oh my wisest sounding board

[reallyready]

Hey you all
Quickly a brief of my sitch: We are trying to decide if we do lap first for endometriosis or two rounds of IVF first. Am 39 with mid range egg reserve.

Today I've dreamed up this plan. I am waiting for my dr to call me back to review it with her but wanted to run it by you all too.

I'm thinking maybe to go ahead with the laporoscopy asap and if by January we haven't conceived to go with two rounds of IVF.

Do you think this is realistic timing wise or will my body need more time to heal after lap before it's even possible to conceive?

Having read that some women will conceive directly after lap and some up to 9 months after, I'm thinking it might be a gamble, but wanted to run it around the block anyway.

What do you think? You all, I have no one to talk about this with other than DH and he can only want to talk so much. I feel like I'm on an island with this emotionally. I would greatly appreciate your thoughts/advice. Thank you.

straw grasping ,
RR

 

[wishn2Bmom]

Quick question....

Do you know for sure that your troubles conceiving are solely you? Has DH been tested?

If it is just you and the problem it the endometriosis then I personally think that it's not a bad idea (what you came up with). If you have endo then a lap is something that will benefit you anyway, and if that is your problem then your likelihood of conceiving post surgery goes up. A lot. I had a lap done in May and was told by the doctor that BD is out of the question for several weeks post surgery while you heal, but that the 3 or so months post surgery is when your body would be at it's best for conceiving. We did the lap then tried to several months only to find out after some misfortune that my husband has some pretty severe issues himself. So I would definitely have him checked out first if you haven't already

I also thought you might enjoy this story.....https://www.popeater.com/2009/10/01/padma-lakshmi-pregnant-with-miracle-baby?icid=main|main|dl2|link4|https%3A%2F%2Fwww.popeater.com%2F2009%2F10%2F01%2Fpadma-lakshmi-pregnant-with-miracle-baby

 

[reallyready]

Thanks wishn2bmom!

DH clears all test with flying colors.

Thanks for posting article. Maybe endo can get some popular culture play so more women can be aware -> more aware than I've been. Wonder if she had a lap or ivf? With a celebrity it's hard to tell what is true because of agent/career concerns etc.

xxx

 

[wishn2Bmom]

yea, it doesn't say what she went through to get there, but it calls her baby a "miracle". I know a lot of the battle with endo is not just conceiving but maintaining a pregnancy. Maybe that's the miracle! Who knows, but either way its inspiring

 

[reallyready]

so true, inspiring all the same. thanks for posting!

 

[brumbar]

Hey really ready. I'd check with the doc how long would it take to recover after the lap. My endo specialist said 3 cycles no Ttc...i know its probably less but it would depemd on the individual. If the problem is just you and not OH than lap sounds good... Do you know for sure that you have endo or is it just for diagnostic purposes? x

 

[reallyready]

Hey really ready. I'd check with the doc how long would it take to recover after the lap. My endo specialist said 3 cycles no Ttc...i know its probably less but it would depemd on the individual. If the problem is just you and not OH than lap sounds good... Do you know for sure that you have endo or is it just for diagnostic purposes? x

Hi Brumbar
Oh, see three cycles may be too long to wait.
Since I'm 39 with a mid range egg reserve the RE said my chances would significantly decrease every six months. I do have a call into dr for that and other follow up questions tho'.
I have all the symptoms of endo and an exam led her to believe I do have it. Though I've not had the lap to determine with certainty.

xxx

 

[glitterqueen]

Reallyready
I am in exactly the same position as you-just been told by FS that if I go for ivf to have it sooner than later but I have an lap booked for 29th Oct. He said if I was going for the ivf route I didn't need this done but I am pretty sure I have endo and my thinking is that ' a good clear out' is bound to be beneficial. So we are going to try to xmas then look at ivf in New Year but I am also woried bout time as I turn 41 in Dec. My FSH level is 9.6 which is uooer end of normal according to doc. Just so worried I have left everything so late!

 

[reallyready]

Glitterqueen
Wow, are we in the same boat or what?

Here's a good giggle, when I just read your message to DH he started dancing a little and singing "You are not alone...." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8rYl6K2STc
Hee hee.

I read a book by Julia Indochiva titled, Inconceivable, that you may want to read. She was 42 when she was trying. She actually was turned away from the IVF specialists because of her FSH level, but with a change in diet, meditation, and yoga she brought her level down and conceived.

