Should National Service be reintroduced?

[Tasha]

I just come across this bill https://services.parliament.uk/bills/2013-14/nationalservice.html it is a private members vote/debate so the details of what in entails will not be published until closer to the 6th September when it goes to parliament for it's second reading.

There is already this petition https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/uk-government-stop-the-national-service-bill-2013-14 which takes it to mean that the NS would be military based, but of course there is a possibility that it would take on another form.

So what are your thoughts, no national service at all? National service but with restrictions? National service with no military involvement? Or do you agree with the NS and conscription to the armed forces?

So interested to hear your thoughts.

 

[bumpy_j]

No, I don't think there should be any compulsory National Service - but perhaps an opt-in alternative programme with financial support. It would look impressive on a CV and would give valuable experience to some willing participants but I don't think it should be forced - especially military based as it can clash with certain peoples personal ideologies (e.g if pacifist), especially whilst we're already involved in unpopular wars.

Saying that, I've always felt some form of National Service would be effective for rehabilitating young prisoners when released - would perhaps give them a little direction after time inside.

 

[Larkspur]

Can't see the point of compulsory military service in an age when the traditional form of men-on-the-ground armed conflict is becoming less and less how wars are fought.

I would put $1000 on a bet that there will not be another conscripted war for First World countries in my lifetime.

 

[Sarahkka]

Actually, I love the idea of a year of service. I think that would be a great thing to do after high school. But I don't think it should be military at all. I think it should combine community or international works, should have many different streams so that participants can explore areas of interest and/or skill-build, and should foster the social ethics of caring and working for others in society.
Yes, I am a hippie.
And I know this isn't really what the OP meant, but isn't it kind of a cool idea?

 

[Natsku]

I think National Service is a good thing but not if its only military. I like how its done here, you can choose to do military service or civilian service. My brother did civilian service (well initially he did military but he couldn't hack it) and spent the year working in a research lab and they ended up giving him a job afterwards.

 

[bumpy_j]

Actually, I love the idea of a year of service. I think that would be a great thing to do after high school. But I don't think it should be military at all. I think it should combine community or international works, should have many different streams so that participants can explore areas of interest and/or skill-build, and should foster the social ethics of caring and working for others in society.
Yes, I am a hippie.
And I know this isn't really what the OP meant, but isn't it kind of a cool idea?

That sounds awesome !

 

[Kate&Lucas]

I think National Service is a good thing but not if its only military. I like how its done here, you can choose to do military service or civilian service. My brother did civilian service (well initially he did military but he couldn't hack it) and spent the year working in a research lab and they ended up giving him a job afterwards.

That actually sounds great, I think we should have something like this.

 

[Tasha]

Sarah that sounds amazing, I think realistically we are more likely to end up with something more like Nats says.

My thoughts are that I really don't like the idea of forcing people in to the military (and lets face it the military couldn't afford to pay all those wages any way) but I do like the idea of NS. I think that it will show some people what it feels like to be a valued member of society, the value of that can not be under estimated IMO.

 

[Natsku]

Sarah that sounds amazing, I think realistically we are more likely to end up with something more like Nats says.

My thoughts are that I really don't like the idea of forcing people in to the military (and lets face it the military couldn't afford to pay all those wages any way) but I do like the idea of NS. I think that it will show some people what it feels like to be a valued member of society, the value of that can not be under estimated IMO.

They wouldn't pay normal wages though surely? Here they get paid something like 5 euros a day (women get a little extra for feminine care needs!) so not much at all (they do cover rent and electricity bills though and if the conscript has a family the family gets some money as well)

 

[Natsku]

Actually, I love the idea of a year of service. I think that would be a great thing to do after high school. But I don't think it should be military at all. I think it should combine community or international works, should have many different streams so that participants can explore areas of interest and/or skill-build, and should foster the social ethics of caring and working for others in society.
Yes, I am a hippie.
And I know this isn't really what the OP meant, but isn't it kind of a cool idea?

