I need help, bf not going well

[itsnowmyturn]

Basically my daughter is a week old and was born at 37+3, I took her home the day after having her even though she was only feeding for 5 minutes at a time (I thought this was ok) she wudnt latch when born either which the paramedics kept trying to encourage. On Friday we were sent into hospital by my midwife because she had only fed for about 25 minutes in 12 hours and it was taking me an hour to wake her to have a few minutes of feed. Her umbilicus was obviously infected u cud smell it thru her clothes and it was red and pussy, they did a full sepsis screen and swabbed the umbilicus but that swab seems to have been lost. They reswabbed the day after the stump fell off and had already had 4 doses of 3 different antibiotics. They also put an ng tube in here to feed her as by this time she hadn't fed for 12 hours and wasn't rousing at all, barely even cried having a lumbar puncture done.
All results have come bk clear so there's no explanation for any if it and she's still sleepy but obviously not as bad as before. Iv been trying to feed before they give the tube feed but she falls asleep after 3 minutes. Today we decided after her 8am feed to hold off the tube and try on demand, she's had a few feeds of 6 to 8 minutes but most have been 1 to 3 minutes. I asked them to top her up with tube after 7 hours. In 14 hours she has tried feeding 12 times!! I'm exhausted!! I really want to continue bf but if she doesn't feed well tonight I will have to try the bottle instead, I can't keep doing this, but it's making ne feel like I'm giving up too easily n not doing the best thing. But I need to get her home. I just keep getting told it's one of them things n cos she's not physically unwell they won't look into any possible reasons for this. We will be discharged on Wednesday so that's the only reason I'm going to give the bottle a go tomorrow n see if she's the same with a bottle, if she is I don't no what they expect me to do, i can't feed her this often, I'm shattered

 

[itsnowmyturn]

I forgot to add that there is no issue with my supply, I have been pumping while in hospital to give her ebm thru the tube and the first express because she had been so long without feeding and my milk had just come in I got 150ml, last night because I hadn't expressed for a few hours n she barely fed I got 110 and earlier I hadn't expressed for about 10 hours n she had only fed a bit n I got 120ml

 

[laurarebecca1]

12 times in 14 hours is normal in a newborn!

My 8 week old, still wants to feed 16-18 times in 24 hours (including sleeping 12 hours at night with just 3 feeds! And sometimes she's satisfied with 7 mins and sometimes wants 30 mins!

Don't give up mama!!

Also it did take me/us a good few weeks to get her feeding well!

 

[gingmg]

My LO fed every two hours until last week (he is 9 weeks). Its exhausting but it gets better. I found he did his best at first if we were having skin to skin time- he was more alert and fed better and longer. I slowly transitioned to sitting up with clothes on over the course of his first two weeks. I'm so glad your LO is OK and doing better! What a scare you have been through! Hang in there!

 

[cflower04]

My LO is 27 weeks old and still feeds every 2 hours night and day... Completely normal!

 

[mara16jade]

Unfortunately, newborns do feed very, very often.

Is she having trouble with latching? Its very possible that she's trying to feed often because she's hungry, and then she has a hard time latching and tires herself out before she gets a good feed...which then leaves her somewhat still hungry, causing her to wake more often. See the cycle?

Try to get her nice a full. And yes, I know you've been trying. But have you tried a nipple shield? They're not just for nipple problems, they're for latching issues as well. I'd give it a try and see if she's sleeping/eating better from getting better feeds.

And before a bunch of people jump on the "nipple shields are bad". I was told repeatedly I didn't need one, don't use one, blah blah blah and I said screw it. Its either I try one last thing or give up. Well, I used a nipple shield for a few weeks (and then on the random occasion I was super engorged and he couldn't latch) and here we are 6+ months later still going strong and my nipple shield has been long since retired.

 

[itsnowmyturn]

Thanks for the input, she is improving each day, no one was happy with her feeding, midwifes, nurses or drs, she was losing weight because of it, she had originally lost 12oz in 4 days (I no newborns lose weight but they weren't too happy about the amount)
The now thnk that as she didn't grow properly in the last 5 weeks of the pregnancy and born just inside 'term' that she is acting more like a premature baby and that's why she's been so difficult to get her to feed. Her latch is good and she drinks well it's just the length of time she's on isn't enough. They also think because of the infection she was set bk a few days in terms of feeding development.
I wudnt mind every 2 hours but it was every hour sometimes more, she obviously wasn't filling her tummy then needed feeding again really soon

 

[noon_child]

Oh it's good to know it is improving. I think you just need to put all that has happened over the past week behind you and start again as if you were taking your newborn home with you for the first time. She will get tired quickly, as breastfeeding is so comfortable and comforting, so feeding her skin to skin and giving her a little jiggle, tickle, blow when her sucking slows down should help extend her feeds. A bad latch can also tire them out more quickly but there is no reason to assume she isn't feeding unless there are any red flags. Things to watch out for are:

You want 1-2 or more poopy nappies and 7ish or more wet in any 24hr period
Once birth weight is regained you want around about 150g on average weight gain per week (weighing too often will show gain but not if the gain is good/poor over time).
You want short periods of alertness, getting more alert as she gets older.
You want your nipples to come out of the feed looking symmetrical, not squashed or angled.
Discomfort and tenderness is common, but pain to the point where you want to give up breastfeeding may indicate a problem that you need some help to fix.

