White Poppies?

[marley2580]

Of course not, but I would do everything in my power to prevent it ever getting to that stage. There's a big difference between violence and self defence - if someone attacked me I would defend myself long enough to try and get away..

And to take issue with what Smokey and red poppy said, many pacifists were conscientious objectors and did not sit back and do nothing - they drove ambulances etc on the front line, they simply refused to engage in violence. You say pacifism doesn't end wars, but neither does violence.

Ok, the money from white poppies doesn't go to help veterans etc, but it does go towards campaigning for peace, what's wrong with that?

 

[smokey]

Of course not, but I would do everything in my power to prevent it ever getting to that stage. There's a big difference between violence and self defence - if someone attacked me I would defend myself long enough to try and get away..And to take issue with what Smokey and red poppy said, many pacifists were conscientious objectors and did not sit back and do nothing - they drove ambulances etc on the front line, they simply refused to engage in violence. You say pacifism doesn't end wars, but neither does violence.

Ok, the money from white poppies doesn't go to help veterans etc, but it does go towards campaigning for peace, what's wrong with that?

But thats mostly what it was all about (not more modern wars because they are on an agenda all of their own) but its about protecting countries that couldnt defend themselves and in the long run about protecting their own country and families because where do you think they would have headed next? they where already trying it with all the bombings.

You say you would protect your own family if you heard about someone else fighting to protect someone and dieing or getting injured would you respect them for doing something they belived in or say they arnt worth rembering or thinking about because they used violance, there isnt much differance just on a much larger scale

Rememberance day is also about remembering thousands of nurses and medics from the red cross, mechanics, drivers, survaurs, communications, construction, translators that where also killed, injured or came back to a jobless life.
Does that mean your ok to remember them because they didnt pick a gun up?

 

[smokey]

Any way I dont think this is all about if you belive in war or not I think the issue is more about they shouldnt piggy back on another charity to make thier money, they should have a symbol, aggenda, date, message of their own then their cause would be heard alot more and be more benaficial rather then coming across as disrespectfull and against what the day is all about because that is how it comes across to most people.
If they realy want to do some good then do it on their own merits not hiding behind something else.

 

[Midnight_Fairy]

I guess I just do what my family has always done. My OH studys WW2 and its an important part of my history and my children know alot about it already. The Red poppy is what we have always worn x

 

[smokey]

The red poppy symbolises remembrance of all those who laid down their lives to defend this country and our way of life. The white poppy symbolises remembrance of EVERYONE that died as a result of conflict and calls for an end to armed conflict. How does that make it inappropriate to wear on remembrance sunday?

I am proud to call myself a pacifist, and I work towards preventing violence. If that means challenging certain attitudes and conventions, then so be it.

Sorry to have to bring this back up again but you pretty much said it here yourself that is what 11th novemember is all about that and to raise money for the families of those that died and the ones still left behind with poor health because of it.
Wearing a white poppy on this day ( I use the term on this day but realy refer to the whole event) takes charity money away from the purpose remembrance day was intended and in doing so is disrespectfull to the intentions of it.
Sales from white popys only go to the admin costs of running a website nothing actualy constructive

 

[marley2580]

The red poppy symbolises remembrance of all those who laid down their lives to defend this country and our way of life. The white poppy symbolises remembrance of EVERYONE that died as a result of conflict and calls for an end to armed conflict. How does that make it inappropriate to wear on remembrance sunday?

I am proud to call myself a pacifist, and I work towards preventing violence. If that means challenging certain attitudes and conventions, then so be it.

Sorry to have to bring this back up again but you pretty much said it here yourself that is what 11th novemember is all about that and to raise money for the families of those that died and the ones still left behind with poor health because of it.
Wearing a white poppy on this day ( I use the term on this day but realy refer to the whole event) takes charity money away from the purpose remembrance day was intended and in doing so is disrespectfull to the intentions of it.
Sales from white popys only go to the admin costs of running a website nothing actualy constructive

Actually, the people that wear a white poppy are highly unlikely to ever buy a red poppy anyway, so that's unlikely to be true. The white poppy remembers everyone that died as a result of conflict - soldiers, conscientious objectors, civilians etc. When better to do that than on remembrance day? I honestly don't see why it's a problem, but I respect that you feel it is.

 

[Jody R]

The red poppy symbolises remembrance of all those who laid down their lives to defend this country and our way of life. The white poppy symbolises remembrance of EVERYONE that died as a result of conflict and calls for an end to armed conflict. How does that make it inappropriate to wear on remembrance sunday?

I am proud to call myself a pacifist, and I work towards preventing violence. If that means challenging certain attitudes and conventions, then so be it.

Sorry to have to bring this back up again but you pretty much said it here yourself that is what 11th novemember is all about that and to raise money for the families of those that died and the ones still left behind with poor health because of it.
Wearing a white poppy on this day ( I use the term on this day but realy refer to the whole event) takes charity money away from the purpose remembrance day was intended and in doing so is disrespectfull to the intentions of it.
Sales from white popys only go to the admin costs of running a website nothing actualy constructive

Actually, the people that wear a white poppy are highly unlikely to ever buy a red poppy anyway, so that's unlikely to be true. The white poppy remembers everyone that died as a result of conflict - soldiers, conscientious objectors, civilians etc. When better to do that than on remembrance day? I honestly don't see why it's a problem, but I respect that you feel it is.

