Smacking your child in public

[little_lady]

In fairness, I don't think anecdotal evidence ("I was smacked and I'm fine) is really applicable. Obviously not everyone who was smacked as a child will be affected negatively, just as not every pregnant woman who eats deli meat will end up with food poisining. But most recent studies do show it's either ineffective or harmful.

I don't know, this is one case where I do think anecdotal evidence counts. Surely the studies can only really rely on similar evidence, there can hardly be a scientific environment where all other factors can be ruled out. What control was used in the studies?

Food poisoning can be easily traced back to bad meat. Tracing adult problems back is another matter entirely. Obviously child abuse has real effects, but the abuse is in how the child is treated overall, not the means of discipline. I would like to see any study that claims it can prove a link between a swat on the bottom and negative behaviour in the (older) child that wasn't there in the first place. There's just so many contributing factors, the difference in children personalities being one of them, that I would say a good/clued up parent knows if a light smack works or if they are really just hurting their child for no reason.

 

[patooti]

I can't believe that it can be considered a debate at all whether hitting your kids for any reason is okay at any age. It's not okay to hit your spouse, or any other adult, so why do some people think it's okay to hit a child?

Because there is a major difference to the way you would hit a spouse or adult to how you smack a child! For people to say it is the same is rediculous and I really feel sorry for them if they have experienced in life someone abusing a child. A smack on the hand or bottom is not done to hurt the child, it is to teach cause and effect. A smack to a spouse or adult is fully intended to harm and do damage.

A smack is meant to do damage, period. If using it for discipline it has to be something that "gets attention" and that the child is afraid of. That's why it appears to work.

It's just wrong. You can dress it up all you like but it's still hitting a helpless child and one that trusts you 100%. Just imagine if this thread were about wives. Imagine husbands saying that is she does something repeatedly to "misbehave" then a little smack to get her attention would be in order. Sounds pretty bad doesn't it. I don't think it is better when it's a child, in fact it's worse. Heck I don't even think it is ok when it is a dog!

It's pretty simple, don't hit your kids! Challenge yourself to find better, more mature ways to teach them to grow into good people. I'm so so glad it is against the law here. You can go to jail for spanking here, just as you could for smacking your wife.

 

[LDC]

I can't believe that it can be considered a debate at all whether hitting your kids for any reason is okay at any age. It's not okay to hit your spouse, or any other adult, so why do some people think it's okay to hit a child?

Because there is a major difference to the way you would hit a spouse or adult to how you smack a child! For people to say it is the same is rediculous and I really feel sorry for them if they have experienced in life someone abusing a child. A smack on the hand or bottom is not done to hurt the child, it is to teach cause and effect. A smack to a spouse or adult is fully intended to harm and do damage.

A smack is meant to do damage, period. If using it for discipline it has to be something that "gets attention" and that the child is afraid of. That's why it appears to work.

It's just wrong. You can dress it up all you like but it's still hitting a helpless child and one that trusts you 100%. Just imagine if this thread were about wives. Imagine husbands saying that is she does something repeatedly to "misbehave" then a little smack to get her attention would be in order. Sounds pretty bad doesn't it. I don't think it is better when it's a child, in fact it's worse. Heck I don't even think it is ok when it is a dog!

It's pretty simple, don't hit your kids! Challenge yourself to find better, more mature ways to teach them to grow into good people. I'm so so glad it is against the law here. You can go to jail for spanking here, just as you could for smacking your wife.

Again relating to my post on the previous page...I was smacked as a child so does that mean I'm not a good person?

This kinda rubbish makes me not want to use bnb as much anymore.

See my other post for full explanation of what I mean before just reading this answer

X

 

[patooti]

I can't believe that it can be considered a debate at all whether hitting your kids for any reason is okay at any age. It's not okay to hit your spouse, or any other adult, so why do some people think it's okay to hit a child?

Because there is a major difference to the way you would hit a spouse or adult to how you smack a child! For people to say it is the same is rediculous and I really feel sorry for them if they have experienced in life someone abusing a child. A smack on the hand or bottom is not done to hurt the child, it is to teach cause and effect. A smack to a spouse or adult is fully intended to harm and do damage.

A smack is meant to do damage, period. If using it for discipline it has to be something that "gets attention" and that the child is afraid of. That's why it appears to work.

It's just wrong. You can dress it up all you like but it's still hitting a helpless child and one that trusts you 100%. Just imagine if this thread were about wives. Imagine husbands saying that is she does something repeatedly to "misbehave" then a little smack to get her attention would be in order. Sounds pretty bad doesn't it. I don't think it is better when it's a child, in fact it's worse. Heck I don't even think it is ok when it is a dog!

It's pretty simple, don't hit your kids! Challenge yourself to find better, more mature ways to teach them to grow into good people. I'm so so glad it is against the law here. You can go to jail for spanking here, just as you could for smacking your wife.