Even full term babies can act how you describe. My LO was born 40+3 at 5lb6oz, and I have sheets of paper where I wrote down how long she drank for and whether she cried or I had to wake her and all it says is
"Nappy change to wake, very sleepy. Fed for 2mins, fell asleep. Wouldn't settle in basket,rooting, tried to latch again, fed 1min, fell asleep. Tickled awake, fed 1minute, pulled off breast refused to relatch." over and over again. The midwives were telling me she wasn't putting on enough weight but not how to fix it. I was feeding every 2hrs or more and her growth was very slow. I was lucky I got the support of a breastfeeding support group run by a very knowledgable Health Visitor and I also used LLL and NCT lactation consultants who came to my home. Is there any support in your area?

 

[itsnowmyturn]

She does latch well and I assume she's getting a good drink because her sucking is good and can hear her swallow. She manages up to 10 minutes but never longer before she's back asleep and I can't wake her.
I did write the original post when I was in hospital with her and she wasn't feeding well at all, probably due to infection. I can't really judge her nappies at the moment because she's still on antibiotics so thats affecting her bowels and because it makes them super watery I can't tell if they are wet from wee or not but she does have the occasional wee while I'm changing her so not too concerned there
Midwife weighed her today n she has lost a little bit again, not much but I had hoped for a gain, she said let her drink as much as she wants for her top ups (the hospital told me to give her a set amount) so I put 80ml in her bottle which she drank then sicked it back up, I no bringing milk bk up is normal but its more than she was laid down and held it in her mouth, I had to sit her upright to get her to spit it out, don't want her doing that after her night time feeds.
She has only had 3 bottle top ups today the rest has been breastfeeding, hoping to reduce that down to just 2 bottles by Monday but obviously not at the expense of her weight gain.
The midwife agrees that she's probably acting more like a premature baby with her feeding and the infections she had have all probably set her back so we're confident that with a little more time she's bk on breastfeeding fully and now I no she will take both bottle and breast with no nipple confusion daddy can have some feeds and I can go out without a baby attached to me waiting to be fed or have to be bk by a certain time to feed her.
Thanks for the advice pp

 

[noon_child]

She does latch well and I assume she's getting a good drink because her sucking is good and can hear her swallow. She manages up to 10 minutes but never longer before she's back asleep and I can't wake her...

Midwife weighed her today n she has lost a little bit again, not much but I had hoped for a gain, she said let her drink as much as she wants for her top ups (the hospital told me to give her a set amount) so I put 80ml in her bottle which she drank then sicked it back up, I no bringing milk bk up is normal but ...
She has only had 3 bottle top ups today the rest has been breastfeeding, hoping to reduce that down to just 2 bottles by Monday but obviously not at the expense of her weight gain
Thanks for the advice pp

10minutes isn't too bad if she's sucking well and swallowing all that time - better than I was doing! Especially if she is doing it often (9-10 times or more in 24hrs).
She probably socked up because her body told her she'd taken too much. Her tummy is about the size of a ping pong ball now (although if preemie maybe a bit smaller) and that's only about 30ml. Tummies can stretch but if she'd already fed from you she might not have had much space left.

Top ups are a double edged sword like you said - they can help our babies get stronger and have more energy to stay awake but if they fill them up too much they cause feeds to space out too far and your breasts don't get stimulated enough to keep your supply, leading to more top ups. I started supplementing at 6weeks due to slow weight gain but was advised to give between 30-50ml in order not to decrease the frequency of bf.

Then an NCT counsellor suggested (because I was so stressed out and depressed by the cycle of top ups and pumping) that during the periods of the day when she fed well, enthusiastically and stayed awake I should do no top ups at all just bf really frequently. Then I chose one time in the day when she was always hard to wake or latch and gave a bottle with all the combined top ups in it (so about 90-100ml) and then went and did one long pumping session. It meant I was less stressed trying to fit multiple pumping sessions in to the day while also trying to settle a very unsettled baby. It is just about choosing what works for you and your LO

 

[itsnowmyturn]

I say top ups but I'm not giving them at the same time as the breastfeed it's when her feeds get too close together because then I think she's obviously hungry n not had enough so far. I'm trying to hold bk with the bottles because I find it hard to use a hand pump and I'm slowly running out of expressed milk, i have an electric pump on the way so I can stock up on milk yet still give her a good breastfeed, had no problems with that in the hospital with their pumps. If were just at home and not doing anything Im more than happy to spend as much time breastfeeding her as I need to. She had a 15 minute feed this morning (it's amazing what little things get u excited as a parent lol) but then she's brought more bk up,she's still happy and content though, laying kicking around with her eyes open.
Noon child thanks so much for ur help and not being judgemental, I often feel as a first timer that ppl r judging me as clueless and doing things wrong instead of helping, so thanks I appreciate it