Incompetent Cervix - stitch/cerclage - threatened labour

Hi Everyone,

I had my cerlage placed at 14 weeks im now 16 weeks.

I just got back from going to the Early Pregnancy Unit as i started to have whiteish/greenish discharge. I was scanned and my little mans heartbeat is fine! However i was told my swab results from last weeks testing show a very high growth of `Coliform Bacteria` They told me this could be normal but it is normally associated with urinary tract infections. They also said that because i refused to have the speculum exam and do the swab myself that because i swabbed low this showed the results being normal due to this. Sooooo i allowed them to do a speculum exam today - because i felt i had no choice - i need to find out the correct swab results. Im scared as i know women on this thread refuse speculum exams. Does anyone have any advice for me? I feel very scared as now i have to wait another week for results! xx
 
Hi all,
I've been reading all your posts but not had chance to reply.
MommyA - I struggled to get my ic recognised as I'd had a healthy first pregnancy, however I just knew something wasn't right, I lost my mucus plug around 6 weeks, but an abdo scan showed a healthy heartbeat so it was passed off. Then I continually visited my gp, midwife and maternity ward complaining of back passage pressure and copious amounts of mucous, cream coloured discharge. I had another abdo scan at 17 weeks which showed a long, closed cervix so no further action was taken. I didn't get to see my consultant at this point, only a stand in who was vile and laughed at me when I mentioned my concerns about ic and told me to see my midwife. What an idiot he was!

I booked a cervical length scan with a private consulatant and paid for it just to set my mind at rest at 20 weeks as I was due to return to work after the long summer holiday. He noticed immediately that my measurement of 21mm with pressure was borderline and requested that my consultant repeat it 5 days later at my 20 weeks scan. I tried to contact the hospital to request this, they told me that they don't do internal scans routinely , so I insisted and was told to arrive as normal for my scan and they would do it. When I got there they refused, my consultant wasn't on again that day and I had only been booked with the sonographer. The consultant on duty refused to see me until I got REALLY upset, cried and refused to leave until I at least had some advice on whether I should be on rest or not given the demanding nature of my job. The midwife managed, by lying to the consultant, to fit me in. I was then 13mm and funnelling and booked in for a stitch the next day with my actual consultant who was furious that I hadn't been referred to her earlier. Her advice was that the stitch really needs to be in as early as possible, usually around 13 weeks, but by 18 weeks at the latest. She held out little hope for us.

If I hadn't been scanned at that point I was going to return immediately to the private consultant as he promised to make my consultant take action or take me on as his patient in his own NHS hospital.

So, for me, I think the plan you have is a good one, a second opinion as a back up, then of you are not happy you have the choice. But I think you are correct, although i'm no expert, in that the stitch needs to be done sooner, rather than later. What you have described sounds like ic to me, the infection just speeded things up. The brilliant private consultant later asked me how I felt about my own treatment, when I said I was about 80 per cent confident in them, he was disgusted. In his opinion, having confidence in your practioners makes the difficult situation easier to deal with as you know they are doing all they can for you. Perhaps that second opinion will be the better option as you will feel more confident anyway. :hugs:Good luck.

Lynx - your measurements sound great so I wouldn't be worried as your cervix would have shortened by now under the growing pressure. However, I did feel back passage pressure on and off. With hindsight, I felt the pressure, which made me feel like needing a bowel movement and I couldn't walk properly. Then I would have a bm, with huge amounts of creamy discharge coming out, it would take about 3 or 4 wipes to clear it and the pressure would be relieved for a few days, when it would all start again. I imagine the scaffolding of my cervix was gradually giving out, and as it did, there was temporary relief, then the pressure would build again. The abdo scan at 17 weeks did not show any shortening, so my cervix must have been really long, but very weak at the start of the pregnancy. Then the shortening must have been gradual. The most dramatic shortening was from 21mm to 13mm and funnelling within 5 days at 20 weeks. Based on this I don't think you have ic as you would have noticed shortening, and the back passage pressure can be normal. But if you are still worried I would ask for more cervical length monitoring just for your own peace of mind. There's no harm in asking, I wish they had taken me more seriously when I first presented to them.

