so much disappointment from csection threads..makes me sad :(

[LizzieJane]

now I may be biased, but I prefer the phrase 'sunroof baby'

 

[Angelbaby_01]

Crotch flower?! I have no words.........................

I like my c-section mark thank you. I remember that precious day each time I have a look at it in the mirror.

 

[pinkpassion]

I am sad when I think of my emcs, not because I couldn't go naturally but because I had to be under general anesthesia and missed my dd's birth.. I didn't get to meet her until she was 2 hrs old! I will go straight for an elective this next time!!! And my Dr's where absolutely wonderful, gave me every chance at a natural birth even after 26 hrs, it wasn't until they found that my uterus was on the verge of rupture that it became an emergency and all bets where out and they had my baby out in 7 minutes.. my Dr's saved mine and my baby's life and I always put trust in their judgement!!!

 

[SoBlessedMama]

now I may be biased, but I prefer the phrase 'sunroof baby'

^^HA!!!!! Sunroof baby--I love it!

Crotch flower is hysterical--people don't really say that, right?!?!

 

[Dolphinz4]

Aw, I am so happy there ARE women out there who feel the way I do about csections.... to me, the way the baby comes out is not important, its when the baby is out! Thanks to everyone who shared their experiences and thoughts

 

[irish_cob]

Here I typed out a long manifesto on this yesterday after reading the replies in this thread, only to accidently erase it. But anyway...

We mainly have web blogs, forums, and the media (i.e. The Business of Being Born) to thank for demonizing c-sections. The fact is, that there are now certain factions of people who are bowing to the alter of vaginal birth, and women are made to feel that it is the only REAL and AUTHENTIC way to deliver a baby. Complications that arise during vaginal birth are just a "variation of normal" (ummm...this is not true, as there are either normal, or ABNORMAL events that happen during birth, and abnormal events often arise when things aren't going well through the typical escape hatch), and women are made to feel that they are somehow failing their primitive Earth mother-goddess roots if their vaginas aren't involved in the whole deal.

The problem with this mentality, is it is valuing PROCESS (the mode of delivery) over OUTCOME (healthy mother and baby), when the outcome is really what matters in the end. Tell any loss mom that the process mattered, and I'll bet they'd tell you that the outcome mattered far MORE. C-sections are associated with the EEEEVVVVILLLLL hospital-model of birth, and doctors are made out to be greed-sucking butchers that violate women's rights, and perform the dreaded "cascade of interventions" on women against their will. Ummm, how many of us would REALLY feel that way if we didn't have another group of women attempting to indoctrinate pregnant women with these thoughts? Because quite frankly, what I'm hearing about (and experienced for myself) in reality does NOT align with these nightmarish hospital accounts. Sure, having a c-section may eliminate a lot of the "work" from birth, but I suppose that only really matters if you're striving toward some type of accomplishment, rather than having a healthy baby. The "trust your body" ideology is an outright lie, by the way...the NEED for life-saving procedures such as c-sections shoots that one down by proxy.

In a nutshell, what I am saying, is that either way you give birth...YOU'RE GIVING BIRTH. Neither one is a picnic, when you get down to it. When we place more value on the EXPERIENCE, nuance, ambiance, what-have-you of the birth than we do on our ultimate goal, which is healthy mother and baby, we end up with disappointed women, and to me, that is insane! When vaginal birth is treated like a spa vacay, and c-sections are made out to be a trip to the meat market, that's just nuts, really. Both come with challenges. When you deliver vaginally, you work to get your end result. You do play a more passive role during a c-section, as you relinquish control of your body to a surgical team while the delivery is happening...but the recovery is WORK, and it's hard. So, either way, it's an accomplishment.

Sigh.

