Weapons. Yes or No? Why?

[Pearls18]

I am assuming it wasn't legal for him to have the gun (I hope...!) but more that it's the lax laws that are the issue, again if they had the strict buying, licencing and holding rules like the UK this would not have happened.

 

[xemmax]

Apparently it is legal

"Federal law prohibits the sale of a gun to anyone under 18, so that means that the child couldn’t be the actual purchaser, but you could, and it’s completely legal, for an adult to buy a gun for a child as a gift,” said Nichols. The adult purchaser would undergo a background check if the gun is bought from a federally licensed firearms dealer, such as at a gun store.

https://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/20...made-for-kids-how-young-is-too-young-to-shoot

 

[Pearls18]

Apparently it is legal

"Federal law prohibits the sale of a gun to anyone under 18, so that means that the child couldn’t be the actual purchaser, but you could, and it’s completely legal, for an adult to buy a gun for a child as a gift,” said Nichols. The adult purchaser would undergo a background check if the gun is bought from a federally licensed firearms dealer, such as at a gun store.

https://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/20...made-for-kids-how-young-is-too-young-to-shoot

Genuinely shocked and appauled......

 

[xemmax]

Apparently it is legal

"Federal law prohibits the sale of a gun to anyone under 18, so that means that the child couldn’t be the actual purchaser, but you could, and it’s completely legal, for an adult to buy a gun for a child as a gift,” said Nichols. The adult purchaser would undergo a background check if the gun is bought from a federally licensed firearms dealer, such as at a gun store.

https://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/20...made-for-kids-how-young-is-too-young-to-shoot

Genuinely shocked and appauled......

Me too... I really don't know what justification there is for a child having access to a gun let alone owning one for themself, so I'd love it if someone could enlighten me.

 

[Lina]

Apparently it is legal

"Federal law prohibits the sale of a gun to anyone under 18, so that means that the child couldn’t be the actual purchaser, but you could, and it’s completely legal, for an adult to buy a gun for a child as a gift,” said Nichols. The adult purchaser would undergo a background check if the gun is bought from a federally licensed firearms dealer, such as at a gun store.

https://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/20...made-for-kids-how-young-is-too-young-to-shoot

Genuinely shocked and appauled......

Me too... I really don't know what justification there is for a child having access to a gun let alone owning one for themself, so I'd love it if someone could enlighten me.

In case a burglar entered the premises and parent(s) did not react quickly enough, they'd have the kid as a back up.

There is even a magazine solely aimed at young gun owners, https://www.juniorshooters.net/articles/

Perhaps someone needs to remind the US that the revolution is over, one which it's very foundations are disputed.

 

[bubbles123]

You need guns to defend yourself from the British. Who knows when we may come rampaging through your houses, demanding you pay our taxes.. That's what the writers of the Constitution were thinking of when they wrote it. Not giving guns to 5 year olds as presents.
Speaking as a Brit though I can't say I have much interest in rampaging around America....we've got enough (non gun) related problems of our own!

 

[tina3747]

https://i1148.photobucket.com/albums/o576/tina3747/DEE8E966-1860-4BDF-B81E-B15C478CA53E-254-000000A4035C4BE4.jpg

This seems relevant to the thread, especially with the 5 yr old incident !

I'm not sure if its actually true or not but I believe the US has recently relaxed laws on this product being sold?!

 

[Tiff]

I personally don't understand the need for loaded guns in the house either, but I do want to say that The States are not a bunch of gun toting crazies. Each article I read where a child who had access to a gun and has hurt or killed someone sends my heart deep into the pit of my stomach.

But in those cases I blame the parents for not having better gun storage etc. America is a HUGE country, its unfair to tar every person who lives there with the same brush as these idiots.

JMO of course.

 

[Andypanda6570]

I personally don't understand the need for loaded guns in the house either, but I do want to say that The States are not a bunch of gun toting crazies. Each article I read where a child who had access to a gun and has hurt or killed someone sends my heart deep into the pit of my stomach.

But in those cases I blame the parents for not having better gun storage etc. America is a HUGE country, its unfair to tar every person who lives there with the same brush as these idiots.

JMO of course.

Thank you. I do not own a gun

 

[Piper84]

But in those cases I blame the parents for not having better gun storage etc. America is a HUGE country, its unfair to tar every person who lives there with the same brush as these idiots.

