spoiled and lazy

[Sam Pearson]

Sam, your advice is great if you have done it for as long as the child remembers. .

I agree. At your daughter's age it would me a matter of getting her on board and negotiating with her. For me the first step would be seeing how much you can get her to agree that 1. it's nicer to have a clean environment and that is somethign she actually wants for herself 2. it's reasonable for somebody of any age to contribute and at her age she would be on par with other kids her age to be doing a great deal of her own mess and also contributing to the main household chores.

Sometimes my kids tell me they are happy to have a pig sty of a room but I counter with the fact that this is my house and it's reasonable for me to want to live in a reasonable clean/tidy environment and this goes double for their room since it's the first thing you see when you walk in the house.

Sometimes they say "that's what doors are for, I'll keep the door closed when people visit" but I counter with the fact that they never do remember to keep the door closed and that I go in that room to help them clean, take their belonging in, to hop into bed with the youngest to help her fall to sleep and it's unreasonable to expect me to be tripping over stuff.

I am also honest and point out that while I'm not houseproud to the point of it having to be perfect I feel ashamed if the house is so bad that I feel I have to close doors to hide mess and I think it's unreasonable, when keeping it relatively neat is totally doable, that I should have to feel ashamed. After all I don't wear clothes or act in a way that makes them ashamed and therefore it's reasonable to request that they do the same.

The other thing I remind them is that if they don't contribute enough they are basically lumping me with all of the work. This is unfair but also means I have less time and energy to do fun things with them like take them to the pool or movies.

It's the same when they don't turn lights off or otherwise waste money, I point out how this affects them in that we have less money to do fun things like movies and means less presents at birthdays etc.

They always do better when I help them a bit even if it's just pointing out strategies. They don't need me to actually do it but they do appreciate me being around and keeping them on track. I might say designate an area to be cleaned e.g. do everything from the bed to the door, then have a rest, then do everything on top of the drawers, then have a rest etc. and that way I am breaking it down into smaller zones. Sometimes a whole room can seem too big to tackle.

Also, when my kids are getting used to a new job or becoming acquainted with an old job they have let lapse I don't expect too much at once. I noticed recently my kids had started leaving their dirty dishes in the loungeroom and my eldest has stopped washing up at all - partly my fault for doing it at times she isn't home. So I started working on that. Only once they got in the habit of bringing the dishes back to the kitchen did I start to work on them rinsing and stacking them. They are currently doing this so the next step is taking turns with my eldest in washing up. OH works away but he takes turns, too, when home.

I find if I take turns with them that works better than expecting one child to fully be responsible for an entire job. E.g. my 8yo and I take turns cleaning the bathroom, my almost 12yo and I are meant to take turns washing up (and we are working towards that happening again).

My girls love music and cranking the radio loud really helps them to feel like it's not such a drag to clean.

I'll also allocate a legnth of time to clean before a break e.g. I might say "see how much you can get done in 10 minutes then lets have a hot chocolate" and that seems less oppresive to them than "clean the entire room". Kids get overwhelmed easily and then tend to give up if the job seems insurmountable.

I have found that having less stuff helps immensely so we periodically have a chuck out of clothes and toys. Of course they only set about bringing more items in to the house but this is another way I sell them on chucking stuff out. If they sort through and throw out the stuff that they no longer wear that makes room for new clothes something they are always keen on.

Sometimes rather than a full clean out I'll allocate a number of things to be tossed out e.g. I'll say let's all find 23 items we can throw away or give away and I do this, too.

Another thing I do to help them clear the house of their mess, especially handy if visitors are due, is have a basket for each of them. When their things have spread about the house too much, and we homeschool so this is often, rather than get them to immediately put everything away as a first step I ask them to go through the house with their basket and fill it with everything that is theirs that should be in their room or school room. Once the basket is filled they have a break but later I get them to put the stuff in the basket away. In this way at least the house is neater for the visitors even if the belongings aren't fully put away.

For bringing in the laundry, which they do on theri own as I do the washing and hanging out, I have a strategy to avoid any one person having to sort. We each have a small basket allocated to eacdh family member and one for the linen. The clothes come off the line directly into each person's basket which they take to their room to put away. We don't fold and only iron on special occassions.

To be honest I probably spend almost as much time getting the kid to effectivley do their chores as it would take me to actually do it all for them but I'm not willing to go there.