Sweet pea - keep on trucking! At 27 weeks you have got through the worst, I promise. How you've done it without joining the forum is a miracle. At 22 weeks I was out of my mind with worry, I was hospitalised with an anxiety attack which presented with stroke and heart attack symptoms. You must be made of really stern stuff. Stay strong, you have good stats in your favour now, it would take actual labour to deliver your baby and as long as the stitch holds, then it doesn't matter what the length is. The concern is that dilation may expose the membranes which can cause rupture and begin labour that way, but I would think that would already have happened by now as the stitch would have stirred things up. Although it's far from an ideal scenario, 28 weeks was my huge goal when I was at 22 weeks as the stats for premature babies are much improved. I was recently really humbled by a teenage mum I met at baby group who had her baby at 28 weeks. She had no idea that she was at risk of PTL, and her baby is a very healthy, happy 7 month old. She had some time in NICU, and she was teary eyed as she spoke to me as she was so unprepared for this scenario. I really felt for her, I think she was still in shock, whereas I was grateful to reach this goal as it meant survival. Keep holding on, drinking loads of water and REST. Xxxx

Vasu - great to hear that you're all doing well, she is just beautiful and has a beautiful mum to match. Pregnancy does take it's toll physically, as I keep being told, it just takes time to heal. Have patience xx

Berry blue - you are a star! Full term is marvellous, well done. It's great to be that huge isn't it?! Take care, can't wait to hear your good news xx

Thanks lizzie, I do try to help, but sometimes my knackered out and sleep deprived brain doesn't work in conjunction with my fingers and I type something tactless :wacko:

JulieW - that's brill that you've made it to 34 weeks :happydance:So pleased for you. Please let us know when you've had your
baby, it makes my day to add another baby to the list! Xx
I'm sure there's someone I've missed, I'll check back in again soon. Please take care and keep resting and baking xxx
 
Hi ladies,

So I have been having contractions, which I thought were BH's but they were lasting for hours and I ended up at my doctor today. My cervix is closed beneath the stitch, but on the ultrasound taken only days after my cerclage and 20 week ultrasound (where there was no funneling or beaking seen) my cervix was beaking. Not grossly, but it still was. The doctor didn't seem too considered, she ordered another ultrasound. Said I could start labouring because of the beaking...but can't beak/funnel past the stitch? Is this right?

Baby is very low and causing extreme pressure on my cervix which doesn't help. I am still on modified bed rest, though was told to listen to my body and rest any time there is pressure and still stick to the 1 hour on my feet at a time only rule.

I also have lost parts of my plug, but this wasn't considering to my OB either as she manually looked at my cervix and said it was closed.

I have to say I am pretty upset with her over all, not that that's new....but I was alone with my file today and read it (yes Im nosey..) and saw that a letter from the doctors who delivered Lakai stated very clearly that any future pregnancies I had after him they strongly suggested a cerclage placed before 14 weeks. And that IC was the most likely cause of Lakai's birth. My OB refused to stitch me and said it was unlikely I had an IC.

I am liking just looking for a place to put my frustration over all this. But I have to wonder if things had happened sooner if we would be in this boat?

Anyways, I am curious about a few things...can you funnel/beak past your stitch? And if you do, what then? Am I right in thinking the bigger baby gets that the stricter my bed rest should be considering she is very low (she kicks me along my hip bone line across my stomach area usually...in my cervix and such)?

Thanks!
 
Krystal Dawn - try not to stress hun. It is always best to avoid speculum exams, and lots of TVUs in pregnancy, especially if you have a track record of IC and/or infection. However, I had an internal scan every 3wks because it was deemed necessary, and in your case it is important to identify the source (if any) of your discharge/infection. I also had a complete screen done at 18wks to check for infections, and that involved a speculum and swab. It caused no harm, and in fact identified BV which was treated promptly with antibiotics. This exam is done for ALL women at risk for preterm labour at my hospital.

You have the stitch in place, so your cervix should be ok - especially if it was placed before any cervical changes occurred. Let us know what the swab shows up hun x
 
Hi ladies,

So I have been having contractions, which I thought were BH's but they were lasting for hours and I ended up at my doctor today. My cervix is closed beneath the stitch, but on the ultrasound taken only days after my cerclage and 20 week ultrasound (where there was no funneling or beaking seen) my cervix was beaking. Not grossly, but it still was. The doctor didn't seem too considered, she ordered another ultrasound. Said I could start labouring because of the beaking...but can't beak/funnel past the stitch? Is this right?

