I don't agree with this ....

[staybeautiful]

You aren't the only person here ticking.clock, there are a lot of girls here "on the fence" who still believe that formula is equal in terms of ingredients or who believe Aptamil is the "closest to break milk" because of advertising.

Surely aptamil or any other formula is 'closet to breast milk' because its either BF or FF therefore FF is the only other thing to breast milk. Therefore I do agree with that statement. It wouldn't be allowed otherwise. Weather you agree or not it's the only alternative to breast milk therefore it's got to the closet available. It never mentions being the same.

I think the point there was referencing claims that formula manufacturers used to put on packaging - Aptamil specifically put that they were 'closest to breast milk' on their packaging. Other companies put different things. The article below (Daily Mail, 2007, when companies were banned from putting nutritional claims on formula packaging) gives some examples of the things companies used to say to make consumers favour their product more than their competitors.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-441566/Baby-milk-firms-told-drop-nutrition-claims.html

In response to your second post personally, I'd say that formula is 'the best alternative' to breast milk rather than 'the closest thing to'.

I have to disagree, there are better alternatives than mass produced formula. Wet nursing or donor milk being the next best thing. In fact there is a list (I have a vague feeling it is WHO or UNICEF related) which shows formula is around the 4th alernative after donor milk and even homemade formula

Yeah, I've seen the WHO list, and it goes: Breast milk straight from the breast, breast milk from a cup or bottle, Donated breast milk and THEN formula - but for the sake of simplifying things, I class the first three as the baby still getting breast milk so all as good as each other but with varying levels of convenience.

 

[XJessicaX]

I can't believe that this has been going on for days! Surely we have enough stresses in everyday life without spending time debating on the net?!

Who said it was stressful? It's a conversation that has stayed really tame and constructive and people that are still interested in it are still participating. It's easy to skip over if it isn't your thing. It's not like we are debating so loud you can't hear the other posts about vaginal discharge and growth scans.

 

[Clarabell543]

I can't believe that this has been going on for days! Surely we have enough stresses in everyday life without spending time debating on the net?!

Who said it was stressful? It's a conversation that has stayed really tame and constructive and people that are still interested in it are still participating. It's easy to skip over if it isn't your thing. It's not like we are debating so loud you can't hear the other posts about vaginal discharge and growth scans.

lol very good point...............

 

[patooti]

Your missing my point.......

I'm not against BF or FF, I have said that the BEST feeding method is one that makes mum and baby happy, but the info for BOTH should be given

Not missing the point, I don't think. Just don't agree. The BEST source of food and comfort and immune support for a baby is to be breast fed. This is true whether mom is happy with that or not. Some women aren't able or don't want to do that and that is their choice. An alternative exists that means these kids get nutrition that is not too bad and most get by just fine with it. There are health costs to babies and even some deaths (this has recently been quantified in a study) but for the vast majority it is fine.

I get what you are saying and understand you but honestly the increased pushing of breast feeding is, in many cases helpful.

Health care providers in baby friendly hospitals definitely help with ffing once bfing has been tried if it means baby is not thriving without supplementation. They just don't discuss it as an option before bfing has even been attempted (even just a day of bfing is beneficial)

We aren't surprised when docs etc don't provide you info on smoking or drinking as choice to deal with stress but they will help you quit. Choosing to smoke when stressed is a choice many people make And they feel it helps them but it doesn't mean we can or should promote cigs for relaxation or have docs suggest this and discuss this option to healthy non smokers. This may sound like a silly comparison but in my grand Mother's time her doc DID encourage her to smoke for her nerves. Times change as we get more info on risks and benefits.

I agree ticking.clock, there should be support for both BF and FF moms.

I bolded one part of your reply patooti, and I have to say it would be helpful IF more women were helped by MWs and nurses in the hospital once baby's arrived instead of ignored or rush-helped. It's in no way helpful to continue to push something and then not follow up when there are difficulties, and for many women BFing isn't nearly as easy as it would seem. That's where the support needs to lie, the after care.

Now, in the cases of moms who want to FF from birth or BFing isn't possible or working, I believe moms shouldn't feel silly for asking questions about FFing. I know I did in the hospital and the nicest nurse there was happy to answer my question. I simply asked which brand of formula she'd recommend and she told me her experiences with some causing more babies to be gassy so we stayed clear of those. Other than that, I don't recall having any questions. I certainly made up bottles the "wrong" way for a good month or two. Then again, what is the right way? Guess that varies depending on where you live. I simply follow the instructions on the box to a tee. The Cool Twister has made making bottles up fresh completely a breeze. I can now make up bottles with my eyes closed probably but I know the first weeks I had some questions here and there, sure!

