paying for infertility treatment with public monies, yes or no?

[Wobbles]

If someone hasn't struggled, I am just not sure they should have that much of a say. I just don't see how they can get it.

I agree!

You just don't get it until your there and there are so many different levels of infertility. A woman (most) naturally desires to carry her own child this can be overpowering. I felt weak as a woman when I didn't think I would ever carry a child.

If the government can put a free roof (no council tax to pay either) over the heads of those who thieve, never seen a job in their lives, take drugs, live on benefits with no intentions to come off them, breed freely to stay on those benefits (for a bigger slap in the face) then I don't see why helping an honest family bringing a child into the world through a situation out of their control is so blooming wrong. Those who have paid into all of the above and more!

The government pay into a lot of situations and infertility is by far the last one I would disagree with.

Let's not ignore infertility can cause severe emotional, physical and mental issues.

 

[JackiePed]

If someone hasn't struggled, I am just not sure they should have that much of a say. I just don't see how they can get it.

I agree!

You just don't get it until your there and there are so many different levels of infertility. A woman (most) naturally desires to carry her own child this can be overpowering. I felt weak as a woman when I didn't think I would ever carry a child.

If the government can put a free roof (no council tax to pay either) over the heads of those who thieve, never seen a job in their lives, take drugs, live on benefits with no intentions to come off them, breed freely to stay on those benefits (for a bigger slap in the face) then I don't see why helping an honest family bringing a child into the world through a situation out of their control is so blooming wrong. Those who have paid into all of the above and more!

The government pay into a lot of situations and infertility is by far the last one I would disagree with.

Let's not ignore infertility can cause severe emotional, physical and mental issues.

Just because the government does pay for some things doesn't mean it should. Whether in the UK or the US, government funding programs are broken. They are aimed at providing for the needs of the people, and people take advantage of them. So, yes... free-loaders and crappy people get the benefit of government funding. And that sucks. But that's EXACTLY my point.... we already are so overstretched just trying to cover the 'needs' of the people, and even that is taken advantage of... how do we have the room and justify the spending for conception assistance?
I'm not saying it works out the way it should.... I get angry that government assistance is so complicated, and is so grossly taken advantage of.
But there's no way around it.
So... if we're talking about actual, real-life, realistic spending decisions... then... no... as our current government system stands, we barely have enough to cover basic, fundamental needs. And yes, some of that is because people abuse it. But... until nobody abuses it any longer, it will remain overstretched. Thus... things that it would be really great to receive govt. help with... don't get addressed.

Then again, this is a confusing debate because in the UK, the government DOES assist with conception, correct? In the US, the government does not assist with conception (as far as I'm aware), though some insurance companies will offer some assistance. So.. it's a moot point in the UK because it's already a benefit the citizens receive.

 

[Wobbles]

Jackie not everyone, I've seen people declined. As for testing, I for one was advised a test I may want to consider (ONE TEST) would cost me £1000 that's AFTER the consultation fee's. But I think anywhere in the world should be entitled to some help even if once or like I said greatly reduced treatments.

Well that is my opinion and thoughts on the discussion. I don't get heated or deep so I am out but happy debating ladies Please keep it civil even at those 'touchy' moments (we are all guilty of them) ...

Night all

 

[smokey]

Why do you feel all people are entitled to eat least one child?

If I was low income and could not conceive, I honestly would accept it as God's fate for me. I might even use that as an excuse to finally get that dog I always wanted.

I don't have the highest of incomes, I was born with smallish boobs, and don't have the money to get breast implants (not like I ever would!). But I accept it as my fate!

If it's not life threatening, sometimes these are just crappy things that life throws at you sometimes.

I think that I'd grieve some, but I'd definitely find the ability to cope by giving my love to other things (like animals, nieces, nephews, etc.)

I'm curious if you have ever personally faced infertility and researched it's cost? You do appear to have a very vague idea (minus consultation fee's, follow up appointments & drug costs for some).

I can assure you if below or above the poverty line the cost of assisted conception is day light robbery.

Your own family ... a dog
Your own family ... a pair of boobs

Accepting what nature throws at you isn't always so easy to just say "oh well" to, if it not be the want for your own little family it will be another situation. I'd just say your lucky you haven't been dished that part of nature to make you second think how you would 'really' deal with that situation, again lucky you

Some really cold statements

In answer to the question YES infertility treatment should be given free or at least the testing done free and the cost of assisted conception greatly reduced (although I'd like to see at least 1 shot at the chance/dream first). It's heartbreaking enough without money being the only thing that stands in your way. Fact is MOST couples who want to start their families CAN afford to bring a child into the world but who has 10,000+ gbp just laying around spare instantly.

