School staff treating small 4 year old as if she is "slow".

[adrie]

Hey all,

Just wanted to share that we have enrolled our daughter for kindergarten in the fall; she will be 5 at the end of October. Sessions are just under 3 hours 4x per week with alternating Friday's every other week for 4 hours.

She is on the small side (31 lbs) and 38-39 inches. She has a bit of an articulation issue we have been getting help for at her preschool 1-2x per week. Her pre-k teacher there stated that some of the therapists treat her like she is her size rather than her true age. For reference, an average 3 year old. I could tell it bothered the teacher also as she was expressing how clever our daughter is to me personally. I should also say that she says the other kids understand our daughter 100%

Her speech is okay; I'm looking to get some extra sessions in July and August before school starts in September. Other than that she is pretty much on par in terms of her knowledge and abilities for her age.

Anyways, we attended her school's meet and greet the other day, and as soon as we walked in the door a lady is asking my daughter to undo her buttons on her coat (which she did up to begin with at home). Later on a different woman brought two welcome bags that were different colors when my daughter specifically asked for her color of preference. Stuff like this annoys me because I asked my child which colour she wanted without naming them and I know if my kid knows her dang colours! I always just keep quiet with things like this; I think because I'm taken off guard and I don't know how to respond.

I feel like these situations indicate that people believe my daughter to be slow and then treat her as such. I have seen staff at pre-k act similarly but have brushed it off as she is receiving services for an articulation delay. I could understand if either of these women were her teacher to be and/or she was already in school, but they are not and it bothers me otherwise. I feel like I want to start saying something when these things happen, as obviously it's something I'm going to have to encounter from time to time. Any thoughts? Thanks for reading!

 

[noon_child]

I'm not sure what to say re the therapists because if another teacher is concerned then maybe it needs bringing up - especially if it is impacting on whether they have the correct expectations of her - but would have thought that she, as the professional who has witnessed the behaviour, should have done so. What are you supposed to do if you haven't seen it yourself?

Regarding the school, I'm a bit unsure exactly what bothers you about what was said. I wasn't there so maybe I have misunderstood but perhaps because you expect people to treat her as younger then you interpret what has happened as coming from their prejudice rather than being how they treat everyone. I'm not sure how asking a child to unbutton their coat is treating them as slow - surely it's asking them to undertake (what can be for a lot of children) a tricky task. Children develop different skills at different points (I hope teachers wouldn't think in terms of "slow" and "bright" children) and I know where I live, where children have to attend school full time once they are 5yr old, it is important for the school to assess and encourage development of things like undoing buttons; this is because for PE lessons they have to get undressed and dressed and there is not enough time for two staff to do 32 children's buttons!!

Regarding the colours, perhaps due to articulation (or maybe even poor hearing on the teachers side), the person in question just didn't know what your daughter had said. Rather than draw attention to it, or embarrass her she thought it better to bring both as she may think of it as quite normal for a 4yr old not to know (or to be too shy to say) all their colours. Until they know her, and all the other children, it is surely better that they treat them with a compassionate attitude? If once they get to know her they are still having low expectations, then that might be more of a concern.

Perhaps rather than get angry inside but say nothing you could bring it up with them ahead of time. Something like "In the past, due to her small size and a few articulation issues, there have been people who have treated my daughter as years younger than she actually is. I want to feel that she is being stretched and challenged, so thought I should let you know this is a concern of mine and that I'd like you to make sure you are seeing her as nearly 5 years old." Although to be honest any teacher SHOULD be meeting a child at the developmental point they are at REGARDLESS of their actual age. Unconscious bias is a powerful force though so mentioning your concerns might be worthwhile.

 

[adrie]

Thanks for the long reply. I like your suggestion at the end.

It seems these things woiuldn't bother you and that is fine, we are different people. But they bother me, which I'm allowed to feel right?

These things keep on happening and an average 4.5 year old should know all her colours, buttons, shapes, abc's, write/recognize name, trace numbers, abc's, basic counting or number recognition (ie. please grab me 3 diapers), etc., etc. These are average skills obtained by this age. Does that make more sense? My kid knows all of this stuff so it's like she is constantly being tested by these types, and it's annoying.