It was really an encouraging book to read and I've been thinking back to it with this decision on our plate right now. The RE was so insistent that I shouldn't wait 6 more months because of my egg reserve. He wrote AGE at the top of a page of notes he'd written out for us. AGE in red pencil. Boooooo, so negative!

But I keep thinking back that having the lap first makes more sense to me. How did you come to decide to do lap first? or are you still deciding?

xxx

 

[glitterqueen]

Hi reallyready
U have made my day!!!
I have been having really bad period pains since I was 35 and have been going to a gynae covinced I had endo but he just kept putting me off so I asked for a different guy and within a 5 min conversation he had me booked in.
apart from the fertility issue I just can't go on with the pain every month any more. I was told I had IBS and when I went on the endo web site it said that most women with endo r told its IBS and it takes the average woman 8 years of going to a doc before she is diagnosed with endo!! if it was men who suffered from these things...............don't get me started!
My friend had 5 failed attempts at IVF and unfortunately she was diagonosed with cervical cancer last year. when the doc went in to operate he said that she should have had a D and C years ago as she was never going to carry a child with the state of her womb-nothing to do with the cancer just a lot of build up from past pregnancies which was never treated after the miscarrages thats why I don't buy that it doesn't matter. My own GP told me that there is statistically not that much difference in ability to conceive once you hit 40 buy my fertility doc said ivf sooner rather than later
Sorry for such a long post but its nice to talk to someone who understands x

 

[reallyready]

Hi Glitterqueen,

It's so true. It does feel really good to meet someone making the same decision at the same time for the exact same reasons! And don't worry about being long winded. If you go to my journal you will see I win that prize. He he.

I'm so sorry for your friend. Is she doing okay now?

I too have had painful af for a long time. I think that I was too passive all these years, I should have been more proactive about my health but since I wasn't ttc, I didn't spend enough time thinking about it. I was thinking about a lot of other stuff tho'!

RR

 

[wishn2Bmom]

I Don't know if this even makes any sense or not, but before you do the lap could they go ahead and do and egg retrieval? That way the time issue isn't QUITE as much of a worry??? The thing is if you ladies have moderate to severe endo in there you may not be able to maintain a pregnancy, as that is one of the biggest risks in women with endo (especially if its located behind your uterus).

Like I said, I don't know if doing an egg retrieval makes sense, but if your stores of eggs are decreasing in # and quality and time is off the essence, then maybe? Who knows, just and thought.

 

[reallyready]

I Don't know if this even makes any sense or not, but before you do the lap could they go ahead and do and egg retrieval? That way the time issue isn't QUITE as much of a worry??? The thing is if you ladies have moderate to severe endo in there you may not be able to maintain a pregnancy, as that is one of the biggest risks in women with endo (especially if its located behind your uterus).

Like I said, I don't know if doing an egg retrieval makes sense, but if your stores of eggs are decreasing in # and quality and time is off the essence, then maybe? Who knows, just and thought.

Thanks! That is another question for me to ask. Good thinking about egg retrieval. Thanks for bringing it up.
What do you mean about endo behind is the kind that affects keeping pregnancy? That is exactly where we think I have it, in the perineum. It was the only area that was painful in the full body exam.

 

[glitterqueen]

I Don't know if this even makes any sense or not, but before you do the lap could they go ahead and do and egg retrieval? That way the time issue isn't QUITE as much of a worry??? The thing is if you ladies have moderate to severe endo in there you may not be able to maintain a pregnancy, as that is one of the biggest risks in women with endo (especially if its located behind your uterus).

Like I said, I don't know if doing an egg retrieval makes sense, but if your stores of eggs are decreasing in # and quality and time is off the essence, then maybe? Who knows, just and thought.

good idea-I never thought of that although will they have to freeze them> Even so good thinking.
really ready spot on again I wish I had pushed the endo theory harder but my doc just kept saying go try for another 6 months and come back and because of him delaying everything I have to fund my ivf myself-if he had refered me even 6 months earlier I would have qualified on the NHS In fact he didn't refer me I went back to my GP and insisted I was refered to fertility specalist. My friend is fine now she had stage 3 cervical cancer and the operated to remove cancer cells from womb but she didn't need chemo and nearly a year on she is fine. She actually adopted a boy after her failed ivf.
I got a book by Sarah Dobbyn the fertility diet-how to maximize your chances of having a baby at any age-it is good and makes you feel positive bout having babies in you 40's-not that you are there yet!!!
Keep in touch and I will keep you posted if I get any more info x

 

[reallyready]

dude, the dr. not sending you in time for NHS funding makes me want to tear my hair out!
let's keep in touch over these next few months.
in scheduling your lap did you do it around your cycle?

