Why is it so hard to have a friendly debate?

[Gen79]

Why is it that ladies are so sensitive that they can't discuss anything intelligent and serious without getting upset at each other?

I have thoughts and ideas that I want to discuss but as soon as people start to disagree it goes sour. Indeed, sometimes if it just looks like there might be disagreement people go up in arms. How can we really learn if we're not able to disagree openly? In British Uni's they have seminars where people are supposed to debate their ideas with each other, because its how you open your mind and learn things. I get that this is a support forum but its still a good idea to learn how to disagree in a friendly, intelligent way.

My mom hates conflict and if you even disagree with her she feels attacked and has an attitude about it. Sometimes this is a delayed reaction and I don't find out she's been harboring resentment for weeks, months even! You may say that obviously its my issue then. I don't know how to get along with people? On the contrary, I have friends and get along with most people. Mom however, can't keep an adult relationship; not even her siblings! Maybe if she learned how to not take everything so personally, it wouldn't be that way. I don't know, it wouldn't hurt.

I'm afraid we haven't come very far as a gender and this may be why, in general, we're underrepresented in the corporate, academic and political world.

It makes me sad.

 

[lindseymw]

I think it's quite hard to have a 'discussion' on a forum with anonymous people without it resulting in arguments because it can be very hard to determine the tone of someones post and some posts can be taken as an attack on a personal level.

The difference between a seminar at Uni & the forum 'debates' is you can hear (& know the majority of the students) what they are saying, how they are saying it etc, the forum you can't. Unfortunately text is very hard to interpret the meaning sometimes. For example:-

Texting a friend:
Me: "Took the kids to the pub for dinner today"
Friend: "As if you took the kids to the pub, I think that is shocking"

Now, I know my friend & know that would have been sent with sarcasm & think nothing of it BUT if a stranger put it on the internet, I wouldn't know whether they were being serious or sarcastic & it could cause offence as it questions my parenting & I would feel obliged to back up my parenting choice. (Actually, I personally wouldn't because I have a 'couldn't give a sh*t attitude').

My Gran has a similar attitude to your Mom, you cannot disagree with her on anything as it offends her.

I think having the mix of personalities on a forum is great but it can also be a recipe for disaster!

 

[smelly07]

I think it's quite hard to have a 'discussion' on a forum with anonymous people without it resulting in arguments because it can be very hard to determine the tone of someones post and some posts can be taken as an attack on a personal level.

The difference between a seminar at Uni & the forum 'debates' is you can hear (& know the majority of the students) what they are saying, how they are saying it etc, the forum you can't. Unfortunately text is very hard to interpret the meaning sometimes. For example:-

Texting a friend:
Me: "Took the kids to the pub for dinner today"
Friend: "As if you took the kids to the pub, I think that is shocking"

Now, I know my friend & know that would have been sent with sarcasm & think nothing of it BUT if a stranger put it on the internet, I wouldn't know whether they were being serious or sarcastic & it could cause offence as it questions my parenting & I would feel obliged to back up my parenting choice. (Actually, I personally wouldn't because I have a 'couldn't give a sh*t attitude').

My Gran has a similar attitude to your Mom, you cannot disagree with her on anything as it offends her.

I think having the mix of personalities on a forum is great but it can also be a recipe for disaster!

I agree ^^^^^ and especially with the bit in bold..............although i dont personally give a monkeys about what people think of me and my parenting choice....there are sensitive parents on here.......people do nit pick at words and start arguements and put down other parenting methods which there is no need for........it works on both sides though...........just because a parent does something different to another doesnt mean its wrong.....

BF VS FF
TW VS BLW
FF VS RF

etc etc

all these debates drive me mad..............they really should all be

 

[Lightworker]

My DH likes to say "women are emotional creatures" and to some extent it is true..and yes it contributes to why there are very few women in prominent positions.

As for this forum... I think what we all need to accept is that for the most part, we are all lovely women, who don't want to deliberately upset anyone. Once we accept that, we will be better equipped to deal with people's differing opinions.