I don't think it's appropriate for a complete stranger to tell my daughter to undo her buttons the moment we meet; she is my kid so I think there is a boundary issue as well. This woman was not her upcoming teacher, in fact, I'll probably not see her again. I think it's awkward and strange.

The other woman did hear what my daughter said as there were 3 or 4 colours to choose from (of which she brought 2) and when my daughter grabbed the correct colour she said something to the effect of "I can't trick you!" (haha... as if it were a joke).

Thanks again for your reply. I know this is something I'm going to have to address.

 

[noon_child]

It seems these things woiuldn't bother you and that is fine, we are different people. But they bother me, which I'm allowed to feel right? :thumb:

...an average 4.5 year old should know all her colours, buttons, shapes, abc's, write/recognize name, trace numbers, abc's, basic counting or number recognition (ie. please grab me 3 diapers), etc., etc. These are average skills obtained by this age. Does that make more sense? My kid knows all of this stuff so it's like she is constantly being tested by these types, and it's annoying.

Absolutely you can feel bothered - it just wasn't obvious to me exactly what had bothered you about it. I think I now understand you better. You have a clear idea of what 4yr olds should know but you think others are assuming your daughter wont know it because she is small. This might be the case, but I would add two things:
1) I don't think there is a set thing children should know by 4yrs old (academically). Yes there are developmental norms but not academic ones. Your child has attended pre-K and you are obviously a very involved parent who has followed and encouraged your child's interest in learning, so she has these skills. There will be children who haven't attended pre-k and whose parents may not have been so involved.
2) Given number 1, it is the schools job not to assume any level of understanding from any child. They have to talk to them, assess them and get to know them. It sounds like the school perhaps did this in a bit of a clumsy and patronising way, but honestly they have no way of knowing that your daughter has any of these skills (nothing to do with her size) and it would be wrong of them to assume all children can do these things as it would leave many of them out of their depth and floundering.

I do kinda understand it is irritating - my daughter's school irritate me often but I just try to remember it comes from a place of caring even if I think it is patronising and annoying. e.g my daughter was standing on a two foot wall in the playground and I was standing directly in from of her (literally about 8 inches from her) when the headmistress walked past and said to my daughter "Ohhh be careful, don't fall!" and I'm thinking "I'm her Mum and I'm RIGHT HERE. Am I likely not to be giving a crap about whether she falls? Plus she is 5 years old and standing perfectly still on a two foot wall, she's hardly cartwheeling on the school roof!" But I just had to breathe and remember she's just programmed to worry and it's better she cares than is a robot just caring about test scores etc.

Thanks for the reply and explaining a bit more about where you are coming from. I hope bringing it up with the school helps reassure you. Good Luck with her exciting new chapter!

 

[Eleanor ace]

I imagine the teacher asked her to unbutton her coat because that is what they usually do in her classroom (coats off as you come in) and perhaps bought 2 party bags because she didn't recall which colour your DD requested, it seems like an odd thing to test your DD on as she is 4.5 so unless they had been told that she was very delayed they would expect her to know her colours and surely wouldn't think to test her on it. But obviously this isn't a stand-alone issue, these are two instances which represent a pattern in how your DD is treated in your opinion and that must be very frustrating.
It isn't something I have experienced; DD1 is 5 but quite small (she's the smallest in her class and is smaller than a lot of the children at the attached nursery at her school) but I've never been aware of people treating her as if she were "simple" based on her size. It seems particularly odd that it is happening in a school setting, as they will be all too aware of how impossible it is to judge a child's ability by their stature. I would absolutely discuss it if you feel that your DD isn't being viewed as she is ability wise, you want to feel confident that you are sending your DD to the right school for her.

 

[Eleanor ace]

Oh another thought, maybe they were trying to big your DD up and make her feel reassured that school isn't going to be super hard, giving her an easy task like identifying a colour and then praising her when she could? I know when my kids were settling in at school their teacher would praise the class for doing really simple stuff (like sitting on a chair ) and it did help them to feel confident in the setting.

