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The steroid junkies' perfectly unscientific medical trial
- Thread starter petitpas
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filipenko32
2xDD & Expecting No.3
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Hi all,
As you probably now know from my other threads this last one did not make it either. I am actually very relieved as there was a lot wrong from the start and I had many doubts... So relieved it was over quickly - I am lucky. Just had an erpc yesterday which went brilliantly and I feel great. I am now starting to strongly suspect that these mc's are due to chromosomal problems and bad luck. This is because all the bad chromosomal development signs are always there (week behind dates, wonky hcgs, large yolk sack or too small gest sac) I'm still young I think at 32 and I met a girl yesterday at the hospital who is 28 and has had 3 (2 due to chromosomal problems for sure) so not age related. I will know for sure hopefully with this one as i have had the tissue sent off to cytogenics to be tested. Anyway, we have 4 options now:
1. try again asap with clexane, aspirin and progesterone
2. wait one cycle and then try again with the steroids from bfp, and all of above
3. IVF / ICSI with pre implantation genetic diagnosis (so embryos are screened for ALL chromosomes before implantation) £8K !!!!!!!!!!!! per cycle eeek
4. try again with no treatment, there's nothing wrong with me just need a good egg and sperm to meet and divide properly
5. Give up (That's why I said there are only 4 options!)
What do you all think?
As you probably now know from my other threads this last one did not make it either. I am actually very relieved as there was a lot wrong from the start and I had many doubts... So relieved it was over quickly - I am lucky. Just had an erpc yesterday which went brilliantly and I feel great. I am now starting to strongly suspect that these mc's are due to chromosomal problems and bad luck. This is because all the bad chromosomal development signs are always there (week behind dates, wonky hcgs, large yolk sack or too small gest sac) I'm still young I think at 32 and I met a girl yesterday at the hospital who is 28 and has had 3 (2 due to chromosomal problems for sure) so not age related. I will know for sure hopefully with this one as i have had the tissue sent off to cytogenics to be tested. Anyway, we have 4 options now:
1. try again asap with clexane, aspirin and progesterone
2. wait one cycle and then try again with the steroids from bfp, and all of above
3. IVF / ICSI with pre implantation genetic diagnosis (so embryos are screened for ALL chromosomes before implantation) £8K !!!!!!!!!!!! per cycle eeek
4. try again with no treatment, there's nothing wrong with me just need a good egg and sperm to meet and divide properly
5. Give up (That's why I said there are only 4 options!)
What do you all think?
petitpas
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Filipenko, I'm glad the ERPC wasn't too traumatic but still so sorry for your loss.
I understand what you mean about the relief of it being a genetic anomaly. I have had that with two of my losses. They were so different to my later, supposedly healthy ones.
I think you are doing exactly the right thing by getting the tissue tested. Hopefully, the results will confirm your fears but also give you hope that next time will be better.
You and your husband can improve your diets and habits (drinking, smoking, healthy food, not overheating his sperm) in order to increase your chances of a healthy bean next time. It can take three months for any benefits to be seen but would be a cheaper start than the £8k for PGD.
If the test comes back as normal (i.e. your body has a problem that needs fixing), I would suggest the following:
Progesterone from ovulation - as I understand it, this can help specifically with early losses that were struggling to keep up before they were lost.
Baby aspirin
Heparin - to be honest, I read some research recently that for women who tested negative for lupus and the standard clotting panel giving heparin made no difference. Have you had these tests done?
Ultimately, as heparin does not cross the placenta it is not harmful to the baby so if you feel you'd rather take it and your doctor is happy then you should be ok.
Vitamin D - there is some discussion whether women lacking in vitamin D are more likely to miscarry so maybe you can take a supplement? You should check the dose with your doctor first.
Step 2 - have the nkcells tests. Dependant on results, decide whether to go with steroids or similar alongside the above.
I'm not a doctor, just writing about what I have learned journeying through my own recurrent miscarriage experience.
I hope you continue to recover well but don't be hard on yourself if you feel like you need some time off or a good cry. You are a strong brave lady and you have three gorgeous angels watching over you
I understand what you mean about the relief of it being a genetic anomaly. I have had that with two of my losses. They were so different to my later, supposedly healthy ones.
I think you are doing exactly the right thing by getting the tissue tested. Hopefully, the results will confirm your fears but also give you hope that next time will be better.