And patooti, I really think it's a poor example to say doctors don't offer such advice to stressed individuals to smoke so why would they offer advice for FFing. I don't get this comparison at all to be honest. There's nothing wrong with FFing. I remember the first appointment with my daughter's pediatrician when she was around 3 weeks old. She asked how I'm feeding her - I replied very sadly, with formula. She sensed I wasn't feeling so amazing about having switched completely in the past days and told me, "Well hey, FF babies get on just fine too!" and moved on. I felt a ton better with such an attitude as opposed to getting a talking to. FF is not the end of the world. No one should be made to feel pressured or guilty. Both breastmilk and formula are perfectly suitable forms of nutrition for baby, period.

If you HAVE to FF you shouldn't feel guilty, EVER, I won't, that's what formula is there for.

But I just don't agree that the sentence in bold is true. IMO, the evidence (when you look at it overall, not in terms of single baby anecdotes) formula is a suitable and potentially life saving alternative in the event that you can't breast feed. But I suspect in many places that most people don't yet feel that way. The simple fact that there are people out there that choose to FF from minute 1 (skipping colostrum even) because they want to use bottles so that fathers can bond with baby means, to me, that MORE, not less education and encouragement on BF is desperately needed and that we need a more baby and woman friendly world to do this in. IMO health care pros need to continue to advocate for breast milk so that people see it as a good alternative when necessary but at the same time raise the thresh hold for what necessary means. That, and not more help with bottle feeding, IMO is what we desperately need.

I agree that some places the support for BFing is appalling and I think it is a REAL problem that there are places that push BFing but then give crap and useless advice. I've seen people I love fail at BFing because of this, but to be fair they didn't really take advantage of any other source of help than the untrained nurses at the hospital. That was their choice and it wasn't my place to say anything about that at the time, it's hard enough being a new mom. But in reality there are a lot of things you can do things for yourself like line up LLL support before birth, go to a class before birth and if you have emotional issues with a baby using your breasts to feed you can seek counselling. I'm really lucky I guess that here in NZ it is actually pretty good in terms of the support we get.

But just because crap advice is available doesn't mean it's a good idea to "support all choices" and reinforce the status quo. I just don't agree with that. I don't suspect I ever will but I'd need to see some really new arguments and points of view to "get" that - I'm all ears though if these exist.

 

[Saphira]

If you HAVE to FF you shouldn't feel guilty, EVER, I won't, that's what formula is there for.

I just feel no one should feel guilty regardless of how they came to feed their child with formula.

I agree that some places the support for BFing is appalling and I think it is a REAL problem that there are places that push BFing but then give crap and useless advice. I've seen people I love fail at BFing because of this, but to be fair they didn't really take advantage of any other source of help than the untrained nurses at the hospital. That was their choice and it wasn't my place to say anything about that at the time, it's hard enough being a new mom. But in reality there are a lot of things you can do things for yourself like line up LLL support before birth, go to a class before birth and if you have emotional issues with a baby using your breasts to feed you can seek counselling. I'm really lucky I guess that here in NZ it is actually pretty good in terms of the support we get.

True, you could go to classes and support groups before baby's born, but in my case that wouldn't have changed a thing. When baby's there it's all you and you either succeed or fail to and when you're left with a screaming baby too frustrated to try and latch for the 50th time you tend to get desperate to get food in them. No pre-course could have solved the problems we had. I needed help when my baby and I were struggling but instead the midwife who came for home visits was rushed to leave and never stayed longer than 10mins. She showed me a position I could try to BF in and was out the door while my daughter started freaking out so I had my husband go and make yet another bottle. She was instantly calmed and dozed off to sleep. I feel so relieved giving her bottles. BFing attempts were stress pure for me and have unfortunately left a lot of bad memories and I'm not sure if I could go through with it again although I'm keeping my mind open.

