Nursery made me look at photo of scratch mark - update

[minkymoo]

HI all

I'll try to keep this short.

My DD has been at her nursery for approx 15 months. A very expensive one at that. When she first started she was bitten quite regularly and I found this upsetting. However, since she turned about 19 months the tables turned and she started to bite. She's 24 months now and for the most part the biting has stopped but she still lashes out with her hands if anyone invades her space/toys.

Yesterday I went to collect her to be told she had scratched another child over a toy. I am not at all upset at her about what she's done as I understand this can be a normal part of development etc. What's really upset me is that the nursery made me look at a photo of the injury on the other child, apparently at the parents' request. It didn't look nice but I really don't think it was appropriate to show me and left me in tears for most of the night. What did they want me to do/say??? I asked them this and was told 'we generally do this, and the other parent asked us to make sure you saw it'. I corrected them on the 'generally' do this as I have never seen a photo of anything else she's done, but they don't seem to have an answer. I told them it seemed like a barbaric think to do to a parent.

Has this happened to anyone else, is this normal, or am I right to be outraged? I really don't see what purpose it served other than to make me feel to blame for something that happened in THEIR care.

Thanks

 

[pinkribbon]

That seems really strange. My son goes to a playgroup twice a week and when I collect him if he's had an injury I've just been told he has one and given the paperwork saying what happened and what action was taken. He's never bitten or scratched anyone else but he has hit (yet at least ) and they have never made a big deal over it. I've just asked how he's got on an they'll say oh he had a time out in the chair etc but they never make a song and dance about it? This sounds like the other parents doing rather than the nursery's to me

 

[Leeny]

I'll be honest-I'd be horrified if my daughters nursery thought that to be appropriate. My daughter has gone through biting and hitting and it was so upsetting but on the other side she has been bitten and hit (strangely not as upsetting). Nor for a second would I want another parent shown what is probably a superficial injury that is par for the course when numbers of small children are spending all day with each other. As far as I can tell nothing can be gained from showing a photo, or even taking one. I can sympathise with the feeling s of blame though, I hate hearing when my LO has misbehaved but as you said it's all just normal development stuff

 

[minkymoo]

Thanks. That did cross my mind but then I think they should have refused to show me, as it's not going to help anyone, and just told them that I would be made aware of its severity. iykwim?

 

[Cat lady]

I agree with you, I think its bloody inappropriate. Why on earth did they or the other parent think you would benefit from seeing a scratch on another child, yes it may have been inflicted by your child but quite frankly she was in their care. One might argue that they obviously were not paying enough attention to the children to notice things were getting out of hand. I would definitely speak to the nursery manager and say you feel like your are being targeted, and ask them outright if they are still happy to provide your daughters care, if they are not, you will find somewhere else for her.

Just a quick extra, if she is a scratcher/pincher etc (Some children are and just go through this phase) maybe ensure her nails are always very short. My son is a pusher, when I pick him up from the cm, I am often told he has had a clash with one of the other little boys, he has had the odd scratch on his cheek. The other little boy is obviously a hitter! But at the end of the day kids will be kids and the only way they learn to interact and behave around children is to do it and then be corrected.
xxx

 

[charlotte-xo]

That's awful all toddlers go through little phases of hitting, shoving or biting. No it's not nice to hear your child's been bitten or scratched Alfie's been bitten once sat nursery they told me And I signed something to say I'd been made aware of it never would I want that little girls parents to see a photo of it, completely uncalled for. I hope their little one neve bites someone and is made to see pictures

Xx

 

[smokey]

I can slightly understand why, my sil is a nursery manager and often when they talk to a parent about their child hitting, biting or scratching another you would be surprised the amount of parents that do not want to exept that their child could or would do such a thing.
The amount of times she has heard things like "no my little angel wouldnt do that" sort of response either because they have never seen their child act that way or through pure ignorance that its going on.
So many deny it could be their child or it was as bad as made out or even happened.
It does sound more like the parents doing then the nurserys though, tbh I may of done the same (never been in that situation yet) just to be sure the other parents are taking it seriously and not just passing it off as nothing.

 

[minkymoo]

Thanks girls. I have always taken on board any comments they've made and never denied that it my DD has done whatever they've said. They told me she had never 'attacked' this child before, this is the first time. I spoke with their early years co-ordinator 2 months ago, who was supposed to observe the room/my DD to see if there was a trigger. This has not happened, and yes, I do feel singled out. I consider that I've done my part. I still feel that even if the parent requested I see it that they should've refused. It serves no purpose other than to upset me.

I've just spoken to Ofsted who inform me that it's inappropriate and also potentially a breach of confidentially on the part of the other child, even with the implied permission of the parent.

 

[RedRose]

Yeah I don't really see the point in showing you a picture- we all know what a scratch looks like.

I agree it sounds like the nursery are just trying to appease the other parents.

 

[pinkribbon]

'attacked'?! I highly doubt she set out to attack this child! My son is a hitter (often when he is tired/frustrated) but I don't think children this young have any concept of setting out to attack another?

I think even the language they chose to use was a bit wrong!

 

[tommyg]

Moo tbh I would consider another nursery. You just seem to have so many problems there.

Out of curiosity whats their policy on toys, are kids encouraged to 'share' or are they not allowed to pester / try to take a toy another child is playing with?

I might just be lucky but i've been told nobody will take a toy from DS but at the same time he won't take a toy from another child.