 

[wishn2Bmom]

It doesn't matter what time in your cycle you are for the lap. I had mine done when I was actually on my period. It had no effect on the surgery, but it did make me feel kind of weird.
Also, as for the endo and miscarriages....
Having endo makes your risk of having a miscarriage go up no matter where it's located (i'm not really clear on why that is). However my doc told me that having significant endometrial tissue behind my uterus made it quite possible that I could miscarry if for some reason I managed to conceive, especially if I had any scar tissue. And that she felt it was the reason I hadn't yet conceived. That being said, I have seen plenty of conflicting information on endometriosis. I've decided that the medical world really doesn't know much about it. There are no rules, no definites.

As a side note: 5 months after my surgery we have discovered it was DH after all. We suffer from severe male factor infertility.

 

[Rach27]

From Endometriosis.org

"There is no evidence that endometriosis causes women to have repeated miscarriages [5].

Also, there is no evidence that treating endometriosis results in women having fewer miscarriages [6, 7]."

I had endo, was treated in November 2008 and got pregnant naturally in June My surgeon also told me that once pregnant, there was nothing to suggest women with endo would suffer miscarriage anymore than the next pregnant woman.

RR it might be a good idea to see if they can grab some eggs before the laparoscopy. There is a natural period of healing after this op and most surgeons will tell you it will take at least six months to fall pregnant (7 for me!)

If you really suspect endo is the culprit then having the op ahead of IVF is the sensible choice IMHO.

Good luck with whatever you decide

 

[wishn2Bmom]

Rach~ thanks! You've proved my point

I also found this:
https://www.micronutra.com/journal/endometriosis/endometriosis-miscarriage
"Half of women with endometriosis will have problems with infertility. Many of these women, up to fifty percent, also miscarry when they do finally become pregnant. In comparison, the rate of spontaneous miscarriages for the general population is about ten percent."

I think they do this to drive us crazy. It's a cruel joke....


This is a pretty good site for endo understanding and homeopathic treatment.
https://www.endo-resolved.com/index.html

 

[Rach27]

There is a lot of conflicting information out there (the internet is terrible for that!). However, going by the source I cited (medically based and therefore, I assume, credible) as well as my own experience, I don't believe there is any proven link between endo and miscarriage. Afterall, pregnancy halts endo due to the lack of AF. This also backs up what my surgeon said.

Your first source is non-medical and does not reference the statements. Endo-Resloved is a pretty good site. If there was a credible medical source to that statement, then there should be a reference.

You have to really search through what's there and decide on "the truth".

It's probably quite hard to determine whether endo causes miscarriage (as it may be completely unrelated). It's such a toughie

My only real advice is if you suspect endo, get it treated. It will be a positive move however you look at it.

 

[brumbar]

Hey reallyready. wanted to post yesterday but ran out of battery. Anyway, check with the doc, make a list of Q, ask and take it from there ... Especially if you are playing against time. I also agree that they don't know much about it and they haven't conducted enough studies to provide clinically significant data. With us, everyone was convinced its me because of my cyst (which is small and hasn't changed in size in 9months,touch wood,). We were unexplained and they were inssting i should do a lap for diagnosis even when the u/s scan showed that the cyst might be dermoid and i have No endo symptoms. I personaly think that endo has to do with weakened immune system and i have, just in case, tried to be really good, went on the endo resolved diet, eating organic when i can and consuming lots of antioxidants- green tea, broccoli, selenium supplements and biolive natural youghurt etc . my FS was really puzzled as to why i am not pregnant by now... She said my results were of a 26 years old (yeah i wish.....) and then we got dh's test results. he wasn't a suspect as he has 2kids and is younger than me. Well....to proove me wrong.... we 've got male factor.... or so they say. good luck hun...i,ll keep stalking your journal to see how you're doing. X