I know there are many different opinions on this but in the end I just feel all moms should be respected and seen as equal regardless of how their baby's fed. The pressure felt by many is all too common. Sure, some hold their head up and march on if BFing didn't work out or simply wasn't for them, but I truly don't believe this is the majority. That's the problem I see - many feel saddened and guilt-ridden by their choice or lack of it. That's what needs to change, in my opinion. Support on both sides is needed.

 

[PepsiChic]

You could say the same about BF! If its so natural why do they have BF councillors/classes/info from mw??

isnt pregnancy natural? birth too? yet thanks to advanced technology and people being trained to specialise with both these things, when a woman is pregnant and suffers complicatons, or goes into labour and there is an emergency, they assist to deal with the situation and the % of fetus/newborn deaths due to these things has decreased significantly.

Yes breastfeeding is a "natural" thing to do...but when our bodies struggle to function normally, or we do something wrong, we have specialists to turn to to assist with doing it correctly.

When babies are bottle fed formula...theres really not much you need in the way of help, formula tins explain how to make a bottle correctly and how long to store them for, thats the basics, if you DO need more information all you have to do is ASK......my boobs however dont come with printed instructions on the side telling me how to latch my child on correctly, but again if I need help all I have to do is ASK.


As I said before, the hospitals here in the US tend to provide plenty of formula and tins to take home with you, even if you tell them your BF. You get 10 minutes with someone who tells you the basics of how to breastfeed...which is the equivilent of reading a tin of formula to know how to make a bottle....anything after that is upto you to go find out.



Formula is there for companies to make money. Its real purpose should be to provide a back-up solution to those who are unable to breastfeed. not to make life easier or to fill the pockets of greedy companies who honestly couldnt care less about you or your child.

 

[dontlikeit]

I don't see anything wrong, It's all to encourage breast milk, not bottle milk. Why should they encourage formula while breast milk is the best option. Nobody should make anyone feel guilty for choosing not to breastfeed but there is nothing wrong that breastfeed is encouraged.

 

[patooti]

If you HAVE to FF you shouldn't feel guilty, EVER, I won't, that's what formula is there for.

I just feel no one should feel guilty regardless of how they came to feed their child with formula.

I agree that some places the support for BFing is appalling and I think it is a REAL problem that there are places that push BFing but then give crap and useless advice. I've seen people I love fail at BFing because of this, but to be fair they didn't really take advantage of any other source of help than the untrained nurses at the hospital. That was their choice and it wasn't my place to say anything about that at the time, it's hard enough being a new mom. But in reality there are a lot of things you can do things for yourself like line up LLL support before birth, go to a class before birth and if you have emotional issues with a baby using your breasts to feed you can seek counselling. I'm really lucky I guess that here in NZ it is actually pretty good in terms of the support we get.

True, you could go to classes and support groups before baby's born, but in my case that wouldn't have changed a thing. When baby's there it's all you and you either succeed or fail to and when you're left with a screaming baby too frustrated to try and latch for the 50th time you tend to get desperate to get food in them. No pre-course could have solved the problems we had. I needed help when my baby and I were struggling but instead the midwife who came for home visits was rushed to leave and never stayed longer than 10mins. She showed me a position I could try to BF in and was out the door while my daughter started freaking out so I had my husband go and make yet another bottle. She was instantly calmed and dozed off to sleep. I feel so relieved giving her bottles. BFing attempts were stress pure for me and have unfortunately left a lot of bad memories and I'm not sure if I could go through with it again although I'm keeping my mind open.

I know there are many different opinions on this but in the end I just feel all moms should be respected and seen as equal regardless of how their baby's fed. The pressure felt by many is all too common. Sure, some hold their head up and march on if BFing didn't work out or simply wasn't for them, but I truly don't believe this is the majority. That's the problem I see - many feel saddened and guilt-ridden by their choice or lack of it. That's what needs to change, in my opinion. Support on both sides is needed.

Of course you deserve respect. It sounds like you deserved better help than you got as well. There is no need to put other people's opinions on you and turn that into guilt. Wanting to make it better for the next woman doesn't somehow change how you should feel about your own experience. That's for you. No one get's to decide how you should feel about yourself, no midwife, no doctor, no other mother. They can have all the opinions they want it doesn't change anything.

I just don't think we need to encourage midwives or health care pros to make sure in advance that no one will be bothered at all when they encountered nursing issues and find they can not or do not want to continue. Nursing is hard work and if we constantly get the incorrect message that formula is just as good or a really close and comparable option fewer people will try to work hard at BFing and that's not good for the health of babies.