Baby is very low and causing extreme pressure on my cervix which doesn't help. I am still on modified bed rest, though was told to listen to my body and rest any time there is pressure and still stick to the 1 hour on my feet at a time only rule.

I also have lost parts of my plug, but this wasn't considering to my OB either as she manually looked at my cervix and said it was closed.

I have to say I am pretty upset with her over all, not that that's new....but I was alone with my file today and read it (yes Im nosey..) and saw that a letter from the doctors who delivered Lakai stated very clearly that any future pregnancies I had after him they strongly suggested a cerclage placed before 14 weeks. And that IC was the most likely cause of Lakai's birth. My OB refused to stitch me and said it was unlikely I had an IC.

I am liking just looking for a place to put my frustration over all this. But I have to wonder if things had happened sooner if we would be in this boat?

Anyways, I am curious about a few things...can you funnel/beak past your stitch? And if you do, what then? Am I right in thinking the bigger baby gets that the stricter my bed rest should be considering she is very low (she kicks me along my hip bone line across my stomach area usually...in my cervix and such)?

Thanks!

Hi. In ladies with IC, it is "normal" to funnel to the stitch, and usually not beyond. That is the reason the stitch is placed because this is expected. You are 23wks pregnant, baby is bigger, the pressure on your cervix greater, and it has opened at the top as a result. That is why is looks different now to 3 wks ago - your stitch is actually doing its job. :hugs:

Here's the thing. It is unlikely that you will funnel beyond the stitch unless you actually go into labour - only then it is possible to dilate thru the stitch. If this happens, you will have pain, bleeding and there really will be no mistaking it. Going into labour is usually due to infection as a result of your earlier cervical changes - by now tho that threat has lessened.

An incompetent cervix which changes without contractions will ultimately only dilate to 3cms. It can only dilate further under the influence of strong regular contractions - preterm labour. After 25/26wks baby is too large to pass thru a 3cm gap and so IC itself is no longer a threat to the pregnancy. Of course membranes can stil bulge, and infection get in, but IC itself is not a direct issue. You have not dilated, or anywhere close - your cervix has funneled (opened at the top). At the moment, your cervix is not giving any cause for concern beyond what is "normal" in IC ladies.

In my experience, women who manage to get past this point tend to make it well beyond 30wks. Remember hun, my cervix had funneled to the stitch at my 25wk scan, but never went thru it under the weight of two very large babies.

It is absolutely maddening that your doc didn't stitch you at 12/14wks given the IC diagnosis. I am shocked and angered every day at how many women are allowed to needlessly lose their babies when IC is usually so easily fixed. I still cannot fathom the reasoning behind many clinician's rather conservative approach to IC management, when the tell tale signs are often staring them in the face.

You hun are doing brilliantly so far and it is understandable that you are frightened after all that you have been thru. You are doing all the right things, so sit tight, continue resting, and keep in touch xxx :hugs:
 
Hi Ladies :flower:

I'm new to this thread and in all honesty never expected to be here. For the past couple weeks I've had strong cramps and Braxton Hicks with spotting. My doctor sent me in for an ultrasound on Tuesday and we discovered that my cervix has shortened from 4.7cm at my 18 week ultrasound to now being 2.1 :(

I have a doctor's appt tomorrow to discuss everything since this is my first pregnancy and I have no idea what any of it means. DH and I are both very nervous and scared as we don't know what to expect :cry:

Any tips or ideas?
 
Helen, thank you for sharing your personal experience. It's SO frustrating having to FIGHT for what's right. The more I research this and hear from women like you, the more I KNOW I'm making the right decision!

Nkbapbt, your own experience has given me even MORE drive to fight for an earlier cerclage.

Lizzie, you are so right about Dr.'s being so conservative in their own diagnosis. I couldn't sleep last night and am slightly nervous about tomorrows appointment but I'm going to FIGHT for this early cerclaging and she has to know that if she still holds on to her "wait and see" that I will have to get a second opinion. I'm just praying the office with the second opinion won't take the same "wait and see" approach. :wacko:

I think once I get past this issue, I can relax a bit. I can't sleep, I'm nauseated around the clock, can't seem to find any food I like to eat and I'm so anxious. I'm just trying to find some peace and let go of the stress for a moment.

