paying for infertility treatment with public monies, yes or no?

[alaskagrown]

Okay, let's give people on welfare fertility treatment. AS LONG AS the mother receives NO financial assistance from the government to carry and raise that child. Hmm..THAT will get people thinking twice about having kids!

(This is a sarcasm post..)



I think it's immoral to bring a child into this world and expect your neighbors to foot the bill.

I know some people milking off their wealthy parents money. should they have kids? Maybe fertility treatments should turn them down too since they don't work (too irresponsible. All they do is sit around living off of money they didn't earn) And some people they just play with numbers to make them really wealthy but poor people who need govt help work just as hard as they do (sometimes they have two or three jobs )

Hey, if they've got the means to pay their own bills - whether they work super hard or got the money as inheritance - I don't care if they get fertility treatment or not! If they've got the money, go for it! They'll also have the money to raise their own children!


I guarantee you, the government is not going to sit around listening to everyone's sad life stories about why they're in the situation they're in and then determine if their story is "legit" to receive fertility treatment or not. And if the government does choose to do that some day....well, God save us all.

 

[Yammas]

I think that in situations like a partner having children from a previous relationship they should be entitled because you cant help who you fall in love with, and for all they know the 'child' could be in their late teens/ early 20's so they arent even a child at all!!!

As for welfare/benefits i dont think they should be able to apply if this is the only source of income after all if the system wasnt there and people had to pay for thier children out of thier own pocket we wouldnt have a population of 7 billion.

 

[deafgal]

these people cheat off of other people. of course they have money.(and people think welfare is bad)

I just don't think its my place to judge anyone as far as family planning. all it matters these kids are well cared for and loved.

 

[deafgal]

I think that in situations like a partner having children from a previous relationship they should be entitled because you cant help who you fall in love with, and for all they know the 'child' could be in their late teens/ early 20's so they arent even a child at all!!!

As for welfare/benefits i dont think they should be able to apply if this is the only source of income after all if the system wasnt there and people had to pay for thier children out of thier own pocket we wouldnt have a population of 7 billion.

probably be more because back in the old days when people could not afford anything, they had 10 to 12 kids. look into the average kids the poor had before family planning and welfare came into the picture.

 

[Yammas]

I'm confused about who your referring to when you say 'these' people

And if they didn't get extra money on top for having children then i doubt theyd want to have ivf as benefits over here arent much for one person let aone affording a child as well. I'm not saying you have to be rockafella to have a child but if you cant support yourself, then you wont be able to support a child either, so to add them to the situation as well is unfair imo.

 

[deafgal]

I'm confused about who your referring to when you say 'these' people

And if they didn't get extra money on top for having children then i doubt theyd want to have ivf as benefits over here arent much for one person let aone affording a child as well. I'm not saying you have to be rockafella to have a child but if you cant support yourself, then you wont be able to support a child either, so to add them to the situation as well is unfair imo.

lets put this way, why do you think the govt set up minimium wages (what if the middle class cant afford IVF either because they been squeezed, then you realize that the rich have the previlege to fertility clinic and everyone else just have to be lucky they can have a child naturally). I think its unfair to judge anyone base on their income or rather they have money or not.

Just keep in mind though, I believe in free access to healthcare to all to a limit (that is, if they want more than what the public healthcare would cover, they will need private insurance). this would include at least one fertility clinic. I don't believe only the people who can afford the clinic or people with no fertility issues can have kids.

 

[MonstHer]

The rest of the population should not have to pay for anyone who needs public assistance to have children, who then need even more public assistance, regardless of their reason for needing it in the first place.

Who the hell am I am really working for at that point? Certainly not for myself and my family.

People who pay their own bills and want to pay for treatment can do whatever they want.

 

[alaskagrown]

I think that in situations like a partner having children from a previous relationship they should be entitled because you cant help who you fall in love with, and for all they know the 'child' could be in their late teens/ early 20's so they arent even a child at all!!!

As for welfare/benefits i dont think they should be able to apply if this is the only source of income after all if the system wasnt there and people had to pay for thier children out of thier own pocket we wouldnt have a population of 7 billion.

probably be more because back in the old days when people could not afford anything, they had 10 to 12 kids. look into the average kids the poor had before family planning and welfare came into the picture.

Earlier in history, people had 10 - 12 kids because they were farming families. That's plain and simple.

 

[alaskagrown]

I'm confused about who your referring to when you say 'these' people

And if they didn't get extra money on top for having children then i doubt theyd want to have ivf as benefits over here arent much for one person let aone affording a child as well. I'm not saying you have to be rockafella to have a child but if you cant support yourself, then you wont be able to support a child either, so to add them to the situation as well is unfair imo.

lets put this way, why do you think the govt set up minimium wages (what if the middle class cant afford IVF either because they been squeezed, then you realize that the rich have the previlege to fertility clinic and everyone else just have to be lucky they can have a child naturally). I think its unfair to judge anyone base on their income or rather they have money or not.

