Vaccine Adverse Reactions...Worth the Risk?

[Justagirlxx]

I know there are a few other threads on this topic but it seems to me a new fresh thread needs to be made in order for us to comment on this subject at this time. I would love for this thread to be informative for people who have not yet made a decision on whether to vaccinate.

To me the adverse reactions of vaccines are NOT worth the risk.

I strongly believe in vaccine education. Parents are not told the risks of vaccinations by doctors. Parents need to know. Informed consent is called for in every aspect of medical care besides this.

www.nvic.org is the National Vaccine Information Center and shows my stance on vaccination. It has links to many credible studies. It calls for the informed consent of parents in regards to vaccination. I believe this site is something all parents should read through before making the decision on whether to vaccinate their children.

I would like a place for people on both sides of the fence to comment, share their stories and their research. I would love for everyone to provide links to more information of their stance.

My heart goes out to the family and friends of all the children harmed by adverse vaccine reactions.

 

[November1984]

I am not into vax at all but I think a lot of info on this site isn't all that credible and sounds like fear mongering.
From the site above: https://www.nvic.org/Downloads/49-Doses-PosterB.aspx

Okay like the cases of asthma going up on the side for instance, well that also has something to do with a rise in c-sections in my opinion. Don't even get me started on their suggestion vaccines cause autism. Information like that is subjective and the kind of stuff that makes those who choose to not vax look foolish. I get why some people roll their eyes at me when I tell them I don't vaccinate, because they are grouping me with anti vax people like Jenny McCarthy.

I am just giving my honest opinion of people like the creators of the above site. I hate being stereotyped as that kind anti vax person.

It's like PETA. If you are strongly pro animal rights you have people grouping you into the PETA clan. I hate that they even exist so that the credible animal welfare groups and supporters lose their voice because everyone thinks you are a PETA nutter.

 

[Dopeyjopey]

November1984, do you mind explaining why you don't agree with vaccinations? I had A vaccinated and will continue to do so, not for his protection, but to protect other people he could pass an illness onto.

There are many illnesses that have been wiped out in the uk due to vaccinations (smallpox for example) and I feel it is all of our responsibilities to keep them under control.

 

[PeanutBean]

Goodness!

An epidemic of chronic disease and disability is plaguing America. Our children are the most highly vaccinated children in the world and they are among the most chronically ill and disabled.

Compared to parts of Africa where infant mortality is massively high? I agree, definitely scaremongering!

unidentified contaminants

with what evidence? And what does this even mean? Is water an unidentified contaminant? And whilst the number of vaccines have increased in the large part the amount of active components has decreased as vaccines have been honed and improved. (These are from the pdf November highlighted.)

The vast majority of kids have no reaction. The vast majority of kids that have a reaction will have a very mild one, rash, a raised temperature, irritability etc. Maybe I should post a thread with all the complications associated with each of thee diseases so people can see what would happen without vaccination programmes.

 

[cherryglitter]

I hate threads like this as it always makes me feel like im doing something wrong when infact im actually do what's best for my baby and others.

Im paranoid enough as it is about my baby's health.

 

[Justagirlxx]

November.. So what kind of anti-vax person are you exactly?
Dopey.. I can't relate to your stance at all. My child's life is much more important to me than anyone else in the world and so I do not feel any personal responsiblity to protect our societies health over his. I respect your stance on this I just can not personally relate.
Peanut Bean.. You say the vast majority of children are not harmed by vaccines. But what about the children who are? Are their lives not important at all?

I will take out the part of it not being fear mongering. I'd much rather hear your opinions on vaccination itself, not on whether or not the site I linked to is fear mongering. To me thats not the important issue.

 

[Justagirlxx]

I hate threads like this as it always makes me feel like im doing something wrong when infact im actually do what's best for my baby and others.

Im paranoid enough as it is about my baby's health.

I would question why a post on a forum is making you second guess yourself and your decision to vaccinate. Is it because this information is something you hadn't heard of before you vaccinated your children? Does this not make you believe in informed consent?

 

[Lynz16]

As a degree educated microbiologist I have to say that I am pro vaccinations as I am very very well educated to what these diseases can do, especially to children. I also believe that parents are very well informed of side-effects of these vaccinations, and certainly in the UK we have to sign a consent form to say we will allow the vaccination to take place, we get given a booklet at birth containing a lot of information about the vaccinations and there is 8-10 weeks before the baby is vaccinated so if you have any further questions or research that you want to partake in there is plenty of time.

What many people don't realise is that it only takes a very small minority of people not to be vaccinated for some of these diseases to re-establish themselves within a population and that the vaccinations do not nessecarily stop you from getting these diseases, they primarily give your body a secondary response to something that it has already encountered so gives you a better chance of surviving it if you do happen to catch it.

The vaccines very rarely have any major side-effects on children these days, only in a very very small percentage do they cause problems, any minor side-effects such as raised temp, rashes etc are only caused by the immune system defending itself against the pathogen which ultimately is the aim of the vaccination program.