Like you, it breaks my heart to see so many physicians doing this to their patients. It makes me mad!! If it weren't for you and the ladies in this forum, I would have accepted this though in my heart just knew it wasn't the right decision. Now that I know it's the difference between possibly losing another child OR standing up and advocating for what I feel is right for me and the baby...I'm going to do it!!
 
Hey ladies, I have to make this short as my internet service at the hospital is spotty, and I'm not allowed to be sitting up for too much at a time.

So I know there are going to be people/issues I am going to miss. Sorry.

Vasu, beautiful pics.

Congrats to the 2 other newborns we have here!

Welcome to all the newbies. Glad you found us.

I believe doing a cerclage later in a pregnancy causes a greater risk of rupture and infection, which is why they are usually referred to as 'rescue' cerclages. If you think about it, they have already let you lose quite a bit of important cervical length, they have more than likely let you lose your mucous plug, and the bag of waters is much closer to where they are stitching, making it more likely that they would pierce it with the needle. I would really fight for the cerclage before 14 weeks.

The whole BV/PTL thing... so confusing, because for me, I didn't develop strong contractions until the BV had ascended basically all the way up the vagina. But this only happend because she irritated my McDonald stitch quite bad, and therefore, it entered into the site of the stitches and caused mayhem. I didn't lose my mucous plug until right before I delivered; around the same time my membranes ruptured from being exposed to the BV. I never shorted my cervix, nothing, until the BV was super established in the stitch. THEN I started with regular strong contractions, and it wasn't until the very end that I just tore, but not through the stitch... beside it...

So I don't know... BV is such a tricky thing for me...

Anyways, me time now, before I lye back down. Completed 7 days of hospital bedrest so far. Minimal complications besides boredom. They started treating me, the day I came in, as though I had ruptured my membranes, which of course, I havent. So I had an IV drip of both Erythromyacin and Ampicillan for 48 hours, at which time I was switched to a gram a day of both, orally. Unfortunately this has caused a lot of diarrhea, which only complicated things as it gets hard to distinguish bowel upset from uterine upset.

Then I started to get a bit of pain at my stitch and some discharge the other day. We though yeast, but tested for a UTI just in case, and I was given Flagyl for BV for 2 days only. The Dr highly doubted it would be BV due to the other meds, but threw it in there for safety. Only two days as he said it was unlikely that if there was BV growing, it would be very much. Then I was getting really irritated, which called for a one time shot of oral Diflucan.

So now, I had an ultrasound, externally, done today to check on things. The tech had me freaked out because the first thing she said was my cervic was short and it appeared to be beaking. So I was really worried. In the end, it sounds like she is measuring it as 2.3-2.4cms long. On Friday, it was informally measured and was 2.54 by best count. She did say it is close and she sees no funnelling or membranes dipping, and no bulging. The beaking is minor and not to the stitch yet. The cervical length is the complete lenght, no under or over stitch measurements were taken.

She did call the radiologist in right away and he decided it wasn't severe enough to warrant either a trans labial (which I was okay with) or an endovaginal scan.

If I remember correctly, my cervix was measured at 2.82cms after the stitch was placed at 13+3 weeks.

The OB did come to see me today and he said he is actually reassured by my scan and doesn't see any signs of concern. He said it wasn't even true beaking, whatever that means. So he said to just keep doing what I'm doing here, bedrest with bathroom priveleges and to ring the nurses if I get cramping, backache, or contractions of any sort, or bloody vaginal discharge. He said he honestly wouldn't be worried if I did funnell to the stitch, he would only be concerned if I funnelled through, or behind it.

So he does seem to think I will get another week and a half out of this cervix, which will get me to viabilty and the steroids.

I hope he is right... So for now, I will just lie here and try to read, and try to watch the occassional movie if I can set the laptop up beside me on the bed.

For those that have had the stitch and what I am describing, does this sound about normal right now?
 
sherri i have been checking every day for an update on u!glad to see things are going ok so far..fingers crossed and rest up!

vasu ur pictures are gorgeous!
 
do you guys think i should book one more cervical length scan? The nhs won't do it but private isn't an issue. Like i mentioned measuremenus were
17 weeks 3.6
20 weeks 3.8
22 weeks 3.9
my worry remains to be this pressure feeling in my back passage. I haven't noticed increased discharge really. My other worry is i have been taking it real easy since 19 weeks with just laying around the house and going out a few times a week. Worried this may have covered the problem. How quickly can it shorten? At 23+ weeks is there any real benefit to getting another scan, what will the do if its short.