For what ti's worth my eldest, who was the worst with contributing to the house, now flats with his girlfriend and he keeps a tight ship. I was nervous to visit the first time but so impressed. I asked his girlfriend if he had mopped and cleaned especially for our visit but she said he keeps on top of it all the time and he isn't leaving it all for her so while I often felt I was fighting a losing and constant battle it seems I did okay in that regard.

I hope some of the above might be helpful. I ahte to see Mums being a slave to the house while the kids bludge. I'm a Libran so fairness is important to me.

Sam

 

[ablacketer]

thank you Sam. thats so much better as it applies more directly to what Im dealing with. "fairness" and "what you want to contribute" just plain doesnt work here.

I already have the basket per person, I only fold mine and the baby's stuff. both hubby and daughter are expected to bring in their wash and sort it into the proper bins for washing. I still have to push to get the baskets to the room (both hubby and daughter try to live out of the basket and my laundry is actually a hallway to our den).

i will try some of the other ideas you shared.

 

[TattiesMum]

I've raised 3 teens to adulthood ... all 3 are responsible, employed, self supporting and decent citizens and I think Sam's advice is spot on

14 is a difficult age ... she's not lazy or spoiled - she's just driven by hormones, confused a lot of the time and striving to find her feet in an adult world and find some independence.

Yes - it's challenging as a parent - and frustrating and awful sometimes ... but they have to go through this in order to come out the other side - and just as you couldn't force a toddler through the terrible twos and threes, you can't fast forward a teenager through the hormones

So first off I would try making her allowance dependent on the jobs she completes rather than punishing - carrot instead of stick (stick just makes teens even more resentful).

I did still use punishments, but they were reserved for more serious transgressions... for chores payment not only works best but it also teaches them that money only comes in direct exchange for time/labour.

Personally I wouldn't worry about her not going out ... every child is different and she may just not enjoy socialising (or maybe is being bullied or feels like the odd one out - teenage girls can be positively foul to each other ? ) I would never have forced my teens to take part in a sport or social event (apart from family ones lol) ... that, to me, is controlling them too much.

 

[Sam Pearson]

You're welcome )

(both hubby and daughter try to live out of the basket and my laundry is actually a hallway to our den).

Umm, I'm frequently guilty of that myself. I'm doing it right now but at least the washing basked is next to my bed not in a thoroughfare. While it's true that if you wait long enough you wear everything in the basket and avoid having to put anything away ), I really should rethink what I am modelling here. Thanks for the reminder.

We stopped doing chores for money because after paypday they were slack for a few days until they started to look to the next week's pocket money. So we give them the money without conditions and it's just their conscious prodding them to contribute. While not perfect it seems to be working better for us.

However, the pocket (and birthday and tooth fairy) money does serve my purposes in that my middle two who get pocket money are too young to get to the store alone so I will ask them to pick up their mess before taking them to the shop where they can spend their money.

 

[judge12]

I am 22 years old but can remember being a teenager at home and I can tell you how your daughter is acting is very normal! My parents have 4 kids (including me) they tried to make us do housework and we did sometimes wash dishes and tidy our rooms but we did not do much and it did build resentment on their part on how we acted.

I moved out of home and am in my own flat, am I still lazy? no way, I clean my flat and keep it nice and clean. I followed the example of my mum, dad and how they kept a clean house. It is always different when it's your own house.

With my child, I try get her do some housework from an early age and maybe that make her more helpful around the house but once they hit those teen years...nightmare but she won't always be like that!

 

[angiepie]

she now has 2 responsibilites.<SNIP>she is supposed to potty our two boxers, water and feed them and do the dishes.

I wonder did your daughter ask to have the dogs? And did she agree to help care for them at the time they were acquired? When she is an adult and independent and if she chooses to get pets she will be responsible for them entirely but in this situation I think it's unreasonable to demand that she care for them.

We have 5 pets. One cat and one dog are my responsibility because I was the one who made the decision to bring them in to our home. So while we all care for them somewhat I am ultimately responsible for their health and wellbeing and cleaning up after their vomit and poo. My youngest daughter asked for a cat for her 4th birthday - she cares for that cat entirely aside from paying the expense and OH and I will always give the cat a tablet if needed because that's a two person job and really hard. My two girls also have a mice each that they asked for and paid for and they are entirely responsible for those animals. I will remind them if needed to clean out the cage or check their food but I don't do it for them.

