Our pick up/put down journey...

[diggory77]

Glad it seems to be going well. I tried this for two days, day and night and I caved, I wish my husband would help as I think I could stick to it a bit better then. The first night took three hours to get her to sleep. I lost count of pick ups. The second 2.5 hours. My little girl just wants to play and crawl around her cot when I first put her down so I just leave her until she gets grumpy. She likes to spit her dummy out of throw it out of her cot too. It's so hard with all their developmental changes/teething and growth spurts to know if its ok to keep continuing.
At the same time I was trying wake to sleep to try and get rid of some habitual Wakings and that worked really well. She was going to sleep around 8 then sleeping until 3, I'd then bring her into bed with me at around 5 when she'd just fuss and struggle to settle. So hard being determined with pupd at 5am!
I think I need to start it up again!
X

 

[felix555]

You're doing really well! I failed last night and tonight and just rocked him to sleep I've had 3 nights of waking every hour and having 2 o clock parties so wasn't in the mood for it!

 

[joo]

Glad it seems to be going well. I tried this for two days, day and night and I caved, I wish my husband would help as I think I could stick to it a bit better then. The first night took three hours to get her to sleep. I lost count of pick ups. The second 2.5 hours. My little girl just wants to play and crawl around her cot when I first put her down so I just leave her until she gets grumpy. She likes to spit her dummy out of throw it out of her cot too. It's so hard with all their developmental changes/teething and growth spurts to know if its ok to keep continuing.
At the same time I was trying wake to sleep to try and get rid of some habitual Wakings and that worked really well. She was going to sleep around 8 then sleeping until 3, I'd then bring her into bed with me at around 5 when she'd just fuss and struggle to settle. So hard being determined with pupd at 5am!
I think I need to start it up again!
X

I'd agree you definitely need your OH on board when starting PU/PD (or probably any sort of sleep training), even if it's just to help with the timing and the counting. I'd quite happily do all the PU/PD and just have OH keep count, but we share it out evenly just so baby gets used to us both putting her to bed. I think if he was doing it on his own that first night he might have given up because he felt so sorry for her and wasn't confident he was doing it right, but I was there giving him thumbs up all the way, and vice versa. The middle of the night ones are the ones I dread though, even though they're faster and less pick ups. It's exactly what you said though, it's hard being determined at that time when you just want everyone to go back to sleep or don't want to disturb the rest of the household. I'm flitting in and out of the baby whisperer forum, there is some great advice on PU/PD and why it might not be working

You're doing really well! I failed last night and tonight and just rocked him to sleep I've had 3 nights of waking every hour and having 2 o clock parties so wasn't in the mood for it!

I really feel for you with the hourly wakings!!! This week has felt amazing getting 4+ block hours of sleep after a couple of weeks of getting up every hour! It can be really hard to stay consistent when you've had that little sleep. There is some advice on the Baby Whisper site that said it's best to start on a Friday so you have the weekend with OH to help out and can try and steal a few naps over the weekend - depends on your circumstances though, not everyone is lucky enough to have OH home at weekends. We decided to start on Monday this week because OH has next week off work. Our theory was that this week she'd put up a fight and we'd be really tired, but that by next week she'd be getting used to it and we'd be finding it easier; OH has next week off so we can catch up on sleep then if needs be. Hopefully you'll be back on track in no time.

 

[joo]

Apparently you can go through a regression on nights 5-7 and baby can put up such a fight that they seem even worse than they were to start with. With this is mind I was really dreading it. Also, because of the way her feeds and naps fell, she ended up waking up from her last nap an hour before bedtime so I wasn't feeling too positive.

OH put her down at 8:10pm and the crying started straight away. 3 pick ups and she went quiet at 8:15pm... Great! OH stayed with her a bit, she was very drowsy but not asleep. He mouthed to me to check the time, and I was whispering but she heard me and kicked off! OH was NOT happy with me and told me it was because she'd heard my voice. I got stroppy Anyway he had to do another pick up at 8:30pm and she went to sleep at 8:40pm. We crept down the stairs but my ankle did a massive click on one of the first steps down - every little noise was waking her and it had to be my noise didn't it! OH was mad at me again and told me to just go downstairs and observe through the monitor! 8:50pm - 2 more pick ups and she was screaming, settled for a couple of minutes then I went back up and asked OH if he wanted to swap as it had nearly been an hour and I could see he was getting annoyed. I took over at 9pm and did 3 pick ups. She went to sleep at 9:15pm and we didn't hear a peep from her until a little after 4am.

