Weapons. Yes or No? Why?

[Sarahkka]

Europeans and Canadians have always disagreed with Americans on primarily two things:
heath insurance and guns. As much as we are alike (we all are fourtunate enough to live in constitutional democracies) I doubt we will ever come to agreement on these issues. I believe in my constitutial right to bear arms, and for those of you in disagreement (mostly not from US) i would like you to know that i am a very kind person who is simply upholding my rights as an American. For that only, do not be so disrespectful about my beliefs on why someone should own a gun in the USA as i do not believe in 100% of your laws either but at least i have the tolerance to understand we all grew up differently. Each and every one of our experiences (both good and bad) have shaped our attitudes and opionions. I'm sorry if you think a gun is the worst thing to own because it's so dangerous. Stab wounds occur for times more than gunshot wounds in the US. So tell me, those that think guns are so bad, are you going to tell me next that it's wrong to keep knives in my home? You must not have much to worry about if all you are trying to do is change the way honest, hardworking, law abiding citizens choose to live.

Are all gun related crimes in the US committed by already convicted criminals? Are all gun related crimes in the US committed by people who hold firearms illegally?

MOST gun realated crimes in the US are commited by people who use illegal firearms and yes, some are already criminals. If you are not a convicted criminal or have any warrants, or not mentally unstable you can obtain a firearm legally - you get fingerprinted, picture taken, require to take classes, etc. The unfortuante thing is there are bad people out there that do not care about the law and use guns to do horrible things. Because of those people, us law abiding citizens need a way to protect ourselves. Sure, i wish no one had a gun but that is not ever going to happen. Bad people are going to have them and good people should have a right to protect ourselves. All these gun control laws do is take more rights away from resposible citizens because criminals do not care about breaking the law. They already do that!

I feel that the distinction you are making here between criminals and law abiding citizens is a fallacy though. Everyone is a law abiding citizen by default until they commit a crime and become a criminal. It isn't an 'us' against the 'bad people' situation. Anyone is capable of committing a crime under the right circumstances and when everyone has a weapon then that, to me, is the danger. I don't need to be convinced that many people will own a gun and never use it, I accept that, but we can't keep distinguishing between 'us' and 'them' in this way - it isn't realistic.

I'd love to see stats on how many gun related deaths are caused by known criminals and how many are caused by those in legal possession of a gun.

I completely agree with this. Nancy Lanza was a law-abiding citizen, as was her son Adam prior to the moment he murdered 27 people. Seung-Hui Cho was a law-abiding citizen until he committed mass-murder at Virginia Tech (using a gun he, interestingly enough, legally purchased despite having a court-ordered psychiatric evaluation in 2005 which diagnosed him as mentally ill and unstable). These are just two examples of the many law-abiding citizens who crossed the line into insanity and took their weapons with them.

While I'm on the fence about gun control, I've always found the argument of "the best way to fight gun violence is to better arm people" to be a bit of a head-scratcher.

This. Exactly.

 

[SerenityNow]

https://theacru.org/acru/harvard_study_gun_control_is_counterproductive/

Above is a study by harvard on gun control.

Just a few points below from the study.....

The findings of two criminologists - Prof. Don Kates and Prof. Gary Mauser - in their exhaustive study of American and European gun laws and violence rates, are telling:

Nations with stringent anti-gun laws generally have substantially higher murder rates than those that do not. The study found that the nine European nations with the lowest rates of gun ownership (5,000 or fewer guns per 100,000 population) have a combined murder rate three times higher than that of the nine nations with the highest rates of gun ownership (at least 15,000 guns per 100,000 population).
-Norway has the highest rate of gun ownership in Western Europe, yet possesses the lowest murder rate
-Sweden and Denmark are two more examples of nations with high murder rates but few guns.

So, I just read the actual article (it isn't a study it is a review) and the countries they cited as having high homicide rates along with strict gun laws were Russia, Estonia, Ukraine, Latvia, and Lithuania. Their data was from the mid-1990s.