On the other hand, if we all stop vaccinating and diseases like the plague and small pox come back then something like 50% of all children will die, child mortality has decreased amazingly since the introduction of vaccinations. At the end of the day it is every individual parents choice and responsibility to decide if they want to vaccinate but on a personal level I have had two friends on life-support in their teenage years due to meningitis scepticemia and would definitely not like my son to go through that just because I decided not to vaccinate him.

 

[November1984]

Hahaha I am going to be blunt here -- I really feel shitty and have a headache and don't feel like typing a large amount right now about my reasons. I was about to talk about smallpox being almost non-existent in every country but Africa before the official eradication program but then I have to get into things like the vaccine being available in the late 1700's and vaccine rates before the eradication program which were of course not 100%. I don't wanna! Tired.

I was just talking about the site and how info like that is what makes me look wacky to people.
I don't disagree with vaccines. There are some I think should def be done and some I think are total crap and over doing it. My son is naturally immune to measles for instance and I appreciate that.

The vaccine debates are similar to people debating about religion or politics. A lot of the info on both sides can be subjective and those that feel strongly about their positions aren't going to budge.

I used to debate about the existence of god until I just gave up one day. I think I have to throw in my cards because I'm too tired nowadays to play anymore!

PS for the above post.
Why would smallpox come back? We don't vaccinate against it anymore really. There is more of a likelihood of it coming back from vaccines than naturally. BTW something like the black plague killing a large scale of people isn't going to happen again in any hygienic, clean society. To say 50% of kids would die if the plague or smallpox came back is scare mongering as well.
People are not vaccinated against plague in modern society because we don't have domesticated rat populations living in our cupboards. Plague has nothing to do w/vaccination schedules.

 

[PeanutBean]

Peanut Bean.. You say the vast majority of children are not harmed by vaccines. But what about the children who are? Are their lives not important at all?

Well, yes and no. Yes the individual child does and the family and the hurt and the upset and the loss. But on the grand scheme of things one has to weigh up the risk and the risk of these diseases would be much higher and they in turn would have a higher risk of leading to the loss of far far more children in much more horrific ways than through immunisation.

I agree with everything Lynz16 said. I'm a degree educated biologist too so understand the science surrounding this sort of thing and how to spot dodgy or indeed none-research. Though Wakefield slipped through the nets of people far better qualified than me, though he did just make up his data...

I've been on all these recent threads to a greater or lesser extent and my eternal beef with the whole issue will continue to be the shocking lack of evidence backing up claims made by the anti-vaccination lobby, the complacent and purposeful misunderstanding of research and the double standards in expressions of risk. I generally believe in free choice, though I also think we, in our compact and congested societies, should be considerate of one another, but I expect people to be able to make their choices on accurate information provided by reputable sources and explained in a realistic and understandable way that nonetheless doesn't detract from the actual findings of the science.

 

[trumpetbum]

My main issue when vaccinating my girls was the lack of availability of somewhat impartial but credible information that a parent could access. Some of the 'evidence' which is cited on online sites is outdated, unbalanced and heavily biased. Much is opinion disguised as fact.
I'm very glad to have access through work and study to information that I couldn't access back then without difficulty but I feel that this information should be more easily accessible to all.
I hate when vaccination is reduced to anti vaccination versus pro vaccination. In my opinion vaccinations should be looked at on an individual basis and the pros and cons weighed up. If all vaccination is bad then is the eradication of Small pox a negative? If all vaccination is good then should we just blindly accept whatever vaccination is offered?
I had both my kids vaccinated as infants after serious consideration. I will do the same with my son as an infant but would not vaccinate for chickenpox and have not taken the H1N1 vaccination either before pregnancy when it was offered to me as an NHS employee or in this pregnancy. My friend was a preemie and has respiratory complications as a result and so she took the vaccine as the benefits for her outweighed the risks. Others may assess the evidence and make a different decision but I am happy that I made the right one for myself and my baby based on the evidence available.
I think we need to stop lumping vaccinations together and assess the risks/benefits of each on an individual basis.

 

[November1984]

My main issue when vaccinating my girls was the lack of availability of somewhat impartial but credible information that a parent could access. Some of the 'evidence' which is cited on online sites is outdated, unbalanced and heavily biased. Much is opinion disguised as fact.
I'm very glad to have access through work and study to information that I couldn't access back then without difficulty but I feel that this information should be more easily accessible to all.
I hate when vaccination is reduced to anti vaccination versus pro vaccination. In my opinion vaccinations should be looked at on an individual basis and the pros and cons weighed up. If all vaccination is bad then is the eradication of Small pox a negative? If all vaccination is good then should we just blindly accept whatever vaccination is offered?
I had both my kids vaccinated as infants after serious consideration. I will do the same with my son as an infant but would not vaccinate for chickenpox and have not taken the H1N1 vaccination either before pregnancy when it was offered to me as an NHS employee or in this pregnancy. My friend was a preemie and has respiratory complications as a result and so she took the vaccine as the benefits for her outweighed the risks. Others may assess the evidence and make a different decision but I am happy that I made the right one for myself and my baby based on the evidence available.
I think we need to stop lumping vaccinations together and assess the risks/benefits of each on an individual basis.

