Santa - Believers and non-believers

[Zephram]

I don't think anyone is saying that without santa there is no magic to Christmas, that's putting words in people's mouths and exaggerating to prove a point. Santa is a special kind of magic and a time many adults look back on very fondly when we think about our childhoods. We want that for our kids, that's all we're saying. I think if you're not doing santa in your family, no one cares, we care that your kids don't spoil it for other kids. It's almost a rite of passage growing up to learn santa isn't real, most kids learn this gradually over time in a gentle way as they get old enough to cotton on. You raise your kids to respect others beliefs and that is all.

The argument that Santa is all about presents is really something that applies to the commercialisation of Christmas as a whole. Santa never brought us much in our house, just little 'stocking stuffers', all the good presents were from mum and dad and we were taught to appreciate this.

 

[Zephram]

And yes,its sad if kids tell kids jist to be nasty...but I would never ask mine to lie about it if asked what they thought.

I don't think parents should tell their kids to lie, it's just asking them to be respectful, discreet, and basically not be THAT kid that boasts about it not being real or picking on the kids that believe.

Exactly. It's the same with any belief, you raise your kids to respect what other people believe. Whether they believe in santa or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, it doesn't matter. Others' beliefs are not yours or your kids to judge or ruin. All you have to say is "We don't do Santa in our house, but we are going to respect that others do and let them have their fun".

 

[pompeyvix]

I don't think anyone is saying that without santa there is no magic to Christmas, that's putting words in people's mouths and exaggerating to prove a point. Santa is a special kind of magic and a time many adults look back on very fondly when we think about our childhoods. We want that for our kids, that's all we're saying. I think if you're not doing santa in your family, no one cares, we care that your kids don't spoil it for other kids. It's almost a rite of passage growing up to learn santa isn't real, most kids learn this gradually over time in a gentle way as they get old enough to cotton on. You raise your kids to respect others beliefs and that is all.

The argument that Santa is all about presents is really something that applies to the commercialisation of Christmas as a whole. Santa never brought us much in our house, just little 'stocking stuffers', all the good presents were from mum and dad and we were taught to appreciate this.

Agree with this 100%.

Growing up, Father Christmas was very much part of my Christmas. I still remember the absolute magical feeling when my mum told me she heard the sleigh bells on our house roof. I was absolutely beside myself with belief and joy. I eventually found out the truth (quite late, around 9 ) and yes, Christmas lost some of its magic, but I certainly wasn't upset or traumatised by it.

We are doing Father Christmas with our children in a similar way to what I had growing up. This year, Anabella is full of belief and excitement and it's amazng to see. I'd be so upset if another kid told her he wasn't real. I'd definitely use the 'he doesn't visit those who don't believe' line I read earlier.

They are so little for such a short space of time, I just want to embrace and make the most of it. Never again will we get those years back.

Christmas for us isn't ALL about the big man himself. We watch lots of christmas films, do christmas activities, lots of nice food and drink, put up the tree and decorations and so forth. I love this time of year and Father Christmas (for us) is just the icing on the cake to make it extra special and extra magical.

 

[staralfur]

I would tell her that some kids believe in Santa and to be respectful of that by not saying anything. I also don't think you need to tell her to lie if a kid were to ask, but my LO believes in Santa and she wouldn't specifically ask another kid if they do at this age, she just assumes everyone does.

I think it's an important life lesson, I run into this constantly having friends and meeting people who are religious, as an atheist I am happy to listen to them speak about their beliefs and would never say "I don't believe that's real" unless someone asked for my opinion on it. Being respectful of other people's beliefs is an important thing to teach a child and I think you have a good opportunity to do it here. I know if my LO learns that Santa isn't real before most of her peers that I will actively encourage her to not mention it unless asked (and if asked phrase it in a way that's clear that SHE doesn't believe it but is not dismissing his existence), and let the other kids enjoy it.

As for the magic of Christmas, I definitely think it can exist without believing in Santa, as I still feel as an adult that Christmas is the most wonderful time of the year that does feel magical and clearly I don't still believe. But for me as a child Santa was a special idea and I loved it - I couldn't imagine my daughter not having that. Of course that is just my experience and a tradition I wish to pass on, I don't judge anyone for not having the same experience or wanting to do things differently.

 

[SarahBear]

So far I've basically just told Violet that around Christmas, people like to pretend Santa is real. My husband has told her that she shouldn't tell other kids that he isn't real though. Kids talk all the time about pretend things as if they're talking about Santa, there really isn't any reason for her to just randomly say he's pretend. That's like telling a kid randomly that My Little Pony isn't real. I think the issue comes up more when people ask "what did Santa bring you?" Last year our neighbor asked her and her response was "Santa isn't real!" So... I don't actually think this will be an issue until AFTER Christmas.