Hmmm, now what else was happening in those countries then.... Oh yeah, total political and economic upheaval!

Hardly comparing apples to apples there.

 

[pinklightbulb]

I will never understand the "right to bear arms" thing.... One of those "just don't get it" notions for me. That isn't to say there aren't people who feel strongly about it. There are people who feel just as strongly against it... I'm one of them. It's an interesting debate, though.

 

[Noodlebear]

This is a really interesting topic, I've talked about it with my OH a few times recently because of the school shooting. He goes airsofting (a group of grown men running around with over sized toy guns shooting eachother) and he has about 6 of them in the house I think. They're not real guns but even to keep them over here in the UK he has to have a license of sorts and has his own serial number that he has to provide when he buys them because they are powerful and LOOK real. The gun culture here and in the US is soooo different it's astounding.

I don't think I could move from here to there because it'd be too frightening to me lol. But I think it's a bit far to say that law abiding citizens (or whatever) don't need to have guns....so all the bad guys will have them but the good guys will have to be unarmed? I think the only way to get a hold of the dangers in any country where it's not uncommon to keep guns would be to request that people hand theirs over and raid each and every household - not very realistic.

 

[jenniferttc1]

We have guns for protection, I'll be damned if someone comes in my home and pulls a gun out of me or my family and I can't do anything back. We live in the south in texas, pretty much everyone has a gun in the home. I'm currently looking up for a new small gun to put in my bag and a licenses. After reading a mother watched her 13 MONTH old get shot in the face Thursday, no way in hell would I go down without a fight. I cherish human life, and I don't believe in killing a person, they have a family....but you mess with MY family, and show a treat to my son, it wouldn't phase me twice.

 

[steph.]

Anyone seen the news about the 4 year old that accidently shot and killed his 6 year old neighbour? And the other 4 year old who accidently shot and killed a woman? I cant understand how people can continue to say theres no problem with having guns in the house, specially around kids. Yes you might keep it safe and locked up , as i am sure these families did, but just one slip up can be fatal. So many innocent lives have been wasted due to lax gun laws. Enough is enough. Something has to change.

https://www.clarionledger.com/viewa...-N-J-boy-accidentally-shoots-neighbor-6-face-

https://www.clarionledger.com/viewart/20130409/NEWS03/304090041/Boy-4-accidentally-kills-wife-deputy

 

[JessPape]

My husband is a hunter we have over 10 guns (rifles, shot guns, air guns) in our home. With proper management and being responsible I don't see this as an issue. I like nowing that if I needed them in a life or death situation I know how to use them.

Our children will be raised to use them too, BUT, they will not have the comination no keys to unlock the trigger locks. We have our guns in a gun safe in our bedroom, in a locked closet. Ammo is locked in a case under the bed.

guns are not weapons, guns are tools. Our guns supply us dinner for a year.

 

[JessPape]

Well my OH plays baseball so we have bats, and obviously we have knives, but neither for the purpose of being used as weapons.

I will never have a gun in my home.

It's not very common here to have guns in the home so I would think it a bit odd if a family member or friend had a gun in their home for protection. The only person I've ever known that carried a gun was a friend of a friend who was nearly stabbed to death during a drug deal...sooo, yeah.

Of course I understand that it's much different in the States especially, and that not everyone who carries is a gun is living a life of danger. That's just where my head goes!

In vancover 1 in 10 homes have at least 1 rifle... LOL you would be surprised at home many homes in Canada have guns.

 

[JessPape]

Its going to need to start with a mass removal of guns from American society but how will that be done?

I honestly don't think that this could be done without starting a massive revolt...I honestly think there would be civil war if the government attempted to remove all guns, unless it was done over the course of decades like a previous poster suggested. Even then, I'm not sure.

Forgot to add - head members from gun associations/companies should not be allowed to sit in the senate or influence government! I think it's madness.