Alot can be done in terms of how we state things, word things etc..but everyone has different levels of sensitivity and we cannot cater for all, unless we refrain from exercising opinion in the first place.

Some topics generate less heat because we are not very connected to them, others generate more, as we identify with them more e.g. parenting debates. Anyway..my advice would be for people to stop being quick to take offence, stop being defensive, analyze your own opinion and if it feels right thats all that should matter.

 

[redpoppy]

I think because there is an element of not knowing the people you're speaking to. If you spoke in real life you'd have to deal with "real" people. I'm on another forum which never gets as emotional as this one but I think they have stricter rules and more of a community spirit. Also there are a lot more meets with mums in your area.

I also think in the debates section we are talking about topics which are controversial and also which have real consequences in life. If someone is posting something where a study has said that CIO is going to definitely damage your child for example then mum's who have done it will feel personally attacked. Or if there is a thread about smacking there are obviously extreme views. Some people think the tiniest tap can be classified as abuse and others see nothing wrong with using smacking as a regular disciplinary tool. Things ARE personal in those regards because you end up having strangers telling you that you are an abuser in effect.

Or where political ideals or laws etc. are being discussed. If you get people saying that all smacking should be punishable by law or all smoking should be banned and smokers are abusers these are extreme views. Its interesting and fun to discuss and debate but some people end up taking things personally or indeed end up getting emotional after a bad day etc. I once ended up offending a mother on here who actually read my post wrong and took it to mean the exact opposite of what it did mean. I got a bit annoyed at first but it transpired that she's had a really tough day and I apologised and she explained and things were fine. I think.

 

[smelly07]

The other thing about forums that i have seen and dont like is the 'ganging up' on a particular person for having a different opinion on a debate topic...or any topic infact.............it isnt freindly debating and it can get nasty and pathetic really and sometimes it seems to me people like to cause a row and like a drama more then anything.........iykwim.. x

i was told people may see my posts as 'angry' as i use lots of !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but thats not the case

i am a ................................... !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! addict its a habit im not angry ..................honest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

if i was angry i would say 'i am angry' some people assume too much.....
i think before getting defensive, reporting posts and replying with a nasty comment maybe people should private message a person to ask about about a post rather then just assume something is being said in a way it possibly isnt.... that way a lot of hassle can be avoided like for instance in redpoppy's situtation x

if that makes sense.....................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[redpoppy]

I also remember being on a thread a while ago in which something racially related was posted in an article and it caused a few people to post things which were very touchy subjects on race and one person kind of "crossed the line" as many posters saw it. When you get onto subjects of discrimination, be it based on race or homophobia etc. There are people in these forums who will obviously take things personally because it affects their lives.

Having said that I do thing people should be allowed to post anything on e debates forum whatever their experience or opinion is but they should then also be able to take the heat when people question or challenge them. That is the beauty of free speech. But things should never resort to name calling or personal insults etc.

 

[Eve]

It turns bad because we let it... I can be wasily offended but its my choice if I wish to cause upset over it or let it go.

 

[Gen79]

I think it's quite hard to have a 'discussion' on a forum with anonymous people without it resulting in arguments because it can be very hard to determine the tone of someones post and some posts can be taken as an attack on a personal level.

The difference between a seminar at Uni & the forum 'debates' is you can hear (& know the majority of the students) what they are saying, how they are saying it etc, the forum you can't. Unfortunately text is very hard to interpret the meaning sometimes. For example:-

Texting a friend:
Me: "Took the kids to the pub for dinner today"
Friend: "As if you took the kids to the pub, I think that is shocking"

Now, I know my friend & know that would have been sent with sarcasm & think nothing of it BUT if a stranger put it on the internet, I wouldn't know whether they were being serious or sarcastic & it could cause offence as it questions my parenting & I would feel obliged to back up my parenting choice. (Actually, I personally wouldn't because I have a 'couldn't give a sh*t attitude').

