Tuition Fee Increases - Discuss!



To me it just seems like the stereotypical American universities now. Grades are of little importance if you have money. If you have money you put your child through it, regardless of where their loyalties lie - party or academia.


That's more or less a bit of a stereotype that you see in movies or TV. It's not really like that in Canada and the US. Yes, tuition fees for places like Harvard are outrageous ($100,000+) but you need the grades to get in too.

The overwhelming majority of US + Canadian students go to cheap community colleges first, paid for by student loans or waitressing - then if we choose to, go on to universities and still waitress.

Can't comment on the UK issue but that's more or less how it is here.

It took me 8 years to finish my degree. A long time, yes, but I paid every penny of it.

I wonder how many top CEOs and leading movers and shakers in the world of politics, think tanks, journalism et al come from cheap community or even state colleges?

The power structure is unfair and tuition fees takes away from a true meritocracy.

You can say you need the grades too but I imagine a poor scholar student has to try ten times harder to get into Harvard than someone who can afford the fees.
 


To me it just seems like the stereotypical American universities now. Grades are of little importance if you have money. If you have money you put your child through it, regardless of where their loyalties lie - party or academia.


That's more or less a bit of a stereotype that you see in movies or TV. It's not really like that in Canada and the US. Yes, tuition fees for places like Harvard are outrageous ($100,000+) but you need the grades to get in too.

The overwhelming majority of US + Canadian students go to cheap community colleges first, paid for by student loans or waitressing - then if we choose to, go on to universities and still waitress.

Can't comment on the UK issue but that's more or less how it is here.

It took me 8 years to finish my degree. A long time, yes, but I paid every penny of it.

I wonder how many top CEOs and leading movers and shakers in the world of politics, think tanks, journalism et al come from cheap community or even state colleges?

The power structure is unfair and tuition fees takes away from a true meritocracy.

You can say you need the grades too but I imagine a poor scholar student has to try ten times harder to get into Harvard than someone who can afford the fees.

They sure do. But that's usually one of the first lessons many young kids learn when they start to look towards college - life is not fair, it never has and it never will be - so if you want to rise about the rest, you may have to work a million times harder than the guy sitting next to you.

A different mindset I suppose.
 


To me it just seems like the stereotypical American universities now. Grades are of little importance if you have money. If you have money you put your child through it, regardless of where their loyalties lie - party or academia.


That's more or less a bit of a stereotype that you see in movies or TV. It's not really like that in Canada and the US. Yes, tuition fees for places like Harvard are outrageous ($100,000+) but you need the grades to get in too.

The overwhelming majority of US + Canadian students go to cheap community colleges first, paid for by student loans or waitressing - then if we choose to, go on to universities and still waitress.

Can't comment on the UK issue but that's more or less how it is here.

It took me 8 years to finish my degree. A long time, yes, but I paid every penny of it.

I wonder how many top CEOs and leading movers and shakers in the world of politics, think tanks, journalism et al come from cheap community or even state colleges?

The power structure is unfair and tuition fees takes away from a true meritocracy.

You can say you need the grades too but I imagine a poor scholar student has to try ten times harder to get into Harvard than someone who can afford the fees.

They sure do. But that's usually one of the first lessons many young kids learn when they start to look towards college - life is not fair, it never has and it never will be - so if you want to rise about the rest, you may have to work a million times harder than the guy sitting next to you.

A different mindset I suppose.

A very good mindset I think. I was a teacher before I had my daughter and in UK the vast majority of students that I taught expected everything to be handed to them on a plate and not to have to work for it at all.
 


To me it just seems like the stereotypical American universities now. Grades are of little importance if you have money. If you have money you put your child through it, regardless of where their loyalties lie - party or academia.


That's more or less a bit of a stereotype that you see in movies or TV. It's not really like that in Canada and the US. Yes, tuition fees for places like Harvard are outrageous ($100,000+) but you need the grades to get in too.

The overwhelming majority of US + Canadian students go to cheap community colleges first, paid for by student loans or waitressing - then if we choose to, go on to universities and still waitress.

Can't comment on the UK issue but that's more or less how it is here.

It took me 8 years to finish my degree. A long time, yes, but I paid every penny of it.

