Need Some Advice Please *Updated*

[DaisyDoodles]

I'm due my second baby at the end of June, my first was 16 years ago and he was born at 37 weeks weighing 5lb 1oz.

Because of my sons low birth weight I was automatically scheduled extra growth scans and had my 28 week one yesterday... as with every appointment LO has measured correctly for her dates and I've had no problems other than a bleed at 9 weeks so when the consultant said everything was fine and I should book my hospital tour I told her I wanted a homebirth and OMG, her whole attitude just changed!!

She told me that having the baby at home when I'd already had a low birth weight baby was in her opinion dangerous, if LO needed resucitating (which wasn't needed with my son) then the MW's wouldn't have the equipment they needed whereas the hospital has everything to hand and she wouldn't recommend it! - I tried arguing that I only live 5 minutes from the hospital and that I was under the impression that MW's were trained to resucitate, but seeing as she'd just told me that there were no complications with the pregnancy, I didn't see that there was anymore risk for me than anyone else that gave birth at home at which point she snapped that she was putting it in my notes that she had advised me against it and shooed me out of the door!

I'm totally gutted and angry at her response, everything about this pregnancy is different to my first, this one was very much planned and prepared for whereas with my son, I was 5 months pregnant before I found out, I now work from home and can rest as and when I need whereas before I was running a pub and working 18 hour days...and diet wise.. with my first I lived on coke and crisps whereas this time I'm eating a completely healthy diet, the only thing healthwise they have against me is that I have rheumatoid arthritis, but even that has been under control for several years with no medication and up until I fell pregnant I ran on a regular basis with no problem at all!

I now have to try and convince my MW on Wednesday to support me and let me have a homebirth, but don't know whether she can go against the consultants advice? I managed to stay calm yesterday and get out of the consultants office before I burst into tears but I had my husband with me whereas Wednesday I'm going to have to go alone so need to be prepared!

Am I wrong in thinkning that a MW would be able to resucitate if needed? Our area has a dedicated homebirth team, so I was expecting it to be quite straightforward booking it!

Any advice on what I can expect or arguments I can use to help my case would be greatly appreciated, I desperately want to avoid going to hospital if at all possible.. obviously I would if there was a problem with LO but I get stressed enough just going for appointments!

 

[Bournefree]

You consultant has no idea how or what a home birth is clearly!

You have resus equipment for baby and for you at home, and all the appropriate drugs for emergency situations - Your home birth will be fully supported medically the same as a midwifery lead unit. So your consultant hasn't got a clue.

I do hope your MW is more supportive. As it seems arbitrary, that having confirmed you are NOT indicated to have a low weight baby, and your health is perfectly fine, that your consultant could possibly justify this conclusion. Phone and complain about your consultant, and get in contact with your Head of Midwifery.

You have a legal right to a home birth, they can't stop you.. they can only advise you )this advice should be balanced and inform you of any risks or benefits), and they have a duty in law to attend you in labour. So it is your decision, you don't need approval from anyone.
Plus just to label my point you CAN have a home birth even if it is against legitimate medical advice. (Which your medical advice hasn't been!)
Let us know how you get on - you are on my favourite subject and I'm furious on your behalf!
Xxx

 

[indigo_fairy]

Me too, where do these people get off being so rude to us? Their attitute is to patronise, judge and belittle. I'm having the same kind of problem, so I understand the frustration, even so I think I must have had a 'don't mess with me today' stamp on my forehead when I told my MW as she wasn't as bad as I had expected.

Just to repeat what Bourne has said really, that it is your choice where you birth and because you would have a midwife with you pretty much all the way through any problems I'm sure would be picked up on sooner anyway. In a relaxed environment at home is where I want to be, I also run my own business from home this time and get stressed out just going to appointments so I completely sympathise.

This website is good to have a look through https://www.homebirth.org.uk/

 

[DaisyDoodles]

Thank you both!

I've just read your replies to DH (he had originally agreed to HB if the doctors were ok with it, but even he was miffed with the consultants attitude!) he's now completely onboard again and is going to try and book Wednesday off to come with me, I've only seen this MW once before, but she seemed nice enough so fingers crossed she'll support me but if not, I'm determined to fight if necessary, I dont' see how the local authority can boast to having a home birth team if I can't use them!

Will let you know how I get on with MW, off to read up on that website as well Indigo, thank you!

 

[Jenniflower]

She told me that having the baby at home when I'd already had a low birth weight baby was in her opinion dangerous, if LO needed resucitating (which wasn't needed with my son) then the MW's wouldn't have the equipment they needed whereas the hospital has everything to hand and she wouldn't recommend it!