 

[ClairAye]

I think Santa was ruined for me at 4 by my sister? I'm not sure but I barely remember believing in Santa and don't remember finding out he's not real, even though I was apparently mortified lol. That being said, I'd be pretty pissed if a kid at nursery told mine Santa wasn't real, especially as this is the first year he really understands it but I also know I'd be able to convince him he was real (because I want Santa to last a couple of years yet).

If I didn't do Santa I would talk to my kids and tell them that other kids believe in Santa and not to tell other kids that he isn't real. I do know of a kid who told a whole class he wasn't real (this was about 20 years ago!) and there were some pretty unhappy parents after that.

 

[Midnight_Fairy]

So far I've basically just told Violet that around Christmas, people like to pretend Santa is real. My husband has told her that she shouldn't tell other kids that he isn't real though. Kids talk all the time about pretend things as if they're talking about Santa, there really isn't any reason for her to just randomly say he's pretend. That's like telling a kid randomly that My Little Pony isn't real. I think the issue comes up more when people ask "what did Santa bring you?" Last year our neighbor asked her and her response was "Santa isn't real!" So... I don't actually think this will be an issue until AFTER Christmas.

Yes exactly this. To mine there was never a reason to suddenly say to others 'actually santa is not real' because he is 'real' to them as a part of christmas...but he does not 'exist'.

We talk about santa but they know he is just that part of christmas. My daughter gets sad about food banks and stuff. I dont agree with saying he only comes to those who believe as makes me think of some poor kid in a war ravaged country or some child even closer to home despretly beliving and not getting anything thats why I was saying my beliefs and about all coming together. I wasnt trying 'to prove a point' lol gave up on that years ago on this forum!
More just saying that kids cant be punished for what they say, if they say he is real or not real I really dont think people can get annoyed or angry over kids saying something that the parents know is true? Ive heard of kids being in trouble at school for saying it. Really OTT in my opinion. Like I said, of its said in a taunting way its different....but children should be listened too. Not encouraged to not speak what they feel or think.

 

[AngelUK]

In a way I'd be relieved if someone told my boys he is not real . We did tell them about Santa and everyone in my family seems to think it is a bit of harmless Christmas magic. It never was for me, as the Santa who came to our house (we celebrated on Christmas Eve in the evening and Santa came to our house before we were allowed to open presents and had a talk with us) was mean and strict and from 4y I knew it was a friend of my father's anyway and it was just something horrid to get through for the nice bit after. Also, originally I was super against it for my boys cause I remember how shocked I was as a kid to find out that my parents lied to me (about something else) and I wondered if that shock would not outweigh any special magic for my boys. I feel kinda bad for telling them a tale when I think about it but I am ok with going with it as my OH really wants them to believe. I just hope no one dares suggest that Santa won't come to them if they are naughty. I cannot abide by threats like that.

 

[loeylo]

So far I've basically just told Violet that around Christmas, people like to pretend Santa is real. My husband has told her that she shouldn't tell other kids that he isn't real though. Kids talk all the time about pretend things as if they're talking about Santa, there really isn't any reason for her to just randomly say he's pretend. That's like telling a kid randomly that My Little Pony isn't real. I think the issue comes up more when people ask "what did Santa bring you?" Last year our neighbor asked her and her response was "Santa isn't real!" So... I don't actually think this will be an issue until AFTER Christmas.

Couldn't you just ask her to day "my mum and dad bought me ..." Rather than "Santa isn't real" - she isn't lying and also isn't ruining kids Christmases that way!

Santa didn't really buy me anything. My parents told me that people sent presents to Santa and he just delivered them, but he had a workshop where he made some toys and gave the children a few small toys if they have been well behaved. I knew my parents brought all the presents and they were addressed "from mummy and daddy" - so basically Santa was a glorified postman in our house.

We were also taught that Santa only came to houses of people who celebrated Christmas, because not everyone does, and that different countries had their own version of Santa who comes at different times of the year. I think that was added to the story when I started asking why Santa didn't visit my muslim friends house haha. Or maybe it was when I started asking about hoe he got around the entire world?

 

[redneckhippy]

This is an interesting discussion. My son is almost 2 so still won't understand this year but I have wondered how I will handle Santa. I don't want to do Santa as I don't like the idea of lying, but my husband is very pro Santa. I suppose we have at least another year to figure it out.