I wonder how many top CEOs and leading movers and shakers in the world of politics, think tanks, journalism et al come from cheap community or even state colleges?

The power structure is unfair and tuition fees takes away from a true meritocracy.

You can say you need the grades too but I imagine a poor scholar student has to try ten times harder to get into Harvard than someone who can afford the fees.

They sure do. But that's usually one of the first lessons many young kids learn when they start to look towards college - life is not fair, it never has and it never will be - so if you want to rise about the rest, you may have to work a million times harder than the guy sitting next to you.

A different mindset I suppose.

A very good mindset I think. I was a teacher before I had my daughter and in UK the vast majority of students that I taught expected everything to be handed to them on a plate and not to have to work for it at all.

But then they realised that was only true if they were rich.

Through history life has not been fair and equality has been a pipe dream. Generally those who work towards equality for all have been the good guys. But saying poor people don't deserve access to power unless they work much, MUCH harder than their upper class or richer peers seems fine to some people. I find that very wrong.

Everyone knows life isn't fair but throughout history we have those who think that's fine and those who have fought against slavery and bigotry and nepotism and all other unfair elements. I don't understand people who are actively supportive of an unfair society by validating its existence with their views.

Shouldn't we hope and strive for a world where people are treated equally and anyone can have access to power and opportunities regardless of what daddy earns or the colour of their skin or their sex etc.? Surely if we strive for that we will end up living in a fairer society where all people can be represented and not just the rich? Then we can strive to live in a true meritocracy where talent above all else qualifies you for any position. Or maybe its better to teach poor folk a lesson and stop them getting uppity by expecting equal access in a modern western society? :dohh:
 


To me it just seems like the stereotypical American universities now. Grades are of little importance if you have money. If you have money you put your child through it, regardless of where their loyalties lie - party or academia.


That's more or less a bit of a stereotype that you see in movies or TV. It's not really like that in Canada and the US. Yes, tuition fees for places like Harvard are outrageous ($100,000+) but you need the grades to get in too.

The overwhelming majority of US + Canadian students go to cheap community colleges first, paid for by student loans or waitressing - then if we choose to, go on to universities and still waitress.

Can't comment on the UK issue but that's more or less how it is here.

It took me 8 years to finish my degree. A long time, yes, but I paid every penny of it.

I wonder how many top CEOs and leading movers and shakers in the world of politics, think tanks, journalism et al come from cheap community or even state colleges?

The power structure is unfair and tuition fees takes away from a true meritocracy.

You can say you need the grades too but I imagine a poor scholar student has to try ten times harder to get into Harvard than someone who can afford the fees.

They sure do. But that's usually one of the first lessons many young kids learn when they start to look towards college - life is not fair, it never has and it never will be - so if you want to rise about the rest, you may have to work a million times harder than the guy sitting next to you.

A different mindset I suppose.

A very good mindset I think. I was a teacher before I had my daughter and in UK the vast majority of students that I taught expected everything to be handed to them on a plate and not to have to work for it at all.

But then they realised that was only true if they were rich.

Through history life has not been fair and equality has been a pipe dream. Generally those who work towards equality for all have been the good guys. But saying poor people don't deserve access to power unless they work much, MUCH harder than their upper class or richer peers seems fine to some people. I find that very wrong.

Everyone knows life isn't fair but throughout history we have those who think that's fine and those who have fought against slavery and bigotry and nepotism and all other unfair elements. I don't understand people who are actively supportive of an unfair society by validating its existence with their views.

Shouldn't we hope and strive for a world where people are treated equally and anyone can have access to power and opportunities regardless of what daddy earns or the colour of their skin or their sex etc.? Surely if we strive for that we will end up living in a fairer society where all people can be represented and not just the rich? Then we can strive to live in a true meritocracy where talent above all else qualifies you for any position. Or maybe its better to teach poor folk a lesson and stop them getting uppity by expecting equal access in a modern western society? :dohh:

erm I was agreeing with the part of her quote when she said 'if you want to rise about the rest, you may have to work a million times harder than the guy sitting next to you'. People should expect to work for what they get whether they are rich/poor etc etc. I am not saying what you are saying I am....
 