I agree with a lot of what you say but it's not always that simple. Sometimes mums are not healthy mentally after a traumatic delivery or one which didn't go as envisaged and there is very little acknowledgement of this, with the overriding attitude being that she should be grateful because her baby is here safely, which of course she is, but this doesn't mean that her feelings of sadness and loss and grief aren't valid. She should be able to feel happiness that her baby is here and healthy whilst being able to express her sadness that the birth was a shock or scary or not what she wanted. Birth trauma is real.

The division of women into "camps", either natural birthing women who are sceptical of doctors vs those who want all the medical marvels going is not helpful either. It shouldn't be them vs us. All women matter and whatever you choose is ok. Deriding women who choose to attempt a natural birth as "women who attempt to indoctrinate others" is as wrong as natural birthing women criticising those who have c-sections.

There is evidence that c-sections are overused though, the world health organisation has published studies on it. This can explain the attitude of some of the women you refer to above, who perhaps desperately wanted a natural birth, had a c-section and then later, perhaps during a birth debrief learn that in fact the c-section probably wasn't necessary. There then seems to be an attitude towards them that they shouldn't feel sad and treated poorly, they should just be grateful their baby is here safely. That totally undermines the woman, she is just a host, her feelings don't matter, the baby is healthy, why should she be sad. It is these women I feel sorry for, they are so unsupported in their birth trauma, and can develop PTSD, and this is an area with so little support available.

I've had a c-section and a vbac. I don't care how you birth your babies as long as you feel informed, supported and cared about, that your feelings matter. Maybe you're like the previous poster and just see it as a process. Maybe like me you think it is one of the most important things in your life. We are all different and we should all be supported. I was lucky and even though a c section was not what I wanted, I was not overly traumatised by it. I've met others who were utterly devastated and needed some professional support, not just being told that they had a healthy baby, surely that was what mattered?

Why can't we just support all women to birth, acknowledge that for a lot of women it is more than just a process with a baby at the end of it, it is a highly emotional, hormonal time, and that alongside a healthy baby a mentally healthy happy mum is important too?

 

[pineapple91]

there is nothing worse than a mom who had her baby vaginally thinking I took the easy route by having my babies by c section. There is nothing easy about having major abdominal surgery. I am so grateful that I live in a place that has the capabilities to have c sections, and I have 2 about to be 3 children that I am very grateful that there is a way for them to come safely in to this world. I don't feel cheated out the only part that upsets me is not responding well to epiderals and having to be knocked out for the procedure as I have missed out on hearing there first cry. but i can live with that if it means a healthy baby.

 

[wookie130]

I'm going to go through your post, and address things one-by-one, irish_cob, if you don't mind.

I do not refute the existence of birth trauma. It is definitely a real thing. And that being said, there are women who have been traumatized by vaginal birth, particularly when it leads to permanent fecal incontinence, pelvic floor damage, and reconstructive surgery. You hear far less of THIS than you do of birth trauma from c-sections, but that is NOT because it happens less. There are such things as "healing c-sections"...but due to pressure from natural childbirth advocates, women are far less apt to admit this. And, as far as birth trauma itself goes...yes, it exists, as I said before, but a lot of women have trouble differentiating between "trauma" and "serious disappointment." There IS a difference. I know personally, I would be far more traumatized if something happened to my child (brain injury or death, for example) if I refused having a c-section because I was dead-set on having a vaginal birth. This does happen, and it baffles me.

As far as the us vs. them mentality, I find that on the internet, this is something that DOES happen, and it happens daily. Are there women in the middle? Absolutely! You'd be surprised to learn that I am one of them, really. I am not saying that every woman who wants to deliver vaginally is a natural childbirth advocate. That is FAR from the truth. But, there are definitely two sides of the fence (particularly in the blogosphere, and other corners of the web)...and that basically comes down to "crunchy mamas" who advocate natural birthing practices vs. medical professionals. And for those women who turn to various "resources" on the web for information on birth, and what to expect are given some very clear messages...natural birth = good, medicalized birth = evil. This is the truth, and while I also find it unhelpful, this is what is happening.