But when you needed it, formula was there. It wasn't necessary for you to have had that all lined up and taught before hand, IMO. We all know it's there, honestly. I mean I'll be disappointed if I can't breast feed but if I'm being honest, any insistence on help with it in advance is just insurance against my own emotional baggage and truly, since I'm a big girl, that's my own responsibility. It's up to me to make sure I do enough so that I can feel good about what happened in the end. When it comes to it, if I'm in that position, I'll send DH to the store buy a bottle and some formula, and I'll follow the instructions and go for it and I won't apologise. I don't care if strangers or even people I know do or do not respect me. I still won't apologise and I don't expect anyone else should need to either but it's not an excuse for pretending something is equivalent when it isn't.

 

[Saphira]

Of course you deserve respect. It sounds like you deserved better help than you got as well. There is no need to put other people's opinions on you and turn that into guilt. Wanting to make it better for the next woman doesn't somehow change how you should feel about your own experience. That's for you. No one get's to decide how you should feel about yourself, no midwife, no doctor, no other mother. They can have all the opinions they want it doesn't change anything.

I just don't think we need to encourage midwives or health care pros to make sure in advance that no one will be bothered at all when they encountered nursing issues and find they can not or do not want to continue. Nursing is hard work and if we constantly get the incorrect message that formula is just as good or a really close and comparable option fewer people will try to work hard at BFing and that's not good for the health of babies.

But when you needed it, formula was there. It wasn't necessary for you to have had that all lined up and taught before hand, IMO. We all know it's there, honestly. I mean I'll be disappointed if I can't breast feed but if I'm being honest, any insistence on help with it in advance is just insurance against my own emotional baggage and truly, since I'm a big girl, that's my own responsibility. It's up to me to make sure I do enough so that I can feel good about what happened in the end. When it comes to it, if I'm in that position, I'll send DH to the store buy a bottle and some formula, and I'll follow the instructions and go for it and I won't apologise. I don't care if strangers or even people I know do or do not respect me. I still won't apologise and I don't expect anyone else should need to either but it's not an excuse for pretending something is equivalent when it isn't.

I'm a big girl too but not everyone deals with emotions the same. Not everyone prepares ahead of time for what could become of something you wish for. I certainly didn't and learned my lesson from it. Wish I could have picked myself up easier at the time but for a good half a year there I was sulking. Just makes me sad so many go through the same emotional pain because of pressure from the outside yet little readily available help for those who tried and couldn't succeed.

But, I truly do believe formula is perfectly suitable nutrition for babies. I've watched my daughter thrive on it for the past year. I disagree it's not as good for their health if they're FF, which I'm replying to the bold part of your reply. So much more is attributed to their overall health and wellbeing than BFing working out and yet so much stress and emphasis is still put on it over and over. I don't fully understand that as it simply won't be what ends up being "best" for all moms and babies.

 

[sevenofnine]

I can't believe that this has been going on for days! Surely we have enough stresses in everyday life without spending time debating on the net?!

Who said it was stressful? It's a conversation that has stayed really tame and constructive and people that are still interested in it are still participating. It's easy to skip over if it isn't your thing. It's not like we are debating so loud you can't hear the other posts about vaginal discharge and growth scans.

lol very good point...............

 

[Tasha]

Interesting debate, that has gone really smoothly.

I FF my first two no issues there. I then BF my fourth and the mw's were pretty awful to me, at one point shouting at me cos I have flat nipples I had no idea how to help flat nipples, and tbh I still dont we just muddled through until six weeks. I then was combi-feeding and this is how I know the advertising works because when I asked about strting to combi-feed to the HV a) she gave me no encouragement to carry on BF and b) she told me to go for aptimel as it was closest to formula

 

[Bean66]

We're very lucky where I live and we have access to breast feeding 'cafes' most days with lactation consultants. You can go in pregnancy or when baby is born.

Unfortunately it isn't widely published in some areas.

 

[pinklightbulb]

In Australia all advertising of stage one formula is banned-- TV, magazines, the lot. No promotions allowed on it, no store points for it, nothing. I think this is a positive thing. It doesn't need more promoting here as the BF rates are so dismally low even with all the bans and how expensive it is. It's seen as the easier option, so of course more mums are going to elect to FF off the bat as there's no real work involved. in getting started and learning how to do it "correctly".