To me it just seems like the stereotypical American universities now. Grades are of little importance if you have money. If you have money you put your child through it, regardless of where their loyalties lie - party or academia.


That's more or less a bit of a stereotype that you see in movies or TV. It's not really like that in Canada and the US. Yes, tuition fees for places like Harvard are outrageous ($100,000+) but you need the grades to get in too.

The overwhelming majority of US + Canadian students go to cheap community colleges first, paid for by student loans or waitressing - then if we choose to, go on to universities and still waitress.

Can't comment on the UK issue but that's more or less how it is here.

It took me 8 years to finish my degree. A long time, yes, but I paid every penny of it.

I wonder how many top CEOs and leading movers and shakers in the world of politics, think tanks, journalism et al come from cheap community or even state colleges?

The power structure is unfair and tuition fees takes away from a true meritocracy.

You can say you need the grades too but I imagine a poor scholar student has to try ten times harder to get into Harvard than someone who can afford the fees.

They sure do. But that's usually one of the first lessons many young kids learn when they start to look towards college - life is not fair, it never has and it never will be - so if you want to rise about the rest, you may have to work a million times harder than the guy sitting next to you.

A different mindset I suppose.

A very good mindset I think. I was a teacher before I had my daughter and in UK the vast majority of students that I taught expected everything to be handed to them on a plate and not to have to work for it at all.

But then they realised that was only true if they were rich.

Through history life has not been fair and equality has been a pipe dream. Generally those who work towards equality for all have been the good guys. But saying poor people don't deserve access to power unless they work much, MUCH harder than their upper class or richer peers seems fine to some people. I find that very wrong.

Everyone knows life isn't fair but throughout history we have those who think that's fine and those who have fought against slavery and bigotry and nepotism and all other unfair elements. I don't understand people who are actively supportive of an unfair society by validating its existence with their views.

Shouldn't we hope and strive for a world where people are treated equally and anyone can have access to power and opportunities regardless of what daddy earns or the colour of their skin or their sex etc.? Surely if we strive for that we will end up living in a fairer society where all people can be represented and not just the rich? Then we can strive to live in a true meritocracy where talent above all else qualifies you for any position. Or maybe its better to teach poor folk a lesson and stop them getting uppity by expecting equal access in a modern western society? :dohh:

erm I was agreeing with the part of her quote when she said 'if you want to rise about the rest, you may have to work a million times harder than the guy sitting next to you'. People should expect to work for what they get whether they are rich/poor etc etc. I am not saying what you are saying I am....

If you look back at all the quotes above the post they're about poor people having to work harder than their rich counterparts.:flower: That's the essence of what tuition fees do. It takes away from a true meritocracy which is the ideal where people with talent and ability get ahead. Hard work and resilience etc. But some people think that poor people having to juggle multiple jobs while excelling at their studies to compete with rich people who already have cultural capital, connections as well as money and can do minimal work to get ahead and lead in multiple fields is perfectly acceptable. Chelsea Clinton left college to get a six figure salary. Do you think she worked her socks off and had many jobs to support her college fees? Not even big banks or consultancies give their graduates six figure salary starts. Of course life isn't fair and course you have to work hard to get ahead but that should ideally be equally and fairly applied to all. I don't understand people who disagree.
 


To me it just seems like the stereotypical American universities now. Grades are of little importance if you have money. If you have money you put your child through it, regardless of where their loyalties lie - party or academia.


That's more or less a bit of a stereotype that you see in movies or TV. It's not really like that in Canada and the US. Yes, tuition fees for places like Harvard are outrageous ($100,000+) but you need the grades to get in too.

The overwhelming majority of US + Canadian students go to cheap community colleges first, paid for by student loans or waitressing - then if we choose to, go on to universities and still waitress.

Can't comment on the UK issue but that's more or less how it is here.

It took me 8 years to finish my degree. A long time, yes, but I paid every penny of it.

I wonder how many top CEOs and leading movers and shakers in the world of politics, think tanks, journalism et al come from cheap community or even state colleges?

The power structure is unfair and tuition fees takes away from a true meritocracy.

You can say you need the grades too but I imagine a poor scholar student has to try ten times harder to get into Harvard than someone who can afford the fees.