I go back to my demanding job at 25 weeks and it worries me that once i stop chilling out it will become a problem.
 
Lynz hun, I can see no problem at all with your cl, nor do I think you have IC. Your cervix would already have shortened significantly over the last few weeks if you had it. The back passage pressure is normal in pregnancy, and will likely ease after 24wks as you uterus moves up and out into your abdomen. An incompetent cervix can shorten quickly in a short space of time, but would be looking on the shorter side by now. Mine was dilated 3cms at 23wks, and probably began to shorten significantly from 20wks on before reaching that point. Mine wasn't badly incompetent either, so is a good one to compare yourself to. Many ladies show shortening from 15wks before they reach critical point.

If it reassures you, then ask for a scan, but at 23wks you have made it more than safely thru the "danger zone", so try to relax. Every pregnant woman should take things a bit easier, so at work be mindful to take rest breask and not exert yourself too much. Other than that, you are doing everything right hun x

Sherri - your cervix length sounds ok to me at 23wks. Obviously you are fighting the dreaded IC, but with the stitch in place I think you have an excellent chance of progressing for several more weeks yet. Are you experiencing any contractions at all? If not, funneling to the stitch is normal for us and shouldn't be cause for concern hun x


CMarie - your cervix has shortened hun, but at 23wks it is not a catastrophic change. It may be that you need to go on bed rest for several weeks, which on its own can lengthen the cervix again. There are women who walk around blissfully unaware that their cervix is on the shorter side, and go on to term without ever realising it. Your doc may offer a stitch, which I would be tempted to accept. Your cervix is still closed, and a stitch still has a good chance of working well at this stage, but some docs won't stitch late in the day. Let us know what you find out today x
 
Lynz hun, I can see no problem at all with your cl, nor do I think you have IC. Your cervix would already have shortened significantly over the last few weeks if you had it. The back passage pressure is normal in pregnancy, and will likely ease after 24wks as you uterus moves up and out into your abdomen. An incompetent cervix can shorten quickly in a short space of time, but would be looking on the shorter side by now. Mine was dilated 3cms at 23wks, and probably began to shorten significantly from 20wks on before reaching that point. Mine wasn't badly incompetent either, so is a good one to compare yourself to. Many ladies show shortening from 15wks before they reach critical point.

If it reassures you, then ask for a scan, but at 23wks you have made it more than safely thru the "danger zone", so try to relax. Every pregnant woman should take things a bit easier, so at work be mindful to take rest breask and not exert yourself too much. Other than that, you are doing everything right hun x

Sherri - your cervix length sounds ok to me at 23wks. Obviously you are fighting the dreaded IC, but with the stitch in place I think you have an excellent chance of progressing for several more weeks yet. Are you experiencing any contractions at all? If not, funneling to the stitch is normal for us and shouldn't be cause for concern hun x


CMarie - your cervix has shortened hun, but at 23wks it is not a catastrophic change. It may be that you need to go on bed rest for several weeks, which on its own can lengthen the cervix again. There are women who walk around blissfully unaware that their cervix is on the shorter side, and go on to term without ever realising it. Your doc may offer a stitch, which I would be tempted to accept. Your cervix is still closed, and a stitch still has a good chance of working well at this stage, but some docs won't stitch late in the day. Let us know what you find out today x

Thanks Lizzie you have stopped my panicing :) The soonest a cervical scan would have been was wednesday when ill be 24+1 so beyond the point of doctors doing a suture anyway - i will ride it out i think.

Sorry for bombarding you with anxious questions. I probably seem like quite a fraud compared to you ladies who have lived/are living with this horrid condition. Im just a worrier - it took 3 years to fall with this one and a MMC in there too so just over cautios (im also a mw so i have seen too much as well!!).

I really cant thank you ladies enough - you have kept me sane.....ish. A wonderful support gruop. Would you mind if i refer other ladies i come across in my job to here for some support which i have personally found invaluable? Also like ive said have kinda gotten attached to this thread and really want to know who you ladies get on like MA and Sherri who have had quite a journey already.
 
Hi ladies,

I've been having what I think may be contractions for the last few hours. I'm 18 weeks with a cerclage in and I've had on and off pains since it was placed but I'm worried that I'm contracting now. Can anyone describe what contractions might feel like at 18 weeks? Thanks in advance!
 
