Moms who could not breastfeed due to supply issues...

[kickass_MOM]

Hi FF moms,
Just something I was wondering about.Did your breasts leak at all during pregnancy?Does anybody out there feel like I do that the low supply could have been a hormonal thing like insulin resistance (though my sugar levels were normal).I had an issue with skin darkening though that could have been IR.
Has anybody ever been able to latch their LO on flat nipples without a nipple shield?

 

[andella95]

My breasts didn't leak ever. Not during pregnancy nor at the height of when I was breastfeeding. I've been told I have IR in the past, and my sugar levels are fine. I've also had recurrent miscarriages (4 in a row.) I KNOW my hormones are a mess, lol.

 

[kickass_MOM]

My breasts didn't leak ever. Not during pregnancy nor at the height of when I was breastfeeding. I've been told I have IR in the past, and my sugar levels are fine. I've also had recurrent miscarriages (4 in a row.) I KNOW my hormones are a mess, lol.

ohh hun. My hormones were all ok as far as I know , but apparently all women become IR to a certain extent, during pregnancy.Some just more , but eventually its our bodies that synthesize it differently.so much for being unique
If only I had been tested for IR too.I mean I was looked at by at least 3 diff GYNs and none of them thought much about my skin color changes .I had turned real dark in some places and no it wasn't chloasma as I thought it might have been!

 

[Maidenet]

My breasts didn't leak ever. Not during pregnancy nor at the height of when I was breastfeeding. I've been told I have IR in the past, and my sugar levels are fine. I've also had recurrent miscarriages (4 in a row.) I KNOW my hormones are a mess, lol.

Snap! 4 miscarriages in a row and no leaking even whilst trying xxx

 

[BB29]

I had no leaking but am putting my supply issues down to having a planned c section and my milk not coming through till day 5.

 

[vintage67]

No change in breasts during either pregnancy; no leaking.

I have PCOS, diabetes and thyroid issues. Several of my mother's sisters did not produce much milk. I am old, my mom is old, so I'm talking the 1920's, 1930's and 1940's, so no one was being "mesmerized" by formula ads. This was in a rurual area, and people just put their babies on cow's milk when they had issues.

In seven years time, I have occassionally asked older women, and I mean over 60 or so, what women did when they were unable to breastfeed. It isn't a new phenomenon; I have found research that baby "feeding devices"
have been discovered through archeology that are thousands of years old.
Apparently, from the beginning of time, babies have had trouble latching, and mother's had no or low supply, and human ingenuity concocted "plan B's" to
nourish their babies. As inferior and maligned as modern formula is, it has improved dramatically and we should be grateful. Infants were often given
the milk of goats, cows and other animals. I'm sure many of them died.

But, on my mother's side of the family, for sure, that I know, quite a few babies were put on "fresh milk" from the barn well before they were one.

So, for those of us with low supply and in some cases, no supply,
remember we stand at the end of a long line of women throughout history. We are not alone. We are not defective. "Plan A" or "nature" didn't work and we sought out the best alternative we could find. I am "Mother", hear me roar!

 

[kickass_MOM]

Right said Vintage.Supply issues have always been there.what I fail to understand is instead of wasting time researching the benefits of BM, why don't the 'Researchers' just assume it is beneficial and spend time researching different not-so-new issues women face.Why is there not enough research in this area , so women can know what to expect, at a prenatal checkup itself.

 

[queenlavera]

Never leaked, never even felt heavy or full. I also have PCOS and Diabetes.

 

[Pielette]

Well said Vintage!
My breasts never leaked during pregnancy. I'm not sure whether I would have had a low supply under any circumstances, or whether it was due to the stress I was going through at the time.