Just keep in mind though, I believe in free access to healthcare to all to a limit (that is, if they want more than what the public healthcare would cover, they will need private insurance). this would include at least one fertility clinic. I don't believe only the people who can afford the clinic or people with no fertility issues can have kids.

I think it's fair to base off income whether a family should bring in another child into this world with government money.

 

[smokey]

Okay, let's give people on welfare fertility treatment. AS LONG AS the mother receives NO financial assistance from the government to carry and raise that child. Hmm..THAT will get people thinking twice about having kids!

(This is a sarcasm post..)



I think it's immoral to bring a child into this world and expect your neighbors to foot the bill.

I couldnt agree with you more wich is why we never claimed the health in pregnancy grant, the £250 savings starter fund (cant remember what it was called) and tbh if I had my way we wouldnt even claime the child benafit (ours sits in the bank unused and LO will get it when hes 18 to help him start out)

But sadly its also immoral to rot your liver away on alcohol and expect your neighbor to foot the bill but it happens.

I just want to make clear that when I wrote this

I think that if people who drink themself pretty much to death can get a liver transplant and poeple who smoke all their lices knowing the dangers can get cancer treatment and people who are morbidly obese from over eating with no actual medical reason can get bands and bipass (correct me if im wrong about that one)
Then why shouldnt a couple who desperatly want to have and love a human life get some help

I wasnt refering to people on long term benafits or those that just cant be arsed to work.
I was actualy refering to couples that do work, have paid into the system for most of their lives and can afford to rais a child themselves but maybe dont have the funds to pay out thousands for fertility treatment.
Take myself and my husband for example, we have worked all our adult lives and paid our taxes and what have you for the last 15 years, we live moderatly comfertable lives, have no debts and dont believe in living outside our means, we work dam hard for what we have and we cant afford it we generaly go without untill we can (im refering to luxery items, we dont use credit cards)
But we dont have any actual savings, we live off what we earn and after everything is payed for each month there is never any left for savings.
As long as there is food in the cuboard, clothes and nappies on the baby and electricity in the house we are happy and fine.
So we would never have been able to afford the thousands for fertility treatment because we just didnt have the up front money, after 8 years of trying we had to face the fact of fertility treatment but had to way up the pros and cons of the idea of getting a loan to pay for it but that would have then ment with paybacks would we still be able to afford to rais a child (without loan payback we can afford it no problem)

Thankfully we never had to go down the fertility road in the end because fate stepped in naturaly.
I just think for those that have paid into society and do work hard there should be a little help and payback sometimes.

 

[NewMummyTurne]

People are going to hate me :/ But please remember this is just my opinion and doesn't mean its right.....

I think people shouldn't be allowed fertility treatment on NHS simply because there are so many children needing adoption, to me I had already decided if either me or my partner were infertile then out answer would be adoption.

I would structure the argument but I dont think i need to? I think its obvious what i'm saying and why.

 

[JASMAK]

So, should adoption be subsidized? I tried to adopt (in Canada) and there was a fiveyear wait list, unless I wanted a child with a dissability, which I don't, because I already have one. So, should all those children with dissabilities go to people who may not be able to cope (it isn't easy by any means)? That could lead to disasterous results.

 

[NewMummyTurne]

"So, should adoption be subsidized? I tried to adopt (in Canada) and there was a fiveyear wait list." - Yes i think the system should be alot quicker....

"I wanted a child with a dissability, which I don't, because I already have one. So, should all those children with dissabilities go to people who may not be able to cope (it isn't easy by any means)? That could lead to disasterous results."

- And no I think maybe it should even be reversed and take long for a family to adopt a disabled child (although not 5 years!) simply because they need to get to know the family and the family needs to ensure it really understands the commitment with a disabled child.

Again these are just my opinions.

 

[robinator]

With U.S. Medicaid, there should be no "circumstances," such as they got laid off from work, or that they're genuinely really nice people, that would allow some one who is low income to receive free fertility treatments. I'm sorry, but when neither you or your spouse has a job, should you really try to be conceiving on my tax dollar? Call me selfish, but our country has a LOT more to take care of right now than getting unemployed/low income people pregnant!!!

Also I'll add that it's an expensive **elective** non-life threatening treatment that many middle-income families would have a hard time affording. So why is it fair that middle-income working families be rejected for it over unemployed people living off of government paid housing?
With this, should the government provide free fertility treatment to all? No, it's not "free." Somebody pays for it somewhere along the line. As they say, there's not such thing as a free meal. Since when is it the government's job to ensure we all become pregnant?

I'm sure I'll get bashed for saying this, especially considering the nature of this forum, but being able to conceive is a privilege, not a right. Just because our bodies were made to do something, it does not mean they are able to do so.

While I know how heartbreaking the struggle to conceive is, the public should not have to foot the bill for our attempts. If we cannot afford our own treatments, then perhaps we should look into other options. For example, in my homestate, insurance companies are not required to pay for any part of IVF treatment; in other states (Maryland, for example), they pay for an enormous chunk of it. While most people don't want to move in order to up their baby making chances, I personally know people who have done just so and are now undergoing nearly-free treatment.

