth_rape_is_real?

Prior to reading the article, I'm not sure I would ever agree to the term 'Birth Rape'. But a woman screaming 'no stop' being pinned down, who tries to kick her doctor away from doing a procedure that is NOT an urgent life-saving procedure and whose leg is held down by nurses so the doctor can do the procedure... well that seems pretty close to the trauma of rape to me.
I read through about 20 pages of the comments on that article.

Not all instances would earn that term.. many are due to feeling so powerless or callous attitudes of the staff, being persuaded to agree to things that aren't necessary. Being talked into procedures that carry more risk than benefit. Not being warned of the complication risks that come with certain choices (like elective inductions).

I know my plan for a natural labor fell apart pretty much exactly how I was afraid it would (took too long, add pitocin, pain spirals out of control, need epidural etc). I did have a doula there advocating for me and as a result did not feel powerless.
The nurses forgot to check my urine so when my labor stalled they finally checked and said 'oh you're dehydrated and spilling keytones, no wonder things aren't progressing' ... that was about 8 hours after I checked in.
I agreed to a 'whiff' of pitocin, then a few hours later it suddenly got more painful and I find they dialed it up without asking me first, I begged them to turn it down and they refused (funny enough, once they got the internal monitor on, they had to dial it down because it was too hard on my baby... after I had already caved and had my water broken and an epidural).

I had also been pushed towards a c-section due to baby's size (which was large) but I did my research first and found that a large baby only increases the chance of shoulder dystocia from 1% to 5%... so I was being persuaded to agree to major surgery because of a 5% risk?

The anesthesiologist came by to see me before I'd agreed to an epidural, I didn't like his attitude though he didn't say anything technically wrong, and when I finally did agree to the epidural, he told me 'there is nothing natural about natural childbirth'

I wonder how much the rate of lawsuits for birth defects/injuries contribute to doctors pushing for stuff that statistically lowers the risk to the babies, but increases the injury/risk to the mother?

Just wanted to stir up a discussion here.

 

[PeanutBean]

I feel very strongly about the feelings and experiences of the mother during birth and I also feel that it is frequent that mothers undergo unnecessary intervention that leads to greater risk to mother and baby (and consequently unnecessary damage to both). You'll find this topic is well explored in the home and natural birthing section.

 

[lisaf]

I think its an issue beyond home and natural birth (though some women choose a natural birth at home in order to avoid having this stuff happen to them).
You should have the same rights whether you get an epidural in the hospital or if you want a water birth at home.

 

[PeanutBean]

Totally agree. I find it very interesting that in all other areas of medical care people are encouraged to get second opinions, research and be demanding about treatment, have autonomy to refuse treatment even if that results in their own death, yet where maternity services are concerned the rights of the mother and the most standard medical principles such as informed consent go entirely out the window. I believe it is a feminist issue. We are shaped by society to believe we are if no significance once babies are in the picture (born or unborn); that our entire existence is sacrificed to the baby; that everything medical is good and will save our baby which otherwise we would somehow be biologically unable to birth without assistance. You see it all over the forum even, arguments about doing anything to not put your baby at risk regardless of the likelihood of given events, together with near total ignorance of the risks of the interventions used. The only of society is shaped this way leading women to go to hospital, to accept what they are given, mostly without question, in the belief they are doing it for the good of their baby. Then when they have a dreadful experience the whole thing is reinforced with the words "all that matters is that your baby is here" because mums are mere vessels for birthing and who cares if they are broken as a consequence of the actions of doctors?

 

[Lightworker]

Hmm interesting. I haven't read the article fully, but based on OP, I can see what they mean. My DH was studying this article titled Giving Birth on the Edge of a Knife, and was mainly an analysis of medical intervention during births which are not strictly necessary.

Incidentally, when I was pregnant, I used to read other forums that were mainly for American ladies, and a good number of the ladies knew months beforehand, when they were going to be induced. I didn't understand that, it seems to be quite a common practice, and again one wonders if it is motivated by fear of lawsuits.

Doctors want to take the element of control from nature's hands, into their own, hoping for better outcomes.

It sucks mainly because during the process of giving birth, I would even argue that the state you are in should be taken into account when making decisions, you are so vulnerable, panicky etc..its not under normal circumstances.

 

[lisaf]

Right, but because you are in a different 'state' while in labor, its like they assume you can't make decisions.