My Gran has a similar attitude to your Mom, you cannot disagree with her on anything as it offends her.

I think having the mix of personalities on a forum is great but it can also be a recipe for disaster!

I think this is a good point but since everyone knows you can't get tone in written form all the time, people should just chill a bit. If someone told me co-sleeping was going to ruin my daughter, I wouldn't have a hissy fit, I'd let it roll off my back because I 100% believe its right for us. But if there were tons of studies that said co-sleeping was bad I'd pay attention. Again, I still wouldn't take it personally. Its a scientific study, not a judgement. When it comes to things like bf'ing I totally get why people get upset about that. I just think it's dealt with incorrectly. That's all I'm going to say about that lol b/c I do mean for this thread to be in general.

I agree ^^^^^ and especially with the bit in bold..............although i dont personally give a monkeys about what people think of me and my parenting choice....there are sensitive parents on here.......people do nit pick at words and start arguements and put down other parenting methods which there is no need for........it works on both sides though...........just because a parent does something different to another doesnt mean its wrong.....

BF VS FF
TW VS BLW
FF VS RF

etc etc

all these debates drive me mad..............they really should all be

I hate censorship (most of the time lol).

My DH likes to say "women are emotional creatures" and to some extent it is true..and yes it contributes to why there are very few women in prominent positions.

You are a brave woman.

As for this forum... I think what we all need to accept is that for the most part, we are all lovely women, who don't want to deliberately upset anyone. Once we accept that, we will be better equipped to deal with people's differing opinions.

Alot can be done in terms of how we state things, word things etc..but everyone has different levels of sensitivity and we cannot cater for all, unless we refrain from exercising opinion in the first place.

Some topics generate less heat because we are not very connected to them, others generate more, as we identify with them more e.g. parenting debates. Anyway..my advice would be for people to stop being quick to take offence, stop being defensive, analyze your own opinion and if it feels right thats all that should matter.

I couldn't agree with you more. I think that I just need to remember that there are other places to go for debate, to be honest. This isn't the place to fulfill that part of my personality.

I think because there is an element of not knowing the people you're speaking to. If you spoke in real life you'd have to deal with "real" people. I'm on another forum which never gets as emotional as this one but I think they have stricter rules and more of a community spirit. Also there are a lot more meets with mums in your area.

I also think in the debates section we are talking about topics which are controversial and also which have real consequences in life. If someone is posting something where a study has said that CIO is going to definitely damage your child for example then mum's who have done it will feel personally attacked. Or if there is a thread about smacking there are obviously extreme views. Some people think the tiniest tap can be classified as abuse and others see nothing wrong with using smacking as a regular disciplinary tool. Things ARE personal in those regards because you end up having strangers telling you that you are an abuser in effect.

Or where political ideals or laws etc. are being discussed. If you get people saying that all smacking should be punishable by law or all smoking should be banned and smokers are abusers these are extreme views. Its interesting and fun to discuss and debate but some people end up taking things personally or indeed end up getting emotional after a bad day etc. I once ended up offending a mother on here who actually read my post wrong and took it to mean the exact opposite of what it did mean. I got a bit annoyed at first but it transpired that she's had a really tough day and I apologised and she explained and things were fine. I think.

I saw that thread. I was thinking "No, no that's not what she meant! Calm down!" lol
I belong to another forum of very thick skinned people and I guess I should remember not everyone is like that.

They should be though.

It turns bad because we let it... I can be wasily offended but its my choice if I wish to cause upset over it or let it go.

This is a very good point! I totally agree. I hope that, even if you are easily offended, you think about it and over time realise maybe you didn't need to be?