 

[adrie]

My spouse was raised in a family that taught the truth about Santa, though his parents taught them not to teach other kids what they knew. IMO, that is the route to go; it's not really your place to be telling other kids that Santa doesn't exist, and your children's awareness and telling other kids is essentially the same thing, and not appropriate. He and his brothers were actually quite arrogant in their understanding about it in relation to other kids from what he has told me.

I was raised in a family that shared in the joy of Santa, and no, no other kids told me he didn't exist. I ended up finding the Easter bunny's treats for us one year before the morning of, don't remember how old I was. Sometime in elementary school, probably in the 7-10 range; no idea.

 

[_Meep_]

In our house, Santa only delivered the stockings. The bigger presents downstairs were from our parents. I feel that was pretty savvy of them, in that they got most of the well-deserved gratitude for the presents, rather than it all being put down to a fictional being lol.

However, having Santa leave the stocking at the end of your bed made what was essentially a bunch of small, relatively insignificant gifts and edibles incredibly special and exciting. We will be doing the same with our children.

Christmas was an incredibly magical time for me, and I wouldn't attribute that solely to the Santa idea (lovely though it is), so I don't agree that to have no Santa is to have no magic at all. There are plenty of other magical things that go on. For me, it really wasn't even just because of the presents, but because of everything - having croissants and juice for breakfast, sitting down to a wonderful lunch, beautiful music, being with family and feeling like everyone was happy, playing games or setting up the Scalextric track in the middle of the living room and racing the cars together ...

I stopped believing in Santa quite early I think (though carried on for my younger brother for a couple of years afterwards), but I do remember when I DID believe and how that felt. Thus, because I will be perpetuating the idea, I'd be really sad and disappointed for either of my children if another child told them the truth. And though it may be seen as selfish, I'd be sad for me too, because if my children could feel HALF the wonderment and joy I felt at Christmas, I'd be so happy. They're the best memories I have.

So I hope you can strike a balance between Violet not having to lie and Violet not spoiling the idea for other kids. She sounds like a smart kid who wouldn't just go around telling people to be mean, so I'm sure it will be fine.

 

[MindUtopia]

I wouldn't worry about it. It's a story and kids are used to stories and they are also used to disagreeing with each other. Mine comes home from preschool saying all sorts of wacky things that her friends have told her.

We do sort of believe in Santa. I mean, I'm Jewish, so we only celebrate Christmas in our house from a cultural rather than religious perspective (my husband grew up celebrating Christmas even though he isn't Christian). Santa isn't a religious thing anyway really, but we do leave cookies and carrots for Santa and the reindeer and Santa leaves the stockings. So though we do sort of believe in the myth, it's a very minor part of our holiday celebrations and not a whole lot different than lots of other stories we tell around holidays. I'm not sure even if my daughter thinks Santa is real, or just part of the play and storytelling we do at Christmas time. I think kids have much more flexibility when it comes to real or pretend than we do as adults. The line isn't so black and white.

That said, I wouldn't be upset if she came home and said that a friend said Santa wasn't 'real,' because it's not like we've ever really said he is and I don't think she would care too much. But I know other families go all out with very elaborate stories about Santa and it's a much bigger deal for some people. I think you could talk to her about how it's a story and some people believe in it more than others, so we shouldn't try to tell anyone else what they should or shouldn't believe and leave it at that. I think kids can understand play and make believe and letting other kids believe and play how they want with stories. I wouldn't be upset though if that happened to us. If it's important enough in your family celebrations, I think there is always a way to counter that and still make in magical even when there is doubt.

 

[_jellybean_]

Hi I'd just tell her not to say anything to other kids....tell her that some children do believe in him, and that's okay because everyone is different. There are so many kids who don't believe--different religions. My children will be going to a school with many children who don't believe in Santa, so I expect some kids to tell them that santa's not real.

But that's okay. Kids will be kids. I can understand a child who doesn't celebrate Christmas being jealous that lots of other kids get gifts "from Santa," but they don't get any. I can understand even the kindest child getting upset and telling my kids that Santa isn't real. And I couldn't be upset with another child or parent b/c of that.

 

[MelH]

I allow my son to believe in Santa and play along as it is all part of the Xmas fantasy and i want him to be able to enjoy it with the other kids but I will ensure that he knows the true meaning of Xmas as well as soon as he is old enough to understand

 

[Bella1185]

Just tell Violet that if the subject of Santa comes up she can simply say "Santa only comes to the homes of those who believe".

If pressed she can say she doesn't believe so he doesn't go to her house (and the kids who believe will still have their magic)

Ideally, it won't be a talking point. But since you're concerned, and since she is able to think in depth about the entire situation, then hopefully that reply would be satisfying to her classmates, and also your family.