I have to add that I had a VERY good hospital in regards to respecting my wishes. I didn't ever get any rude comments from the nurses or catch any hint of malice/judgement for my choices.

It doesn't help that they basically have you sign a waiver when you check in that makes whatever happens basically legal. I understand they need it because if you are bleeding out and dying and unconsicous, they may have to take drastic measures to save your life, but it gets abused. And if you wanted to refine the details of what you were ok with and sign a modified consent, you would be greeted with a lot of resistence and might even encouraged to go elsewhere.

I do almost wish I had a home birth, but with my son's collapsed lung, it made me very glad I was in the hospital.

 

[PeanutBean]

It's pretty different between the States and the UK. I would be pretty terrified giving birth in the US! We have own crap but way way less of it because of the NHS which totally changes the way medicine is practised here. The biggest change is having midwives as the first point of contact and caregiver for normal birth. Doctors are generally only involved when there are complications.

 

[Lightworker]

Right, but because you are in a different 'state' while in labor, its like they assume you can't make decisions.

I have to add that I had a VERY good hospital in regards to respecting my wishes. I didn't ever get any rude comments from the nurses or catch any hint of malice/judgement for my choices.

It doesn't help that they basically have you sign a waiver when you check in that makes whatever happens basically legal. I understand they need it because if you are bleeding out and dying and unconsicous, they may have to take drastic measures to save your life, but it gets abused. And if you wanted to refine the details of what you were ok with and sign a modified consent, you would be greeted with a lot of resistence and might even encouraged to go elsewhere.

I do almost wish I had a home birth, but with my son's collapsed lung, it made me very glad I was in the hospital.

Ooops think I worded my post wrong, what I meant by being in a "different state" was just that you are that much more vulnerable, and it makes it easier for the medics to take advantage of you.

I was having a debate in my head (sad I know)..about how birth has stopped being the natural, normal event it once was, you know when women in the fields would just slink off quietly under a tree, give birth, and carry on. Its now some major deal, and I was wondering if going back to the way it used to would be better, but on the other hand, I know in Africa, where I am from, lots of women die during childbirth due to causes that would be easily preventable had they had the correct medical assistance.

Its hard to come to any definite conclusions for me, and I know for my next LO, a homebirth is more tempting than what it was before, but I am still not 100% sure, only because there is still an element of security for me, provided by a hospital birth. I'm finding it hard to draw a balance lol

 

[PegLeg2na]

I think the main problem is we've been brainwashed to think that birth is NOT a natural process, that without doctors, assistance, instruments, drugs, and intervention a safe birth is impossible. "The Business of Being Born" opened my eyes to this and has caused me to research more in-depth things like birth-trauma (still on the fence for whether or not it's "rape"), PPD, PTSD, C-sections, induced labors...Thanks OP for this article

What really irked me were all the comments..and I read about 300 of them...telling the women they're wimps and need to suck it up, it's "normal" to be treated roughly and their wishes and protests to be ignored, and that they're over-exaggerating. The truth is pregnant women are taken advantage of, their rights are abused, and the birth is about making it convenient for the doctor, not letting a women birth naturally, on her own terms. One comment on this article absolutely disgusted me: it was a L&D nurse who said that doctors will order, "Pit to distress" meaning they will order the pitossin (labor-inducing drug) upped until it causes fetal distress so that an emergency C-section is necessary. WTF. This is NOT RIGHT. I'm so afraid I'm going to be bullied when I give birth and I can only hope my OH will stick up for me. Even though I'm vocal enough and don't like to be pushed around, when the baby's safety comes into play, what mother wouldn't panic? This makes me so mad. The only reasons I'm giving birth in a hospital are because I've never given birth before and I may have an underlying condition that needs to be monitored. If not for that, I definitely wouldn't be.

But how can we change this if women believe it's "normal"??

 

[lisaf]

Lightworker - I understand what you meant about the vulnerability.. I was saying that the medical profession often bullies because they figure women aren't in their right minds. And in SOME cases, I can see why a woman who is in pain and afraid might be more afraid of pain and not realize/comprehend the risk to her baby for choosing one option over the other. If her baby ends up injured as a result, she may regret not making a different choice.

