poor/rich devide

[smokey]

Only reason I have money in the bank is because I just got paid, its quickly vanishing though

 

[PeanutBean]

The rich/poor divide refers to who controls the money. This wikipedia article explains a bit though the data isn't very current: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_in_the_United_Kingdom. It says the top 1% of earners own 21% of the nation's wealth; the top 10% own 53% of the wealth. The top 50% (which I'm below according to those stats) own 93%. So the bottom 50% get only 7% of the nation's wealth to share between them. This is the divide. No divide would be everyone sharing wealth equally.

This link explains poverty: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_Kingdom. (Sorry for only giving wikipedia, on my phone so researching not so easy!) According to this in 2004 21-28% of children (depending on your measure) were growing up in households below the poverty line.

It's difficult to compare poverty in the UK with that in, say parts of Africa, because of our social infrastructure but there nevertheless are people living so excluded from society that they do not benefit from that infrastructure.

Whilst no-one can deny that the very vast majority of us have much more wealth than many in the developing world it by no means makes it ok that the country's wealth is so unfairly distributed. It's important to bear in mind that lower income equates to a shorter life expectancy and more illness in life. If we are talking about how to make a society fair it surely ought to be that everyone has an equal prospective life expectancy, or at least that social factors are not contributory to any decline.

 

[Eternal]

The rich/poor divide refers to who controls the money. This wikipedia article explains a bit though the data isn't very current: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_in_the_United_Kingdom. It says the top 1% of earners own 21% of the nation's wealth; the top 10% own 53% of the wealth. The top 50% (which I'm below according to those stats) own 93%. So the bottom 50% get only 7% of the nation's wealth to share between them. This is the divide. No divide would be everyone sharing wealth equally.

This link explains poverty: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_Kingdom. (Sorry for only giving wikipedia, on my phone so researching not so easy!) According to this in 2004 21-28% of children (depending on your measure) were growing up in households below the poverty line.

It's difficult to compare poverty in the UK with that in, say parts of Africa, because of our social infrastructure but there nevertheless are people living so excluded from society that they do not benefit from that infrastructure.

Whilst no-one can deny that the very vast majority of us have much more wealth than many in the developing world it by no means makes it ok that the country's wealth is so unfairly distributed. It's important to bear in mind that lower income equates to a shorter life expectancy and more illness in life. If we are talking about how to make a society fair it surely ought to be that everyone has an equal prospective life expectancy, or at least that social factors are not contributory to any decline.

Thanks for that, its def interesting reading. Curious as to what you think should happen then. You say its unfair that the wealth is unfairly distrubuted, would you prefer that everyone earn the same? That money was distributed evenly?

 

[PeanutBean]

Lol Eternal, you keep asking me unanswerable questions!

I don't know what would be most fair. For sure there's no reason to suppose everyone should have the same wealth as not everyone is likely to be equally deserving, all other things being equal. In a theoretical world with all things equal (opportunities etc) and pay proportional to value to society, responsibility, training etc then it ought to be the case that the decisions we make and our commitment would then be the only things that would lead to differences in wealth making any money earnt truly deserved. Such a world could never be. I suppose a utopia in which there is no money but a shared respect for materials, commodities and services would be awesome but there's no way that could happen and the limitations of market forces are necessary to help curb our extravagances (not that this is working with fossil fuels yet).

I dunno. I guess we should always be striving to make things more fair, working towards adequate recognition for jobs, compensation where equality is impossible (eg compensating women for time taken out of the workforce raising children), forever striving to support those who are disadvantaged and work towards equalising opportunity eg getting rid if internships, nepotism and croneyism as much as possible.

It's a messy world!

 

[PeanutBean]

Or if you want more concrete answers, I'd sort out tax evasion and relevant loopholes, introduce a mansion tax, maybe a further level of income tax for the ultra rich, increase inheritance tax, invest the taxes in education, health and targeted support for disadvantaged people at a local level, free higher education, grants for living costs for those from disadvantaged backgrounds, not pay millions to footballers and instead pay a decent salary to those in crappy jobs so that they feel they are working for something... Oh there are millions of things that could be tried if there was enough money to do it. The problem is that it's all a pipe dream!

 

[ShanandBoc]

I think i read somewhere that if all the wealth was evenly distrbuted to everyone in the world, we would all be millionaires, plenty for each person. Not sure if thats true but if it is its quite unfair and immoral that there are people starving to death.

 

[PeanutBean]

Shan for once I agree with you!

 

[Natsku]

I came into this thread thinking I'd post a long-winded answer but PeanutBean has said pretty much everything I wanted to say!

I'd also like to add that social mobility is pretty low in the UK meaning that people born into a lower income family are likely to stay lower income and same with the rich. Money flows to money.

 

[ShanandBoc]

Shan for once I agree with you!

Stranger things have happened!

 

[Maman]

the divide is only what you make it and i think its not to do with how much money you have, its to do with your attitude.

many 'poorer' people just act so dead end, theyre happy to have a moan about what they dont have, and 9/10 times its someone elses fault.

if youve ruined your life thorugh drugs/alcohol, then thats your fault, regardless of whats happened to you in the past.

if you have no qualifications, its your fault- theres enough chances in this country

if your kids dont have adequate clothing/food, then its your fault.

theres no such thing as cant get a job, its mor a case of refusal to work cleaning toilets or in macdonalds.