However, stage two milks are able to be advertised and promoted, which really defeats the purpose of banning it for stage one as all the advertising for just "formula", never mind the stage, is still out there. So it's pointless really. But at least it's a start. I couldn't be happier for all formula advertising and promotion to be banned, but I know it will never happen. I truly think formula companies are awful and the way they sneak about trying to promote themselves without being caught out disgusts me.

They will lie because they want money, simple as. I don't understand how anyone can willingly play into their hands when choosing to FF off the bat. That's money these companies do not deserve a cent of. It's honestly sickening to me that formula is seen as better or equal to breastmilk because of their subliminal messaging and even blatant advertising of false facts.

There is not enough emphasis on BF being the best option for baby, and in most cases for Mum as well. Nobody stops to think that there *are* benefits to the mother when she is BFing her baby. There are. Plenty of them. It isn't just baby who benefits from getting the milk that is biologically designed for them-- mothers do also and this is not looked at enough by many people who push formula.

I'm all for woman's rights to choose how they want to feed their baby but I won't pretend to understand how FFing by choice can ever be a good thing for anyone while these formula companies are getting richer and richer and babies are not getting the milk that is specifically designed for them all because mother doesn't want to be "pressured" into BFing

 

[NoodleSnack]

I don't understand why promoting breastfeeding = shoving it down your throat. Breastfeeding is the best way to feed your baby, so it should be promoted. By not giving formula to new moms when they ask for it for no medical reason, they are encouraging breastfeeding.

They're not saying there's no formula allowed in the hospital and if you want to formula feed you must have your baby elsewhere. THAT would be shoving it down your throat.

If you want to FF you are free to do so, just buy your own before you have your baby. Why is that such a problem?

It's when it goes pass promotion into something else. I can see not allowing advertisement as equivalent to no advertising for certain medicines to protect consumers, not providing formula to FF mums at birth since BF mum aren't automatically given it either, but not allowing certain healthcare professionals to talk about it prior to birth, making companies print "breast is best" on their tin and websites (it's not on them to put out that message, if the government wants it out, put it on a bus or posters), no information leaflets etc.

We know epidural increases the risk of interventions, imagine if there's a campaign to suppress information about it so women would choose "natural labour" to the extent that's being done with BF and FF. While we may still be "free" to get them, the actions and the policies do have an effect on many people.

Honestly though, the info is there. It's on the tin. Pick a brand and go for it. It's all going to be fine. If there are allergy issues down the road, the doctors will help you with it at that point but what prenatal advice on FF is actually needed?

What's in the the formula (if they can go into details about different types of breast milk, they can also tell us about the ingredients in formula and why they are important for baby)? How to store them and equipment? Is it a good idea to use those dispenser thing - would it cause contamination? How much should baby have with each feed for each stage? What are the problems baby might have when taking formula? What signs and symptoms to look for? What type of nipple/bottle do most parents find best for their baby?

Most of us know how to breastfeed - put the baby to the breast - but when it comes to doing it, there are much more to know about then simply that, in the same way, saying "it's on the tin" is just inadequate.

 

[patch2006uk]

Most of the answers to those questions, though, will either end up as an advert or so vague they're useless. TBH, I found antenatal BFing support pretty useless last time, too, as funnily enough feeding a newborn isn't the same as holding a teddy bear or doll to your chest

I think it's important to remember that society isn't geared up for breastfeeding. If you get problems with FFing, then older relatives, doctors and the like will be much more likely to have experience of it too and be able to help you. Breastfeeding at the moment is a bit of a lost art. Most women in the past 60 years or so haven't breastfed successfully or for any length of time. If you have a BFing question, the chance of mom or nan being able to help you is slim.

Historically, women didn't need medical help to breastfeed, as anyone who had a baby would be able to help them through the problems. The heath systems now need to make up for this missing generation of knowledge and experience to try and encourage BFing rates. There is no lack of knowledge regarding FFing.

 

[patooti]

I don't understand why promoting breastfeeding = shoving it down your throat. Breastfeeding is the best way to feed your baby, so it should be promoted. By not giving formula to new moms when they ask for it for no medical reason, they are encouraging breastfeeding.

They're not saying there's no formula allowed in the hospital and if you want to formula feed you must have your baby elsewhere. THAT would be shoving it down your throat.