 

[tina3747]

The other thing about forums that i have seen and dont like is the 'ganging up' on a particular person for having a different opinion on a debate topic...or any topic infact.............it isnt freindly debating and it can get nasty and pathetic really and sometimes it seems to me people like to cause a row and like a drama more then anything.........iykwim.. x

i was told people may see my posts as 'angry' as i use lots of !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but thats not the case

i am a ................................... !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! addict its a habit im not angry ..................honest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

if i was angry i would say 'i am angry' some people assume too much.....
i think before getting defensive, reporting posts and replying with a nasty comment maybe people should private message a person to ask about about a post rather then just assume something is being said in a way it possibly isnt.... that way a lot of hassle can be avoided like for instance in redpoppy's situtation x

if that makes sense.....................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Smellybob, I'm a !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Addict!! I do read some peoples posts though and wonder if it's a !!!!!!! as in funny or !!!!!!!!!!! Angry or !!!!!!!!!! Sarcastic!

Also people get out of saying insulting things with a or

i do admit to a little tingly excitement on a locked thread!! I always jump to the last page ha!!
News and debates seems to be alot less heated though, and you'd think it would be yhe opposite when debating rather than giving 'advice' !!!! That wasn't sarcasm by the way ha!

 

[Palestrina]

You seem to like moving discussions. Every time I post a reply you start a new thread. I am a very friendly person, I do have my own convictions but I felt that the trailer about MissRepresentation was important to share even if you disagree with its content. Then when you moved the discussion to a new thread I replied there and yet you still did not bother to continue the discussion. There was nothing at all hostile about my responses, and I don't see the need for starting this thread based on what I said. There are explosions from time to time when it comes to different parenting styles and parenting is such an emotional issue that people feel attacked when their parenting choices are questioned. However, this was not the issue at all in my posts.

I think the most hostile thing I may have said in one of my posts was "for the sake of fair argument, I feel extremely different than you" when you said you felt pressure from feminists about having a career.

In short, I believe that it is difficult to have a friendly debate because the poster vanishes and moves the discussion to new threads lol.

 

[Lightworker]

Just wanted to add...for me..95% of the reason I come to BnB for is a debate....I generally don't debate in real life..

 

[Gen79]

You seem to like moving discussions. Every time I post a reply you start a new thread. I am a very friendly person, I do have my own convictions but I felt that the trailer about MissRepresentation was important to share even if you disagree with its content. Then when you moved the discussion to a new thread I replied there and yet you still did not bother to continue the discussion. There was nothing at all hostile about my responses, and I don't see the need for starting this thread based on what I said. There are explosions from time to time when it comes to different parenting styles and parenting is such an emotional issue that people feel attacked when their parenting choices are questioned. However, this was not the issue at all in my posts.

I think the most hostile thing I may have said in one of my posts was "for the sake of fair argument, I feel extremely different than you" when you said you felt pressure from feminists about having a career.

In short, I believe that it is difficult to have a friendly debate because the poster vanishes and moves the discussion to new threads lol.

This thread has nothing to do with you, I promise. I didn't answer the last thread yet b/c I want to watch the film first. I invited you to this one because I thought you might agree or at least have an interesting take on it. Sorry to have confused you.

 

[elephant29]

I do understand what you mean. It's like sometimes people are afraid of speaking the truth due to repercussions.

xxx

 

[Quackquack99]

I don't know about anyone else but I love a good debate. I don't think anyone needs to make a personal attack to anyone just aslong as their points have been made.

 

[smelly07]

The other thing about forums that i have seen and dont like is the 'ganging up' on a particular person for having a different opinion on a debate topic...or any topic infact.............it isnt freindly debating and it can get nasty and pathetic really and sometimes it seems to me people like to cause a row and like a drama more then anything.........iykwim.. x

i was told people may see my posts as 'angry' as i use lots of !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but thats not the case

i am a ................................... !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! addict its a habit im not angry ..................honest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

if i was angry i would say 'i am angry' some people assume too much.....
i think before getting defensive, reporting posts and replying with a nasty comment maybe people should private message a person to ask about about a post rather then just assume something is being said in a way it possibly isnt.... that way a lot of hassle can be avoided like for instance in redpoppy's situtation x

if that makes sense.....................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Smellybob, I'm a !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Addict!! I do read some peoples posts though and wonder if it's a !!!!!!! as in funny or !!!!!!!!!!! Angry or !!!!!!!!!! Sarcastic!