I don't mean to laugh at you, but do you realize just how much lobbyists from EVERY special interest group/industry influence the government? There is absolutely no impartiality, morality, or fairness in the government, everyone is pushing their own agenda. It really all depends on which group is willing to spend the most money to get people to vote in their favor. I agree that it's sick.

Because of the mass amount of people that hunt, trap and use guns for sports, this would cause a huge hassle. If they went about it I could see a LOT Of people going on shooting rampages. You got to remember, the people that go out and shoot up schools (as bad as it is) is a very small minority of the good people that own guns and follow good safety measures.

Drunks kill more people driving than, guns. Should we ban cars? because they are being used as the weapon?

Drugs kill people every day, should we get rid of drugs?

 

[JessPape]

Its going to need to start with a mass removal of guns from American society but how will that be done?

I honestly don't think that this could be done without starting a massive revolt...I honestly think there would be civil war if the government attempted to remove all guns, unless it was done over the course of decades like a previous poster suggested. Even then, I'm not sure.

Forgot to add - head members from gun associations/companies should not be allowed to sit in the senate or influence government! I think it's madness.

I don't mean to laugh at you, but do you realize just how much lobbyists from EVERY special interest group/industry influence the government? There is absolutely no impartiality, morality, or fairness in the government, everyone is pushing their own agenda. It really all depends on which group is willing to spend the most money to get people to vote in their favor. I agree that it's sick.

Gun control is not going to cause a civil war. Seriously? You equate the right to pack a handgun with something as ethically huge as abolition?
It is totally possible to make this change, and within a few decades or less. Bigger things have already been achieved.

I personally don't equate gun control with abolition, but I know many people that do, and I truly believe that it could come to war if the government decided to confiscate all guns at once. I think a very gradual change could potentially be successful in the long run, but there is a lot of tension in the US surrounding many of the recent and upcoming changes in laws and government, and I fear it's a powder keg. A sudden sweeping federal gun control law could be the match.

A good example of this, is the gun shows that happened after sandy hook and how fast ammo and guns where flying off the shelves afterwards when the talks about new gun laws/banning guns could come in effect. We didn't see or hear much about this in Canada, but in some states it was impossible to buy ammo or guns because they were sold that quick. Why? because people knew that getting rid of guns already owned is a hard thing to do, and a very timely matter. But guess what? there are more gun owners are the US that would fight it, that getting rid of guns in the US would never happen.

 

[xemmax]

Its going to need to start with a mass removal of guns from American society but how will that be done?

I honestly don't think that this could be done without starting a massive revolt...I honestly think there would be civil war if the government attempted to remove all guns, unless it was done over the course of decades like a previous poster suggested. Even then, I'm not sure.

Forgot to add - head members from gun associations/companies should not be allowed to sit in the senate or influence government! I think it's madness.

I don't mean to laugh at you, but do you realize just how much lobbyists from EVERY special interest group/industry influence the government? There is absolutely no impartiality, morality, or fairness in the government, everyone is pushing their own agenda. It really all depends on which group is willing to spend the most money to get people to vote in their favor. I agree that it's sick.

Because of the mass amount of people that hunt, trap and use guns for sports, this would cause a huge hassle. If they went about it I could see a LOT Of people going on shooting rampages. You got to remember, the people that go out and shoot up schools (as bad as it is) is a very small minority of the good people that own guns and follow good safety measures.

Drunks kill more people driving than, guns. Should we ban cars? because they are being used as the weapon?

Drugs kill people every day, should we get rid of drugs?

Firstly these activities are both illegal, so you are attempting to defend the safety and legality of gun ownership by comparisons to illegal activities.

Secondly if you don't hunt, if you live in a city, then for what practical reason do you require a gun besides as a potential weapon? Cars may be misused but ultimately they have a practical function, they are not fundamentally a weapon, so I can't see the comparison.

 

[Foogirl]

Totally agree Emma, it's such a bogus argument.