9 pick ups and 1 hour 5 minutes.

I don't think it was any sort of regression last night. I think it was a mixture of her late nap, OH and I were chattering away to each other just before we put her in the crib (we usually make the last feed quiet, and sit with her quietly for 5 minutes before putting her down) and also every little noise seemed to wake her up.

I have since read that if you're sharing the PU/PD with someone then it's advised to do 2 nights in a row before swapping and not swap in between. Something to do with being overstimulating to LO. Also last night we had no trouble with the dummy.

Naps today have been fine, she's been doing 2 hours awake time. She had 2 hours 45 minutes daytime sleep, which is the same as pretty much every day (but an hour less than what she should be having apparently). Other than the stupid tea time nap before bed. Her 2 hour awake time meant it was too late to try and get her to nap so we had to keep her awake for an extra hour to get to bed time. We didn't have to physically keep her awake though, but she was very cranky after her bath.

 

[Zephram]

This is really interesting, thanks joo. I wonder if it would work on an older baby? My LO is just about 9 months.

 

[joo]

This is really interesting, thanks joo. I wonder if it would work on an older baby? My LO is just about 9 months.

No problem. I'm just sorry I'm a bit wordy, so that's why I've emboldened my pick ups and times if anyone is just interested in that. You can do PU/PD at 9 months but there are adaptations to the method. I think at 9 months you don't do pick ups when baby cries, you leave them in the cot until they stand up and then you do pick up... I'm not entirely sure though as my LO is just turning 5 months so I'm not there yet. I don't think I'm allowed to post links to other forums here, but I have been looking at the Baby Whisperer forum and I have found some useful advice there. There are also a few threads from parents starting PU/PD with older babies.

 

[joo]

PU/PD is still going on, had a bad night followed by a couple of really good nights. Couldn't update over the weekend and OH has this week off so I'll catch up soon

 

[diggory77]

Hi Joo.

You inspired me to give this a go again. I'm on night three. First night was awful, took 3 hours but she settled herself multiple times through the evening/ night. I then bought her into bed with me at 4. But she wakes every 20 mins if/ when her dummy falls out! Second night took 1 hour and tonight took 45 mins. She's normally a very light sleeper but I've been making lots of noise the past few nights and she's not woken.

Xxx

 

[optimistic1]

I have to try this. My daughter is 2 months old so it might not work but I read on the internet that its okay to start this after 2 months. My daughter is a horrible sleeper...theres no real pattern to it either she just does not sleep. Lately she wont sleep for the night until about 3-5 am and I have to hold her for an hour so she doesn't wake right back up. I put her in bed and she'll sleep anywhere from 3-5 hours. When she wakes up sometimes she'll nurse and fall right back to sleep for a few hours and sometimes she'll fight it and stay awake for a few hours and it be a huge hassle getting her back to sleep for a nap. During the day time she will not nap! I was able to get her to sleep on me for a little while probably an hour and a half at the most or she'd nap in her carseat for a couple of hours and she'll nap in her swing as well but if I put her in bed she just wakes up and will not settle so I try feeding her again and I just end up driving myself crazy with an overstimulated baby that has trouble getting to sleep with or without me. Idk if its a phase or not but im sooooo desperate....its not really about me needing sleep (which I do I feel completely dead by the end of day) but shes 2 months old and should be getting 15 or so hours of sleep a day and she maybe gets 10 if were lucky.

Love your posts so keep them coming I want to see how things have been if there getting better for you and if switching off is working cause I would love for OH to be able to put her to sleep too...he needs the stress so he can stop acting like I got it easy being a SAHM with a non napping baby!

 

[joo]

Hi Joo.

You inspired me to give this a go again. I'm on night three. First night was awful, took 3 hours but she settled herself multiple times through the evening/ night. I then bought her into bed with me at 4. But she wakes every 20 mins if/ when her dummy falls out! Second night took 1 hour and tonight took 45 mins. She's normally a very light sleeper but I've been making lots of noise the past few nights and she's not woken.