Also people get out of saying insulting things with a or

i do admit to a little tingly excitement on a locked thread!! I always jump to the last page ha!!
News and debates seems to be alot less heated though, and you'd think it would be yhe opposite when debating rather than giving 'advice' !!!! That wasn't sarcasm by the way ha!

Tinabob your posts always crack me up!!! i use !!!!!!!!!! just because!!!!!!!

yeah i hate that after being insulted or during a very patronising post!!!!

quite honestly sometimes all i want to write in a post is F*ck off as thats what i'd say in real life but i dont im very good on here

i love a good debate or argument as such where its pretty much even on both sides but when a gang of people attack 1 person and just nit pick at words just to entertain themselves....thats not nice..........xxxxxx

 

[mum22ttc#3]

The other thing about forums that i have seen and dont like is the 'ganging up' on a particular person for having a different opinion on a debate topic...or any topic infact.............it isnt freindly debating and it can get nasty and pathetic really and sometimes it seems to me people like to cause a row and like a drama more then anything.........iykwim.. x
i was told people may see my posts as 'angry' as i use lots of !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but thats not the case

i am a ................................... !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! addict its a habit im not angry ..................honest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

if i was angry i would say 'i am angry' some people assume too much.....
i think before getting defensive, reporting posts and replying with a nasty comment maybe people should private message a person to ask about about a post rather then just assume something is being said in a way it possibly isnt.... that way a lot of hassle can be avoided like for instance in redpoppy's situtation x

if that makes sense.....................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I often read threads and am put off posting in them because of this.

 

[JASMAK]

I think that debating works well if there is no emotional attachment to a subject. Debate skiing versus snowboarding is MUCH different than debate circumcision vs non-circumcision.

Some people have a real hard time accepting other's opinions, and will instead, turn it into a 'she's being mean/rude/blunt' statement...when in actual fact, it is just a difference of opinion. I do really well in real life with touchy subjects, maybe because I am soft-spoken and super nice, in real life, but I have very strong morals and I will NOT break them, and I stand up for what I believe in. I own my feelings and thoughts. I don't go with the crowd. In real life, it is fine, but on these forums, I don't really feel like I come across the same way...but I don't take it personally. It's still me...and I am only being who I am.

Another thing, you can't detect tone in messages. I often write things out, and in my head it sounds nice...but I can tell, by responses, it is read WAAAY different than I said it. I am rarely nasty. But, I find that people will take my post as nasty if it is a differing opinion, even if there was no nasty tone when I wrote it. I think if we can read a post without adding a nasty tone to it, you can see it will sound entirely different!!! I *try* to do that.


Then there is what I like to call 'thread bullies'. They gather allies, and will use your name, and scrutinize every word, every possible tone it could be written, and over analyze everything. These people simply need to get a life.

 

[Natsku]

I do think there is a difference between men and women and how they can handle online debating, so its not just the particular issues of debating online, but the gender issues too. I am on another forum that is 90% male and there are frequent, pretty heated debates, but nobody gets upset or offended (except for one person, but he's a special case...).

However, debating parenting choices is so much more personal I think than debating other things, even lifestyle choices, because we can feel so insecure sometimes in our own parenting choices so if someone criticises them it can really hit home.

Edit: there was a loooong debate about circumcision though on that other forum and despite huge differences in opinions (and I guess its very personal as they're all male ) there was still no hurt feelings.

 

[Laura2919]

Its hard to see a point when your looking at a computer screen, people misunderstand someone and thats how it escalates.

I think that people write things meaning one thing and the person reads it wrong and thinks it means something else. Sometimes things are posted just to get a reaction but sometimes things are just misunderstood.

Its easily done.


Plus the point was raised in another thread, certain debates like BF vs FF dont really happen in real life.. I certainly dont debate with any of my friends about what they do with their LO's like sometimes happens on here.