JMO of course.

I don't see anyone making any generalisations, just commenting on individual cases.

Sadly, the fact that these archaic laws apply to everyone means that anyone is able to be involved in a tragedy like the above, whether they are perpetrators or victims.

 

[Andypanda6570]

We all are fighting for more stricter gun laws and so is Obama. They will be passed and a lot sooner than some may think. Not everyone is America owns a gun. I realize it is not most people's norm so it is hard to understand, just like some countries are not my norm, but I wouldn't lump all people into one way of thinking. And no it's NOT as easy to get a gun as some people think. New York has one of the strictest gun laws in the America..

 

[Tiff]

I certainly did see some generalizations. I don't even live in the States nor do I even remotely understand the need for the 2nd amendment. They may not have been intended to come across that way, but as always such is trying to gauge what people are trying to say via text on a screen.

 

[Foogirl]

I personally don't understand the need for loaded guns in the house either, but I do want to say that The States are not a bunch of gun toting crazies.

JMO of course.

I get this, as do most non US citizens. We understand there are many people in the US that hold this view.

But even saying that, is this a majority view in the US? My interpretation of the facts and figures as seen on various reports is that even if it it, it's not an overwhelming majority. Having seen what has happened after the latest school shooting, and reports linked to here about children shooting children, it seems unbelievable that even in the wake of an horrendous situation where young children were shot by someone, there are parents out there who think nothing of giving a loaded gun to a five year old. I'm imagining a house with stairgates and cupboard locks and socket covers to protect a two year old, and yet a loaded weapon is handed to a small child.

We sit and watch from "over the pond" and can't help but think WTF? Our only school shooting happened a few miles from here 16 years ago. Sixteen children all similar ages to those at Sandy Hook were killed along with their teacher. All with guns which were legally held. The reaction in the UK was immense. The question asked was, why does a person need to own a handgun (it was this which caused the most carnage). MPs were lobbied, petitions were signed and less than a year later, all cartridge weapons were banned in the UK. There are a few exceptions which allow sporting weapons to be kept under very strict conditions. None of the terrible things the anti-gun control people said would happen has happened, and there has not been a repeat of this type of incident at a school.

The nation wept after Dunblane and the government put measures in place to help protect our citizens, especially our children. If we have it all wrong about attitudes to guns and gun ownership in the US, how did the same thing not happen there after Sandy Hook?

 

[Tiff]

Those are questions probably better answered by someone who lives in the States.

But I agree, I don't understand the need for loaded weapons in the house either. I just hate seeing generalizations where people just refer to the entire country when its really not a large number of people who are that utterly careless. Why on earth would a police officer who (at a neighborhood party) be dumb enough to leave a loaded weapon on a bed for a 5 year old to get to is beyond me. I also don't understand how people can read or watch these stories and not apply it to themselves if they are careless as well.

Out of the many people who I know who live down there, there's only one who is avidly for the loaded gun in their house. We've had many fights/disagreements about it because I don't get the need. Surely if someone is trying to break into your house you call the police? At least, that was my argument. He laughed at me like I was an idiot then told me that he "hoped" someone broke into my house and threatened my family so then I'd "finally" see the need to arm myself. Needless to say, we are no longer friends ha ha.

I personally find the need to have guns loaded in the house as a means of scaremongering. Bad things are going to happen if you don't, but I see the same types of scaremongering in regards to same sex marriage - society is going to crumble if you allow it.


ETA - It does seem though that gun reform is starting to get more coverage and slowly but surely there might be change/progress. But at times its frustrating as it seems that all the while change is trying to happen, there are more people who dig in their heels and try to keep things the way they are.

Case in point: Canada is doing away with unrestricted gun ownership I believe, I only know this from friends of ours (one was the best man in our wedding!) and while no one in this group has ever really cared about guns, as soon as they found out the laws were changing and you only have until the end of the year to get an unrestricted licence they are going out in DROVES to go get one. Why? Just because they're doing away with it? It doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Noelle610]

I don't agree with this viewpoint, but many pro-gun Americans would explain it this way - School shootings will happen regardless of the legality of guns, because criminals and crazy people will find a way to get a hold of firearms. If the teachers were armed and taught to use their weapon, they could have prevented the attack.