This is what I was on about but im useless at explaining myself
We can afford perfectly well to raise a child and should be fine with two but never had the disposable income to save to be able to afford fertility treatment.
OH uncle and his wife spent about 40k on treatment and it still never worked, they bankrupted themselves she bacame so sick with worry she lost her job and it nearly ended their marriage because of financial stress yet without that financial worry they where both on 20k+ jobs and would have been fine with the cost of raising a child.
The adopted in the end end are just about coping but they will get there.

I just worked it out and with wage tax, council tax and such between me and my husband since we started paying into society about 15 years ago we have paid close to 400k, dam it if I need a little help then I think payed my dues and deserve a little help back

 

[Quackquack99]

I personally think that fertility treatment are really costly and its unfair that postcode lottery exists in regards to funding. I think a privatised form of fertility treatment would be good just like the dental service. So that everyone would be entitled to it but at a reduced cost. I hope that way it won't be too much of a strain to the nhs. I completely understand the desire to have a child and its heartbreaking to think that there people out there who refused funding yet can't afford to go private. Who can afford thousands of pound for one go of ivf?

 

[smokey]

Somtimes it feels like a test of your desire.
We can push our luck and charge you as much as we can because we know you realy want it.
Its like a guilt trip "well if you arnt willing to pay the price you couldnt have wanted a baby as much as you say"

 

[hellywelly]

This is my personal view.

i think that those who smoke / drink / lead an unhealthy lifestyle should not be entitled to this as to me they are not trying to make themselves better candidates than anyone else. Also I do believe that those on benefits shouldn't plan to have children period whether getting IVF or planning naturally. I think that if you are knowingly bringing a bubba into this world for other people to pay for it then this is wrong - HOWEVER, if you have worked and supported yourself and through hard times like now find yourselves out of work etc then the benefit system should be used properly and there for all - but it shouldn't be relied upon.

Also unfortunately - it is normally the smoking non working benefit dependent people who can knock out baby after baby - its normally those who have worked and been good that normally have problems having children - this is where life is so unfair.

xx

 

[smelly07]

If someone hasn't struggled, I am just not sure they should have that much of a say. I just don't see how they can get it.

I agree!

You just don't get it until your there and there are so many different levels of infertility. A woman (most) naturally desires to carry her own child this can be overpowering. I felt weak as a woman when I didn't think I would ever carry a child.

If the government can put a free roof (no council tax to pay either) over the heads of those who thieve, never seen a job in their lives, take drugs, live on benefits with no intentions to come off them, breed freely to stay on those benefits (for a bigger slap in the face) then I don't see why helping an honest family bringing a child into the world through a situation out of their control is so blooming wrong. Those who have paid into all of the above and more!

The government pay into a lot of situations and infertility is by far the last one I would disagree with.

Let's not ignore infertility can cause severe emotional, physical and mental issues.

i agree with this. My brother is the one who has the infertility problems in his relationship, i remember how this made him feel when he found out that he wont ever be a dad (without help) he works hard and has done since he was 16 years old and would be able to look after a child properly but doesnt have a bank full of cash to cover all the expenses and isnt entitled to help....its genuine people like this who miss out.

 

[vaniilla]

I think we need to remember the nhs is not free per se, we all pay taxes towards it, infertility is a medical problem and as such people should be able to get treatment for it on the nhs, regardless of what people's personal opinions are on how important kids are or not it does not change the fact that its a medical thing, and therefore nobody should have the right to deny couples who can't afford thousands on IVF.

Personally I hate the "why don't you adopt argument" well, why didn't you? smells like double standards, just because you can have kids naturally doesn't mean the same argument doesn't apply to you.

people who go down this road tread a thin line because the argument is no different to treatment for those who need treatment for self inflicted problems, problems which don't need to be fixed but are done for improvement of quality of life etc, thank goodness that its not these people deciding what treatment we can get!

