What If There Was No Formula?

[Piper84]

How would a wet nurse have helped?

Has anyone bothered to mention infant mortality rates before formula existed?

A wet nurse would have fed your child.

Infant mortality rates weren't higher because of a lack of formula, but almost completely down to childhood diseases with no vaccinations, antibiotics or penicillin, unhygienic living conditions and other socioeconomic factors.

If there was one available. Or if you were wealthy enough to afford one. If there wasn't you made do- you fed your baby milk from another species or you fed them pap- a mix of flour and water or bread and water and you dealt with a child that was "sickly" and probably would not make it to 5 years of age. To say that nutrition has no part in childhood health is a bit short-sighted, if nutrition has no part in childhood mortality then breastfeeding would not have made a difference either.

Mortality rates were higher because of all the things you mentioned. But they were certainly higher because there was not a suitable, readily available alternate. Formula is a life saver. That's why it was invented, to save babies lives. The whole "formula companies are bad because they are all about profits" irritates me- i don't see the same vitriol toward medela, they are out for profits with their pumps and their supplementary feeding systems, and the manufactors of nipples pads and creams and boppy pillows are out to make a buck out of breastfeeding just as much as the formula manufacturers. We live in capitalist system. Everything we buy benefits a company and profits. Just because one is warm and fuzzy and the other stigmatised doesn't made the end result any different.

I'm not sure where you think I said "nutrition has no part in childhood health", but it kind of muddies the water, don't you think?

I also think it's inaccurate to make a corellation between infant mortality rates improving in any significant way with the advent of formula. In fact it's quite the opposite in a lot of countries if you bother to look beyond your own borders.

It's also inaccurate to suggest that formula is "readily available" in terms of price. That stuff is expensive and for the vast majority, it's not safely available.

No-one is denying that formula is a lifesaver in some situations, but that doesn't mean we're not allowed to question the way it's marketed. I put trust in life-saving antibiotics because the state decides which ones to buy and allow doctors to prescribe, with nothing to do with profit. Companies whose most important target is profit, and this has always been the case for formula companies, are suspicious in general and up for debate, no matter what they market and especially if what they market is what we are feeding our newborns.

The whole "don't criticise formula companies because they provide lifesaving nutrition" line irritates me, as does the "we live in a capitalist system" argument. You're basically saying "don't question anything because there's nothing to be done about it". You may be happy in the knowledge that you and your immediate family are doing just fine, but some people get worked up about what these supposedly god-like companies are up to and the effect they have on other human beings, and that is our right, if we're lucky enough to live in a democracy

 

[KiwiMOM]

I just wanted to throw it out there that infant mortality has been discussed in this thread. It once literally was a discussion about what the world would be like without formula. Good and bad.

For everyone saying wet nurses would be too expensive, etc. I also just wanted to point out that I donated a whole bunch of milk for free before I needed to use it myself and would have no issue doing that, or feeding another child in the future (or in a formulaless world )

 

[Piper84]

It seems like China is suffering a shortage of formula, as parents prefer to buy imported products which are now being restricted: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22088977

It's interesting to see that the government's reaction is not to promote breastfeeding more, but to try and improve food safety standards in Chinese products. Maybe a mixture of both would help more?

 

[Pearls18]

Just to add, the concept of a wet nurse was not just for the rich, in the past especially when there were a lot more children being born in families and when extended families were living under one roof or in closer proximity it was commonplace for different female members to feed different babies, especially if there were problems (although as I assume has been discussed I imagine BF success rates were much higher back then but this is speculation) I know today people might be a little 'grossed' out by this but that's what has become of our society, but back them BF was so normal I doubt it was seen as any different to giving someone else's baby a bottle. So 'wet nurses' might have been for the rich, but the concept of feeding another one's child most definitely was not.

(Sorry if this has been said, but the post above mentioned wet nurses for the rich)

 

[MommyJogger]

And in small areas where bf is almost completely normalized, you still very much get the 'wet nurse effect'. Many times, I've seen busy Amish mothers pass their babies to another lactating female to nurse. I've also personally nursed an Amish baby when no one else was available at a buggy breakdown and I provide pumped bm and have nursed for the twins of a couple who are close to us. My son had his latch checked and we learned how to correct it (mild upper lip tie) by nursing from our next door neighbor. Wet nursing would happen regardless of income, especially in a world where lactating mothers wouldn't just fob it off with "she can just ff, no big deal".

 

[Guppy051708]

And in small areas where bf is almost completely normalized, you still very much get the 'wet nurse effect'. Many times, I've seen busy Amish mothers pass their babies to another lactating female to nurse. I've also personally nursed an Amish baby when no one else was available at a buggy breakdown and I provide pumped bm and have nursed for the twins of a couple who are close to us. My son had his latch checked and we learned how to correct it (mild upper lip tie) by nursing from our next door neighbor. Wet nursing would happen regardless of income, especially in a world where lactating mothers wouldn't just fob it off with "she can just ff, no big deal".