If you want to FF you are free to do so, just buy your own before you have your baby. Why is that such a problem?

It's when it goes pass promotion into something else. I can see not allowing advertisement as equivalent to no advertising for certain medicines to protect consumers, not providing formula to FF mums at birth since BF mum aren't automatically given it either, but not allowing certain healthcare professionals to talk about it prior to birth, making companies print "breast is best" on their tin and websites (it's not on them to put out that message, if the government wants it out, put it on a bus or posters), no information leaflets etc.

We know epidural increases the risk of interventions, imagine if there's a campaign to suppress information about it so women would choose "natural labour" to the extent that's being done with BF and FF. While we may still be "free" to get them, the actions and the policies do have an effect on many people.

Honestly though, the info is there. It's on the tin. Pick a brand and go for it. It's all going to be fine. If there are allergy issues down the road, the doctors will help you with it at that point but what prenatal advice on FF is actually needed?

What's in the the formula (if they can go into details about different types of breast milk, they can also tell us about the ingredients in formula and why they are important for baby)? How to store them and equipment? Is it a good idea to use those dispenser thing - would it cause contamination? How much should baby have with each feed for each stage? What are the problems baby might have when taking formula? What signs and symptoms to look for? What type of nipple/bottle do most parents find best for their baby?

Most of us know how to breastfeed - put the baby to the breast - but when it comes to doing it, there are much more to know about then simply that, in the same way, saying "it's on the tin" is just inadequate.

I'm sure that you can find all that info and more online, from a forum, or formula company websites. Or even from a health professional if BFing has failed. I think it is the setting out from the beginning to FF without even trying BFing that is heavily frowned upon by the medical community and there are well supported reasons for this in terms of health outcomes for babies AND moms. Giving equal attention to both is misleading and makes it seem like there are fewer health consequences than there are actually are.

Also, all of that info on FF can be easily understood when read. Whereas BFing needs coaching, support (emotional, mental and in terms of pain - it almost always is uncomfortable and difficult at first). BFing is NOT about just sticking a baby on a boob and going for it. Not even close. Sure, after it's established, it's like that and way easier than FF, but getting started is hard for babies and moms and a lot of people give up because they never ever expected that to be the case. Waving formula under a stressed mom's nose as an easy escape is like pushing drugs on people in pain. It's just not going to help them get there in the end and it's really really worth it to help them get there. This is the rationale for focusing on BF.

 

[patch2006uk]

I don't think BFing is fundamentally more in need of medical support than any other method of feeding, but society tells us that babies sleep for 3-4 hours between feeds, feed to a schedule, don't fuss, etc. Breastfed babies don't behave like that. Cluster feeds, not wanting to be put down, refusing to sleep anywhere but on mom, crying more, etc. studies show that breastfed babies aren't as 'content' as formula fed babies, but they behave in a way that's natural for human infants and reduces the risks of things like SIDS (frequent waking and less deep sleep is thought to be one of the protective things. Babies shouldn't sleep like a log for 8-12 hours by week 2, it's not natural)

A lot of breastfeeding support is encouraging women that babies aren't like you see on TV. Society expects babies to be formula fed and behave that way. Breastfed babies do behave differently, and it's often perceived as a problem. Family members telling you it can't be right for LO to be feeding again so soon. Being told that a bottle will help them sleep longer. Being told that your supply can't be very good because LO is always feeding. It's nonsense, but it's what society expects a baby to be like.

 

[NoodleSnack]

Most of the answers to those questions, though, will either end up as an advert or so vague they're useless. TBH, I found antenatal BFing support pretty useless last time, too, as funnily enough feeding a newborn isn't the same as holding a teddy bear or doll to your chest

I think it's important to remember that society isn't geared up for breastfeeding. If you get problems with FFing, then older relatives, doctors and the like will be much more likely to have experience of it too and be able to help you. Breastfeeding at the moment is a bit of a lost art. Most women in the past 60 years or so haven't breastfed successfully or for any length of time. If you have a BFing question, the chance of mom or nan being able to help you is slim.

Historically, women didn't need medical help to breastfeed, as anyone who had a baby would be able to help them through the problems. The heath systems now need to make up for this missing generation of knowledge and experience to try and encourage BFing rates. There is no lack of knowledge regarding FFing.

I have a lot of the same questions about BF, they were answered, and I don't find the answer pointless.