They sure do. But that's usually one of the first lessons many young kids learn when they start to look towards college - life is not fair, it never has and it never will be - so if you want to rise about the rest, you may have to work a million times harder than the guy sitting next to you.

A different mindset I suppose.

A very good mindset I think. I was a teacher before I had my daughter and in UK the vast majority of students that I taught expected everything to be handed to them on a plate and not to have to work for it at all.

But then they realised that was only true if they were rich.

Through history life has not been fair and equality has been a pipe dream. Generally those who work towards equality for all have been the good guys. But saying poor people don't deserve access to power unless they work much, MUCH harder than their upper class or richer peers seems fine to some people. I find that very wrong.

Everyone knows life isn't fair but throughout history we have those who think that's fine and those who have fought against slavery and bigotry and nepotism and all other unfair elements. I don't understand people who are actively supportive of an unfair society by validating its existence with their views.

Shouldn't we hope and strive for a world where people are treated equally and anyone can have access to power and opportunities regardless of what daddy earns or the colour of their skin or their sex etc.? Surely if we strive for that we will end up living in a fairer society where all people can be represented and not just the rich? Then we can strive to live in a true meritocracy where talent above all else qualifies you for any position. Or maybe its better to teach poor folk a lesson and stop them getting uppity by expecting equal access in a modern western society? :dohh:

erm I was agreeing with the part of her quote when she said 'if you want to rise about the rest, you may have to work a million times harder than the guy sitting next to you'. People should expect to work for what they get whether they are rich/poor etc etc. I am not saying what you are saying I am....

If you look back at all the quotes above the post they're about poor people having to work harder than their rich counterparts.:flower: That's the essence of what tuition fees do. It takes away from a true meritocracy which is the ideal where people with talent and ability get ahead. Hard work and resilience etc. But some people think that poor people having to juggle multiple jobs while excelling at their studies to compete with rich people who already have cultural capital, connections as well as money and can do minimal work to get ahead and lead in multiple fields is perfectly acceptable. Chelsea Clinton left college to get a six figure salary. Do you think she worked her socks off and had many jobs to support her college fees? Not even big banks or consultancies give their graduates six figure salary starts. Of course life isn't fair and course you have to work hard to get ahead but that should ideally be equally and fairly applied to all. I don't understand people who disagree.

I never said I did disagree so I dont know why in your post you are implying that I do. I dont need to be lectured about something that I have not even said. Not sure what I have done to offend you but seems everything I say gets picked upon.
 
I'm not picking on you hun! We're in the debate section. I've accepted you didn't mean it. Just explained why i thought you did and clarified my position. It's not directed at you. It's the debate section. :flower: if you have an opinion about tuition fees feel free to share. :thumbup:
 
Exactly how do you propose that your government affords to make a level playing field for ALL citizens in terms of education, health care, social welfare, etc??? How does that work in reality?

You've got girls on here complaining that they can't even get ultrasound scans because the health care system budget is so far stretched yet nobody wants to pay a higher fee for university.

I live in a country that is just as socialized as the UK, our health care is available to all, our education is subsidized (and more along the proposed new costs), welfare is available to all, maternity leave is one year - where does that money come from?????

If we're going to be blessed enough to live in a place where we can look for help when we're down and out (and not have $10,000 emergency room bills, or no emergency room at all, or perhaps be back at work full time when baby is 6 WEEKS), then we have to accept a reality that it comes at a price - and one of those prices is a fee increase for *optional* education.
 
I'm not picking on you hun! We're in the debate section. I've accepted you didn't mean it. Just explained why i thought you did and clarified my position. It's not directed at you. It's the debate section. :flower: if you have an opinion about tuition fees feel free to share. :thumbup:

It just seems in every debate what I say gets picked apart, but I guess we just have what seem like opposing views at points (although end up being fairly similar in the end!) Anyway, ignore me im tired, ill and hormonal :haha: ...have shared my view 1st page :)
 
Aliss the money comes from a proper tax system particularly for businesses. Our charming new government has cut corporation tax. We're looking at cuts to government spending of something like £80bn over 4 years (is that right ladies? I forget the exact figures). Government statistics put tax evasion at £50bn per year. Other figures calculated by non-government organisations range up to £150bn per year. With a properly funded, equal, education system those talented people from all backgrounds will reach their full potential which in itself will drive the economy and hence business related taxes back to the government. Instead we lose swathes of talented people at every educational level from the general lack of investment. This issue goes beyond higher education.

