stealing and lying

[GillandJamie]

Hi all

I'm a mum of 4 girls soon to have a little boy. My oldest is 9 years old and since she was 4 years old we have had a problem with her stealing and lying. I have tried everything. Reward charts, treats, grounding, banning from things, losing privileges etc etc. Nothing works and it is just getting worse. I do my weekly food shop and buy the children snacks etc for school and through the weekend. My 3 other children are lucky if they see any of it she eats it ALL. We have locked the kitchen door, she breaks in. My children get a birthday cake she will gouge her dirty hands through it to eat bits of it (every time there is a birthday this happens.) My husband just had his birthday and I bought him a very special expensive personalised cake. I have just seen that she has gouged her fingers through all the icing and outer edge of the cake. If I don't buy treats etc, she will steal loaves of bread, all the milk cold meat fruit etc. Last week she stole a whole jar of lemon curd and ate it with her fingers. She breaks everything she is bought for birthdays and Christmas. She breaks all her sisters things then lies and said she didn't do it. She ran away on Sunday coz she got into trouble for stealing again and she ran to a friends house and told them that I had kicked her out. We were out looking for her for 3 and a half hours and just as I called the police to find her the friends mum pulled up outside to bring her home. She draws all over my walls and furniture, breaks all my chest of drawers and wardrobes. She took the plastic stoppers off the top of her metal bunk bed frame and peed down the holes coz she couldn't be bothered to go to the toilet. These are just a small fractions of the things she does. She denies all of them unless u grill her about it for hours. I hope u don't think I'm being petty. These things don't just happen once every now and then it's constant, multiple times a day. I can't take anymore, I feel nothing but anger and resentment coz all I do is tell her off. No consequence will make her stop she just puts on this sad hard done by face and makes its out like I'm being unreasonable. I can't cope with this anymore and I don't know what to do. Please help xxx

 

[KayBea]

i think you need to find out why shes doing it.. did something big happen when it started? is it an attention thing? xx

 

[messica]

I hate to ask this, but did something traumatic happen to her at the age of four when all this started?

The behaviors you're describing sound a lot of like those children who have really been seriously hurt mentally or physically.


If I were you I'd have her shadow you, meaning stick right next to you at all times so she doesn't have the opportunity to "steal" food. I'd set her up with her own drawer of foods she can have access to 24/7 and set up therapy for her asap. She is quite clearly screaming for help and has been for some time. You talk strongly about her having "dirty hands" and reference her fingers several times. It sounds like there is a lot of misplaced pent up anger and resentment towards her coming from your end at this point, I'd consider getting help for yourself as well to help you work through those feelings of disgust with her. She's undoubtedly picking up on your feelings about her and that's only going to make things worse.

Jmo - but a 9 year old child eating bread, milk and fruit shouldn't be considered as "stealing" that food. I do hope you'll reconsider that view. It should be accessible to her in her own home. At 9 years old she's growing at a furious rate and needs to eat and snack often. I understand you don't want her ruining things like cakes, but is there something you can do to prevent that as you're obviously aware it's a serious distraction for her? Maybe wait to pick up the cake until the day of the party, or if that's not an option drop the cake off at someone else's house until then?


Beyond that, I'm curious what you guys do for fun, and to bond as mother daughter? What sort of things do you enjoy doing together that brings happiness and joy into both of your lives?

 

[moomin_troll]

I think it might be a good idea to take her to the doctors, just to cover all bases as a lot of the things she does I grew up with my brother doing and I look back and hate a lot of my childhood because of the way he acted, treated us and my mum always focusing on him and telling him off. He's autistic and would act out a lot due to frustration.

 

[Rachel_C]

If you haven't already I would definitely take her to the GP just for a check up and also see if you can get her some kind of help/support - some for you too. It sounds like a horrible thing for all of you to live with - she can't be happy doing things like that and then getting told off for it any more than you're happy that she's doing it.

I do agree that stealing bog standard food like milk and bread shouldn't be seen as stealing, although I know every house has different rules about what food you can take! Perhaps you could set out certain foods and drinks that are always going to be there and everybody can help themselves too. Fruit and veg, rice cakes etc plus cold water.

How much time is she spending unaccompanied? I'd stop that for now - have her in the same room as you whenever you can. How is her behaviour at school too? Have you spoken to her teachers?

Have you tried ignoring the bad stuff? It sounds like stupid Super Nanny advice but she's getting loads of attention for doing all this - how much attention does she get that is positive? If it started when she was 4, perhaps she just had a really tough year as a 4 year old - I know my 4 year old is a nightmare a lot of the time and nothing traumatic has happened to her. If she somehow got stuck in a loop of doing 'naughty' things and basking in the attention for it, she might just never have realised/been able to realise that she can get more attention, more fun attention, for being good.

 

[JASMAK]

She needs a doctor. I think these behaviours will only get worse and she will suffer greatly. I wouldn't call it 'stealing' either...sounds criminal and she is a child. She has self control issues.

 

[GillandJamie]

Hi all and thanks for the replies. I have taken her to the docs in the last few days and she is being referred to a neuro phsycologist ( i didnt mention before she has epilepsy, i thought i had) We have had her first counselling session which seemed to go well, on Friday, but then the weekend ended in a massive incident. With regards to the bread milk and fruit "stealing" she is more than welcome to help herself to these things when she is hungry and she knows this, my issue with that is she will not just have 1 sandwich or 1 drink of milk etc she will eat a whole loaf of bread, a whole packet of meat, a whole carton of milk etc. They all have access to healthy snacks. Nothing happened to her when she was 4, the only thing I can think of is she was an only child until then, when her little sister was born? Could this be an issue.

You are right I do have a lot of built up anger and resentment because I have tried so hard for years now and nothing is working it just gets me so down. I feel like such a bad mother that I cant help her.The reason I mention about her fingers all the time is because she will eat everything with her hands, rather than getting some cutlery etc, she just scoops at things with her hands, she was always such a clean child that hated having a dirty face and fingers. I am also going to a counsellor to try and help me deal with her behaviour better and stop being so angry about it.

We have tried ignoring the bad things and just getting on with it, all that happens is the behaviour gets so bad that we cant possibly ignore it. I do think its an attention thing, but even if we give her positive attention, the behaviour only gets worse again. We try to no leave her without one of us being in the room at all times. It become harder when she is sneaking up in the middle of the night to take things. I am normally a very light sleeper but she has become good at "sneaking" out of her room without letting the door click shut etc. I do normally catch her in the act of taking some food or hiding the evidence, but not every time.

At school she is mostly well behaved and she is very intelligent and a very happy approachable girl with lots of friends. I do worry that her behaviour will turn into "proper stealing" ie from classmates, teachers etc and this is when it will become a much bigger issue. I am so worried for her, I am sorry if I sound harsh, I am just out of ideas and dont know where to go. I am so hopeful that the counselling will help her turn a corner and realise that what she is doing is wrong. Tbh its not the food taking that bothers me so much its the lying about everything.
Thanks for all your replies