There's totally scare mongering going on both sides. From pro-vax groups saying that plagues will come back and kill kids to anti-vax groups saying your kid will have seizures forever after a jab. Both sides can be quite radical.
I'm like you in the way I try to look at them on an individual basis.

 

[mommyof3co]

We don't vaccinate. I've done loads of research, some from the site above but also many other places and we decided that the risks of vaccines far outweigh the benefits of them for OUR children. I truly believe that parents should make the decision that is best for THEIR family...whichever way that is, vaccinated or not. But to actually do the research, look at BOTH sides, not just take your drs word or mom's advice, friends advice, etc. ACtually really take the time to read into it all, ingredients, risks of the disease, benefit of the natural disease, chances of getting the disease, risks of vaccine and benefits of vaccines.

 

[Dopeyjopey]

I would just like to add a few things as I re-read my post and it sounded a bit accusatory which i didn't intend. I did not blindly vaccinate because i was told it was best. FOB has a huge interest in medication and chemicals and we spoke at length trying to decide what to do. It was what was best for us, and looking at the wider picture. Of course my child's health is my first priority, however I had to look at it this way: if A had contracted something at the age of 6 weeks from a 2 year old that was not vaccinated i would feel incredibly angry towards that child's parents. Selfish, i know, but i wouldn't be able to help it. The guilt i would feel if A passed something on would eat away at me

I can understand why some people choose not to vaccinate, but not those that have heard a rumour or believed 'evidence' that had no credible research to back it up.

 

[indy and lara]

Emma has had all her vaccines and we will continue to vaccinate. I believe in the UK vaccination schedule and I believe that I am doing the right thing. Have no doubts at all.

 

[SKATERBUN]

My main concerns are with the additives/preservatives they contain.

Namely Formaldehyde and Aluminium. I know a lot of preservatives are being phased out like mercury etc. and pro-vacinators will say that these quantities are so minimal that it's negligible. However, the former additives I mention have been linked with cancer. Something I read from a reputable source about the binding of DNA ?
As a layman I do not know anything about this I'm no scientist thats for sure but I am intelligent to realise that this doesn't sound either natural or healthy.

If the amounts are so small then what about the routine intensive vacinations my LO has to go through before the age of one, at 8, 12, 16 weeks, are these small amounts not accumalating in her tiny system?

So as neither a pro-vacinator or an anti-vacinator, just someone who is doing extensive research on the subject before I believe anything I'm told, would anyone have an educated opinion on my concern?

I've not spoken to my doctor about this yet (but will), but it was she that sent me the info in the post about vacines for my daughter and the ingredients they contain.
I have not been taken in so far by any scaremongering stuff on autism and remain totally on the fence at this stage.

I definitely dont want to get into any debate on this subject, having seen other threads I know the topic is emotive for sure, but OP has asked our opinion and it's not about the rights and wrongs (as someone else pointed out) but is interesting to see who actually questions what they are given these days

 

[trumpetbum]

Skaterbun, having recently looked into this again (my last baby was almost 9 years ago, so I've had to look at the case for and against the usual rounds of infant vaxes again to see if anything had changed) I think I have some literature saved on my other laptop hard drive I'll try to dig out. It's not conclusive proof that these additives are harmless but it does make a pretty convincing case (imo) considering the aluminium level exposure in infants from infant milk (breast and formula, with formula containing higher levels) which exceeds that of vaccinations. In terms of formaldehyde it also compares residual levels in vaccines to that present in the average infants body from environmental sources etc.
It's a shame that while there are numerous theories and opinions online pointing towards these additives (both in support or rubbishing it) that often the writers don't bother to cite the references so we as interested parents can go and check the conclusions for ourselves.
For me, I decided given the evidence to vaccinate but I wanted to make that decision based on the conclusions I came to for myself too.

 

[PeanutBean]

I don't have access (or time right now) to reputable sources but trumpetbum's sound good. And this is how it's done. What's key is the quantities and how this is compared to natural environmental exposure. Like with the mercury thing, there is more in a tin of tuna than there ever is in a jab. It's all relative. Another thing is to think about other carcinogenic things knocking about our houses and lives. Many, many things are linked with cancer but generally there needs to be a lot of them about for anything to happen.

 

[SKATERBUN]

Thanks trumpetbum and peanutbean. i guess there are lots of nasties in the environment we dont know about.
Yes I know we are coming into contact with small quantities of toxins everyday from clothes,furniture,foods - both ingested, absorbed through the skin and inhaled.
I think what concerned me is that these quantities no matter how trace are being injected directly into LO's bloodstream.
Just wondering though if a substance is metabolised differently or better if it is taken orally.

 

[PeanutBean]

Well they're not actually injected into the blood stream, jabs are intramuscular (if that's the right term). Digested food is absorbed into the blood stream. Breathed in toxins also pass directly into the blood stream.