Even without sorting out the mess of tax evasion income tax could still be increased, particularly on the highest earners. If we are compared to other very socially structured countries our general taxation on personal incomes is relatively low. Furthermore, the Labour party (and the Lib Dems until they got in power) back a graduate tax whereby graduates earning higher incomes will pay an extra tax to give back to their free-at-point-of-delivery education. This is a valid alternative to what we are faced with now though in an ideal world I'd rather see income tax go up on all incomes above a certain level regardless of education.
 
Exactly how do you propose that your government affords to make a level playing field for ALL citizens in terms of education, health care, social welfare, etc??? How does that work in reality?

You've got girls on here complaining that they can't even get ultrasound scans because the health care system budget is so far stretched yet nobody wants to pay a higher fee for university.

I live in a country that is just as socialized as the UK, our health care is available to all, our education is subsidized (and more along the proposed new costs), welfare is available to all, maternity leave is one year - where does that money come from?????

If we're going to be blessed enough to live in a place where we can look for help when we're down and out (and not have $10,000 emergency room bills, or no emergency room at all, or perhaps be back at work full time when baby is 6 WEEKS), then we have to accept a reality that it comes at a price - and one of those prices is a fee increase for *optional* education.

FINALLY now we're getting to the crux. It's not about how lazy students are or how people are not willing to try hard as that's all nonsense :dohh: . It's about social structure and how we go about achieving it. Thankfully AT LAST the debate moves where it needs to be in my opinion.

Along with peanutbean's reply there are a few other factors.

We are in the middle of a recession and although it may not be officially a recession I think most people know and feel that it's still recession time. No other major economy is making cuts in this time.

Some economists think that the way to get yourself out of a recession is to spend your way out as Labour were trying to do. Whether that's right or wrong the one thing no one does is to make cuts during a recession as it will further damage the economy. We are risking a double dip recession when confidence is at a low ebb. It makes more sense to wait till we're in an economic boom to rely on increased tax revenue to make up for spending and to make cuts then when the private sector is thriving. Why is the UK the only major economy to be making cuts at this time? Is it some crazy new economics genius behind it or far more likely is it the conservatives using a tough time to further their ideology which some may agree with but I think is disgraceful. There are cuts across the board but with universities it's not a cut it a 3x increase in fees. Something that will never change or go back.

So along with being in wars which we don't need to be in which cost us billions, along with being too scared to really show any muscle to the banking system and along with not chasing clever corporate tax evasion we're thinking that making our higher education system only accessible to the rich is going to be the answer? Many graduates pay back their fees in taxes as you're much more likely to have a higher paying job once you've graduated. But those people who will not go to university will have lower paid jobs in the future. Furthermore, we will have increased foreign students I imagine but because immigration is cut, they'll use our wonderful education system then go and pay higher taxes in a foreign country.

Like other things the conservatives don't think long term. And here's where I go a little off topic; The whole "big society" idea or whatever it was called by Cameron where he basically tried to justify his massive cuts in funding to non profit organisations. I live in the east end of London where my friend has been mugged directly outside our house, where we have a crack house and brothel 10 doors down, but where we as a middle class couple can afford to live. The community programmes that are run here are magnificent. You have MANY talented and qualified people who do social work with skills that you can't just teach to volunteers. You can't in your spare time decide you want to work in gang intervention with no skillset. You need qualified and able social workers but since there are budget cuts and LOADS of people in these programmes are losing their jobs initiatives will be closed down. LONG TERM crime WILL go up. But because the upper classes in Kensington and Surrey won't really feel it they honestly don't care in my opinion. If he said "oh lets all volunteer to work for the NHS" we'd understand that's ridiculous because you need to be trained but to suggest people who work in the non profits are not skilled people is very unfair.