Did your daughter agree to take on the washing up and cleaning the kitchen as her sole responsibility? If not again I feel it's unreasonable to make it her job and hers alone. You all make mess in the kitchen so what I feel is reasonable, unless one famliy member puts their hand up for that job, is that you take turns.

My kids are expected to contribute their fair share. That means we all spend the same amount of time cleaning although naturally the younger ones will take more time to do jobs and can't do all jobs yet. They know that I am not a housewife, I don't like housework. When they don't pull their weight we never punish them but we talk about why they aren't helping out and what we can do to support them do more - maybe change the jobs they are to do or the times they are to do them or perhaps we might decide to do a job together e.g. cleaning the bathroom was overwhelming my youngest so now we do that together and in return she helps me sort out my workspace. She finds it hard to change her sheets so I help her and in return she helps me change my sheets on the big bed. We try to work out what jobs they can happily do that add up to their fair share rather than allocate jobs for them. I persnoally hate doing floors so my OH does them but he never cleans out the fridge so I do that myself.

I point out to our kids that we are a bunch of people living together and it's not fair for any one person to do more than their share. I also point out that I am doing many jobs they don't like and that in return all I ask is that they do their fair share of work. They agree this is fair. They also agree that they want the house to be fairly clean and tidy, not perfect but to a standard that we can all function in.

When they let something that they agree to take on lapses I say, "okay, I can see you are struggling to get that chore done so I will do that for you" then I ask them what they would like to do instead. If they say "nothing" then we get back to the discussion about being fair and respecting every family member and not expecting any one person to be a slave for the rest.

My kids do a lot. Almost as much as me. But I never make them do it and I never choose what they do (aside form their own mess which is their own responsibility).

One day my 9yo announced that she was over housework and was going on strike. I said "okay, but if you choose to do that it means the rest of us will have to do your share of housework for you which won't be fair." She stopped doing anything around the house. Her siblings were naturally not impressed that they had to pick up the slack. I explained to them that for whatever reason, their sister was finding it hard to contribute and that we would simply do her jobs for her until she could contribute again and that I was certain she would pitch in again given time. I explained that if, for whatever reason, they felt they couldn't contribute, we would do the same for them. They still complained. I explained that if they didn't help me do their sister's share they would be leaving me to do all the housework on my own. So they agreed to share the load without her help. We didn't hassle her or punish her. We carried on happily doing the house. She had to lift her feet while we swept, she saw us doing the washing up together, laughing and enjoying the togetherness, she saw me thank her siblings for doing jobs and compliment them on doing them well. After a whole week of watching us work around her she quietly started to chip in and hasn't stopped contributing since (she is almost 12yo now). Actually, she is my most helpful chlid and does the biggest share of work. If we had fought with her and tried to bully her into doing jobs we might still be having problems over it now. At the end of the day all we lost was a week of her help. No biggie but she learned that she actually does want to help and while it was great not having to do chores it didn't feel great being the one not contributing.

she forgets to feed them, even though I have told her to feed them at 4pm every day.

When my dd doesn't feed her cat I don't feed it but casually say "Bean is hungry" and leave it at that. If she still doesn't do it I'll say "Poor Bean must be really hungry now" but I don't feed her cat for her. Naturally, because she loves her cat, she will eventually feed her. Do you think your dd would feed the dogs if you did that? Just not fed them and let her see that without her helping them get to food they are left hungry? Would she be that insentive to not feed the dogs when you remind her and point out they are hungry? I don't think many kids, knowing nobody else will feed them, would leave an animal hungry. If ever my kids can't feed their pets for some reason, say a sleep over, they ask me if I will do it and of course I do.

and thats another thing. we had to MAKE her try out for dance team last year <SNIP>(We MADE her choose a physical activity, she chose gymnastics <S I cant get her to do ANY thing else.

Why do you have to force her to do these things? I have one naturally sedintary child. When we are standing she is sitting, when we sit to watch tv she lies down. She loves to sleep in and the hammock is often where I'll find her. But I realise that forcing her to do things would take all the enjoyment out of it and she would be fighting me to avoid doing those things. I"m not interested in creating a power struggle. So instead I try to find things she wants to do. It's hard e.g. we got her a bike which she never rides.

What I have worked out is that she loves to socialise best of all. When she was not doing any sport or dance in an attempt to get her moving I invited her to walk the dog with me but she would rather stay at home and watch tv. So I got all the other kids and their neighbourhood friends to all get together on an afternoon dog walk That made walking the dog a social event and suddenly she was keen to come along.