 

[Eternal]

the divide is only what you make it and i think its not to do with how much money you have, its to do with your attitude.

many 'poorer' people just act so dead end, theyre happy to have a moan about what they dont have, and 9/10 times its someone elses fault.

if youve ruined your life thorugh drugs/alcohol, then thats your fault, regardless of whats happened to you in the past.

if you have no qualifications, its your fault- theres enough chances in this country

if your kids dont have adequate clothing/food, then its your fault.

theres no such thing as cant get a job, its mor a case of refusal to work cleaning toilets or in macdonalds.

100% agree.

 

[PeanutBean]

I don't understand why people think that everyone can get a job if they want to. The fact of the matter is that we are in recession and there are 5 times as many people job hunting as there are vacancies. Jobs don't grow on trees. Yes there may be people who won't do certain things but it's not that simple. Even if there were sufficient jobs to go round I wouldn't want a job as a receptionist again and I wouldn't be offered one as I'm well overqualified. But it's irrelevant when there aren't enough jobs for everyone.

Plus it depends where you live. Loads of jobs in London (and people looking for them), not so many jobs in other parts of the country.

 

[indy and lara]

When my husband was made redundant in May as we wouldn't relocate to Saudi, he was clear he would do anything if he could not get work in his field- labouring,cleaning, shelf stacking, whatever. His attitude was that he had a child to care for. Did he want to do it? No. Was he over qualified? First class hons degree, Masters and Chartered I would say so. Would that stop him? No. We cannot always do what we want or are qualified for. Needs must.

 

[PeanutBean]

I was the sane when I was unemployed after my degree. The job centre gave me nothing and I didn't get a single interview for jobs I applied for (compared to always getting one in my own field since my PhD). When I went for a receptionist job in my year out before uni they even quizzed why I was applying with such good a-levels! Was your oh offered anything like that? Most employers won't because they know that person will leave at the first opportunity.

As an aside, for those with families and two earners a job would need to be more than childcare to be worth it too.

 

[Mum2b_Claire]

Yeah, minimum wage is only pennies more per hour than Ruby's childminder charges...

I know at my work we've never been keen on taking on overqualified people, we'd far rather someone under experienced who we can train up and 'improve' and get long term service from rather than someone turning up every day resenting the type of work they're doing and then leaving at the first opportunity....because they always do!

 

[Eternal]

I do agree that its hard when you are over qualified, Ive gone for interviews when I have known I have more qualifcations than the person interviewing me, but there doenst mean there isnt any jobs.

I live outside the city and just did a job serach on jobcentreplus, 250 jobs within 15 miles of my location came up. I wouldnt want any of them really, but loads of admin, cleaning, bar work, occassional avon (which isnt really a proper job so doenst count), but there are jobs.

All of which are nearly impossible if you have a child as the wage is so low that it would be pointless, but if that wasnt an issue there is jobs, and if childcare was free or subsidised there are jobs.

I have worked plenty of jobs I was over qualified to do, I was a qualified nurse and took on work as a carer, way below what I was capable of, plus lots of other things that I was over qualified for.

I know people who have been out of work for years, and the tricks they pull to not get job, its really easy really.

I also know people who struggle to get a job in our equal opportunities britian as they cant fill in an application right or answer the right questions at interview. Almost every interview is scored and most applications too, so no one cant argue its was "unfair" but ive done interviews and applications before, some people would be perfect but have no idea how to answer questions to their advanatage, and others can even though they may not be the best for a position.

 

[Mum2b_Claire]

I guess it must be big companies that score interviews etc, I've also interviewed and dealt with applications, for a small company, and nothing is that official, I like to think we'd always see past a poor interview techique / nerves etc and through to a good person.
some applications just make you LOL though, I have had them from people clearly trying not to get the job...

 

[ShanandBoc]

I don't understand why people think that everyone can get a job if they want to. The fact of the matter is that we are in recession and there are 5 times as many people job hunting as there are vacancies. Jobs don't grow on trees. Yes there may be people who won't do certain things but it's not that simple. Even if there were sufficient jobs to go round I wouldn't want a job as a receptionist again and I wouldn't be offered one as I'm well overqualified. But it's irrelevant when there aren't enough jobs for everyone.

Plus it depends where you live. Loads of jobs in London (and people looking for them), not so many jobs in other parts of the country.

Well said and exactly what i was thinking, we agree again!

 

[smokey]

I was looking through the job centre site for my area the other day and there are loads of jobs such as cleaning that most would see as too demeening but to me its a job, it pays and it stops my child going hungry.

I have done some lousy jobs in the past some that others wouldnt touch but it gave me money at the end of the day.

I get pretty sick of hearing people moan about "foreigners taking our jobs" when the truth most times is its actualy jobs that most see themselves as too above to take or see it as why should they take a low paid job when they can sit on their butts and get hended the same amount for watching daytime tv.

We are fairly well off to the point where OH wages are enough and I dont realy need to work (if we made some huge cutbacks) but for me working is a dignity thing.
Ill take sticking my hand down a toilet to clean it any day (and have done many times) if it means money in my pocket and food for my child.
I gave birth to my son and I dont want others paying for him so while im in a situation to work I will do whatever I have to.

 

[xolily]

there are so many MILLION unemployed and only so many THOUSAND job vacancies.. it's not a case of those who don't work are just being picky!