The school systems here are a joke. We have teachers being fired and assistant teachers being given teachers jobs because every single time the conservatives get into power Newham schools suffer badly.

And lastly, where are the tuition fees money going to? Are we getting tax cuts? It doesn't make economic sense to try and plug a deficit when we're in a recession. This isn't a personal bank account but a major economy. It's nonsense that people buy easily in my opinion. Surely any decent leader of a country not only thinks about fairness and equality for all but also has a little economic sense to not go about making cuts in a recession especially when the long term consequences are taken into account? :shrug:
 
Excellent rant redpoppy! There was at least one other country doing the sane thing as the Tories, so similar that when Labour read out the policies in parliament a while back the Tories weren't actually sure if it was their own policies they were hearing or not. Yes that country was Ireland which is currently being bailed out by the EU so I think we can see quite easily where we're heading.

The Tories always do this because they are selfish, greedy and ignorant of economic process. The last Tory-Lib coalition did the exact same thing and landed us in the Great Depression.

The fee increase will see no extra money or savings in the next few years, shall we say 30 for the sake of argument? Indeed it will cost the government MORE in the coming years as they will be giving out more in loans. Well duh.

In a properly managed economy we can afford to invest in education.

Don't get me started on the Big Society. What a joke! I work for a charity and am in charge of volunteering. All our volunteers are highly qualified scientists. The government thinks any old work can be done by anyone and those who have been shafted by right wing policies leading to massive unemployment have a civic duty to volunteer to earn their pitiful welfare support, far below the minimum wage, so that the richies can continue to have clean streets and the likes while the rest of the country slides into destitution. It is a bloody disgrace. :growlmad:
 


To me it just seems like the stereotypical American universities now. Grades are of little importance if you have money. If you have money you put your child through it, regardless of where their loyalties lie - party or academia.


That's more or less a bit of a stereotype that you see in movies or TV. It's not really like that in Canada and the US. Yes, tuition fees for places like Harvard are outrageous ($100,000+) but you need the grades to get in too.

The overwhelming majority of US + Canadian students go to cheap community colleges first, paid for by student loans or waitressing - then if we choose to, go on to universities and still waitress.

Can't comment on the UK issue but that's more or less how it is here.

It took me 8 years to finish my degree. A long time, yes, but I paid every penny of it.



Yes I know that type of image comes from TV and films, but is that not where most stereotypes are shown? They become what is thought of as the 'norm' and so are portrayed to be such a way.

People, especially those out with the USA have this stereotypical views of American universities because of the way they are portrayed.

That's all, I wasn't making a dig or anything, just saying it's how the majority view these establishments in their stereotypical sense :flower:

 
Exactly how do you propose that your government affords to make a level playing field for ALL citizens in terms of education, health care, social welfare, etc??? How does that work in reality?

You've got girls on here complaining that they can't even get ultrasound scans because the health care system budget is so far stretched yet nobody wants to pay a higher fee for university.

I live in a country that is just as socialized as the UK, our health care is available to all, our education is subsidized (and more along the proposed new costs), welfare is available to all, maternity leave is one year - where does that money come from?????

If we're going to be blessed enough to live in a place where we can look for help when we're down and out (and not have $10,000 emergency room bills, or no emergency room at all, or perhaps be back at work full time when baby is 6 WEEKS), then we have to accept a reality that it comes at a price - and one of those prices is a fee increase for *optional* education.



No one has ever said social welfare and benefits should be a level playing field for all. Never. I personally feel that benefits should be completely means tested across the board and set with a fair cut off limit (I cannot and would not be one to judge what is 'fair' however), this will save revenue. The UK has nuclear weapons, that is no surprise, however, we have enough to bomb the world many times over. Completely destroy it. Again, no surprise. Why does the UK need so much firepower, reduce the amounts of WMDs we have and that could save billions.
There are so many ways to save money, which would leave education and the health system free. Education and a good, available health system are part of the essentiala foundations for a country to prosper. Why should these be taken away? Made exclusive? We need them.

No, we haven't got girls here complaining because the budget is so stretched, it is because the budget has been cut so much it needs to stretch more than ever. It is because health professionals have been dismissed from their posts. That is the reason why.