You and your husband can improve your diets and habits (drinking, smoking, healthy food, not overheating his sperm) in order to increase your chances of a healthy bean next time. It can take three months for any benefits to be seen but would be a cheaper start than the £8k for PGD.
If the test comes back as normal (i.e. your body has a problem that needs fixing), I would suggest the following:
Progesterone from ovulation - as I understand it, this can help specifically with early losses that were struggling to keep up before they were lost.
Baby aspirin
Heparin - to be honest, I read some research recently that for women who tested negative for lupus and the standard clotting panel giving heparin made no difference. Have you had these tests done?
Ultimately, as heparin does not cross the placenta it is not harmful to the baby so if you feel you'd rather take it and your doctor is happy then you should be ok.
Vitamin D - there is some discussion whether women lacking in vitamin D are more likely to miscarry so maybe you can take a supplement? You should check the dose with your doctor first.
Step 2 - have the nkcells tests. Dependant on results, decide whether to go with steroids or similar alongside the above.
I'm not a doctor, just writing about what I have learned journeying through my own recurrent miscarriage experience.
I hope you continue to recover well but don't be hard on yourself if you feel like you need some time off or a good cry. You are a strong brave lady and you have three gorgeous angels watching over you
petitpas
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PS: I tend to wait until after the first af to ttc. I don't like it how they scrape blindly during the ERPC and I've had bits left behind. With a natural af after I feel like I have cleaned out the old and the environment is nice and fresh for a new baby. You'd also have your test results back by then and be able to make a more informed decision on what you want to do.
Saying that, plenty of women ttc immediately and are fine so it really is what you feel most comfortable with!
Saying that, plenty of women ttc immediately and are fine so it really is what you feel most comfortable with!
filipenko32
2xDD & Expecting No.3
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Thanks Petitpas, so kind of you to take the trouble to help me - no wonder you've been thanked so many times! I've added one more for you We do the whole healthy diet/habits thing and have been for over a year. You might be interested to know that I have made my husband have 3 x sperm tests and a semen DNA fragmentation test which tests for broken DNA which can cause miscarriages. The sperm tests always came out the same and this was interesting as the 1st one was the only variable in conditions in that a 2 months before that test we had been to Vegas for a week. Me with 2 girlfriends and my husband with his friends went and although sometimes we got together for the day my husband and his friends REALLY hammered the drink for a whole week - and I mean night and day drinking solid, my husband looked appalling when we got home and was very very ill - serves him right and i didnt look after him!!! :laugh: However my point is that the results never changed and this is why. After that 1st test (which was within the 3 month sperm regeneration period for the drinking binge) my husband's results came back with a VERY high sperm count but low morphology (3%) meaning, as I'm sure you know, that 97% of his sperm were abnormal freaky things!! I was just beside myself so I made him give up drink, take vitamins, etc for 4 months and then we had the test done again - no different. The fertility specialist said that high sperm / low morphology makes up for it as more are normal as there are more sperm but I have never really been convinced of that. They 'diagnosed' him as 'capable of conception'. Well yes that's all true but what quality is what I always think!? What do you think? The semen dna frag test came back normal.
If the chromo tests come back as normal I will be surprised I think but in a way glad as at least there's something that can be done about it with treatment. I think you're right about waiting for 1st af and making a nice hotel room! But I am sooo impatient to be pregnant again, might have to be sensible though.
Had all tests done for heparin, nothing wrong with me aside from a possible protein S deficiency which is related to blood clotting.
Like the vitamin D idea - will do that!
How much aspirin do you take and when from?
To get a reliable NK cells result doctor says bloods have to be sent to Chicago and you need a womb biopsy?!?