Again relating to my post on the previous page...I was smacked as a child so does that mean I'm not a good person?

This kinda rubbish makes me not want to use bnb as much anymore.

See my other post for full explanation of what I mean before just reading this answer

X

I was smacked as a child too. Not beaten just spanked. My parents did it because they thought it was best. I'm a good person. I never said kids that are smacked turn out to be bad people but that doesn't make it right to hit a child. It isn't the child's fault that they were exposed to that kind if "discipline".

I read the posts. I just don't agree. There are lots of strong opinions on the "for" side in this thread so I'm adding mine. It's a strong opinion against. Not everyone will agree. That's okay. I just feel that here is ALWAYS a better alternative to smacking and I find much if the language people use to justify it very curious indeed. It's what many are used to, I think that us the only reason it's tolerated some places to be honest. It's like smoking, used to be normal in the 70s to walk into a bank or office building and people smoked right at their desks or in hospital waiting rooms and restaurants. That would shock us now and disgust us because we know better. I hope some day it will be like that when it comes to hitting our children.

 

[LDC]

But again, with smoking, I wouldn't judge someone who smoked.

I just find on here, that's its rare that people say "you know what if you do xyz then that's ok or if you do 123 then that's ok too". Usually it's "I think this is the right way, that way is utter tosh and you're damaging your child/I can't believe you do that as a parent".

As I said before, I'm not siding either way with people who chose to smack or not (in this instance I'm talking about), it just seems on these debates that no one can just say you know what, do what you think is right for you and your family, it always seems to get into jibes and a bit personal, in my opinion. That's what I listed on my previous answer, just an an example as to how I was disciplined as an example relating to this thread.

I don't think people on here always think about how others read their posts, and I'm not one to take things personally. It's just recently I've been reading through and I'm sure some mum's on here are actually a bit offended by people's opinions or at least the ways in which they put them across (again with my previous list of my own upbringing).

I hope that makes sense
X

 

[Noelle610]

In fairness, I don't think anecdotal evidence ("I was smacked and I'm fine) is really applicable. Obviously not everyone who was smacked as a child will be affected negatively, just as not every pregnant woman who eats deli meat will end up with food poisining. But most recent studies do show it's either ineffective or harmful.

I don't know, this is one case where I do think anecdotal evidence counts. Surely the studies can only really rely on similar evidence, there can hardly be a scientific environment where all other factors can be ruled out. What control was used in the studies?

Food poisoning can be easily traced back to bad meat. Tracing adult problems back is another matter entirely. Obviously child abuse has real effects, but the abuse is in how the child is treated overall, not the means of discipline. I would like to see any study that claims it can prove a link between a swat on the bottom and negative behaviour in the (older) child that wasn't there in the first place. There's just so many contributing factors, the difference in children personalities being one of them, that I would say a good/clued up parent knows if a light smack works or if they are really just hurting their child for no reason.

Surely you're right that it's not a simple cause and effect type thing. And I don't discount all anecdotal evidence in general! That said, I think it's just hard for me personally to hear someone say "I was smacked and I'm fine" and believe it, because we all have different definitions of "fine". Obviously people who were smacked as kids don't usually become serial killers, but it doesn't mean that it hasn't had an effect on them just because it's not extreme. I, for one, was smacked as a child and sometimes I feel very aggressive toward my husband when we're arguing. Is it connected? Maybe, maybe not, but I'm "fine" as in I am very emotionally healthy but I still have "stuff" like everyone else does.

I don't think smacking is abuse with the exception of extreme cases. I don't think people who smack their kids are bad people. But, I just know that most modern psychology shows it to be ineffective in the long run and potentially harmful. Call me idealistic, but I really want Charlie to do the right thing because she knows it's the right thing. Not because she's afraid of being smacked. Obviously I would forcefully pull or shout if she was approaching danger, but in other instances I prefer to use other methods of discipline.

 

[alicecooper]

I can't believe that it can be considered a debate at all whether hitting your kids for any reason is okay at any age. It's not okay to hit your spouse, or any other adult, so why do some people think it's okay to hit a child?

A child is not an adult though so not comparable.

An adult knows themselves whether something they are doing is wrong or dangerous. They don't require guidance or discipline.

There are a great many things that you do to/for a child that would be ridiculous if done to/for an adult.

 

[MrsButterfly]

My personal opinion... At this point, I do not intend to use smacking as a form of discipline for my lo. I was smacked by both of my parents as a child, enough to remember being scared. I don't remember the pain, I remember the fear. I would hate for my child to fear me. I truly believe you can earn respect as a parent without resorting to physical punishment.

I agree with Noelle. Both me and DH were smacked as kids and both of us admit to needing to cool off at times when we argue. I can never know, but I believe us both experiencing smacking has contributed to that.