"kids are a lifestyle choice" while you're at it yes , ofcourse! and pnd doesn't exist, people who are depressed should get a grip, those that need prosthetic limbs should get them on their own watch or get the old cheap ones the modern ones are expensive, repeat constructive surgery shouldn't be offered to anyone because its not life threatening, fire all the stop smoking staff, why do we have social care for old people? getting old is a natural part of life they should have planned for their retirement, women should pay for contraception if you don't want kids don't have sex or buy your own condoms etc etc etc etc agreeing with one and not the other is double standards

actually thinking of it 99% of treatment people get is non life threatening

I hope no one is offended but if you are maybe you need to ask yourself why not me and sorry this turned into a loooong rant

 

[queenlavera]

My DH and I NEEDED IVF to get pregnant and struggled with infertility for two years, we still paid into the system that supported others as well as paying through the nose for our private insurance that did not cover IVF. I personally do not agree with having free treatments in the US for people who are on assistance period. But I also find it ridiculous the insane amount of money these treatments cost people like us who aren't on any assistance and pay into the system. I think all insurances should cover at least the majority of cost of infertility treatments, because the bottom line is IF is a medical condition like any other that is currently covered and treated under our private insurances.
My DH and I honestly could not afford to move to some state that has full coverage of IF (how unrealistic), lay out the lump sum of money that is required for IVF (in our area 10-15k per cycle) and we pursued adoption which was 20-25k even more expensive than an IVF cycle. I got pregnant on a clinical trial, we had to truly think out of the box to grow our family and I am lucky because there has been quite a few women who have done the exact same trial and did not get my result. So they are back to square one trying to figure out how in the world they can get the money together to do this.

And really?? Comparing a boob job and a dog to a flesh and blood child??? Wow! It is so easy to tell someone else they don't need what you yourself have.

 

[alaskagrown]

In this day and age, however... Having children is a want, not a need.

 

[JASMAK]

pregnancy is a want...not a need? that comment is a slap in the face to those struggling with infertility.

 

[queenlavera]

That is a perfect example that if you never been through IF you have absolutely no true understanding of how it feels. As with anything else, you can't tell a person who has experienced a miscarriage "I know your pain" if you never been through one yourself because you truly do not know.
If to live a happy and productive life you see yourself as a wife and mother, this makes getting married and having a child a need not a want.

 

[alaskagrown]

Well, that is why it's classified as an elective treatment. If it were a necessity, publicly funded programs that provide essential primary care, like Medicaid, would surely cover it.

 

[JackiePed]

Well, alaskagrown, I think that's the point of this debate originally ^... is SHOULD publicly funded programs cover fertility treatments?

QueenLavera and others who have mentioned it, I completely agree that it's shameful how much IVF and other fertility treatments cost. I don't see why it's allowed, it is very nearly extortion, and there is no possible way that the costs of IVF truly justify what clinics will actually charge people to get it done. It's disgusting.
And.... the pain of not being able to conceive when you so desperately want to can severely alter someone's view of what their life means to them.

But, when it comes to government funding this... logistically, in the real world and not just in a debate about what would be really ideal... how would we work this out? We would have to either say "fertility treatments for all"... or set boundaries. But as soon as we set boundaries, how do we decide what is fair? How do we verify information? That would cost MORE money for investigation purposes, special case consideration, appeals, etc...
How would we decide who gets it?
And if everyone gets it... then that means that ppl who already have kids get it... ppl who are living completely off of public benefits get it... ppl with unstable family or homelife get it...

And if everyone only gets 'one shot'... then what if the doctor screwed it up? What if you're now with a new OH who desperately wants a child... it's HIS first shot... but not yours... How many lawsuits and appeals do you think would occur when the "one shot" doesn't work?

I just don't see how it is logistically possible without costing far more than public funds have. Public funds aren't there to give us our dreams. Public funds are there to ensure that nobody goes hungry, homeless, or dying of disease or injury.

I am totally aware that it's already screwed up, and that public funds already cover some pretty ridiculous and unnecessary things... but if we were sitting on a committee deciding whether or not to add this to the list of public benefits... how would that be a valid argument? "We already spend tax dollars on things that aren't truly needs... so lets add a bunch more." ?

This isn't me being insensitive... or saying, "You really don't NEED a child...." but... it's me looking at the purpose of public funding in the first place, and whether or not it is something that, at least in the US, could actually be done.

 

[kate1984]

I don't think it should be free... I know i may get jumped on for this but I think if somebody wants a baby then they should have to fund it themselves as being a parent is a lifestyle choice.

I think that money could be used for cancer drugs so there is no more postcode lottery and better equipment in hospitals and more nurses, midwives etc