I know it sounds insane, but it's a very, very common argument here.

 

[Tiff]

I don't agree with this viewpoint, but many pro-gun Americans would explain it this way - School shootings will happen regardless of the legality of guns, because criminals and crazy people will find a way to get a hold of firearms. If the teachers were armed and taught to use their weapon, they could have prevented the attack.

I know it sounds insane, but it's a very, very common argument here.

I've heard that argument as well, and I don't agree/understand it either.

 

[Noelle610]

I don't agree with this viewpoint, but many pro-gun Americans would explain it this way - School shootings will happen regardless of the legality of guns, because criminals and crazy people will find a way to get a hold of firearms. If the teachers were armed and taught to use their weapon, they could have prevented the attack.

I know it sounds insane, but it's a very, very common argument here.

I've heard that argument as well, and I don't agree/understand it either.

It's insane. Talk about justification.

I just had lunch with a woman who claims she would shoot an intruder as as soon as he stepped foot in her house with no remourse. I thought this was CRAZY. This response was prompted by another woman telling us about a guy who broke into her home, but he was obviously mentally ill and a drug addict. She felt kind of bad for him. I just think it's really weird that you could kill or want to kill someone without a second thought.

 

[SerenityNow]

I don't know how opinions breakdown re: majority/minority, but the anti-regulation side is extremely passionate and large enough to pretty much control debate.

Any moderate political voice in the US is on shaky ground right now because most congressmen face the biggest threat to re-election from within their own party. They can't do anything risky because the national parties will then back a challenger and they're done.

But I like to think that over time it is the persistent, consistent, rational voice that moves forward while the noisemakers eventually burn out and vanish.

I don't agree with this viewpoint, but many pro-gun Americans would explain it this way - School shootings will happen regardless of the legality of guns, because criminals and crazy people will find a way to get a hold of firearms. If the teachers were armed and taught to use their weapon, they could have prevented the attack.

I know it sounds insane, but it's a very, very common argument here.

though ludicrous, IMO, is actually somewhat... sane?... compared to the sentiment that any gun regulation (any at all!) is inevitably going to lead to the government seizing all privately owned weapons and we will then have nothing with which to defend ourselves against our own tyrannical government.

Delusional to think that our elected government is going to turn our own army against us, delusional to think that our volunteer army would attack their fellow citizens and delusional to think you'd stand a chance in hell fighting them off if they did!

 

[jenniferttc1]

Texas just passed a law that college students can no carry if they have a CHL on campus if the campus allows it. They are also pushing to make the (12 hour) class shorter. Not sure how I feel about it. I'm pro gun and 2nd amendment, we have guns in the house locked and away from our son. We don't go out and kill people. We go out to the family gravel pit and shoot skeet. It's a hobby in texas, just like hunting. Criminals will always have guns, and they will not be registered. Taking away a persons gun that is registered will do no good. And as for the 6 year old shooting his sister, that was a fault on the dumb ass parents giving the child a gun of his own. This should not be allowed. The only gun my son will shoot at that age is a BB gun and only with us.

 

[Randianne]

We sit and watch from "over the pond" and can't help but think WTF? Our only school shooting happened a few miles from here 16 years ago. Sixteen children all similar ages to those at Sandy Hook were killed along with their teacher. All with guns which were legally held. The reaction in the UK was immense. The question asked was, why does a person need to own a handgun (it was this which caused the most carnage). MPs were lobbied, petitions were signed and less than a year later, all cartridge weapons were banned in the UK. There are a few exceptions which allow sporting weapons to be kept under very strict conditions. None of the terrible things the anti-gun control people said would happen has happened, and there has not been a repeat of this type of incident at a school.

The nation wept after Dunblane and the government put measures in place to help protect our citizens, especially our children. If we have it all wrong about attitudes to guns and gun ownership in the US, how did the same thing not happen there after Sandy Hook?

I live in a state that has had one school shooting ever and it was fourteen years ago. We also have some of the highest rates of firearms ownership and concealed carry holders in the nation. We have a very low crime rate and gun death rate. Interestingly enough, it's much lower then the states with strict gun laws.

