off topic... affording more children

[justkitty]

I have a dear friend who has 2 beautiful boys 4&1. Unfortunately she can barely afford them as it is. She was complaining about not being able to afford shoes for her 1yr old and her dh was selling his dvds to pay the gas bill. He works but is on a low salary. She stays at home and receives benefits. Previously she earned a good salary but if she returnef to work full time by the time she'd paid for childcare she would be only £50 better off than now and her dh won't contribute towards childcare. But she wants to return to work once baby goes to school.

Anyway they are now talking about having a third baby. So it would have to be soon and she would stay at home until baby no.3 went to school. She also recently called me crying saying she felt bad for a 4yr old who was missing out on group friend trips to legoland etc and how she is worried about not having money for xmas and how they keep getting final demands on bils etc. I did give her support but I also said she didn't need sky, they didn't need two new beds in the house just because her 4 year old wanted a car bed for his birthday (cost £400) and on pay monthly scheme. She got a bit upset with me :0 (

Anyway not a question about judging my friend but more general. If you have children but cannot afford them already do you think you should have more?

 

[Prinny]

I think this Is a hard one I'd personally say no but then people do, in my situation I don't have all the money in the world and me and my OH work externally hard to have the things we do have and to give our son nice things...I've heard some women say if we waited until we could "afford" kids then no one would ever get round to having them, which is slightly true...but I do agree yes maybe we shouldn't have more kids if you can't afford the ones you already have...just my opinion but unfortunately I'm sure there are more people who can't generally afford to have children that choose to have them then the people that can...you may aswell say anyone who gets any kind of government help (as in tax credits or housing help anything where the government give you money) then you can't afford to have children...to me affording children would be where you and your partner pay every little thing yourself without any kind of help...lol but that just isn't the case for many families and people will still choose to have babies because that's what they want I guess..x

 

[embeth]

Its a hard one. Some people are really not very good with managing money. My brother and his partner don't have kids at the moment but I dread to think what will happen when they do as they earn a good salary but are forever in debt and have no money, they literally do not understand the concept of managing money and spending to your means. Personally I don't think people should keep having children if they are already struggling. I am about to have our third, we are very comfortable and the don't go without but this will be the last as I want to stay that way. However if they aren't depending on handouts etc then who's to say they shouldn't have more children, they know the financial implications of another child so suppose its their choice. Kind of subject that I suppose is completely down to personal opinion. xxx

 

[Prinny]

Forgot to add, I do also think there's a difference in affording them and not because remember people don't have to buy the best things for their children, they could have clothes, food and home a holiday once or twice a year but they don't have to have the best there are cheaper options it's like buying your child a brand of show or a cheap shoe, but of course most people want to give there children the best so if in that circumstance of giving the child the best holidays, more expensive clothing etc...I personally wouldnt but I know that isnt important to everyone..x

 

[EstelSeren]

I'm currently pregnant with my 2nd and we'd love to have 4 children in total. We're getting along OK and know that we can definitely afford a 2nd on our current income but we also know that we couldn't afford more at the moment, mostly as we couldn't afford to move to a larger house with higher rent! It's been really hard to come to terms with the fact that we'll have to put our family on hold once we have this baby but it's the realistic option! Luckily I've found this pregnancy much harder and think my body would thank me for waiting at least 18 months before considering trying for another, which makes things easier, but it's difficult as we're expecting another girl and would love a son! We'll see how long this resolve lasts as we tend to think mostly with our hearts rather than our heads when I comes to children, although I do intend to get a 3 year copper coil fitted asap after baby's born so we might well wait until that's ready to be removed and then just let nature take it's course! Basically, in answer to your question, I do feel that it's best to wait until you can provide at least the necessary basics if not the exact quality of life you want for your children before actively ttc/ knowingly not prevent another! Accidents are a different matter of course!

Beca :wave:

 

[SurpriseMom2B]

I think this topic is a double edged blade. I do think if you wait until you can afford children, it will never happen. But that said I know so many people who cry about how costly their kids are and how they can't afford certain things for their children, but then they turn around and treat themselves to expensive things! Use you head people, your children and their needs should come first, not you new brand name clothes or brand new car!!! But there is nothing any one else can do to stop them from acting the way the do sadly.