Xxx

How's it going diggory? Eeek your first night sounded tough I did read that in some cases it can go on for three hours and if you read on the forums you'll find other people who go on for even longer! Bedtime PU/PD can be tough, but later in the night when baby settles herself I feel a real sense of achievement and feel really proud of her and of us. It sounds like things got easier for you guys. Are you still going? xxx

I have to try this. My daughter is 2 months old so it might not work but I read on the internet that its okay to start this after 2 months. My daughter is a horrible sleeper...theres no real pattern to it either she just does not sleep. Lately she wont sleep for the night until about 3-5 am and I have to hold her for an hour so she doesn't wake right back up. I put her in bed and she'll sleep anywhere from 3-5 hours. When she wakes up sometimes she'll nurse and fall right back to sleep for a few hours and sometimes she'll fight it and stay awake for a few hours and it be a huge hassle getting her back to sleep for a nap. During the day time she will not nap! I was able to get her to sleep on me for a little while probably an hour and a half at the most or she'd nap in her carseat for a couple of hours and she'll nap in her swing as well but if I put her in bed she just wakes up and will not settle so I try feeding her again and I just end up driving myself crazy with an overstimulated baby that has trouble getting to sleep with or without me. Idk if its a phase or not but im sooooo desperate....its not really about me needing sleep (which I do I feel completely dead by the end of day) but shes 2 months old and should be getting 15 or so hours of sleep a day and she maybe gets 10 if were lucky.

Love your posts so keep them coming I want to see how things have been if there getting better for you and if switching off is working cause I would love for OH to be able to put her to sleep too...he needs the stress so he can stop acting like I got it easy being a SAHM with a non napping baby!

Hi optimistic1 :wave: I've been following the advice from the Baby Whisperer forum and also the Baby Whisperer section on another parenting forum and it says not to start until baby is four months. I'm not entirely sure why. Anyway, you sound like you've been looking in to it and there must be a reason why the sites say it's ok to start at two months too. I really feel for you with the naps. At two months my baby wouldn't sleep anywhere unless being held or in the swing. I started to get panicky that she'd only sleep if we were swinging her! For us it was just a phase, but with us gently 'training' her to sleep out of the swing and not on us. Hopefully your LO will soon sleep better during the day too. It's so hard to make sure they get the right amount of daytime sleep, and we really do suffer at night if we haven't got it right. I know what you mean about OH thinking it's easy, mine's the same because he mainly sees her when she's in a good mood. I'm having trouble convincing my OH to bring baby's bedtime earlier so he start her bath at 7pm. He is against this because sometimes he doesn't get home from work until 6pm so he wouldn't get much time with her. His answer to me was to 'stretch out her naps in the day'. Hmmmm, easier said than done! Anyway, hope you've been getting more sleep since your last post

 

[joo]

OK, sorry for the break but OH is back to work this week so I'm going to try and catch up now.

Night 6

Put baby down at 7:35pm, did five pick ups and she went quiet for a couple of minutes. At 7:45pm I had to do three more pick ups and she was asleep three minutes later. 8 pick ups and 13 minutes.

She woke at 1:25am and this is where the fun started! It took 10 pick ups and then she was sort of asleep by 1:40am. Then she started again at 2am, 13 pick ups, quiet for 10 minutes and then nine more pick ups at 2:30am until 2:40am. Three minutes later and another three pick ups. She was quiet at 2:50am and drifted off to sleep. 35 pick ups and 1 hour and 25 minutes :yawn:

It was really tough tonight because I normally only feed her if she wakes up after 2am, and if she wakes up before 2am she usually goes back down. Tonight she went on well past 2am and I wasn't sure what to do. If I fed her at 2am I felt like it would be an inconsistency because we were still doing PU/PD and it would confuse her or send the wrong message. I was wondering whether I should drop this feed all together because she will go back to sleep and wake at around 4am for a feed. All in all a very confusing night, and I felt really bad because I didn't feed her and then convinced myself she would have been hungry!


Night 7

Baby started crying before we even put her down in her crib at 8:10pm - she knows what's coming now! 2 pick ups and 6 minutes! That was it, other than her normal middle of the night and very early morning feeds and she went back down with no problems.


Will update more next time xxx

 

[cocosianelle]

Just wanted to say well done Joo you and the OH are doing a fantastic job.

 

[joo]

Just wanted to say well done Joo you and the OH are doing a fantastic job.

Thanks cocosianelle. Things are much easier than at the start, but we haven't quite cracked it yet. Just been through another bad spell with it, but determined to stick it out.

 

[joo]

Night 8

Put down to bed at 8pm. 5 pickups and asleep in 17 minutes! No extra wake ups and no PU/PD after night feeds.