For me it comes down to, how can I expect my lo to learn it is wrong to hit anyone when I do it to him?

Finally, I don't think an impulsive smack without thinking is good discipline. And I can't ever imagine feeling like I want to smack my child if I'm calm and rational.

I try hard not to judge others but regardless of the circumstances, I don't see any excuse for the parent's behaviour in the OP's post.

 

[Noelle610]

I love the "AHA Parenting" blog and Dr. Markham outlines why spanking is ineffective very well:

2012 study reviewed the previous two decades of research and confirmed that children who are spanked have less gray matter in their brains, and are more likely to exhibit depression, anxiety, drug use, and aggression as they get older. The only positive outcome that's ever been shown from corporal punishment is immediate compliance; however, corporal punishment is associated with less long-term compliance. Corporal punishment has repeatedly been linked with nine other negative outcomes, including increased rates of aggression, delinquency, mental health problems, and problems in relationships with their parents.

Large, peer-reviewed studies repeatedly show that the more children are hit, the more likely they are to hit others, including peers and siblings. As adults, they are more likely to hit their spouses. The more parents spank children for antisocial behavior, the more the antisocial behavior increases. All of the peer reviewed studies being published continue to confirm these findings. A major study at Tulane University, published in Pediatrics, controlled for other factors that have been found to contribute to aggressiveness in children, including the mother's depression, alcohol and drug use, spousal abuse and even whether the mother considered abortion while pregnant with the child. Spanking remained a strong predictor of violent behavior in the child. As five-year-olds, the children who had been spanked were more likely than the non-spanked to be defiant, demand immediate satisfaction of their wants and needs, become frustrated easily, have temper tantrums and lash out physically against other people or animals.

Quite simply, spanking produces WORSE behavior, not better behavior. It also begets more violence, because hitting children teaches them that it is acceptable to hit others who are smaller and weaker. “I'm going to hit you because you hit your sister” is a hypocrisy not lost on children. As every parent knows, kids do what we do, not what we say.

https://www.ahaparenting.com/parenting-tools/positive-discipline/should-I-spank-my-child

Here's the deal. I don't think parents who smack/spank are bad parents. I don't think you're going to scar your children for life. But, I think there's a lot of evidence that spanking doesn't work and can be potentially harmful. Provided this information, I can't understand why anyone would take the risk. For me, it's like most guidelines - like not weaning before 4 months or not letting 4 week old babies CIO.

 

[Feronia]

I can't believe that it can be considered a debate at all whether hitting your kids for any reason is okay at any age. It's not okay to hit your spouse, or any other adult, so why do some people think it's okay to hit a child?

Because there is a major difference to the way you would hit a spouse or adult to how you smack a child! For people to say it is the same is rediculous and I really feel sorry for them if they have experienced in life someone abusing a child. A smack on the hand or bottom is not done to hurt the child, it is to teach cause and effect. A smack to a spouse or adult is fully intended to harm and do damage.

So what if every time you do something wrong, or make a mistake, your husband comes around and smacks you on the arm? I've left dirty diapers on the floor that my husband has stepped in, even on multiple occasions. What if he just smacked me instead? That is NOT alright, but it's the same sort of thing people think is okay to do to a child! The only difference is that the child is still learning a lot about the world and is very impressionable, which I think makes it even worse.

I can't believe that it can be considered a debate at all whether hitting your kids for any reason is okay at any age. It's not okay to hit your spouse, or any other adult, so why do some people think it's okay to hit a child?

A child is not an adult though so not comparable.

An adult knows themselves whether something they are doing is wrong or dangerous. They don't require guidance or discipline.

There are a great many things that you do to/for a child that would be ridiculous if done to/for an adult.

So if a child doesn't know that what they're doing is wrong, then it's okay to hit them? It's not only an ineffective form of discipline, but it's cruel.

I'm all for different parenting styles, but hitting your child is where I draw the line.

 

[kimberleyrobx]

I had my arse rattled and toed as a child if I really misbehaved. I can honestly say it worked! It was always my dad putting me over his knee, as my mum was such a push over and would warn 'just wait to your dad gets hame!' and it definitely shut me up. I feared my dad a lot because I was such a timid, quiet child (not because of spanking) but the spanking definitely made me weary of my father and I usually shit my pants whenever he shouted me down from upstairs, he had just a hulk voice! It definitely stopped me in my tracks, but I do wish it weren't so harsh! Spanking definitely works, but I'm determined not to use it with my own kids xx

 

[fieryphoenix]

Eh, spanking doesn't work anyways! My mom likes telling a story from when I was three, I'd done something naughty and she warned me if I did it again I'd get spanked. I immediately did it again, then bent over for my spanking. that being said, the op sounds like the mom was out of control for sure

 

[Gem0412]

Wow some really powerful for and against a here. I'm still in the against camp, however, even if you do use spanking as disapline, most if not all seem against the multiple spankings that this poor boy got. I would not have spoke up had it been one spank. I wasn't even thinking of saying anything until she stopped then carried on. It kinda came out of my mouth without even thinking iykwim. I think my husband was a bit shocked tbh that I said something.