But hey, I can play that game. Cars are a weapon and in the wrong hands can kill. So what do we do about that, ban cars? No, we regulate them. Everyone must be medically fit to drive, they must have good eyesight, undergo rigorous training and hold a licence which is taken away if you do wrong. The cars themselves must have numerous safety features to protect the users, and the public at large, their speed is regulated both by manufacturers and the law. You can't operate one if you are under the influence of drugs or alcohol and must reach a certain age before you go anywhere near the drivers seat on a public highway. We don't ban them, we recognise the risk and make sensible laws to mitigate that risk. The US is tearing their hair out to work out what to do to make cars safer for young drivers. And yet the US sees no point in doing the same for the gun, which is just as dangerous to teenagers.

Guns have their place in most societies, and different places in different societies. An outright ban would be unworkable. But for goodness sakes, lets have more regulatin of them and stop this nonsense of selling automatic weapons which no civilian will ever need, other than for killing a lot of other people in one go.

 

[JessPape]

Its going to need to start with a mass removal of guns from American society but how will that be done?

I honestly don't think that this could be done without starting a massive revolt...I honestly think there would be civil war if the government attempted to remove all guns, unless it was done over the course of decades like a previous poster suggested. Even then, I'm not sure.

Forgot to add - head members from gun associations/companies should not be allowed to sit in the senate or influence government! I think it's madness.

I don't mean to laugh at you, but do you realize just how much lobbyists from EVERY special interest group/industry influence the government? There is absolutely no impartiality, morality, or fairness in the government, everyone is pushing their own agenda. It really all depends on which group is willing to spend the most money to get people to vote in their favor. I agree that it's sick.

Because of the mass amount of people that hunt, trap and use guns for sports, this would cause a huge hassle. If they went about it I could see a LOT Of people going on shooting rampages. You got to remember, the people that go out and shoot up schools (as bad as it is) is a very small minority of the good people that own guns and follow good safety measures.

Drunks kill more people driving than, guns. Should we ban cars? because they are being used as the weapon?

Drugs kill people every day, should we get rid of drugs?

Firstly these activities are both illegal, so you are attempting to defend the safety and legality of gun ownership by comparisons to illegal activities.

Secondly if you don't hunt, if you live in a city, then for what practical reason do you require a gun besides as a potential weapon? Cars may be misused but ultimately they have a practical function, they are not fundamentally a weapon, so I can't see the comparison.

That's not what i'm saying at all...

 

[staralfur]

Well my OH plays baseball so we have bats, and obviously we have knives, but neither for the purpose of being used as weapons.

I will never have a gun in my home.

It's not very common here to have guns in the home so I would think it a bit odd if a family member or friend had a gun in their home for protection. The only person I've ever known that carried a gun was a friend of a friend who was nearly stabbed to death during a drug deal...sooo, yeah.

Of course I understand that it's much different in the States especially, and that not everyone who carries is a gun is living a life of danger. That's just where my head goes!

In vancover 1 in 10 homes have at least 1 rifle... LOL you would be surprised at home many homes in Canada have guns.

Where did you get that stat from?

 

[xemmax]

Its going to need to start with a mass removal of guns from American society but how will that be done?

I honestly don't think that this could be done without starting a massive revolt...I honestly think there would be civil war if the government attempted to remove all guns, unless it was done over the course of decades like a previous poster suggested. Even then, I'm not sure.

Forgot to add - head members from gun associations/companies should not be allowed to sit in the senate or influence government! I think it's madness.

I don't mean to laugh at you, but do you realize just how much lobbyists from EVERY special interest group/industry influence the government? There is absolutely no impartiality, morality, or fairness in the government, everyone is pushing their own agenda. It really all depends on which group is willing to spend the most money to get people to vote in their favor. I agree that it's sick.

Because of the mass amount of people that hunt, trap and use guns for sports, this would cause a huge hassle. If they went about it I could see a LOT Of people going on shooting rampages. You got to remember, the people that go out and shoot up schools (as bad as it is) is a very small minority of the good people that own guns and follow good safety measures.

Drunks kill more people driving than, guns. Should we ban cars? because they are being used as the weapon?

Drugs kill people every day, should we get rid of drugs?

