"Would you steal a handbag?" - Piracy...

[MissMandieMitz]

I've been downloading things for free for probably 10 years! Mainly music, though, and I don't think I've downloaded that much compared to some people.

However, I've downloaded a couple thousand dollars worth of games.

 

[midori1999]

I didn't mean fake handbags. I've never bought a fake handbag. I'm just quoting the piracy adevrt.

it says :

You wouldn't steal a car would you?

But downloading stuff isn't really comparable is it?

Oops, I get what you mean now...

I suppose a lot of people obviously don't see it as comparable, but stealing is stealing as far as I am concerned, no stealing is worse or better than any other.

Really? So nicking a lollie from one of the picknmix things or a grape in the supermarket is no better or worse then breaking into someones house and clearing them out of everything??

In principle, no it isn't, it is still stealing.

The problem is this. There are certain types of stealing that are unlikely to have consequences, or serious consequences for the person commiting theft, but have great benefits. Also, the negatives or victim of the theft are 'hidden' from the person committing the theft, so to that person, the crime doesn't seem such a big deal.

It's the same when people buy cheap, stolen goods. I have a friend who has recently bought some Uggs for less than half what they retail for from someone selling a 'job lot'. (they are stolen) She is quite happy to tell people about her bargain and clearly feels no shame. I just don't get it. If she'd walked into a store and picked up the boots and stolen them, she probably wouldn't be telling anyone about it, but what's the real difference? Both items would be stolen.

It seems harmless, but it's not, it's theft and that is illegal. I prefer not to break the law, especially not deliberately.

 

[redpoppy]

Yeah but buying stolen goods encourages stealing (in a simple demand increases supply sense).

Stealing music or movies encourages... people to watch more movies and listen to more music... I don't know. It seems those most into music and films tens to be those who download them the most. I think my real DVD collection is a bit embarrassing in its size considering the size of our house and up until I had LO I would think I went to see live bands more than an average person too.

To me it's not really stealing at all. It's copying. That's why I find the parallels to stealing a purse or a car ridiculous. No I would never steal a purse or a car because it would be an act against an individual person. Taking music or movies without paying for them is an act against individuals at worst but realistically against an industry. The industry will be damaged but not so much that Avatar didn't make over a billion dollars. Not so much that the highest earning pop stars didn't make millions of dollars. The people who may suffer are small films and music but even there, it's better for both if people hear you or watch than not at all as it's very likely you will bite the dust if not and very likely you can follow up your work with more success if they do.

maybe....

 

[midori1999]

I think apart of the problem is that people generally don't see it as stealing, hence the adverts to attempt to make people feel differently. However, whether you see it as stealing or not, it's still breaking the law and that is wrong IMO.

 

[redpoppy]

I think apart of the problem is that people generally don't see it as stealing, hence the adverts to attempt to make people feel differently. However, whether you see it as stealing or not, it's still breaking the law and that is wrong IMO.

Hmmmm... I've never been one to do as I'm told without questioning...

 

[rubixcyoob.]

A question for those who believe it is wrong and stealing.
You download the music or film online from other people who have put it up there. In essence you are copying what they already have.

Would you take a friends CD or DVD and use the appropriate machinery to copy it? Even though it means you get to listen to/watch it without paying? Just because your friend bought the CD/DVD?

Some of the films/music I download are DVD/CD copies people have on their pcs, which I just see as copying their files. I put music onto my PC through CDs I have and then people download them from me, they're just copying what I have ...


Oooh another question! You can watch full movies on youtube (dependant on where they are) When I was in uni me and Oh used to watch Lion King, Hercules etc. straight from youtube (it's in around 10 parts). Is that stealing? Since we are just watching what others have uploaded and not paying for it? Since the only difference between watching them on youtube and downloading them would be one is all over the internet and the other is on your personal computer.

 

[smokey]

Just a quick question, have you ever recorded anything off of the TV? that is theft as even recording off the TV, radio, sky plus is all illegal as you have not recieved permision from the makers and the TV companies can not pass on copyright for others to do so.