Wow this is incredibly ignorant for the consultant to make such a statement when she obviously doesn't have a clue. Now I suppose I can't speak for everything homebirth kit, but when mine was dropped off they also dropped off a resuc thingy for the baby and a can of oxygen that was labeled in black (there was also another can labeled in blue for me). My MW told me were she wanted it to be located and we kept it there (it was out of the way) for the big day. They have everything you need at home that they do in the hospital. This is a really ill informed consultant and I agree with Bourne I would call up and say something about her. Imagine her telling other women who aren't as confident as you are. That would scare me right off personally if I didn't know any better!

 

[DaisyDoodles]

Well, I saw my MW this morning and she was furious at what the consultant had said.. and referred me straight over to the homebirth team!!

I've just got to wait for them to get in touch now and do their assessment, but my MW said she could see no reason why they wouldn't accept me!

 

[Bournefree]

Absolutley! I really thought your MWs would be better placed for this - after all they are the bastians of normal birth!

Though I don't like the "why they shouldn't accept you" bit - but then, I know that they have to acept you and make plans for your care regardless of your medical situation.. they just have to let you know the limits of the care they can provide.

You have made a choice, they have to support it and accept it.

I've posted this on another lady's thread who is facing some difficulties.. it is appropriate here (if not more so)

Can I also offer in the following document from the Nursing and Midwifery Council. (they set the rules and statutory instruments under which Midwives by law should work)

“if a woman rejects your [the midwife’s] advice, you [the midwife] should seek further guidance from your supervisor of midwives to ensure that all possibilities have been explored and that the outcome is appropriately documented…You [the midwife] must continue to give the best care you possibly can…”7

https://www.nmc-uk.org/Documents/Co...e2SupportingWomenInTheirChoiceOfHomeBirth.pdf


it's not a long document (6 pages) and I suggest you should read it - you have the right to choice and to reject any advice your midwives present to you.

However, they do have a duty to present a balanced assessment of risk to you so YOU can make informed choices, but they can NOT make you make certain decisions, and they still have a duty to prepare the best possible care for you.

XxX

 

[Bournefree]

Double post

 

[indigo_fairy]

Bet that's a weight off your mind It's so great when you get a supportive MW!

 

[DaisyDoodles]

Thanks for that Bournefree, I think I may well print that off and have it handy when they assess me... I hadn't even realised the implications of the 'if they accept me' to be honest, I was so relieved that she'd referred me, but it does also state in my notes that 'no furthur appointments are required at the surgery unless I'm unsuitable for homebirth!'

It's definately a relief Indigo_fairy, but I'm not going to relax too much just yet, knowing my luck I'm still going to have to fight for this!

 

[Twinkle81]

Hi

Hi just thought I would let you know that I had a similar experience. I had a home birth with my 2nd and because of my BMI my original MW referred me to a consultant for a GTT. Anyway they put off referring me to the home birth team. After I passed my GTT the registrar that saw me basically gave me all the negatives about homebirths, told me all about post partum haemorrhaging, shoulder distorsia, also she told me that I would need to have an epidural as I had one with my daughter. When I told her that I didn’t she actually said yes you did. Like I would forget having an epidural…LOL she told me some other things as well that in the end had me in tears, luckily I had read up on the nice guidelines and it fully states that if you want a home birth then you are entitles to the free service from the nhs. I phoned the homebirth team direct and told them my problems and they fought for me to have my homebirth, I saw another consultant and she said she would completely support me and I got my nhs paid for home birth.

I have to say my nhs midwife was amazing and I still talk to her now she was there for me when ever I needed her. And though my appointments were once a month I could call her at any time day or night just to chat if I was nervous or had anything to worry about. She made me and my husband feel great about the homebirth.

Sadly she no longer works for my hospital and has moved on and this time I have a different nhs MW who is again amazing and I let my old mw know about the up coming birth and she wants to be there if its okay with me which I am very happy about. Even if my mw was with another pregnant woman when I go into labour they would send someone else.

The nhs does work but sometimes it only works if you know exactly what you are entitled to. Seriously guys you should read the NICE guidelines on pregnancy every NHS trust has to follow the guidelines!

Sorry about the long post

 

[Bournefree]

Great post Twinkle! So pleased that you got your home birth you knew you wanted and were entitled to.

What worries me, is how many women fall at the way-side in this horrible system of practice? I mean about 16% of the UK population of pregnant women start by wanting to have a home birth - current data is that only 2.8% are getting their home births; I know there will be other factors like medical condition where mum has decided to be in hospital, or the tiny amount that transfer in labour from home.. but still, it is a massive drop in numbers, and I can only think that alot of it is due to ignorance of staff and their underhand bullying tactics. The farcical bit is, I bet they don't even see it as bullying, they prob think they are going the "extra mile" to forewarn.. but some of it is blatantly NOT even true, which is reprehensible!
XxX

 

[SkyBaby]

The sonographer (sp?) who did my scan advised against a homebirth as she said mw would not be able to resuscitate a baby. Everything I have read disagrees with this. Why do people keep saying rubbish like this? Up until today everyone had been so negative about me having a homebirth, then the midwife I saw today was so keen and supportive and I feel much happier now.