Firstly these activities are both illegal, so you are attempting to defend the safety and legality of gun ownership by comparisons to illegal activities.

Secondly if you don't hunt, if you live in a city, then for what practical reason do you require a gun besides as a potential weapon? Cars may be misused but ultimately they have a practical function, they are not fundamentally a weapon, so I can't see the comparison.

That's not what i'm saying at all...

That's how I read it; feel free to clarify if I misread.

 

[TriChick]

Its going to need to start with a mass removal of guns from American society but how will that be done?

I honestly don't think that this could be done without starting a massive revolt...I honestly think there would be civil war if the government attempted to remove all guns, unless it was done over the course of decades like a previous poster suggested. Even then, I'm not sure.

Forgot to add - head members from gun associations/companies should not be allowed to sit in the senate or influence government! I think it's madness.

I don't mean to laugh at you, but do you realize just how much lobbyists from EVERY special interest group/industry influence the government? There is absolutely no impartiality, morality, or fairness in the government, everyone is pushing their own agenda. It really all depends on which group is willing to spend the most money to get people to vote in their favor. I agree that it's sick.

Because of the mass amount of people that hunt, trap and use guns for sports, this would cause a huge hassle. If they went about it I could see a LOT Of people going on shooting rampages. You got to remember, the people that go out and shoot up schools (as bad as it is) is a very small minority of the good people that own guns and follow good safety measures.

Drunks kill more people driving than, guns. Should we ban cars? because they are being used as the weapon?

Drugs kill people every day, should we get rid of drugs?

Firstly these activities are both illegal, so you are attempting to defend the safety and legality of gun ownership by comparisons to illegal activities.

Secondly if you don't hunt, if you live in a city, then for what practical reason do you require a gun besides as a potential weapon? Cars may be misused but ultimately they have a practical function, they are not fundamentally a weapon, so I can't see the comparison.

That's not what i'm saying at all...

That's how I read it; feel free to clarify if I misread.

That's how I read it as well, and have heard this argument repeatedly in the protection of the 2nd Amendment.

In a word? Yes. We should ban drugs, and have.

 

[TriChick]

Interestingly enough, if you Google "Vancouver gun statistics" the first three hits that pop up discuss the rise in gun violence in Vancouver over the past few years. All three go on to mention that the vast majority of weapons are coming from the US.

 

[Piper84]

In the past three days, three boys have apparently shot dead their sisters https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22386105

It seems like some gun sellers even target children with special kids' guns. Not toy guns, actual guns for children to use, marketed as "my first rifle" https://keystonesportingarmsllc.com/

At what point does the number of people being killed today, among them children, become more important than a pioneer and guerilla war era statute?

 

[Pearls18]

In the past three days, three boys have apparently shot dead their sisters https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22386105

It seems like some gun sellers even target children with special kids' guns. Not toy guns, actual guns for children to use, marketed as "my first rifle" https://keystonesportingarmsllc.com/

At what point does the number of people being killed today, among them children, become more important than a pioneer and guerilla war era statute?

They said on the news that the 5 year old boy who shot his sister in Kentucky was given a rifle...it was his own gun....what the heck?? I'm not even sure if I'm comfortable with the idea of DS playing with pretend guns at 5, a real rifle?! His parents "didn't think it was loaded".......I hope the constitution gives them comfort through the grief of losing their daughter.

 

[xemmax]

In the past three days, three boys have apparently shot dead their sisters https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22386105

It seems like some gun sellers even target children with special kids' guns. Not toy guns, actual guns for children to use, marketed as "my first rifle" https://keystonesportingarmsllc.com/

At what point does the number of people being killed today, among them children, become more important than a pioneer and guerilla war era statute?

I saw the report of the five year old shooting his sister with his own gun. It reads like a hoax... a five year old, with his own gun? Poor little girl, and poor little boy... how will he ever live with what he has done? How will his parents ever live with what they allowed him to do?

Whatever made them think their five year old would need a gun? How is it legal?