We encourage her to try things but don't force her or make her continue if she's not having fun. After all if I take a dance class that I don't enjoy I don't make myself keep going. We got a Wii and so long as I do it with her she loves to join in so it's great for both of us. I feel that if I force her to do physical stuff it will put her off even more but if I can show her how she can have fun that will be the most positive thing. We cold punish her but that would only affect our relationship and then I'd have less chance of her wanting to do physical things with me becasue she will be cross with me and not wanting to share activities.

My kids do get an allowance but that is independent of any jobs or activities. We don't punish them but try to work with them. When we are at a loss as to how to help them we talk to them about that and ask them what ideas they have. Same when they are bickering and I can't sort it out I sit them down and help them work out their own strategies or I ask them what they think I could do that will help the situation. When kids are involved in the solutin they are usually more willing to stick to the agreement.

I have to 100% agree with everything Sam says. What great advice. Perhaps a gentle approach will help you to succeed in getting through to her. I speak from experience [when I was 14] when I say nagging/punishment is only so effective. In fact, for me, it was completely ineffective. So maybe these suggestions will work. I also like Jasmak's suggestion.

To Sam- sounds like your family live in such peace! You seem like a great, in-tune mother.

 

[MommaAlexis]

Maybe instead of expecting her to feed the dogs, just let her know her getting her own pet is dependant on how well she takes care of the house pets (which I'm sure she knows) and leave it to her to decide how bad she wants a pet. And still assign two chores but give her the choice as to which they are. To be honest, if someone pushes me to do something, even if it's something I want to do, I don't want to do it anymore. So if you write down a list of chores and she can choose two a week, depending on her mood, and write down the dog's schedules if she doesn't know them, she can have feeding them as an option. She knows she has to step up to the house pet responsibilties to get her own, but you shouldn't have to force her to be a good pet owner. Either she'll learn or she doesn't get a pet. As long as she lets you know that she'll be feeding them instead. I moved out of my parents house at fifteen, so have a little bit of a different view then most my age!

 

[ClairHawkins]

I agree with sam, I have six children three of them are teenagers what works for us is family meetings. I can't make them do anything they don't want to do but perhaps a disscusion on how frustrated you are might help. Perhaps you could help her clean her room have a girly chat??? My daughter loves loud music whilst cleaning so we have a dance too I have always found that making an effort to keep that comunication going helps all of us. I think it is in all of our nature to want to please others its just finding what works for both of you! Good luck x

 

[almostXmagic]

this kind of follows along with what he are studying in my child guidance class. when punishing a child you want to make sure the punishment goes hand in hand with the "crime". if she is neglecting doing the dishes then something along the line of "if you dont do the dishes then dont expect to have dishes to eat off of as they will stay dirty until you wash them." if she doesnt let the dogs out and they potty in the house then she is responsible for cleaning it up. another thing that could really help is sit down with her and let her be involved in picking her chores and/or the punishment for not following through. ask her what she thinks her punishment should be if she does not follow through on the chores, discuss it as a family and come to an agreement. if she feels like she has a say and is being heard then she will be more likely to comply. (im sorry if this doesnt make sense, its very late )

 

[Sam Pearson]

The problem with punishments is that they just don't work.

Alfie Kohn talks a lot about this in his book Punished by Rewards and you can read a summary here: https://www.alfiekohn.org/teaching/pdf/Punished by Rewards.pdf

Our children never receive punishments and they aren't running amok...the opposite actually. They rarely make the same mistake twice and when we negotiate things like housework they almost always happily stick to the agreement. Aside from the occassional bickering over silly things like whose turn it is in the front seat of the car or who had the longer turn on the computer they get along with each other. They get along with all of their friends. They are quite outspoken but they aren't disrespectful.

It's just not necessary to punish children in order to get good behaviour out of them and there's a lot of negatives that happen when we punish kids. Mainly that they learn not to do negative things in order to avoid punishment rather than through developing a healthy social attitude where the drive to do the right thing occurs internally not through a disire to achieve a reward or avoid punishment.

I find communication to be the key to our household runnings smoothly and punishing my kids interferes with open communication.

I've been told so many times by parents that they must punish their kids or they misbehave and don't listen to them but what I notice is that their kids still misbehave and re disrepsectful towards their parents so clearly the punishment system isn't working and as it's so draining and unpleasant for everybody it inhibits open communication.