So, think about how important reproducing is to you and look at ALL your options; don't just turn to the government to make it happen for you. It's not their responsibility to fund the creation of even more people.

 

[JackiePed]

Agreed. I have no problem with private insurance companies offering assistance, but Robin hit the nail on the head when she posed the point, why should the government put money toward the creation of more people for which they have to pay to sustain in one way or another?
I think government monetary support needs to be saved for those in need, and though we desperately want children, it isn't a need. It can feel like a very crushing need, but our government-funded resources are so thinly stretched as it is, we need to prioritize.

 

[JASMAK]

With U.S. Medicaid, there should be no "circumstances," such as they got laid off from work, or that they're genuinely really nice people, that would allow some one who is low income to receive free fertility treatments. I'm sorry, but when neither you or your spouse has a job, should you really try to be conceiving on my tax dollar? Call me selfish, but our country has a LOT more to take care of right now than getting unemployed/low income people pregnant!!!

Also I'll add that it's an expensive **elective** non-life threatening treatment that many middle-income families would have a hard time affording. So why is it fair that middle-income working families be rejected for it over unemployed people living off of government paid housing?
With this, should the government provide free fertility treatment to all? No, it's not "free." Somebody pays for it somewhere along the line. As they say, there's not such thing as a free meal. Since when is it the government's job to ensure we all become pregnant?

I'm sure I'll get bashed for saying this, especially considering the nature of this forum, but being able to conceive is a privilege, not a right. Just because our bodies were made to do something, it does not mean they are able to do so.

While I know how heartbreaking the struggle to conceive is, the public should not have to foot the bill for our attempts. If we cannot afford our own treatments, then perhaps we should look into other options. For example, in my homestate, insurance companies are not required to pay for any part of IVF treatment; in other states (Maryland, for example), they pay for an enormous chunk of it. While most people don't want to move in order to up their baby making chances, I personally know people who have done just so and are now undergoing nearly-free treatment.

So, think about how important reproducing is to you and look at ALL your options; don't just turn to the government to make it happen for you. It's not their responsibility to fund the creation of even more people.

Do you? Did you have issues conceiving?

 

[JackiePed]

^^ Well, that was bold. And intrusive.

You have no idea of her history. I think she made it clear that yes, she obviously does know. Or she wouldn't have used the words, "I know..."

 

[JASMAK]

^^ Well, that was bold. And intrusive.

You have no idea of her history. I think she made it clear that yes, she obviously does know. Or she wouldn't have used the words, "I know..."

How do I know she did? People tell me all the time they know what I went through when it took me 4 years to conceive, and had 4 losses. I am sorry, but unless you have been through what i have been through, or similar, then you have NO idea what it's like. I think it would be interesting to hear from women who struggled like I did - for or against it.

 

[Wantingbbbump]

^^ Well, that was bold. And intrusive.

You have no idea of her history. I think she made it clear that yes, she obviously does know. Or she wouldn't have used the words, "I know..."

How do I know she did? People tell me all the time they know what I went through when it took me 4 years to conceive, and had 4 losses. I am sorry, but unless you have been through what i have been through, or similar, then you have NO idea what it's like. I think it would be interesting to hear from women who struggled like I did - for or against it.

I am for it!! It took me 6 very long years to get pregnant with this baby and I had to use donor sperm to do it in the end. I am low income because I can't work at this time. I get SSI because when I was married my husband beat the hell out of me and it took me years to get away from him. The courts didn't give him any rights to the kids if that tells you how bad it was. I need both of my knees replaced and nobody will do it because of my age. Does that mean I didn't have the right to have this baby or help if I needed it. Or the person that has no children because of a medical issue? They have just as much of a right to be a parent as anyone. I wasn't going to post on here because I didn't want people jumping on me for being on SSI and having a baby but guess what I get NO cash from welfare and SSI doesn't give me extra money because of my kids. They give me a set amount and say I hope that you can pay your bills. I own my house so I don't have that bill and my kids don't go without. I buy them whatever they want/need. I don't feel bad because I have worked from age 10 until my Dr said no more it's doing way too much damage and I had to have my pain meds upped. I paid taxes and into SSI so why should I feel bad for what was done to me? Why should anyone be made to feel bad about needing help? Low income doesn't mean that they will be unfit parents or that the child will go without. Where I live you can only get cash for 5 years from welfare so I guess if IF treatments were paid for they would have a reason to go and find any kind of work. Shoot you can make more working then you do on SSI or welfare. My getting on SSI almost a year ago was a huge pay cut for me, I'd rather work but I have to think of my health and my kids that need a mom that can get out of bed and take care of them...YES give them a try or two for a baby if they don't have any kids!!!

 

[JackiePed]

Jasmak, I get that, but most gals on here are pretty sensitive to that and wouldn't say they know the heartbreak if they really didn't. I wasn't trying to fight, but I know I'd hate to be challenged or asked to prove myself in order to be able to state my opinion. Who knows...she may not be comfortable discussing her fertility struggles any further than her previous indication.