 

[Guppy051708]

has anyone ever spoken to you ladies about Insufficient Glandular Tissue (IGT) or Hypoplastic Breast or Breast Hypolplasia (all names for IGT)?
I finally found out thats why i could only make 4oz at my max with #1. I didn't have breast growth during pregnancy and i never experienced engorgement. My milk was next to non existent. I did everything i could and nothing worked. I am on baby #2 and i still have to give him 8oz per day of donor milk because im not producing enough this time either. I hardly had any breast change and never experienced engorgement. I never have to wear pads because my breast dont leak. I supplement with an at breast supplementer and he nurses at the same time while he gets donor milk. Ive done it ALL and my supply never increased or got to enough. It is a direct result of IGT and i believe my IGT was caused because of an underactive thyroid i had before puberty. I had supply issues since the colostrum with both babies. its not that i lost supply, its that i hardly ever had it in the first place.

 

[kickass_MOM]

Hi Guppy,
I have heard of that one.But how did you get the diagnosis?Can one tell if she has less glandular tissue while hand expressing?

 

[Guppy051708]

Hi Guppy,
I have heard of that one.But how did you get the diagnosis?Can one tell if she has less glandular tissue while hand expressing?

There are markers for IGT, but its hard to get a diagnoses from a professional because its so rare that most have never even heard of it before. Its about 2% of women...but they think the rate is at least 5% maybe even as high as 10%, but most women with IGT figure out they have it on their own since most medical professionals (LCs included) have never even heard of it and the biggest thing going against is the old "everyone can breastfeed" saying .
Anyways, initially mine was self diagnosed (very common with this disorder), but then an IBCLC diagnosed me (the best LCs out there, but sadly even they seem to lack knowledge of this).

Markers would include things like far spaced breast (1.5inch or more spaced...mine are 3.5! ), no breast changes (or minimual breast change) during pregnancy. No engorgement, low milk supply, tubular shaped breasts, etc.

Be sure to check out this blog, it is very good! I personally know the mama on there. She has IGT....not to be gross but there are photos of the many ways IGT can look. (My boobs are on there haha). A lot of other IGT moms agreed to the photos because we want to help other IGT mothers since its so hard to handle, and we have so many unaswered questions....

https://diaryofalactationfailure.blogspot.com/2011/12/many-faces-well-not-faces-of-igt.html

its kind of one of those things that you figure out in hindsight. Especially the during pregnancy [lack] of change and the [lack] of engorgement. But also if you are doing everything under the sun to increase supply, and its not happeneing, then it likely is IGT.

 

[Guppy051708]

oh and its also something that, if you have it, you dont have a good supply that goes sour. Its something that you have as soon as the milk comes in. its chronic, ongoing. So if you had a good supply that decreased, then i would say you dont have IGT, because it would have never been good in the first place, if that makes any sense. With IGT you have a milk supply problem as soon as the milk is supposed to come in.

Thyroid and insulin (and coritsol) play HUGE factors in milk production, so you have to look at the big picture. Plenty of women have these issues and their supply is fine. Other women have these {hormonal} issues and their supplies are terrible BUT they lack the markers of IGT (like their breasts developed during pregnancy, they are not far spaced, etc). BUT if they have the hormonal problems and the IGT, that can make the supply even less robust. So getting hormones taken care of is HIGHLY important, but if you have IGT it wont be a miracle worker. At the same time, for the most part, even women with hormonal issues but without IGT normally have a decent supply (though it could DEF be the cause of a milk supply issue)

 

[kickass_MOM]

Thanks Guppy.Its such a mystery given I wasn't asked to check my insulin levels only sugar levels during pregnancy.So I'll never know.
Besides I had what the docs called engorgement on day 7 PP (isn't dat like too late?) but I also had swollen feet that day(no preeclampsia, probably the drip) so I wonder whether it was engorgement or just edema.I could only about hand express/syringe express a few drops.There was no pump in sight in that stupid place nor did I own one coz I never thought BFing would not happen.

 

[Maxy1]

I think basic history shows that milk supply issues have been abundant in women. Indigenous tribes in most countries would have babies being nursed by women who had good supply for those women who had no or little supply. it was very commonplace and I believe well documented.

