Summer babies- holding back school

[leelee]

I am in Ireland. I have decided to hold my DS back and he will be 5.5 starting school. I spent ages deliberating about it. Intellectually he would be ready this Sept but emotionally he wouldn't.

Although he is extrovert he is a sensitive soul and doesn't stand up for himself at all. Someone gave me advice that I thought was brilliant. They said base your decision on how you feel they will cope in the school yard, not in the classroom. DS defo would not be able for the schoolyard right now.

I am so so happy with my decision, but it took months of soul searching. I am so grateful I have the choice.

 

[morri]

I started school at 7 yearsold, and i was a week frm cutoff date here, so it was decided that i go the next year. our class was a mix of 6 and 7 year olds. btw by the time they are ten they have the same knowledge as kids that go to school as early as in the uk , only that they only be in year 4 at that age, but secondary school starts with y5 in mst provinces here.

kids go to kindergarten which s voluntary from age 3 and they dont do academics there.

Lo will be 6 3/4 by the time shell go.

 

[JJKCB]

I didnt but I will say from my experiance of DS school:

there is very little difference in my DS eyes between nursery and reception as it very slowly introduces them to structure and teaches them very basic skills in a fun way and it would seem by year one they will be thrown in at the deep end if they havnt slowly learned... they may also struggle to make friends after peer groups have started to form

the developmental delays are well spread across reception, some children can barely count to 5 and others are doing simpler times tables already but the teachers are very good a dealing with that, its not a case of keep up or be left behind anymore

 

[tommyg]

I'm in Scotland DS is only 11 days before the cut off. I'm trying to decide if he'd better as the oldest or youngest in the class.
Would it all be too much for him at 4 or would he be bored going into school at 5.

Even into high school where is he most likely to be happiest. And do best? Are younger kids more likely to be lead astray?

Re the comments on them being able to leave school with out sitting exams because they'd be above compulsory school age. If the child is of the mind set that they want to leave before getting qualifications then its unlikely that they'd study for exams even if they were forced to sit them.

 

[JJKCB]

I'm in Scotland DS is only 11 days before the cut off. I'm trying to decide if he'd better as the oldest or youngest in the class.
Would it all be too much for him at 4 or would he be bored going into school at 5.

Even into high school where is he most likely to be happiest. And do best? Are younger kids more likely to be lead astray?

Re the comments on them being able to leave school with out sitting exams because they'd be above compulsory school age. If the child is of the mind set that they want to leave before getting qualifications then its unlikely that they'd study for exams even if they were forced to sit them.

its not a great attitude but even if they dont study but sit at least they get something, and even without studying you can pull Cs or Ds in most subjects...

1 C, 4 Ds an E and an 2 F for example are better than 0 qualifications as colleges often look for qualifications even for most vocational courses nowadays and most jobs require at least English and maths

plus if the kid is naturally talented/academic they could pull the standard 5 C required to class as a pass with relative ease

 

[leelee]

I'm in Scotland DS is only 11 days before the cut off. I'm trying to decide if he'd better as the oldest or youngest in the class.
Would it all be too much for him at 4 or would he be bored going into school at 5.

Even into high school where is he most likely to be happiest. And do best? Are younger kids more likely to be lead astray?

Re the comments on them being able to leave school with out sitting exams because they'd be above compulsory school age. If the child is of the mind set that they want to leave before getting qualifications then its unlikely that they'd study for exams even if they were forced to sit them.

I think it depends on the child themselves. DS will go at 5.5 instead of 4.5 because I would prefer him to be one of the oldest. He is quite timid and his pre-school teacher said it is only now that he is starting to stand up for himself. I think another year will make a huge difference to his confidence levels.

 

[tommyg]

I was googling this afternoon and came across a report that was produced. In Norway after following kids years after they left school, the babies of the year generally did better after leaving school than the older kids. The theroy being the younger kids are pushed all the way through school where the older ones have an easy time in school and struggle when they hit the point that they need to work to get results.

 

[JASMAK]

I think its too young, but I think school in general starts too early in the uk.

 

[tommyg]

I totally agree that school starts too young in the UK.
Unfortunately we have what we've got and no politician's going to change it, education is too mixed up with childcare, the standards aren't as good as it should be and the only way people can see to change it is to push kids into education at 3 which also comes under the disguise of "free childcare".