The WHO has since retracted their statements on c-sections. You need to go back and read their updated c-section stance. They have since retracted the statement they made about there being an ideal "c-section" rate, as they have now acknowledged that that statement made no sense to begin with...and that an ideal "rate" would be whatever rate needed to decrease perinatal infant and maternal mortality. There is no way to surmise an ideal c-section "rate", since c-sections are done largely as preventative medicine, and performed on an individual basis, based on a variety of different factors and reasons. And I think they've also realized that women are entitled to WHATEVER reasons they may have for elective c-sections, in particular. Please check it out. The ol' "ideal c-section rate" concept is obsolete, even by the WHO's standards.

To me, my mode of delivery was not the star of the show. My beautiful daughter (and son-to-be) are the limelight, truly. I do support women having a choice, and I think that most medical professionals do support a woman's choice to have a say in what happens with her body...but, these choices need to happen under something crucial, referred to as INFORMED CONSENT. This means that a woman can make whatever decision she wants to, but she needs to be fully aware of the REAL EVIDENCE, FACTS, and genuine risks that exist with each decision. And thanks to the web, women are "educating themselves" with a lot of pseudoscience by laypeople who have an agenda that are not fact or real evidence-based. Hey, if you want to give birth in a tub of piranhas while a monk blesses the water with unicorn dust, far be it from me to stop you. But, this needs to come with INFORMED CONSENT that what you're doing carries the risks of x, y, and z. And if after you've learned of x, y, and z, you want to proceed, then it is on YOUR HEAD if x, y, and z indeed happen during your blessed unicorn dust piranha water birth.

Providing support to women on birth choices is something that is necessary. But, women are being fed a lot of phooey out there, and there are organizations, groups, blogs, and whatnot that exist that are providing a ton of misinformation, and sadly, I see lots of women taking the bait. I continually read of disappointment and trauma related to c-sections. Is this not because some other "sources" are crowing that vaginal birth is the "only" way to give birth, or that there baby is being "ripped out of" their bodies, and that their bodies "are not a lemon", and etc., etc., etc. THAT is indoctrination, pure and simple. It is based on rhetoric, not reality.

 

[Menelly]

now I may be biased, but I prefer the phrase 'sunroof baby'

^^HA!!!!! Sunroof baby--I love it!

Crotch flower is hysterical--people don't really say that, right?!?!

I've heard "crotchfruit" before, so flower doesn't surprise me.

 

[wookie130]

I just heard of "crotchfruit" the other day, and I nearly choked on my toast, seriously.

 

[amyleigh89]

Crotchfruit... I love that.

My brothers and I always joked that we were lucky to come out the sunroof and not have our faces squashed up against our Mum's flaps.

When I had DD though I went into counselling and later diagnosed with PTSD but for the first few weeks I felt like such a failure for not being able to do "the one thing women are made to do". This wasn't helped by friends boasting about their drug free all natural labours like we should bow down and kiss the ground before them whilst anyone else was less womanly and a worse mother.

There is no competition. The outcome is the same and women shouldn't be made to feel any less amazing just because they got there a different way.

We are great and should be proud - whichever path we choose, or is given to us.

Xx

 

[minties]

After 2 c-sections, I tend to agree with the "outcome and not the process" idea. Really, giving birth isn't the only thing that validates me as a woman. I am a million more things than my ability, or lack of, to vaginally birth children.

Yeah. I dreamed about giving birth naturally and always planned it, but when it comes down to it, I've got amazing beautiful children and that is what matters. I don't want to spend more time regretting their mode of arrival than enjoying them being here.

I'm no less a woman for having had a c-section, than an IVF mum for having had to have medical help to get pregnant. It doesn't make her any less pregnant, or any less of a woman.

Also, after spending 8 years TTC, you really give way less of a fuck how your kids arrive, you are just glad you have them.

Plus, cute baby heads that aren't cones...you know the date they are going to arrive, and you get pampered in bed by nurses and midwives for a few days. Yay!