In the USA, health care is not available to all. It is available to those with money, who can pay their insurance. Are you telling me if a homeless person was to get attacked, he could walk into an ER in America, recieve treatment and just go on his way without a second glance? Of course he couldn't. He would need money and insurance to pay for this. If he is homeless, he has no chance.
That is not the case with the UK system.
However, this digresses from the point.

As for the bolded, let me ask you this. In the UK education is only compulsory to the age of 16. That means, in reality, someones last two years of high school, all their college years or university years are optional. Should we pay for all of these because they are optional?
Our government is targetting only advanced education for the simple reason that "they will earn more with a degree". This is a completely irrational statement if I ever saw one. My uncle has no qualifications past his 16 years, he is a self employed painter and decorator. My parent's are both educated to a college level. My uncle earns more than them. If I become a legal aid solicitor, my parents and uncle will earn more than me. How can someone say the type of qualification or degree one recieves guarantees them into a higher catagory for earnings? You cannot. It's unreasonable to assume such a thing. Earnings are based on choices, chance, luck, skill. Not a degree, although it may help, but not in all cases.

People are finding this unjust also. Why does one sect of academics need to pay whereas others are exclusively paid for by the state?
There is no fairness in this decision, nothing that can justify this what so ever.
 
Sorry if i duplicate other thoughts but i don't have time to read all other comments;

I think its 100% right!! WHY should I pay for other peoples education! I didn't go to uni and i have very good paid job by starting from the bottom and making my way up.

I know a few people who went to uni and after finishing their degree's, changing their minds. Why should i pay some towards of waste of education?

If the cost of the education has gone up like i have to pay for the cost in petrol going up and council tax ect then so should they pay for their education!

I annoys me that there are people who sit on their bums and can get their uni fees waved as the goverment is trying to get them into work but thats life. You need to pay in america and most other places so why not here??
 
Sorry if i duplicate other thoughts but i don't have time to read all other comments;

I think its 100% right!! WHY should I pay for other peoples education! I didn't go to uni and i have very good paid job by starting from the bottom and making my way up.

I know a few people who went to uni and after finishing their degree's, changing their minds. Why should i pay some towards of waste of education?

If the cost of the education has gone up like i have to pay for the cost in petrol going up and council tax ect then so should they pay for their education!

I annoys me that there are people who sit on their bums and can get their uni fees waved as the goverment is trying to get them into work but thats life. You need to pay in america and most other places so why not here??



When your child starts school I guess people should ask why they have to pay taxes to allow them to go to school for free.

 
I'm not sure why I should pay for people to be fixed in hospital, or to have their bins emptied, or to be housed - why can't they just live on the streets after all it's bound to be their fault as everyone has the chance to make their lives as good as the next person. I don't see why I should pay to protect others from theft or to keep criminals off the street. I don't see why I should pay for free school meals as those kids should just do without if their parents can't get off their fat lazy arses and do some proper work to feed their children.

Oh no wait, I don't actually think of any of these things because I can see the bigger picture and how all these public services (and more) benefit the whole country and support the development of incredible prosperity such as we've been experiencing in recent years. I can see how a population of educated people looked after by society improves happiness and wellbeing in uncountable ways for the whole population.

The only thing I actually don't see is why I am supporting the cost of rich people sending their children to private fee-paying schools. :wacko:
 
Sorry if i duplicate other thoughts but i don't have time to read all other comments;

I think its 100% right!! WHY should I pay for other peoples education! I didn't go to uni and i have very good paid job by starting from the bottom and making my way up.

I know a few people who went to uni and after finishing their degree's, changing their minds. Why should i pay some towards of waste of education?

If the cost of the education has gone up like i have to pay for the cost in petrol going up and council tax ect then so should they pay for their education!

I annoys me that there are people who sit on their bums and can get their uni fees waved as the goverment is trying to get them into work but thats life. You need to pay in america and most other places so why not here??

Because the social and power structure in countries where higher education is not free and accessible to all regardless of wealth end up being unfair and not representative of all people from all backgrounds. The rich will have access to power and opportunities and an elite will be deeper ingrained in our society.

Besides, don't be expecting your taxes to be going down any time soon or even ever as a result of these cuts.
 

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