 

[adrie]

It seems these things woiuldn't bother you and that is fine, we are different people. But they bother me, which I'm allowed to feel right? :thumb:

...an average 4.5 year old should know all her colours, buttons, shapes, abc's, write/recognize name, trace numbers, abc's, basic counting or number recognition (ie. please grab me 3 diapers), etc., etc. These are average skills obtained by this age. Does that make more sense? My kid knows all of this stuff so it's like she is constantly being tested by these types, and it's annoying.

Absolutely you can feel bothered - it just wasn't obvious to me exactly what had bothered you about it. I think I now understand you better. You have a clear idea of what 4yr olds should know but you think others are assuming your daughter wont know it because she is small. This might be the case, but I would add two things:
1) I don't think there is a set thing children should know by 4yrs old (academically). Yes there are developmental norms but not academic ones. Your child has attended pre-K and you are obviously a very involved parent who has followed and encouraged your child's interest in learning, so she has these skills. There will be children who haven't attended pre-k and whose parents may not have been so involved.
2) Given number 1, it is the schools job not to assume any level of understanding from any child. They have to talk to them, assess them and get to know them. It sounds like the school perhaps did this in a bit of a clumsy and patronising way, but honestly they have no way of knowing that your daughter has any of these skills (nothing to do with her size) and it would be wrong of them to assume all children can do these things as it would leave many of them out of their depth and floundering.

I do kinda understand it is irritating - my daughter's school irritate me often but I just try to remember it comes from a place of caring even if I think it is patronising and annoying. e.g my daughter was standing on a two foot wall in the playground and I was standing directly in from of her (literally about 8 inches from her) when the headmistress walked past and said to my daughter "Ohhh be careful, don't fall!" and I'm thinking "I'm her Mum and I'm RIGHT HERE. Am I likely not to be giving a crap about whether she falls? Plus she is 5 years old and standing perfectly still on a two foot wall, she's hardly cartwheeling on the school roof!" But I just had to breathe and remember she's just programmed to worry and it's better she cares than is a robot just caring about test scores etc.

Thanks for the reply and explaining a bit more about where you are coming from. I hope bringing it up with the school helps reassure you. Good Luck with her exciting new chapter!

See, I'd have a problem with that situation that you've mentioned, especially if the woman knew you were the parent. Because it's in essence undermining your parenting. It's like she is declaring it more so for your benefit rather than your 5 year old child. It's 2 feet. And she's 5. Not a toddler just learning to walk. Yes she could fall, but that's how they learn. There is a real paranoia going on with parents these days.

Some random lady at a play place raced over to my daughter as she was hanging upside down on some monkey bars. I was watching and she was not in any danger. She is actually very cautious and will ask for help if needed. I didn't say anything because I could tell by the look on the woman's face she was concerned, and my daughter is tiny, so maybe she thought she was 2 years old or something. It was priceless actually.

 

[noon_child]

... my daughter's school irritate me often but I just try to remember it comes from a place of caring even if I think it is patronising and annoying. e.g my daughter was standing on a two foot wall in the playground and I was standing directly in from of her (literally about 8 inches from her) when the headmistress walked past and said to my daughter "Ohhh be careful, don't fall!" and I'm thinking "I'm her Mum and I'm RIGHT HERE. Am I likely not to be giving a crap about whether she falls? Plus she is 5 years old and standing perfectly still on a two foot wall, she's hardly cartwheeling on the school roof!" But I just had to breathe and remember she's just programmed to worry and it's better she cares than is a robot just caring about test scores etc.

See, I'd have a problem with that situation that you've mentioned, especially if the woman knew you were the parent. Because it's in essence undermining your parenting. It's like she is declaring it more so for your benefit rather than your 5 year old child. It's 2 feet. And she's 5. Not a toddler just learning to walk. Yes she could fall, but that's how they learn. There is a real paranoia going on with parents these days.

I agree, and it did bug me but I just decided there were better battles to pick, rolled my eyes internally and tried to move on (still mentioning it now though!!). Had it become a pattern I might have said something but as a one off "headmistress on autopilot" I decided to let it go. I mean it must be horrid to be her, so stressed all the time about health and safety that she's panicky about a child who is WITH their parent!