 

[beanzz]

Wow some really powerful for and against a here. I'm still in the against camp, however, even if you do use spanking as disapline, most if not all seem against the multiple spankings that this poor boy got. I would not have spoke up had it been one spank. I wasn't even thinking of saying anything until she stopped then carried on. It kinda came out of my mouth without even thinking iykwim. I think my husband was a bit shocked tbh that I said something.

Yea, I think it's the fact that she had stopped herself but then went back to hit him again. Even being against spanking I would have been able to ignore one hit because I know there are mums that still do it and that's their choice... But I think I'd have done the same as you if I saw a woman hitting her child as much as this!

 

[DittyByrd]

Wow some really powerful for and against a here. I'm still in the against camp, however, even if you do use spanking as disapline, most if not all seem against the multiple spankings that this poor boy got. I would not have spoke up had it been one spank. I wasn't even thinking of saying anything until she stopped then carried on. It kinda came out of my mouth without even thinking iykwim. I think my husband was a bit shocked tbh that I said something.

It may have been what that mom needed to either snap her out of it or embarrass her enough to stop. Either way you followed your gut and should be proud of that.

I am not a fan of spanking but am not ruling it out in rare cases. I don't feel the ok-with-spanking parents are telling the non-spanking parents they are poor parents but it's certainly coming across the other direction from the anti-spanking group.

 

[sequeena]

I was beaten as a child - that covers everything from smacked to being hit with slippers, belts and thrown into things (like a fridge). My view on smacking is very negative.

There are however been three incidents in Thomas' life where I have become so stressed (he's special needs, I have depression and anxiety) that I have smacked the top of his hand or his bottom. I've hated myself for it and still feel incredible guilt now. It achieved nothing except making him cry and what got me the most was not just hurting him but that he still came to me. I inflicted harm on him and he still wanted comfort from me.

I now make a conscious effort to realise when things are getting too much and either ask for help or if I'm alone make sure Thomas is safe and leave the room for 5 minutes for fresh air and to calm down.

For me smacking is not the answer.

Some of you may think I'm awful, believe me I'm not my biggest fan either.

 

[Feronia]

Sequeena, I don't think you're awful. I know I may come across as very judgmental against people who hit their children, and I fully admit that I am. My DH was abused as a child, everything from smacking, spanking, to being thrown up against the wall, punched, and verbal abuse. I was not -- my mother (who was a single mother and had no help) never laid a hand on me, and I was a very difficult child, too. I even broke out of my room many mornings and went wandering off in traffic and was picked up by a trucker on one occasion. Oh I was disciplined for those sorts of things, but not physically. DH and I both have very different upbringings, but we both strongly agree that hitting our daughter under any circumstance is wrong. I do think that he is especially sensitive about it because of his own upbringing.

However, I do totally understand that mistakes can happen. I understand being stressed out at your child and making a mistake in the spur of the moment. I certainly don't think you're a bad mum for that! What I don't understand is people who make a parenting decision to hit their children for discipline on a regular basis. Yes I'm judgmental about that.

Someone earlier used the example of smacking their daughter's arm so she doesn't run out in traffic to get hit by a car. Those sorts of examples are false dichotomies. There's never a choice between your kid being hit by a car (or bitten by a dog) and hitting them. There are always other non-violent discipline options that allow for learning opportunities.

 

[sequeena]

Thanks I also don't agree with smacks/spanking as a form of discipline. I believe there are much more effective methods that will work long term not just in the moment.

for your OH xx

I do worry that I am turning into my father at times (he was hit by his father and went on to do it to myself and my mother) but I'm getting help. I've had 7 months of counselling but still suffer badly with anxiety so I'm taking steps to combat it.

 

[c.30]

I haven't read the whole thread but I would have had to stop myself from going over to her and giving her a taste of her own medicine. The thing is, if I had done that, she could have me arrested BUT she's allowed to hit her child - that baffles and annoys the hell out of me! Don't wish to offend but the moment you feel your going to strike a child, you've lost control of the situation and your own composure and need to step away.

 

[PepsiChic]

While I dont personally agree with smacking as a type of discipline, and I do not do it with our sons, if that mother has chosen smacking as discipline at home, then she would need to use the same discipline outside of the house as well to be consistent.

And for those who say a 3 year old doesnt know not to run off...yes they do. My son has a developmental delay, hes 3 but has the understanding and speech of a 1 year 7 months old, he known full well not to run or wonder off from my side. He doesnt understand that other people can be dangerous, but he does know hes not suppose to leave me side and if he does he will get put into time out.