Myself personally, we did wait a couple years for children because I always said I wanted to he able to provide what ever I felt my child needed plus more without having to compromise on the things I buy myself that are unnecessary.... Yeah well, that totally isn't gonna happen lol. Yes, my child will (hopefully) grow up with out ever knowing the feeling of having to do with out because Mommy and Daddy can't afford something. But I see my expensive taste changing already, andi haven't even had Monster yet! Now when it comes down to splurging on myself or Monster, he always seems to win out lol. But I forecast that as long as we stay where we are financially we will never have to choose between our child's wants/needs and a utility bill, we are lucky to live a comfortable lifestyle (not extravagant or over the top), where Hubby and I both can afford decently nice things and have money left over for the fun little things every so often, and for that I am so thankful!

 

[Glitter_berry]

This is something my DH and I have talked about..

My DD has always had everything she needs and more..
This new baby, we can afford to spend money on him, but we CHOOSE to be thrifty and have already bought everything he NEEDS only ( with the exception of clothes they were pure cute factor) and the rest have been hand me downs or necessity only because we learned what we do and don't need when we had our DD.

We have bought him a bouncer and a balapalooza for Christmas and a small gift from dd ( maybe some clothes if he needs new ones) but that will be it because he won't remember.

DD hasn't expressed interest in anything "new" or something the spoil bugger hasn't got yet so we haven't started on hers.

But DH and I have decided this will be our last child because, unless things pile on we can afford to live and treat / spoil two children AND have all our bills paid.

We won't bring a 3rd child into the mix unless DH gets a better paying job, or I have been back at work for a few years..

 

[steph.]

I think if people can't afford the basics like food, shoes, rent, and bills and have to rely on benefits then they shouldn't have more children. It's not fair on anyone really.

 

[jojo_b]

If one of them is working, I think it's fine that they are getting benefits...I know it's judgey but I get really annoyed when neither work and pop kids out with no thought about the fact that other people are funding them. That drives me mad.
I kinda think in your friend's case, she needs to make the decision - either have kids and accept you'll be skint and need to budget carefully without whinging, OR no more kids. She can't really keep having kids then be shocked when she can't afford stuff for them. In her situation, personally there's no way I'd have more. I wouldn't have even had a second. Money isn't everything - of course it isn't - but I'd hate to think my kids would miss out on trips etc because I couldn't afford them after making silly financial decisions. Having said that, school has a contingency budget for cases like hers x

 

[Toms Mummy]

I think you were right to say to her that she doesn't need sky, or a bed for £400! Esp for a child!..... Sky is sooo expensive and a complete luxury considering the amount of channels on freeview now!

I agree with Jojo about people on benefits. It's obvious that you can't afford a family if both of you are on benefits and not working before you have children, and that one parent doesn't have a job when child comes along.

But on the other hand, benefits are there to help families. I my case, I am a sahm and my OH is our only source of income. We are not on benefits but that's because we choose not to be rather than not being entitled to anything. We do struggle, but because we don't use benefits we have become more frugal... I buy off ebay etc... But all of our bills are paid. (If I were recieving benefits then our costs would be a lot more managable, but because OH is self employed and doesn't have a set salary, the entitlement kept fluctuating too much that we just got stressed!) I feel skint and like we can't afford children. BUT, we're only skint for the 1st 4 yrs of our child's life and then they go to school, I go back to work and all of a sudden we go from being skint and not affording new shoes, to having 2 good incomes, no childcare costs and being able to go on holiday again!

 

[PreggyEggy]

To be honest, it sounds to me like she could afford another child if she prioritised her money properly. People who are hard up for money don't have sky and buy £400 beds! They don't sound like they are very good with money...perhaps they need to sort themselves out financially by learning about budgeting and finances before they embark on another child. There is never, ever a good time to have a child financially though is there?

To me, babies are as expensive as you want them to be. Children too. It's nice to buy our kids expensive toys and designer clothes, but do they need them? Nope.

My DH works hard and has a good job, but I don't and we receive help from the government to get by. We're having another baby. I stay at home as a choice, not just because I think it's rather odd that the government would rather give me help to pay for someone else to look after my child while I worked, but because I believe I am actually contributing to society by looking after my children myself. It won't always be this way, I am also studying with the OU to get a degree and help me get a good job when my children are in school. Then I'll be working and will contribute tax myself, and when that happens I'll be proud that I'll be contributing to society to enable the government to support more young families like ourselves, and to support others who need it.