How far along are you now? I REALLY hope everything goes well for you this time, you so deserve it x x
We do the whole healthy diet/habits thing and have been for over a year. You might be interested to know that I have made my husband have 3 x sperm tests and a semen DNA fragmentation test which tests for broken DNA which can cause miscarriages. The sperm tests always came out the same and this was interesting as the 1st one was the only variable in conditions in that a 2 months before that test we had been to Vegas for a week. Me with 2 girlfriends and my husband with his friends went and although sometimes we got together for the day my husband and his friends REALLY hammered the drink for a whole week - and I mean night and day drinking solid, my husband looked appalling when we got home and was very very ill - serves him right and i didnt look after him!!! :laugh: However my point is that the results never changed and this is why. After that 1st test (which was within the 3 month sperm regeneration period for the drinking binge) my husband's results came back with a VERY high sperm count but low morphology (3%) meaning, as I'm sure you know, that 97% of his sperm were abnormal freaky things!! I was just beside myself so I made him give up drink, take vitamins, etc for 4 months and then we had the test done again - no different. The fertility specialist said that high sperm / low morphology makes up for it as more are normal as there are more sperm but I have never really been convinced of that. They 'diagnosed' him as 'capable of conception'. Well yes that's all true but what quality is what I always think!? What do you think? The semen dna frag test came back normal. If the chromo tests come back as normal I will be surprised I think but in a way glad as at least there's something that can be done about it with treatment. I think you're right about waiting for 1st af and making a nice hotel room! But I am sooo impatient to be pregnant again, might have to be sensible though.
Had all tests done for heparin, nothing wrong with me aside from a possible protein S deficiency which is related to blood clotting.
Like the vitamin D idea - will do that!
How much aspirin do you take and when from?
To get a reliable NK cells result doctor says bloods have to be sent to Chicago and you need a womb biopsy?!?
How far along are you now? I REALLY hope everything goes well for you this time, you so deserve it x x
Doodar
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Thanks hunny, I always forget to update in hereLawa, it makes you wonder whether some people become doctors because they are sadists
I've gone ahead and updated the first post with Doodar's status
How is everyone else doing? Pad, was your lining juiciness scan today ok?
So sorry to hear about your loss! you sound like such a brave lady
Can only really echo what petitpas has said she is a wise lady and knows much more about these things than I do.Are you taking the steroids for immune issues? I dont understand why they start them at bfp. I started them on CD2.
It may be worth giving it a shot with the clexane,aspirin and progesterone, like you say if there is nothing wrong with you, you could potentially be wasting 8k if you go down the pgd route. I'll keep everything crossed that your next bfp is your forever bubba and whichever route you take I wish you all the best
filipenko32
2xDD & Expecting No.3
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What do you all think?[/QUOTE]
So sorry to hear about your loss! you sound like such a brave lady Can only really echo what petitpas has said she is a wise lady and knows much more about these things than I do.
Are you taking the steroids for immune issues? I dont understand why they start them at bfp. I started them on CD2.
It may be worth giving it a shot with the clexane,aspirin and progesterone, like you say if there is nothing wrong with you, you could potentially be wasting 8k if you go down the pgd route. I'll keep everything crossed that your next bfp is your forever bubba and whichever route you take I wish you all the best[/QUOTE]
Thanks so much doodar, yes you're right about the 8K, it would be so terrible to waste it if we would have been successful on our own. I am definitely adding aspirin to the mix next time as I have heard so many success stories. Do you mind me asking why you have the ICSI? x
So sorry to hear about your loss! you sound like such a brave lady
Can only really echo what petitpas has said she is a wise lady and knows much more about these things than I do.Are you taking the steroids for immune issues? I dont understand why they start them at bfp. I started them on CD2.
It may be worth giving it a shot with the clexane,aspirin and progesterone, like you say if there is nothing wrong with you, you could potentially be wasting 8k if you go down the pgd route. I'll keep everything crossed that your next bfp is your forever bubba and whichever route you take I wish you all the best
[/QUOTE]Thanks so much doodar, yes you're right about the 8K, it would be so terrible to waste it if we would have been successful on our own. I am definitely adding aspirin to the mix next time as I have heard so many success stories. Do you mind me asking why you have the ICSI? x
filipenko32
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Hi Doodar, please ignore the icsi question, i just read your journal and my goodness you have been through a lot. I really felt your frustration when I read the bit about your OH refusing to go through the op again. I would have been beside myself at that point too but of course it's even worse as you can appreciate his side of things too even when you're going through that terrible frustration at the time. I think that frustration mixed with grief and hurt is the worst worst feeling. I really hope it works out for you in the end. Are you pregnant now? I hope you don't mind me asking this (please feel free not to answer) but why are you going through steroid treatment etc when it is 'likely' (not that I know it's likely at all!) a sperm problem you're having? I hope i've not upset you by asking this. It's just that sometimes I wonder whether my mc's are not attributed the sperm and my DH's low morphology where 97% of the sperm are poor quality. x
Lawa
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Hi Ladies I thought I would share my steriod baby with you! this was our last attempt number 8 X
Gracie Aged about 10 11 weeks here x
https://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm275/Bert1968/P9010003.jpg
https://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm275/Bert1968/P8210022.jpg
Gracie Aged about 10 11 weeks here x
https://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm275/Bert1968/P9010003.jpg
https://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm275/Bert1968/P8210022.jpg
petitpas
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Oh Lawa, she's so pretty! I want one of those! 