Because Rememberence Day is on November 11th/Rememberence Sunday was chosen to wear the red poppies to mark the end of WW1, yet another reason why the red poppy doesn't signify war, it marks the end of "the war to end all wars."

The red poppies were introduced with the very best of intentions to help those who needed help following the war and remember those who were lost. It's wrong for a different organisation with different intentions to hijack the day for their own purposes when there are so many other dates that could justifiably be used and gain them more support.

 

[smokey]

But surely you must agree that there are other ways to go about it on their own merits then it would bring more awareness to its cause other then off the backs of another organisation and wouldnt create this divide.

As I have said before this is from their own website and how they advertise the sale of their poppy

"Each year our white poppies project challenge the war-condoning values of traditional remembrance ceremonies."

To lay one of those at a war mamorial on remembrance day is a slap in the face saying "well you shouldnt have gone to war then"
Why delibratly lay something that means you dont agree with what happened at a war mamorial on that day and why encourage people to do so that is delibratly asking for trouble.

Also to raise money and then keep it all is just wrong to me

 

[Midnight_Fairy]

I fail to understand whats wrong with a red poppy. people did what they had to do and I am proud of them x

 

[redpoppy]

Ok, the money from white poppies doesn't go to help veterans etc, but it does go towards campaigning for peace, what's wrong with that?

Absolutely nothing! But hijacking that day is an act of aggression in itself in my opinion. Someone like me who would be inclined to wear a white poppy in many ways above a red one as I am not someone who would want to condone war, might decide to wear the white poppy if it weren't for a thread like this. The white poppy almost suggests that if you wear a red poppy you are against peace but if you wear a white one you're not. If they want to campaign for peace it would make more sense, get more support, and not distort the message of the red poppy appeal if they did it on another day.

 

[marley2580]

But they're not going to change it after 70 odd years are they?

 

[smokey]

But they're not going to change it after 70 odd years are they?

But arnt they trying to change something thats been going on for thousands of years when it comes to war? maybe they need to change their own views and tactics before they can change others.

 

[KandyKinz]

The thing I don't understand is why the red poppy and the white poppy have to be at odds. I wear both, so the red poppy people aren't losing out on any money from me so that's not an issue and we made our own white poppies primarily because there's no place near buy that actually sells them. To me both poppies can be very much complimentary to eachother.... with the red symbolizing what was and the white symbolizing what could be....

 

[cherryglitter]

I don't know why but I don't think they should be worn together. I just find it a bit insulting. I've visited the Somme and have visited some of the cemeteries where there are just rows and rows of graves so I guess im a bit emotionally attatched to the red poppy! I was also in Army Cadets and we used to do Remembrance Parade and also sell poppies.

Although I understand why people wear them and that's up to them Im probably the wrong person to comment on this thread lol! xx

 

[cherryglitter]

But surely you must agree that there are other ways to go about it on their own merits then it would bring more awareness to its cause other then off the backs of another organisation and wouldnt create this divide.

As I have said before this is from their own website and how they advertise the sale of their poppy

"Each year our white poppies project challenge the war-condoning values of traditional remembrance ceremonies."

To lay one of those at a war mamorial on remembrance day is a slap in the face saying "well you shouldnt have gone to war then"
Why delibratly lay something that means you dont agree with what happened at a war mamorial on that day and why encourage people to do so that is delibratly asking for trouble.

Also to raise money and then keep it all is just wrong to me

This is also how I feel. It's actually making me really upset thinking about it. It is almost like saying, exactly that, you shouldn't have gone to war then. That's how I feel anyway. It just find it to be making a mockery?

 

[redpoppy]

The thing I don't understand is why the red poppy and the white poppy have to be at odds. I wear both, so the red poppy people aren't losing out on any money from me so that's not an issue and we made our own white poppies primarily because there's no place near buy that actually sells them. To me both poppies can be very much complimentary to eachother.... with the red symbolizing what was and the white symbolizing what could be....

I think wearing both is quite fair but there will be people who wear JUST the white one and on remembrance day it does seem a little offensive. Like it is in opposition to the red as opposed to complimentary to it. I imagine if there was a peace day pretty much everyone would be for it and be walking around wearing a white poppy. Having said that, even using the poppy symbol which is so specific to the end of WW1 where poppies grew on seemingly barren land just seems a little wrong. The red poppy IS a symbol of hope for the future for that very reason.

A white dove would be more appropriate perhaps?

Apart from horrible people who make money from war NO ONE is against peace right? Although maybe I'm being naive in thinking this.

 

[Midnight_Fairy]

I don't know why but I don't think they should be worn together. I just find it a bit insulting. I've visited the Somme and have visited some of the cemeteries where there are just rows and rows of graves so I guess im a bit emotionally attatched to the red poppy! I was also in Army Cadets and we used to do Remembrance Parade and also sell poppies.

Although I understand why people wear them and that's up to them Im probably the wrong person to comment on this thread lol! xx

I agree