Night 9

Put down at 7:45 and NO PICK UPS!!!
Wake up at 12am though, hand on chest until she went to sleep 8 minutes later. Woke again at 12:25am, hand on chest didn't work. 3 pick ups by 12:37am. So classing all this as one wake up. 3 pick ups and 37 minutes.


Night 10

Put down at 7:50pm and NO PICKUPS!!!
At about 10ish 3 pick ups were needed but haven't made any notes on that so don't think it took that long.


Night 11

Put down at 7:30pm and NO PICK UPS or night wakings (other than the 2 normal ones)


Night 12

Bed at 8:15pm. 3 pick ups and 17 minutes.
1:20am - 6 pick ups until 1:25am when she went quiet. Was fed up of watching her waiting for her to sleep so we left her awake at 1:35am so not sure when she actually went to sleep, but it was definitely before 1:50am. So 6 pick ups and about 30 minutes.

Night 13

We slept over at the in-laws' house tonight. Baby didn't get a bed time bath and went straight from the party to being fed and put in sleepsuit. She was overtired as well because she wouldn't go for her last nap and after 20 minutes of trying I gave up because if she went to sleep she'd wake up too close to bedtime. This last nap of the day is really throwing a spanner in the works. I just can't seem to get it right. Anyway, she didn't take the nap and only had about 2 hours daytime sleep. She went down ok at about 8pm but did wake frequently and OH did lots of pick ups and it took a long time each go. I had to settle her in the middle of the night too, but I don't think I did any pick ups. I think it was a mixture of being overtired, change of routine and surroundings and also sleeping in the travel cot instead of her crib.


Night 14 - 2 weeks!!!

Put down at 8pm, she cried but hand on chest settled her. NO PICK UPS and 9 minutes.


Night 15 (last night)
Bed at 7:45pm - 5 pick ups and 23 minutes. Tonight seemed like a real bacwards step

 

[laila 44]

Can I suggest something? I tried what u are doing when my dd was 5.5 months old. It wasn't working and we got so frustrated because every time we picked her up and put her back down she would get more and more upset. I called my pediatrician, desperate for help. He said I should just not go in at all anymore and let her cry it out as it was a much faster and less painful solution for baby's sleep issues. Well, I struggled so much but dh and I decided to try out of desperation. It took 4 nights. Since that night she sleeps 13 hours from 7pm-8am every single night without a peep!! Best thing we ever did. She is now 2 and loves bedtime. Best gift we could give her was the ability to self sooth. Consider it. For me it was more cruel to walk in and pick her up and put her back down. She always associated crying with me walking in and therefore it never worked. Thank god for my pediatrician, he gave us the best advice xx

 

[optimistic1]

Hi optimistic1 :wave: I've been following the advice from the Baby Whisperer forum and also the Baby Whisperer section on another parenting forum and it says not to start until baby is four months. I'm not entirely sure why. Anyway, you sound like you've been looking in to it and there must be a reason why the sites say it's ok to start at two months too. I really feel for you with the naps. At two months my baby wouldn't sleep anywhere unless being held or in the swing. I started to get panicky that she'd only sleep if we were swinging her! For us it was just a phase, but with us gently 'training' her to sleep out of the swing and not on us. Hopefully your LO will soon sleep better during the day too. It's so hard to make sure they get the right amount of daytime sleep, and we really do suffer at night if we haven't got it right. I know what you mean about OH thinking it's easy, mine's the same because he mainly sees her when she's in a good mood. I'm having trouble convincing my OH to bring baby's bedtime earlier so he start her bath at 7pm. He is against this because sometimes he doesn't get home from work until 6pm so he wouldn't get much time with her. His answer to me was to 'stretch out her naps in the day'. Hmmmm, easier said than done! Anyway, hope you've been getting more sleep since your last post

Her sleep ended up going completely out the window no sleep at all unless she was laying on the nursing pillow in my lap. This lasted about 3 days and last night she went to sleep in her bed and shes been napping well today. I ended up researching wonder weeks and it turns out theres a super clingy phase around 8-9 weeks. Im going to put off sleep training for a couple of months. Id love for her to self settle but I think ill wait til after the 4 month sleep regression. Love that its working out for you. Gives me hope that when I do try this that it might work...especially since your lo was clingy at 2 months too!!

 

[PepsiChic]

just a question, but as your doing PUPD, have you thought about ditching the dummy?

a lot of people ditch them at around 4-5 months and as your doing PUPD, it would be an ideal time to get rid of it rather then later on when it might be harder.