There's no lack of knowledge regarding BF as well, the problem is access to them. So when the people qualified to give out information about BF and FF either can't or doesn't have the time to do it, then it affects people in the same way. FFing parents just have to make do because they have nothing else to fall back on.

I can find information about BF online as I have found for FF. The difference is that I can ask about BF with my MW and discuss them in the ante-natal class but not FF. There are more helplines for BF as well. Maybe that's still not enough to help a lot of women with BF, but it's no reason to try to suppress FF.

So far in this thread, we have mums that claim that FF is easier than BF and those that claim BF is easier, so obviously there's not a consensus that one is easier than the other. From my own experience, FF mums have problems that they have work through on their own as well. My SIL have supply problems and FF her children. Her second one ended up constipated because the milk contained too much iron. No one was there to tell her, so she just worried if there's something wrong with her baby for a while. After all, she followed the instruction on the tin, and all formula are the same right? So it can't be that. There are parents who have to change bottles and milk again and again because their babies have reflux or can't tolerate certain formula. There is a minimum standard for formula, but they aren't all the same. Do most people have access to the information about what's in the formula? They don't unless they have the means and time to research it themselves. There are parents who worries about whether they are giving their babies too much or too little, as there are BF parents who worries about the same thing. Why is one parent's concerns deserve answer that another parent doesn't just because we want to push one thing over another?

 

[NoodleSnack]

I don't think BFing is fundamentally more in need of medical support than any other method of feeding, but society tells us that babies sleep for 3-4 hours between feeds, feed to a schedule, don't fuss, etc. Breastfed babies don't behave like that. Cluster feeds, not wanting to be put down, refusing to sleep anywhere but on mom, crying more, etc. studies show that breastfed babies aren't as 'content' as formula fed babies, but they behave in a way that's natural for human infants and reduces the risks of things like SIDS (frequent waking and less deep sleep is thought to be one of the protective things. Babies shouldn't sleep like a log for 8-12 hours by week 2, it's not natural)

A lot of breastfeeding support is encouraging women that babies aren't like you see on TV. Society expects babies to be formula fed and behave that way. Breastfed babies do behave differently, and it's often perceived as a problem. Family members telling you it can't be right for LO to be feeding again so soon. Being told that a bottle will help them sleep longer. Being told that your supply can't be very good because LO is always feeding. It's nonsense, but it's what society expects a baby to be like.

I don't have that pre-conception of FF or BF at all, can't say that I've seen many women who have had babies have those mis-conceptions either. I've seen FF babies wake up at all sort of time and feed more or less some days. I think those are misconception of babies, not about feeding methods. I certainly don't expect my baby to sleep 8-12 hours straight at 2 weeks whether he's FF or BF.

 

[patch2006uk]

There is absolutely a lack of knowledge on breastfeeding. Head over to the breastfeeding section and read some of the truly shocking advice given out by HVs, Doctors and midwives. Properly trained BF supporters are few and far between and are often private. If you haven't ever tried to seek BFing support, then you won't know how bad it can be. I was lucky as in my area we have a breastfeeding advice service set up (because our rates are so dismally low), but even they could only visit you once a week for 30 mins and had to sign you off by a month PP, even if you were still struggling.

I don't think anyone has said that breastfeeding is easy, either. Establishing breastfeeding is truly one of the hardest things I've ever done. Once it's established, it's the easiest thing in the world, but it's mentally, physically and emotionally draining. Formula feeding is fundamentally more work, but easier. Anyone can fill a bottle with milk. A bottle doesn't need sleep, or get sore. You don't have supply worries if LO is still fussy after finishing a bottle.

With breastfeeding, it's learning a whole new skill at the time when your body has just undergone a massive physical challenge (pregnancy and birth), you're getting less sleep than you've ever got before in your life, and your hormones are all screwed up. And only you can do it. You can't give LO to your husband or your parents for the night while you sleep. You are the milk source. It's a very different responsibility from any you've ever had before. This little life totally depends on you and only you.

If you actually encounter problems with FFing once LO is here, then people will help you. Mostly if you encounter problems with breastfeeding, they'll encourage switching to formula. Actual BFing support is incredibly rare. Cheer leading is very common (most women can breastfeed, latch looks 'perfect', it's normal), but someone who actually understands how BFing works and can fix problems, rather than just cheer you on, meaninglessly from the sidelines, is very hard to find.