 

[indigo_fairy]

The sonographer (sp?) who did my scan advised against a homebirth as she said mw would not be able to resuscitate a baby. Everything I have read disagrees with this. Why do people keep saying rubbish like this? Up until today everyone had been so negative about me having a homebirth, then the midwife I saw today was so keen and supportive and I feel much happier now.

I don't even tell anyone that doesn't need to know I'm planning a homebirth for the exact reason you've got here... I don't need anyone's approval or negativity for that matter I think alot of people are just scared of birth and think it should be monitored in a hospital type environment where all the 'terrible' what if's can be sorted out quickly. We've been conditioned to think like this from a young age, and unless you do the research and open your own mind you might never know that it doesn't have to be that way.

And what rubbish about a midwife not being able to resuscitate a baby? The sonographer obviously has a lot of faith in the staff she works along side with! Great that your MW is supportive and you feel happier now, the more your confidence is built up the easier it'll be to dismiss negative comments

 

[SkyBaby]

Yes, I feel much better. I had already learnt not to mention it to other people, my husband brought it up!

 

[indigo_fairy]

Yes, I feel much better. I had already learnt not to mention it to other people, my husband brought it up!

lol think mine knows to keep quiet about our birthing plans, but now you've mentioned it I might just have to make sure!

 

[Twinkle81]

Hi guys

Bournefree I had seen those statistics and I couldn’t believe it. Even after I had the registrar say all of those awful things to me I still went ahead with my HB however what I said to the MW was exactly what you have just stated. That how many other women are put off with all these comments luckily I wasn’t one of them but there are people who aren’t like me and have done their research (as I am a bit anal like that and like to look all these things up) and they are scared of having the HB because of these so called medical professionals who don’t agree with it.

I think that is should be looked into seriously. And now again luckily I am having another HB but I am ready for anyone who tries to scare me off. Though I would like to see I am not totally blinded and if there was a serious medical issue I would be the first to book myself into hospital. But all the shoulda coulda woulda’s really get on my nerves!!!

The NICE guidelines for pregnancy in section 3.3 it states “These risks and the additional care that can be provided in the obstetric unit should be discussed with the woman so that she can make an informed choice about place of birth.”

Just so you know !

 

[Rmar]

Just some input into the whole resusitation thing.

The machines they have at the hospital are similar to the ones used on an asthmatic patient who is having trouble breathing except made for a newborn. They hold the airways open with pressure while oxygen is provided where a regular hand held resus does not keep the airways open as well. In a hospital, they are kept outside of the rooms and are hardly every used. In a high risk hospital that has about 4000 births a year, they might use it 5 times a year in full term births. This would account for those high risk babies. Any other type of resus, the hand held is used. It is much more mother-baby friendly and these are the ones that midwives are trained to use at home if they are ever needed.

 

[DaisyDoodles]

Well I've just had my homebirth MW visit and I'm sooo relieved to be able to say that she's happy to support me!!

She too was furious with what the registrar said about resusitation, particularily as they've recently been giving talks to the registrars adn consultants and homebirth requests are supposed to be supported.


She said pretty much what Rmar has said that the hospital had mechanical resus and the MW's carried hand held ... but in the case of an emergency then the ambulance crew would have mechanical equipment onboard anyway!

She suggested I wait until after LO arrives (just in case I end up having to deliver in hospital) and then pop a letter in the post to air my grievances with them.

And having a homebirth means that I now know who will be here on the day, there's only 2 MW's, they're both lovely and I'm already feeling soo much calmer about the whole pregnancy!

 

[rachiedata]

Fantastic news Daisy! I second (third fourth and fifth!) all the above comments that we know what we're entitled to and only make up that 2% of all births in the UK... so sad for the other 14% who either aren't told what they're entitled to or are put off by 'professionals'! Imagine if the rate got over 15 or 20%, it would then become a very normal thing, we all would know someone else personally who'd done it, and it becomes a cycle because we are social, conformist animals at heart and therefore even more common to have your baby at home!

I also had a great midwife appointment yesterday, all forms completed, 36 week home visit arranged, baby head down, healthy and happy and so am I... so what's holding me up... bloody parking!! We don't have an allocated space in the garage in our block, and the road is single yellows and the midwife went to great lengths explaining exactly how long they're permitted to park on single yellows for, ARGH! I'll have to get on it next week, ask the caretaker for the loan of a space in the garage, check the actual restriction on street parking with the council etc. etc... I mean I would be annoyed but it is such a minor silly little thing to get around compared to the real fights I have read about on this forum, just for people to get what they're entitled to.

As far as telling people the plans for home birth, I'm getting more confident with telling people at work for example, and more general acquaintances. I think if it even plants a seed in someone's head that it's a normal thing to do (I'm not a weird hippy honest, type thoughts!) then it'd make me feel good.