My Big Kids won't sleep!

[lizziedripping]

If anyone can help, or offer advice I'd be soooo grateful. I am at my wits end tonight

I have 4 children. A boy, 8, girl, 6 and twin boys, 5 months. Until they hit 4yrs of age the older two were brilliant sleepers. Down at 8pm, out like a light and awake again at 8am. I am a big believer in routine and establish quite a strict one from the start, which is why the twinnies are already sleeping 12hrs a night

Thing is, the bigger 2 are now a total nightmare. They go up to bed between 8 and 9, and 5 nights out of 7 are still awake at 10.30pm I have just been up again to them and pleaded with them to go to sleep - I was almost in tears

Not only do we feel like we never have a break from the kids, but I worry so much about them coping with school on so little sleep. I have to get them up at 7am, they are knackered and look awful. It makes me so tense every night sitting and waiting for the chattering to stop - creeping up to confirm they have gone to sleep.

I just don't understand. All their friends are asleep by 8pm. My little girl looks exhausted in the evenings, is grumpy and sleepy just before going up, but by the time she hits her bedroom she is wide awake again

I have tried sending them up earlier, but they just lie there awake even longer. We've cut out sugery drinks, cakes or treats past 6pm. I have even stopped my son having his 30mins on the Wii after tea in case this was stimulating his brain too much. Nothing I do works, and it is really spoiling my relationship with them - I spend all evening yelling up the stairs with empty threats.

What can I do? I realise that some kids need less sleep than others, but it is obvious mine aren't getting enough. How can they NOT be tired after being up at 7 and having a busy school day? Aaargh - please help x

 

[Cariad_bach]

What are they doing? chatting with eachother?
My 5 year olds a little so and so for keeping the others awake (she normally shares a room with her older sister but at weekends they all take it in turns to sleep in different rooms) tonight im going to stick the camcorder in their room (it records onto a hard drive so hours of recording time) and leave it going, i know i wont see anything but it will pick up sound.
Id be interested to see if it was always 1 keeping the other awake.
Then i guess its time for reward charts and a big star for every time you don't have to go up to them ... but i don't think its fare to punish both if ones at fault more then the other IYKWIM xx

 

[divadexie]

The sticker chart sounds like a good idea.
My son went through a phase of this, I took a teddy off him each time I had to go in.
He is in a room on his own but would talk to himelf and keep awake then be really grumpy the next day!
Now I only have to call to him once to be quiet.

He still tries to ask me loads of questions when I am on my way out the door I repeat 'goodnight' and if he doesnt say it back just close the door I dont in any way encourage chatting after lights out.

 

[lizziedripping]

Hi ladies, thanks for replying. Kids chat to themselves in bed - too far away from each other to talk together. My son says he tries desperately to fall asleep but can't, and he actually cries when i get annoyed because he says the more i tell him to go to sleep, the harder he finds it. I can't force them to drop off, so not sure what to do. Don't think they're being naughty, just seem absolutely wide awake by bed time x

 

[divadexie]

How about some calm down time before bed?

My son will lay awake and chat to himself if he has just watched tv before bed but if I let him sit and look at a book for a while he sleeps sooner.
Or I take him a walk to the shop and get him to help carry things home.

 

[mrsbadcrumble]

I know how infuriating it is, and seeing them exhausted the next day just proves you're right!

My eldest was a monkey for not sleeping well, from the day he was born. He's 18 now, and still survives on the bare minimum. I found a good way to get him to drop off to sleep, AND stay quiet after going to his room, was to get talking books. I put a casette/CD player in his room, and he was allowed to listen to a story in his room, quietly. He got totally hooked on the stories, but kept falling asleep before a side had finished! His favourites were the Harry Potter books. You can take talking books out from the local library for about £1, and I save them onto my harddrive on my PC, then copy them onto a CD, MP3 player or memory stick, to listen to again.

I think that you need to discuss the problems that lack of sleep are causing them well before the bedtime, so maybe over a weekend, during the day. Point out that lack of sleep is actually bad for their health, and that any late nights at school discos, family parties, etc., will be out of the question until they are sleeping better. (A bit of carrot & stick). Maybe even have a reward chart for good night's sleep, and the promise of a treat to a day out, trip to cinema if they achieve a good run of them (say 2 weeks).

If you're getting angry and shouting at them, it's only going to keep them awake anyway, as you and they will be agitated. I think they need to understand that noise needs to be kept to a minimum, with younger children to consider, and definitely find a sanction (rather than idle threats) that you can follow-through with the following day if they're not being considerate.

Do your older 2 go up to bed at the same time? If so, maybe stagger their bedtime by half an hour or so. If they'd like a bedtime story, read to each of them for about 15-20 minutes, which they may enjoy a nice cuddle with. Keep lights down low, if you leave a landing light on, get a dimmer bulb, or have a dimmer switch.

Is there any chance they're being disturbed by household noises, like TV, dishwasher, people talking downstairs? I was acutely aware of this with my younger children, and left a radio tuned to classic FM on under their cots to provide constant background noise. They can sleep anywhere now! If it is downstairs noise, then the quiet story on a CD player/MP3, or even quiet, calming music could help them. They have to have a rule where they're not allowed to get out of bed at all, so no physical stimulus, and the lights have to be off.

I also adapted my son's diet, and didn't allow him to have any fruit squash or high sugar foods. He could have a glass of milk after his tea. I still don't allow my boys to have fizzy drinks or colas, and I only have decaf tea and coffee in the house. It hasn't stopped my 16 y/o walking in with energy drinks with caffeine though! Meh!