They do that a bit here in the civilian service, for their basic training they are in a camp for a month having lectures and workshops and stuff in first aid, peace education, internationalism and non-violent resistance.

 

[Tasha]

They wouldn't pay normal wages though surely? Here they get paid something like 5 euros a day (women get a little extra for feminine care needs!) so not much at all (they do cover rent and electricity bills though and if the conscript has a family the family gets some money as well)

Well there are the minimum wage laws, they cover even when you live in some where now I think. But even if it didn't our rent is £1.5k a month and the military is already on it's bare bones so it simply couldn't afford that, electric etc for numerous people.

 

[Pearls18]

No my husband and I don't like the idea of national service, while it might be beneficial to the "applicants" it wouldn't be to the military and currently serving military personnel, my husband clearly says he would not want to stand and fight with someone who does not want to be there. I think we feel it demeans the military to a degree, while they would presumbly be given a "lesser job" training is often in excess of 6 months and literally costs £100,000s to train some trades, the government wouldn't spend this on the applicants thus they wouldn't be trained to the same quality standards as the rest of the military. You need to be a certain type of character to be in the military, and let's just say that kind of character wouldn't want to be working alongside those who don't want to be there.

If there was a need for conscription and appropriate jobs it would be a different story, but with the massive cuts being made at the moment it isn't appropriate in 21st century Britain and think it devalues what the military, it isn't a rehabiliation centre.

Having said that DH and I don't agree with reserve units either and have pretty strong opinions on that, but these are our own opinions and not ones of his employer lol....

 

[Tasha]

Thanks for your input Mwag, it's an interesting perspective. I can totally see why you guys feel that.

Do you mean the territorial army? If so, can I ask why? Feel free to PM if you don't feel comfortable writing it here, or tell me to bugger off if you don't want to say.

 

[Pearls18]

Thanks for your input Mwag, it's an interesting perspective. I can totally see why you guys feel that.

Do you mean the territorial army? If so, can I ask why? Feel free to PM if you don't feel comfortable writing it here, or tell me to bugger off if you don't want to say.

I will PM you hun because it is hard to put across our opinion (we do have different opinions for other subjects but on this particular one we agree, in case we sound weird haha) without sounding disrespectful, I have the upmost respect for anyone who fights in the military but yeah don’t like the concept of a voluntary military but won’t air it all publicly.

 

[Tasha]

Thank you MWag x

 

[dgirllamius]

We had it here but it was scrapped in 2011. I don't know much about it but my oh said you had a choice of either military or something else. Only men had to do it and you did it for 9 months. I don't know the full details and whether it was a good thing or not. Not sure it'd be good to be brought back.

 

[Tasha]

Oh, that's interesting that it was only recently you got rid of it.

 

[Sarahkka]

mwag, I agree with you - people in the military should be there through choice and personal conviction. But if the military were one of many service options, then it would be a choice, wouldn't it?
I also wonder about the cost of such a year. If there were no wages - just living costs being paid - and if real, necessary work was being completed on various projects, would it be cost effective? I don't know. If the costs are reasonable, I think it would be an interesting social experiment.

 

[Pearls18]

If people want to be in the military they can sign up at the age of 16 it's open to most people, it shouldn't be a social experiment and even if there was a choice what if it was the best of a bad bunch and they still wouldn't want to be there? What if people join for the wrong reaons "ooo a uniform", when someone signs up to the military they know they are signing up for 4 years and have to dedicate their lives in a way you don't do in many other careers. I still think it demeans the military to make it seem like a career choice anyone can be forced to do or even capable of, 9-12 months in the military isn't really going to bring them up to any kind of standard the military is used to.

 

[Pearls18]

Plus it can be hard to get in the military depending on the trade, you need to be fit, you have to have a certain level of intelligence, this again flies in the face of the normal process by accepting anyone because of their age.

Doesn't Italy still have conscription?