Lip/tongue tie experts?

[too_scared]

I don't think that is our problem but I wanted to be sure.

I keep getting told by other moms in a bf'ing group that munchkin possibly has a tongue and/or lip tie. I have talked twice about her taking forever to latch sometimes.

Sometimes she latches right away and nurses very well. Other times she will put her mouth on me but close her mouth too early, or she will search and search even though I'm right there so she's rubbing her mouth over and over my nipple (ouch!), or she will latch very shallow. Other times she'll latch and then come off again in a minute and repeat this a few times before staying latched. Some moms are saying that all those signs mean she has a tie.

The lactation consultant checked her when we left the hospital. She does have a small lip tie but so does her brother. They both seem to nurse just fine. I am still nursing her brother. She can stick her tongue right out and she can put her tongue right to the roof of her mouth.

I'm thinking it's just because she's so new at nursing and she's so small. I'm hoping once she gets bigger it'll be easier for her. It's frustrating at night when it takes her forever to latch and nurse but she is having lots of pees and poops so she must be getting lots of milk (I make loads of milk!) I also wonder if she doesn't like my fast let down. She will trigger a let down and then come off until the milk stops spraying.

Thanks for any input you might have!

I'm really hoping it's not a tie because there is only one place in our entire province to get it released and it's over 600 km away!

 

[captainj1]

Both of mine were tongue tied and it was very obvious when you knew what to look for. With both of them they latched on fine on the face of it - both very sucky babies - but it was super painful for me and until they had their frenulectomies they cracked my nipples til they bled. They both gained weight well though because I was nursing on demand and they demanded often because they weren't getting a deep latch so weren't getting much milk. Toe curling for me and used shields for a bit which led to mastitis. Eurgh.

Dd in particular had a weak suck too, which is getting better now.

What you describe in terms of the fussing at the breast is what both of mine did/do when they are tired rather than hungry - they've been grumpy and I offer the breast even though it might not have been long since last feed. They fuss and don't take the nipple, just lick it and thrash head from side to side - and when I Put a muslin over their eyes their eyes roll and that's when I know they aren't hungry and just need a nap...which for them both has been when they've been awake for 45 minutes to 1 hr 15 at this age (8 weeks).

Good luck, and if your dd is tongue tied the procedure is very straightforward at this age and takes seconds, so worth getting done know imo.

 

[too_scared]

Thank you.

Munchkin seems to have a nice strong latch. When I was really engorged she was able to drink until my breast was soft. I feed on demand, too, and she is still mostly going every 3 hours (sometimes every hour in the evening, sometimes 4 hours overnight)

I have no cracked nipples. I have pain but I think that's just new baby pain and leftover pain from nursing kiddo during pregnancy. When she latches the pain goes away.

I feel like the fussing is gas. She had a bad night but had a few big toots, a huge poop, and a big burp and now she's sleeping soundly. We just need her digestive system to start working like a team!

I'm not worried about getting the tie released (well, I am, but you know) I'm worried about how the heck would I get there. Driving more than 600 km with a 2 year old and a newborn doesn't sound like fun. Especially since we will have to drive 200 km away to drop the dogs at a kennel (because for some crazy reason there are none between here and where we have to go) and that means a night in that town. Then a night 1/2 way through the trip. Then repeat to come back. 6 days to get there and back plus the nights there. Ugh.

 

[MindUtopia]

Is there a BF counselor or peer supporter who runs the group? If so, ask if they can check for a tongue tie or if they can refer you to someone else who can. I would get it checked just to be sure. If your LO is gaining weight though and you aren't in pain, my guess is it's fine. My daughter has a lip tie and what the BF counselor described as a "short tongue" without an obvious tie but basically meant her tongue was equally constricted (she couldn't stick it out or move it around like she should have, just there wasn't anything there to clip and be released). She always struggled to get a latch, would fall off constantly every time, and struggled to put on weight. Even when we switched to bottle feeding closer to 3 months, she still struggled to latch and suck from a bottle. It was obvious something wasn't right. If baby is doing well and you're fairly comfortable, then my guess would be that it's fine, but to ease your worries, I'd get someone who knows how to check for one to take a look, someone who has expertise in these sorts of things. The midwives checked my daughter after birth as well, but they had no idea what they were looking for and I now know they didn't actually examine her properly.

 

[too_scared]

Thank you

The bf group is on fb. No one I can see in person. I saw the lactation consultant before we left the hospital. She said munchkin has a small lip tie but it isn't bad at all and since she was nursing well then it would be fine. Evie can stick her tongue out really far and doesn't seem to have a problem raising the back of her tongue to the roof of her mouth.

Next time we go into town I'll make an appt to see the lactation consultant again. I doubt we'll be in town before August, though. Town is over 200 km away.

 

[too_scared]

Darn it! I just realized I posted this in baby club and not the breastfeeding forum.

 

[noon_child]

It really doesn't sound like TT to me but I'm no expert obviously.

The searching for the breast and rubbing her face on it sounds like normal newborn behaviour (often called head bobbing but my LO always did more of a thrash type movement from side to side) which comes from reflexes built in when we were expecting our babies to hang on to us and if they needed to feed, find the nipple themselves and because they can't see it they use their sense of touch to triangulate exactly where it is.

If you have a strong let down she may well come off and on a lot till it slows or she may try to slow the flow by latching too shallow..OUCH!

TT symptoms are usually:

Pain in Mum
Badly misshapen or damaged cracked nipples
Slow weight gain or weight loss in baby
Unsettled after all feeds (so like cluster feeding behaviour but all through the day everyday)
Poor nappy output
Struggling to bottle feed

You don't always get all of these symptoms but Mums pain + slow weight gain despite the latch "looking good" is usually the most common.

Something that may help you is laid back nursing (also known as biological nurturing sometimes or relaxed breastfeeding). If you have fast letdown it helps slow it, and it works with your LOs reflexes rather than against them.

 

[too_scared]

Thank you

I have pain in my nipples but I think it's from nursing 2, one with a shallow latch that I can't seem to change (2 year old!)

We brought her back to the public health nurse yesterday to get her weighed again because she had only gained an oz from when she left the hospital until 8 days old. The phn was a little worried. Well, munchkin made sure no one has to worry about her weight gain anymore! She went from 7 lb 3 oz to 8 lb 2 oz in 9 days! Little stinker. She is 94th percentile for height and 46th for weight. She's doing awesome.

I think when her little mouth gets bigger and she learns more how to nurse we'll be all set.

Thank you for your help!