Honestly, I really truly hope that discussion never arises for Violet or her classmates. Call me an old fart but I find 4 years old to be depressingly young to have such impactful existential conversation....yet alas, here we are....

 

[SarahBear]

I know I asked for advice, but I sort of feel like I should just tell her that other people like to pretend he's real around this time of year and just leave it at that.

This whole Santa thing is weird where people lie to their kids and then I have to worry about whether or not my kid will mention the truth... Then of course there's also the tooth fairy (not there yet), Easter Bunny, and what other things do parents try to tell their kids are real? We don't do any of those things. We actually do do the easter bunny in a way... But it's a stuffed bunny that's clearly fake.

 

[.Mrs.B.]

Haha, it is weird when you really think about it.
Anyway, I read this on facebook and thought here would be a good place to share;


"In our family, we have a special way of transitioning the kids from receiving from Santa, to becoming a Santa. This way, the Santa construct is not a lie that gets discovered, but an unfolding series of good deeds and Christmas spirit.
When they are 6 or 7, whenever you see that dawning suspicion that Santa may not be a material being, that means the child is ready.
I take them out "for coffee" at the local wherever. We get a booth, order our drinks, and the following pronouncement is made:
“You sure have grown an awful lot this year. Not only are you taller, but I can see that your heart has grown, too. [ Point out 2-3 examples of empathetic behavior, consideration of people's feelings, good deeds etc, the kid has done in the past year]. In fact, your heart has grown so much that I think you are ready to become a Santa Claus.
You probably have noticed that most of the Santas you see are people dressed up like him. Some of your friends might have even told you that there is no Santa. A lot of children think that, because they aren't ready to BE a Santa yet, but YOU ARE.
Tell me the best things about Santa. What does Santa get for all of his trouble? [lead the kid from "cookies" to the good feeling of having done something for someone else]. Well, now YOU are ready to do your first job as a Santa!"
Make sure you maintain the proper conspiratorial tone.
We then have the child choose someone they know--a neighbor, usually. The child's mission is to secretly, deviously, find out something that the person needs, and then provide it, wrap it, deliver it--and never reveal to the target where it came from. Being a Santa isn't about getting credit, you see. It's unselfish giving.
My oldest chose the "witch lady" on the corner. She really was horrible--had a fence around the house and would never let the kids go in and get a stray ball or Frisbee. She'd yell at them to play quieter, etc--a real pill. He noticed when we drove to school that she came out every morning to get her paper in bare feet, so he decided she needed slippers. So then he had to go spy and decide how big her feet were. He hid in the bushes one Saturday, and decided she was a medium. We went to Kmart and bought warm slippers. He wrapped them up, and tagged it "merry Christmas from Santa." After dinner one evening, he slipped down to her house, and slid the package under her driveway gate. The next morning, we watched her waddle out to get the paper, pick up the present, and go inside. My son was all excited, and couldn't wait to see what would happen next. The next morning, as we drove off, there she was, out getting her paper--wearing the slippers. He was ecstatic. I had to remind him that NO ONE could ever know what he did, or he wouldn't be a Santa.
Over the years, he chose a good number of targets, always coming up with a unique present just for them. One year, he polished up his bike, put a new seat on it, and gave it to one of our friend's daughters. These people were and are very poor. We did ask the dad if it was ok. The look on her face, when she saw the bike on the patio with a big bow on it, was almost as good as the look on my son's face.
When it came time for Son #2 to join the ranks, my oldest came along, and helped with the induction speech. They are both excellent gifters, by the way, and never felt that they had been lied to--because they were let in on the Secret of Being a Santa."

 

[pompeyvix]

I know I asked for advice, but I sort of feel like I should just tell her that other people like to pretend he's real around this time of year and just leave it at that.

This whole Santa thing is weird where people lie to their kids and then I have to worry about whether or not my kid will mention the truth... Then of course there's also the tooth fairy (not there yet), Easter Bunny, and what other things do parents try to tell their kids are real? We don't do any of those things. We actually do do the easter bunny in a way... But it's a stuffed bunny that's clearly fake.

Hmmm I wouldn't call myself weird for letting my little girl believe in Father Christmas. I get that's not what you want to do and that's obviously your choice, but there are many many parents who do and that's ok too. I don't see it as lying per se, more letting her believe in some magic and fuelling her imagination. I seriously don't see it as a big deal and certainly not weird!

 

[Midnight_Fairy]

Have you read the tales of the Female Reindeer and the sintaklaus (sp?) They make much more sense and help my kids understand why some people say santa etc and see the magic from a more traditional 'real' basis.

Someone told my DD santa only comes to those that are good. That really wound me up lol. The whole 'being good' thing just grates me.