Krystal Dawn - try not to stress hun. It is always best to avoid speculum exams, and lots of TVUs in pregnancy, especially if you have a track record of IC and/or infection. However, I had an internal scan every 3wks because it was deemed necessary, and in your case it is important to identify the source (if any) of your discharge/infection. I also had a complete screen done at 18wks to check for infections, and that involved a speculum and swab. It caused no harm, and in fact identified BV which was treated promptly with antibiotics. This exam is done for ALL women at risk for preterm labour at my hospital.

You have the stitch in place, so your cervix should be ok - especially if it was placed before any cervical changes occurred. Let us know what the swab shows up hun x

Thank you so much for the reply! My biggest fear is waiting another week for the 2nd swab results before they do anything ie give me medication. The midwife found traces of leukocytes in my urine yesterday and i will re-rest myself with my own urine strips today. I know ill panic if it comes back as more than a trace. Feel like its a waiting game and in that time things could get worse. Its hard as cant talk directly to my consultant - i only get to see her once every 2 weeks. I always end up having to go into a&e when i have problems and my care just seems all over the place! Ok rant over sorry about that! lol x
 
As far as I can tell, there have been no contractions. They won't hook me up to the monitor as they say its too early to get a reading.

I did have some really bad pain that lasted a few hours down one side of my belly. It didn't come in waves, so they think it was a muscle spasm or pulled muscle or something like that.

My bed is currently in a modified Trendellenberg. We tried full on Trendellenberg, but it was too much for my heart to handle and it started going crazy...
 
do you guys think i should book one more cervical length scan? The nhs won't do it but private isn't an issue. Like i mentioned measuremenus were
17 weeks 3.6
20 weeks 3.8
22 weeks 3.9
my worry remains to be this pressure feeling in my back passage. I haven't noticed increased discharge really. My other worry is i have been taking it real easy since 19 weeks with just laying around the house and going out a few times a week. Worried this may have covered the problem. How quickly can it shorten? At 23+ weeks is there any real benefit to getting another scan, what will the do if its short.

I go back to my demanding job at 25 weeks and it worries me that once i stop chilling out it will become a problem.

Your cervix length is what our dreams are made of! Nice and long, holding steady at a decent length.

May I ask why you are worried about IC? EDIT: I see why now. Sorry sweetheart. :hugs: I hope that Lizzie's answer gives you some peace of mind! Its ok to worry.
 
do you guys think i should book one more cervical length scan? The nhs won't do it but private isn't an issue. Like i mentioned measuremenus were
17 weeks 3.6
20 weeks 3.8
22 weeks 3.9
my worry remains to be this pressure feeling in my back passage. I haven't noticed increased discharge really. My other worry is i have been taking it real easy since 19 weeks with just laying around the house and going out a few times a week. Worried this may have covered the problem. How quickly can it shorten? At 23+ weeks is there any real benefit to getting another scan, what will the do if its short.

I go back to my demanding job at 25 weeks and it worries me that once i stop chilling out it will become a problem.

Your cervix length is what our dreams are made of! Nice and long, holding steady at a decent length.

May I ask why you are worried about IC? EDIT: I see why now. Sorry sweetheart. :hugs: I hope that Lizzie's answer gives you some peace of mind! Its ok to worry.

i know i am a fraud. I feel so bad for you poor ladies who have to go through such an ordeal to have your precious bundles.
My mother had IC and both my brother and i were stitched in following a 20 week loss. This was 30 years ago so whether it was IC or a preventative stitch after her terrible experience i don't know.
I just feel like its all to perfect and something is bound to snatch her soon. You know?
I just hope my being here doesn't upset you girls as i have no idea what you have or are going through as so far its been ok.
 
Hey girls, just wanted to drop in quickly with an update.

Had that extra rescan today and it seems that I am stable at 1.7 cms - same measurement as Tuesday so was over the moon about that. BH's are def kicking in for me regularly now, I get at least a few a day but they aren't seeming to change anything so that's good. Next appt is this coming Tuesday (usually I go every Tuesday but they wanted me to come back this morning just to doublecheck) so FX'd that everything remains the same!

:hugs: to all.
 
:blush: Yeh i am. Just glad you ladies are so supportive and knowledgeable :)
 

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