Filipenko, I have to admit that I don't know much about sperm issues but I do believe that ICSI is good for just that. I can imagine that you could even go for it without the PGD as with the ICSI they would specifically pick out the 3% good-looking spermies. At the same time, normally only the good ones make it to the eggy so maybe you have just been really unlucky? Urgh, I'm getting all confused now myself
I guess it all depends on the test results?
It's funny because we all seem to be taking steroids at different times of the month. I started at ovulation, Doodar at the beginning of her cycle... Lawa, if you were on Prof Quenby's trial I can imagine that you started with a bfp?
I take two baby aspirin a day but I checked it with my specialists. Coupled with the two shots of heparin I have a day I am well and truly anticoagulated. But then I have a history of clotting (before ttc) so this has always been a particular concern of mine.
I used to start aspirin with a bfp, now I take one every day regardless of when I am in the month (my doctor says it can delay ovulation but I haven't noticed a change) and I started the second aspirin with my bfp.
Filipenko, I have to admit that I don't know much about sperm issues but I do believe that ICSI is good for just that. I can imagine that you could even go for it without the PGD as with the ICSI they would specifically pick out the 3% good-looking spermies. At the same time, normally only the good ones make it to the eggy so maybe you have just been really unlucky? Urgh, I'm getting all confused now myself
I guess it all depends on the test results?
It's funny because we all seem to be taking steroids at different times of the month. I started at ovulation, Doodar at the beginning of her cycle... Lawa, if you were on Prof Quenby's trial I can imagine that you started with a bfp?
I take two baby aspirin a day but I checked it with my specialists. Coupled with the two shots of heparin I have a day I am well and truly anticoagulated. But then I have a history of clotting (before ttc) so this has always been a particular concern of mine.
I used to start aspirin with a bfp, now I take one every day regardless of when I am in the month (my doctor says it can delay ovulation but I haven't noticed a change) and I started the second aspirin with my bfp.
Doodar
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Aw Lawa she is beautiful, gives us all hope! thank you
Filipenko, no don't mind you asking at all. I'm on the steroids because of two previous miscarriages. We can't really attribute it to sperm issues although it maybe, but we were unable to have tests due to it being frozen. Dr said its more likely to be immune issues, because we produced good grade embryos so therefore less likely to be sperm issues. Hope that helps
Filipenko, no don't mind you asking at all. I'm on the steroids because of two previous miscarriages. We can't really attribute it to sperm issues although it maybe, but we were unable to have tests due to it being frozen. Dr said its more likely to be immune issues, because we produced good grade embryos so therefore less likely to be sperm issues. Hope that helps
Lamburai1703
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Hi girls. This thread used to block signatures (in order to not upset people) but they seem to have changed this with the new BnB format. Shall I request that signatures are blocked again? I'm not personally bothered presently, but I guess some days I might be. What do you folk think?
Lamburai1703
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I'm such a knobber! It wasn't this thread that blocked signatures - it was the recurrent miscarriage thread. I've got all confuddled. Doesn't take much...
Need wine. Wine makes Lamb clever...
Need wine. Wine makes Lamb clever...
filipenko32
2xDD & Expecting No.3
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Beautiful little girl Lawa! It's amazing what 2 little tablets a day can do!!
Lamburai1703
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Nah. Not if it wasn't before. I like seeing your shiny new ticker!
filipenko32
2xDD & Expecting No.3
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Aw Lawa she is beautiful, gives us all hope! thank you
Filipenko, no don't mind you asking at all. I'm on the steroids because of two previous miscarriages. We can't really attribute it to sperm issues although it maybe, but we were unable to have tests due to it being frozen. Dr said its more likely to be immune issues, because we produced good grade embryos so therefore less likely to be sperm issues. Hope that helps
That makes sense thank-you!