I think what you forget about the US is that we have at least 300,000,000 guns currently. Do you really think the criminals are going to turn in their guns after a ban? Or are the law abiding people going to turn in their guns and leave only the criminals armed? It's different in the UK because it is very unlikely that your criminals will be armed. Your police officers don't even carry guns. Our police officers would be slaughtered if they didn't carry weapons. We cannot handle things in the same way the UK does.

Those are questions probably better answered by someone who lives in the States.

But I agree, I don't understand the need for loaded weapons in the house either. I just hate seeing generalizations where people just refer to the entire country when its really not a large number of people who are that utterly careless. Why on earth would a police officer who (at a neighborhood party) be dumb enough to leave a loaded weapon on a bed for a 5 year old to get to is beyond me. I also don't understand how people can read or watch these stories and not apply it to themselves if they are careless as well.

Out of the many people who I know who live down there, there's only one who is avidly for the loaded gun in their house. We've had many fights/disagreements about it because I don't get the need. Surely if someone is trying to break into your house you call the police? At least, that was my argument. He laughed at me like I was an idiot then told me that he "hoped" someone broke into my house and threatened my family so then I'd "finally" see the need to arm myself. Needless to say, we are no longer friends ha ha.

I personally find the need to have guns loaded in the house as a means of scaremongering. Bad things are going to happen if you don't, but I see the same types of scaremongering in regards to same sex marriage - society is going to crumble if you allow it.

I really am not trying to be patronizing, but real life break ins are not like the movies. You don't have time to run, hide and call the police when it takes a criminal less then a minute to break into your house. Your body goes into fight or flight mode and the adrenaline makes you shaky and muddles your thought process. When you call the police, you could easily be overheard and alert an intruder to your location. And then what do you do? Leave your kids in their rooms and hope for the best? Or run to them and let the intruder know exactly where you are?

The average response time to a 911 call in my area is nine minutes. In nine minutes, someone could break into my house and have time to rape and murder me or my daughter.

I do keep one loaded weapon in the house. The rest are stored separately from their ammunition. It is far away from my daughter's reach and has a trigger lock on it. My husband and I are former military and we know how to keep a gun safely. It's loaded because loading a gun takes time and precision. Again, the average break in takes less then sixty seconds. I would rather spend that sixty seconds calling the police and running to my daughter's room to protect her then waste it loading a gun.

I disagree that it's scaremongering to keep a loaded weapon. It's hard to imagine for most people, but a break in can happen to you. I'm not afraid because if someone does break in, I can protect my daughter. Our fate will not be decided by the response time of a busy police department. It's taking an active approach to safety rather then a passive one. To me, it's no different then keeping a fire extinguisher instead of relying on the response time of the fire department. I hope I never have to fire a gun in self defense, but I will if I have to.

I realize people are going to have issues with my stance, but I have been on the wrong end of a gun. It took seven minutes to get a police officer to us. I'm only alive because that woman didn't really want to kill us. If she had, I wouldn't be here typing this because there was nothing I could have done about it. You cannot rely on the police department to save you.

Trust me, those of us who own guns responsibly hate the irresponsible ones as much as you do. How would you feel if someone wanted to take away your car because someone else drove drunk? It's infuriating.

Delusional to think that our elected government is going to turn our own army against us, delusional to think that our volunteer army would attack their fellow citizens and delusional to think you'd stand a chance in hell fighting them off if they did!

I respectfully disagree. It is human nature to be corrupted by power. There are examples of that everywhere.

Look at the Benghazi situation. Anyone who questioned the official story after it happened was labeled a conspiracy theorist. Now we know they were right. The Obama administration didn't attack Americans, it just watched them die even though they could have stopped it. Then they made up a lie to cover their trail. Why would you trust a government that cares more about it's reputation then it's citizens to do the right thing?

I agree that America's army wouldn't turn on it's citizens. For the most part. The ground soldiers are so trained to obey orders that some of them have stopped questioning their superiors and would do it just because someone of a higher rank told them to.

People who throw out crazy theories about Obama being the antichrist are not the same as those who question the government. Yet for some reason, we all get lumped into one group. I don't agree with a lot of Obama's policies, but he's not out to get us.

I think if you truly want to understand the gun culture, you need to do research and talk to us. Jumping to conclusions won't help either side. There are very legitimate reasons for owning guns, and banning them is an awful idea unless you want to see another American civil war and up the death toll into the millions.