I really do think that finances and budgeting should be taught in school. Forgive me if they are now, but they weren't when I was in school and I had to learn the hard way!

 

[laila 44]

If my husband had to sell dvd's to afford gas then there's no way I would have another child.

 

[jojo_b]

Finances and budgeting are taught at secondary school but (IMHO) not in as much detail as they need to be.

 

[Maze]

I do think affordability of children is completely a matter of opinion/perspective. I know some who think that they need to be able to pay for each child's entire college/university education, that they should be able to afford tuition for them to attend private schools as children. That you should be able to do all that while owning a massive home, take vacations, own two luxury cars etc.

I grew up in a household that had a ton of income, it certainly was never paycheck to paycheck and there were never 'close call' months. As a result, my dad has some pretty strict ideas on what kind of lifestyle you have and how that indicates the amount of children you can afford.

I am pregnant with my third and despite that we own a 4 bedroom house (not massive, a century home that needs some reno) two cars (not luxury, bought preowned) and are able to go on trips, pay debt, and give our children nice birthdays/christmas.... he believes that since we can't own luxury EVERYTHING that it means we had no business having more than one.

I too have to stay home with the kids because it doesn't make sense to pay for childcare. My husband works at a mid-salary position, and we receive children's tax benefits monthly from the Canadian government. (These are just essentially monthly tax refunds for people within certain income brackets who have children.) I think ultimately it is all how you prioritize, save and manage debt... and also accepting that the best of the best is not always what is going to make you or your family happy.

It does sound to me that your friend needs to learn how to budget and manage her money before considering a third, but I bet she can probably afford a third if she were willing to make certain changes.

 

[6lilpigs]

I think people who buy a 4yr old a £400 bed whilst needing to sell cd' for gas shouldn't be having more children, that doesnt sound fully sensible to me? Even a 2nd hand one off of ebay would have shown a little more sense. And Im the worlds worst for telling everyone to have more kids!

 

[angelandbump]

To cut a long story short no me and my OH can not afford another baby.

We both work full time and earn a combined total (before tax) 35k a year but we have to pay for private child care (more then half my wage pays for my sons care alone!). We have a mortgage, car and all house hold bills to pay for. We would have loved another baby but we know we cant afford one.

I am being very careful as to what I write as I have a very strong opinion of non working families who choose to expand their family while on benefits but that's a whole different debate! x

 

[angelandbump]

Finances and budgeting are taught at secondary school but (IMHO) not in as much detail as they need to be.

This wasn't taught at my school but I wish it was! My OH is a banker and is amazing with budgeting where as I am regrettably not.
x

 

[Dream.dream]

Personally I don't think if your on benefits or receiving government money you should plan another baby. Of you can't afford your bills alone you certainly shouldn't be planning another child. It's your job to provide for your children and its one thing to fall on hard times and need government help but not to plan your family using governmt assistance as your income

 

[Maze]

Personally I don't think if your on benefits or receiving government money you should plan another baby. Of you can't afford your bills alone you certainly shouldn't be planning another child. It's your job to provide for your children and its one thing to fall on hard times and need government help but not to plan your family using governmt assistance as your income

In Canada don't most families receive monthly benefits when they have kids? In Ontario the average family receives the Child Tax Benefit and Universal Care benefit, the amount may vary on what you make of course and how many dependents you have. I just... don't know anyone who doesn't receive any government money who have dependents in this country. My husband makes 40k a year and we still receive benefits. I don't mean to start a debate about things like social assistance programs (unemployment/welfare) I am just confused by the statement since you're also in Canada.

 

[kit10grl]

Without being rude to anyone I don't feel its anyones right to say who should or shouldn't have a baby.

I worked a well paid salaried job before DD was born. DH also worked. We were both just made redundant. Dh is currently looking for a job. I am not as DD needs a full time carer at home and even if I could work and afford childcare No one locally would be bale to meet her needs as she requires a nursing input to her care.

We are both receiving benefits, Dh until he finds a job. I will receive carers allowance till DD is in school most likely which is when I would be able to return to work. However we would still be having government assistance as DD receives DLA and when she is three will get mobility components as well. Should I now be barred from having any more children because My second child was born with special needs?

We aren't definitely planning a third but why should someone else have the right to decide for me?