Totally OT, but i used to live in STate College!!! GO you!!! I miss that place! I grew up around those parts and then relocated...anyways, i had to look to see where you were from when you mentioned the Amish. The ppl here (New Hampshire) look at me like im crazy when i talk about them LOL

 

[babies7777]

Thats really interesting and great! im curious, do the babies react differently like, who are u feeding me, your not my momma, or just take the boob happily?

And in small areas where bf is almost completely normalized, you still very much get the 'wet nurse effect'. Many times, I've seen busy Amish mothers pass their babies to another lactating female to nurse. I've also personally nursed an Amish baby when no one else was available at a buggy breakdown and I provide pumped bm and have nursed for the twins of a couple who are close to us. My son had his latch checked and we learned how to correct it (mild upper lip tie) by nursing from our next door neighbor. Wet nursing would happen regardless of income, especially in a world where lactating mothers wouldn't just fob it off with "she can just ff, no big deal".

 

[Foogirl]

Thats really interesting and great! im curious, do the babies react differently like, who are u feeding me, your not my momma, or just take the boob happily?

Babies just want food. I'm not sure any are bothered by where it co es from. To me it's no different to a friend giving a baby a bottle. I think for most who wouldn't be keen on doing it, it's because of their own feelings watching someone else breastfeed their child.

 

[MommyJogger]

Thats really interesting and great! im curious, do the babies react differently like, who are u feeding me, your not my momma, or just take the boob happily?

And in small areas where bf is almost completely normalized, you still very much get the 'wet nurse effect'. Many times, I've seen busy Amish mothers pass their babies to another lactating female to nurse. I've also personally nursed an Amish baby when no one else was available at a buggy breakdown and I provide pumped bm and have nursed for the twins of a couple who are close to us. My son had his latch checked and we learned how to correct it (mild upper lip tie) by nursing from our next door neighbor. Wet nursing would happen regardless of income, especially in a world where lactating mothers wouldn't just fob it off with "she can just ff, no big deal".

The Amish baby I fed was reeeeealy interested in me in general, but I don't know whether it was because I was different or because they were just like that when nursing. I've never experienced or seen a baby refuse any boob that smelled like milk. My own son will refuse a bottle, but will try to pull the tops off other lactating women.

 

[babies7777]

Thanks for replying, its rare where i live currently for women to bf let alone feed another child too.

Thats really interesting and great! im curious, do the babies react differently like, who are u feeding me, your not my momma, or just take the boob happily?

And in small areas where bf is almost completely normalized, you still very much get the 'wet nurse effect'. Many times, I've seen busy Amish mothers pass their babies to another lactating female to nurse. I've also personally nursed an Amish baby when no one else was available at a buggy breakdown and I provide pumped bm and have nursed for the twins of a couple who are close to us. My son had his latch checked and we learned how to correct it (mild upper lip tie) by nursing from our next door neighbor. Wet nursing would happen regardless of income, especially in a world where lactating mothers wouldn't just fob it off with "she can just ff, no big deal".

The Amish baby I fed was reeeeealy interested in me in general, but I don't know whether it was because I was different or because they were just like that when nursing. I've never experienced or seen a baby refuse any boob that smelled like milk. My own son will refuse a bottle, but will try to pull the tops off other lactating women.

 

[pinklightbulb]

Both my sons also refused a bottle but would try to latch onto breasts through tops, whether the woman had milk or not, lol.

 

[Foogirl]

Abby tried to latch on to my husband once!

 

[steph.]

I left my dd with my sister when she was 4 months old for about 3 hours. I left a bottle (which she was never keen on) and told my sister in an emergency to try giving her her boob as she was still breastfeeding my niece. All went smoothly until about 30 minutes before i got back. She started SCREAMING and wouldnt stop. My sis tried the bottle, which just made her scream louder. So she got her boob out. But apparently Sophia just gave her a look like what do you think you are doing? She was still screaming when i got back and went straight for my boobs.

Probably if they are younger they wouldnt mind though.

 

[juicyfruity]

for prems like my DD donor milk would be put down her tube in this 'scenario'. after we left nicu i had such an oversupply i donated my milk, it was clear in my maternity records i had no diseases etc it was a fairly easy procedure and I see pics of the lil boy all the time growing big and strong

 

[meli1981]

for prems like my DD donor milk would be put down her tube in this 'scenario'. after we left nicu i had such an oversupply i donated my milk, it was clear in my maternity records i had no diseases etc it was a fairly easy procedure and I see pics of the lil boy all the time growing big and strong

That is amazing you can see the boy youre helping!

 

[Emerald87]

I donate privately to a Mum who cannot BF due to cancer; I suppose this was her "alternative" to formula. I also donate to the NICU and they use human milk in place of formula to avoid complications such as NEC.

Haven't fed any other babies, apart from my own, directly, though!

 

[beanzz]

I wish I'd donated, I miss breastfeeding and would have loved to help someone out