 

[sbl]

As someone who has worked in quite a few creches I can say that this is most def wrong and is gross misconduct on the part of your childcare provider.

Generally if parents are upset about another child biting/scratching a child I would've said that I will speak to the parent in question about the incident and ask them to speak with their child about it and fill out a report etc. As your child is still quite young it would be very difficult for you to do this but it must always be brought to the parents attention.

In my opinion what happened here was that the parents of the scratched child were very annoyed and probably demanded this of your childcare provider. Which is ridiculous, as everyone know's children of this age scratch/bite/kick/hit it happens allot!!
Parents get p***ed off and they take it out on staff but this is not the way to deal with it at all and you are well within your rights to make a complaint.

 

[RachA]

Double post!

 

[RachA]

Thanks. That did cross my mind but then I think they should have refused to show me, as it's not going to help anyone, and just told them that I would be made aware of its severity. iykwim?

It will be because the parents insisted on it being done.
The nursery can't refuse as that makes it looks like they are not dealing with it. You'll find that more things like this happen as they start school as they have to be seen to be dealing with issues even if they dont see there is a problem.

 

[fantastica]

That seems ridiculous, more so for the parents to want you to see it. Seriously, what's the point? They should have dealt with the incident, told both sets of parents just because and then left it at that. What do they want you to do about it really? With a child that young, once the incident has happened and been dealt with, she wouldn't understand if you started bringing it up when you got home, it's over as far as she's concerned. I'd consider having another word with them.

 

[liz1985]

Thanks. That did cross my mind but then I think they should have refused to show me, as it's not going to help anyone, and just told them that I would be made aware of its severity. iykwim?

It will be because the parents insisted on it being done.
The nursery can't refuse as that makes it looks like they are not dealing with it. You'll find that more things like this happen as they start school as they have to be seen to be dealing with issues even if they dont see there is a problem.

The nursery can refuse. I work in a nursery, and we would never even take a picture of a child's injury to begin with, unless we believed there to be a child protection issue.

Parents often get upsett when their child has been hurt, espessialy bites and scratches as they always look nasty, and often want to know which child did it, but you can't even tell them that, it's all confidential.

You should definitely make a complaint. Yes you should be informed but the way they did it was compleaty inappropriate.

 

[MrsT&Ben]

That is terrible! What parent would want tht?? My lo get bitten/pinched but I would never want the other parent to see my boys injury!
I know it's just one of those things and really what can you say to a small child about it?? They don't understand that it's just frustration! This nursery sounds pretty rubbish in my book. Hugs!

 

[XJessicaX]

Some parents believe that biting/scratching is down to a failing of the childs parents. Of course their little darlings wouldn't inflict anything but kisses on another child. I presume requesting the nursery to show you the photo WAS to upset you and for you to deal with your child at home. I think it was unnecessary and I would be interested to see how they would react when their child does the same.

 

[Gingerspice]

I can kind of see from a parent of a child who frequently was on the receiving end of injuries (mostly from one particular child) I did wonder if the parent was ever made aware of the actual injury other than being told 'they scratched A today'. A few times the injuries were bad and I was very unhappy at the nursery for feeling like there was no progress. I can understand children go through biting episodes and equaly scratching, but there was a huge issue of it in this room. I felt the nursery should have been doing more to make parents aware of things they COULd do. Such as, ensuring childrens nails are cut prior to comnig to nursery. Making sure there wasn't talons or hanging nails etc to really cause damage.

Having said all that, I grew up surrounded by children, my mums a childminder I've seen it all. So I over rode all that knowing it was a phase and just part of growing up so despite being pretty upset a few times it was of no benefit to then cause any confrontation. I felt sorry for the parents (LO told me who had harmed her every time - nursery won't say understandably) I had the feeling they'd try to avoid me for fear of me ranting at them for their child.

As far as I'm concerned, although there may be elements of parental responsibility (such as making sure nails are cut etc) then those children are in the care of the nursery. If any failure has occured it lies with the nursery. They're the ones there watching, seeing the build up and should be intervening. They want to cover their backs and be able to lay blame elsewhere but it should be those providers who feel bad knowing that they allowed an injury to occur. Thats just partof their job to handle that kind of responsibilty.

I never did raise is dircet with the parent. there wasn't any point. I very nearly did take up procedures of complaint with the nursery though because daily accident forms for months should never be considered acceptable.

sorry turned into a personal rant there - I'm trying to say I can symphphise with the parents demanding that of the nursery but it ultimately had no benefit and so to have followed it through was silly onthe nursery part.

 

[minkymoo]

Thanks again all. I've made a complaint and am awaiting a response now. I really do not see the point of it all, and I was made to look at it in a room full of people. Another nursery nurse had to console me in the reception area afterwards. I'm disgusted.

Gingerspice - I know exactly what you mean. When Niamh was being bitten etc, the first time I did ask 'who was it', not to go and have a go at the parents, just that it was a natural reaction iykwim? I totally understood why they couldn't tell me, and agree it would be counterproductive to do so. I was signing that book most days for at least a couple of months and she has a nasty scar on her arm as a result of one bite. I was upset at the time but she has absolutely no memory of it, and I never EVER blamed the parents, more the nursery for knowing they had a repeat offender and not implementing measures to prevent it i.e. shadowing etc. If they know my daughter reacts when cornered, then don't let her be cornered and help her deal with her frustration etc, just like I try to do and nobody pays me for it lol.