I did PUPD with Barry as a baby and we started with Connor on saturday night, our story is in my blog in my signature. I think it *really* helped baryr maintain good sleeping habits, he has been a really good sleeper since 7 months, sleeping through the night at about 9 months, and self settling if he woke up during the night as he got older and even now as a toddler! fingers crossed it continues to go well for you

 

[joo]

Can I suggest something? I tried what u are doing when my dd was 5.5 months old. It wasn't working and we got so frustrated because every time we picked her up and put her back down she would get more and more upset. I called my pediatrician, desperate for help. He said I should just not go in at all anymore and let her cry it out as it was a much faster and less painful solution for baby's sleep issues. Well, I struggled so much but dh and I decided to try out of desperation. It took 4 nights. Since that night she sleeps 13 hours from 7pm-8am every single night without a peep!! Best thing we ever did. She is now 2 and loves bedtime. Best gift we could give her was the ability to self sooth. Consider it. For me it was more cruel to walk in and pick her up and put her back down. She always associated crying with me walking in and therefore it never worked. Thank god for my pediatrician, he gave us the best advice xx

Thanks for your post, Laila I'm not considering cry it out when baby turns 6 months. It seems we're having the opposite result as baby gets less upset with pick ups. We hardly have to pick her up anymore, but she's still not self-settling as we have to stay next to her with a hand in the crib while she falls to sleep. I did feel cruel the first time, but after we'd finished that night I knew we were doing the right thing for us.

Her sleep ended up going completely out the window no sleep at all unless she was laying on the nursing pillow in my lap. This lasted about 3 days and last night she went to sleep in her bed and shes been napping well today. I ended up researching wonder weeks and it turns out theres a super clingy phase around 8-9 weeks. Im going to put off sleep training for a couple of months. Id love for her to self settle but I think ill wait til after the 4 month sleep regression. Love that its working out for you. Gives me hope that when I do try this that it might work...especially since your lo was clingy at 2 months too!!

Aaahh the Wonder Weeks! It was the 4 month sleep regression that stung me. I don't think all babies go through it though, so you might be one of the lucky ones! Good luck with whatever you decide to try (if you even need to try anything at all!). x

just a question, but as your doing PUPD, have you thought about ditching the dummy?

a lot of people ditch them at around 4-5 months and as your doing PUPD, it would be an ideal time to get rid of it rather then later on when it might be harder.

I did PUPD with Barry as a baby and we started with Connor on saturday night, our story is in my blog in my signature. I think it *really* helped baryr maintain good sleeping habits, he has been a really good sleeper since 7 months, sleeping through the night at about 9 months, and self settling if he woke up during the night as he got older and even now as a toddler! fingers crossed it continues to go well for you

I mentioned a few posts back about the dummy. PU/PD isn't recommended with the dummy, but there are success stories with the dummy too. We've had two nights where the dummy really got in the way, but most of the time during the night when she wakes up we watch her on the monitor and she just drifts back to sleep without it. Since I read your post I have been thinking about the dummy more and more. We're not ready to wean from the dummy just yet. I'm going to wait until 6+ months (NHS guidelines) and then probably go cold turkey! She doesn't need the dummy every time, e.g. in the car or in the pram, so I decided to test the water this morning but she couldn't nap without it. I'm now being really careful to only give her the dummy at nap time/bed time and I'm taking the dummy out as she's going to sleep. Hopefully it will make things easier when wean-day comes.

I have had a quick look through your journal (will have a proper look soon but the ironing pile awaits ) and saw you're writing about the EASY routine. I'm struggling with this at the moment. For us it's the last nap of the day, late afternoon. We end up skipping it all together some days and then she's too tired at bed time. Also when we need to go out or when I have visitors, she just won't nap and throws it all out! Anyway I'll try and have a proper read through soon.

 

[joo]

Night 16

No pick ups and 8 minutes! No resettles in the night either. When we put her in her crib she just lay there awake for five minutes then had a cry for a minute and then was asleep two minutes later.


Night 17

Put down at 7:40, had a cry for a minute and was asleep by 7:45! No pick ups and 5 minutes.
But she did wake up an hour later, OH had to go and re-settle her (no pick ups). And then again just after we went to bed at 10:40, OH re-settled her (no pick ups) but it took about five minutes.


I have convinced OH to bring bed time forward! We start the bedtime routine at 7pm with the aim to have her in bed before 8pm.