I agree Formula's are a far cry from what they used to be and they are now a VERY close second to BM. Especially in developed countries where vax and healthcare are freely available and often accessed so the immunity benefits of BM do not so far exceed that of FM & healthcare that they are vastly different IMO.

 

[Guppy051708]

I think basic history shows that milk supply issues have been abundant in women. Indigenous tribes in most countries would have babies being nursed by women who had good supply for those women who had no or little supply. it was very commonplace and I believe well documented.

This is so true! Many lactavists will use the argument of "how come in developed countries {where there is formula} have milk supply issues, but in 3rd world countries they have no problem?" This argument couldn't be any more misinformed! In countries with super high BFing rates (and low formula use), the mothers would have other women in the culture feed their babies. All moms would BF what they could, and if it isn't enough then anothher mother would also nurse the baby.

I use donor milk So not exactly the same, but ive found a lot of healing in that.

 

[Guppy051708]

Also, rates of IGT are increasing because they believe one primary cause (there are MANY causes though!) is from dioxins (pollutants), genetically modified foods, and from pesticide/herbcide overuse in our plant foods. This bad use (especially in the US!), is just increasing, so rates of IGT will be too. GM foods have been proven to cause reproductive issues in animals. Making many completly infertile and killing lots. Its quite scary when you read about...and wouldn't ya know that BFing is a reproductive thing!
Also, dioxins effect the reproductive system and the endocrine system so thyroid problems, insulin resistance, PCOS, IGT, etc are increasing and causing this problem.


kickassmom- I think the latests in normally comes in is day 5, and usually thats only in the case of a c-section birth. A vaginal birth is usually before that (but not always). Its hard to say, for you, everyone is different, so there is always that possibility that you were the exception to the rule. But if you had high fluids in your system...that could be tough to say. Personally my milk never "came in" until day 5 even though i have had unmedicated, vaginal births with both. So this *could* also be a marker of IGT. but thats just somethig ive personally speculated. And when it did "come in" it wasn't much....you really can't base a supply problem off of pumping or hand expressing though. A baby is so much better at getting milk out than all of that. What you base it on is wet diapers, dirty diapers, and baby weight gain. Even women with super large supplies can have issues "warming up to the pump" or even hand expressing. thats not uncommon and certainly not a measure to say its IGT or not. Though obviously if you have IGT you wouldn't be getting much out, since there isn't loads to get out, iykwim.

 

[Kage76]

Maybe once- woke up and my sheets were wet in the general breast area- but the way i way leaking bodily fluids during the late stages of pregnancy it could have been sweat drool or snot! (sorry TMI LOL) If a gave a good squeeze i might have got a couple of drops out. I too never really got engorgement- my pre period and first tri sore boobs was way worse and i never really felt full or my milk being let down- I was also GD- diet exercise controlled and she was a month prem. GD, prem baby and stress- the ideal start to BF!

 

[OmarsMum]

I suffer from PCOS so my hormones are messed up. I got my insulin checked when we were ttc but it was normal. I also have flat nipples. I didn't leak during pregnancy. After giving birth Omar couldn't latch on & I didn't have any milk. I tried expressing, but it didn't work, I didn't get a single drop. He finally latched on at almost 3 weeks, but there was no milk, I tried for another 2 weeks, but there was no milk at all. I saw a bfing consultant, I took supliments to increase supply but nothing worked.

 

[Celesse]

I never leaked during pregnancy or BFing and usually would respond to a similar question in BFing section by saying I'm feeding my 2 perfectly fine.

But this thread turned on a light bulb in my head. With regards supply issues, although I don't have supply issues now, I have had 2 big early weight losses (18% #1 and 14% #2). I have also needed to take domperidone both times to get BFing established. It could be explained by 2 very different sets of circumstances surrounding their births, or maybe something hormonal going on meaning I needed the domperidone to give me that boost and get my lactation going.

My milk came in day 5 after my c-section and day 4 after my forceps.