PegLeg - the comments on there pissed me off too... the article was talking about how traumatizing it really was and that its wrong to tell women its 'normal' and 'deal with it' and 'you got a healthy baby, didn't you' etc.
I chose a hospital birth because I knew if something went wrong (even if the results would have been no better in the hospital), I would never forgive myself.
Funny though, the most traumatic part about my birth was my son's collapsed lung and NICU stay. He had a really rough transition but ended up pinking up without any medical intervention. He was in the NICU because he was more susceptible to re-traumatizing the lung which can be dangerous. He ended up with no other problems and just healed up fine. If I had given birth at home, it might have been just as bad, but they might have just assumed he had a rough transition and I would have gotten to keep him with me and things would have turned out the same and I wouldn't have to deal with all the results of having my son not with me after he was born.
BUT if he hadn't pinked up, it would have been pretty bad that I was home and not in the hospital. And then I would have been stuck at home recovering while my son was off at the hospital without me.

My friend mentioned her son had trouble breathing at first but ended up ok. Did her son have the same thing only her hospital wasn't as quick to wisk him away and do ex-rays etc?
I do wish my hospital had the ability to monitor him in my room, that would have been the perfect compromise, but they didn't have that available to me

I know I couldn't do it at home next time though.


If they hadn't broken my water and put in an internal monitor, they would have ended up putting my son in distress with the pitocin. They had it dialed up way higher than needed because they couldn't tell without the internal monitor.

 

[mrs_park]

Very interesting and I'm inclined to agree. I had a horrible labour ending in emcs and still to this day feel upset and traumatized by it. I was constantly reminded that 'it was all worth it, look at your son' which only added guilt to the feelings I was already experience. I now understand that you can love you child but not neccissarily love the way they entered the world.

I still fromtime to time feel like I need to talk to someone or complain to the hospital but I then think maybe I'm just over reacting, was it really that bad? Iykwim...

 

[lisaf]

I know how you feel! I felt so guilty for being upset at my guy being in the NICU... all I saw around me were very tiny sick babies. Then there was my big almost 10lb baby who was healthy as can be really. We even got to take him home the day I discharged which was great.
I still feel so robbed of those first few days with him. Our breastfeeding got off to a really rocky start as a result too which just made the first several weeks awful. JUST the other day I suddenly realized that even though his first meal was breastmilk/colostrum that I had pumped, that I wasn't even there to give it to him.
I kept having flash-backs to it all and re-living the moments in my head. DH and I still talk about it because he was so traumatized by seeing them do so much stuff to our baby and have him still not breathing well and leaving me behind to follow our son to the NICU.

Having PPD doesn't really help any.

 

[Quackquack99]

I don't like using the term rapeas rape is horrific. I hated my birth experience but I wouldn't compare it to rape. The outcome of rape is devastating, regardless of how a baby enters the world, majority of mothers still feel an amount of love. Yet the consequences of rape is never hopeful. I know a few people who have been raped and then had traumatic birth experiences and I don't think the two are comparable

 

[lisaf]

The comments below the article are mixed, but there are several women who have been raped/sexually assaulted who say that certain mistreatments during labor ARE just as bad and devastating.
A loss of control over your body, having things done to you against your wishes, even being held down... there ARE some factors in SOME birth traumas that are frighteningly similar to what is traumatic about rape.

Not all birth traumas would qualify for that label, but some do seem to deserve that title.

 

[Quackquack99]

I haven't been raped, but I have been sexually assaulted when I was much younger. I can understand what you are saying as some things in birth are violating but the difference in labour, we can decline almost everything so we have a choice. When someone gets raped (hate that word) there isn't any choice at all. That is a major difference, it took the medical team about 15 mins to convince me that a c section was the safest possible way out for summer.

 

[lisaf]

I think most women are given a choice in regards to labor options. From the stories in that article and even some I was reading in the comments though, sometimes women were screaming 'no, stop' and they were just held down while stuff was done to them that they did not agree to.

IF it was a lifesaving measure that they had no time to hesistate on, then that should have been explained afterwards and support given afterwards for dealing with what happened. Some of the stuff described was not life saving attempts at all, some wasn't even necessary and some could have been delayed until pain medication was given or explanations/permission obtained.

I don't think all birth traumas are like that, but when the choice IS taken away without good reason, then I do see the correlation.

 

[Quackquack99]

That shouldn't happen, I always thought that health care professional need consent to do anything. I would seek legal action if that happened to me. That choice should always be there but unlike rape (still hate that word) the choice will never be there.