It would be an act of major bravery for some body to decide to scrap education (free childcare) for 3 year olds. And turn the first year of school into informal voluntary preschool.

 

[morri]

We have free and low cost childcare here but yea politics is a hassle to channge sth,... but it is still not academical, you know kindergarten voluntary from 3 to6

 

[tommyg]

We have free and low cost childcare here but yea politics is a hassle to channge sth,... but it is still not academical, you know kindergarten voluntary from 3 to6

What sort of stuff do your children do in kindergarten?
Do they start learning letters, numbers and shapes?

In the UK voluntary pre-school starts at 3, with compulsory school at 5. But many kids are only just 4 when they start because of the cut off dates.
Scotland the youngest are 4.5, England just 4.

 

[morri]

They learn about letters and numbers in primary school. (1st year)
Kindergarten is free play and exploration with kids aged 3-6

i am going to send my lo to a forestkindergarten where they stay outdoors all year round.

 

[tommyg]

So your kids aren't even thinking about letters and numbers until the age of 6?

The uk starts letters and numbers as soon as the kids start preschool at 3. I really can't understand why the UK push kids so much with letters and numbers.

 

[morri]

If they do they do it in a play orientated matter= counting toys and most 6 yos can write their name or recognise it but that is all.
Theres no schedule apart from lunch or afternoon naps/quiet time.

 

[hattiehippo]

So your kids aren't even thinking about letters and numbers until the age of 6?

The uk starts letters and numbers as soon as the kids start preschool at 3. I really can't understand why the UK push kids so much with letters and numbers.

I know! It's completely mad tbh. Some kids are ready but lots aren't when so little and the evidence shows that children who start reading/writing at 7 in countries like Germany have completely caught up with UK kids by 10-11. There is no actual benefit to starting reading and writing so young IMO and if anything it can cause kids who aren't ready at 4 to lack confidence and struggle.

Unfortunately it's very much part of the UK culture to start school very early and a belief that academic work has to start early or we'll be left behind.

The school my son is going to does at least do a forest school morning once a week and they go out in all weathers with saws and hammers and go pond dipping but this is still quite unusual in local schools.

 

[mandarhino]

Be careful about starting kids in January / April as they'll miss out on the phonics work they do in the first couple of terms and may struggle to catch up. This may knock their confidence. Reception is still very much play based and is a gentle introduction to learning.

Also you may well be lucky and your child will be in a young class. My daughter's class is over 1/3 summer born (June-August). Pretty sure about 70% of kids in her class were born between March-August. There were only 3 kids born between September to December. Her school is single form entry so it was just coincidence.

 

[tommyg]

Yes I've heard that before that other countries who don't push letters etc until they are older the kids have caught up and surpassed the UK kids by the age of 11. In the same week as watching a documentary about Finnish vs English system. I also heard a piano teacher on the radio mention she doesn't teach 5 year olds for the same reason "what takes a 5 year old 3 years to learn, an 8 year old will pick up in a few months"

In Scotland deferring means deferring school for a complete year, not allowed to start them in the middle of the school year. Scotland has had a single intake for at least 35 years so had plenty of time to iron out the problems in the system, hence the flex in allowing parents to defer, as opposed to England who are only just moving to a single intake.

 

[Tasha]

Not sure that's right Tommy, nursery intakes have had multiple intakes through the year in some places (not here since I was a small girl and I am 29 now) but school (reception) has always been one in take where I am.

 

[tommyg]

Not sure that's right Tommy, nursery intakes have had multiple intakes through the year in some places (not here since I was a small girl and I am 29 now) but school (reception) has always been one in take where I am.

Sorry if I got that wrong.

The way I've been reading stuff to do with the English system I've been picking it up that they were only just moving to a single intake, more being pushed by the schools and local authorities rather than the law, ie the legal wording is something along the line of "children must start school the term before they turn 5". Hence legally they can start school mid year. But if schools and LA's have been changed for that long why the heck has the law not caught up with it?

Scotland it is if your child turns 5 before 28/29 of February they start school be preceding August, with various amendments allowing parents to defer.

 

[mandarhino]

My understanding of the change in England is that the younger kids used to be required to start in January so they missed out on a couple of months of schooling compared to their older peers. So were disadvantaged by being youngest in their year group + had a few months less school.

What's changed is all kids now have the option to start in September. However parents can still opt for a January or April start for the younger ones.