I have always wondered why video recorders and tape players have record buttons on if its illegal, just another one of lifes little weird things

 

[redpoppy]

Totally (well almost) off topic:

At primary school we practiced all the songs for Oliver as we were going to do the play at school. We got started in rehearsals and then were told we were not allowed to put on the performance as the production company (I think it may have been warner brothers) did not give us permission to perform!!!!

Can you believe that!?!? We were 7-10 year olds!!!!

 

[smokey]

technicaly your supposed to pay copyright royalties everytime you sing happy birthday to some one (even saying happy birthday is coyrighted)

Along the same lines that would also mean your not allowed to actualy sing along to or out loud any songs because you dont have permision if you want to take it literaly

 

[rubixcyoob.]

Exactly Smokey!
If people want to be on a high horse (not saying anyone on here is btw, but you all know the kinds of people I'm talking about), and be holier than thou about things, they should basically just commit themselves to living in a cave and never leaving it.

 

[PeanutBean]

I doubt the birthday song is under copyright anymore and phrases can't be copyrighted. Lol

We used to be big downloaders of music and I mean really really big, like hundreds of gb. We do it only occasionally now and will pay to download some stuff. We have only stopped because the risks of prosecution have grown. I did once have a big discussion with a friend of my brother's who works for a record company. Inevitably he was very anti-music piracy. It's true that artists don't usually see much of the profits and the most money is now made through live gigs and merchandise. It would be nice to see a whole movement away to downloading for free, or perhaps a small subscription to the label, in order to improve access to and interest in bands then do the gig thing to make money. It must be possible for this to work or there wouldn't be artists supporting the move.

We don't download films really. We do download anime but it is mostly fan subbed and not otherwise available in English. FIL is always palming off the worst film copies on us and I just don't see the point when the quality is so bad. DH works in a library so we often borrow mainstream stuff and buy it later if we think it's worth it. We buy outright more indie stuff. We rather like DVDs, special features, box sets, docus etc. I do resent film DVDs that come with nothing extra though!

 

[smokey]

I doubt the birthday song is under copyright anymore and phrases can't be copyrighted. Lol
We used to be big downloaders of music and I mean really really big, like hundreds of gb. We do it only occasionally now and will pay to download some stuff. We have only stopped because the risks of prosecution have grown. I did once have a big discussion with a friend of my brother's who works for a record company. Inevitably he was very anti-music piracy. It's true that artists don't usually see much of the profits and the most money is now made through live gigs and merchandise. It would be nice to see a whole movement away to downloading for free, or perhaps a small subscription to the label, in order to improve access to and interest in bands then do the gig thing to make money. It must be possible for this to work or there wouldn't be artists supporting the move.

We don't download films really. We do download anime but it is mostly fan subbed and not otherwise available in English. FIL is always palming off the worst film copies on us and I just don't see the point when the quality is so bad. DH works in a library so we often borrow mainstream stuff and buy it later if we think it's worth it. We buy outright more indie stuff. We rather like DVDs, special features, box sets, docus etc. I do resent film DVDs that come with nothing extra though!

The songs copyright doesnt expire in US untill 2030 and europe 2016, The phrase is still copyrighted as it wasnt used untill the song came about so the two where copyrighted seperatly by The Time-Warner Corporation.
There was a organisation set up about 20 years ago to inforce the paying of royalties from tv and film if the song is used in the tv show or film.
The phrase isnt inforced as much but does still bring in royalties.


So I hope none of you are breaking the law by not paying to sing it

 

[redpoppy]

I doubt the birthday song is under copyright anymore and phrases can't be copyrighted. Lol
We used to be big downloaders of music and I mean really really big, like hundreds of gb. We do it only occasionally now and will pay to download some stuff. We have only stopped because the risks of prosecution have grown. I did once have a big discussion with a friend of my brother's who works for a record company. Inevitably he was very anti-music piracy. It's true that artists don't usually see much of the profits and the most money is now made through live gigs and merchandise. It would be nice to see a whole movement away to downloading for free, or perhaps a small subscription to the label, in order to improve access to and interest in bands then do the gig thing to make money. It must be possible for this to work or there wouldn't be artists supporting the move.

We don't download films really. We do download anime but it is mostly fan subbed and not otherwise available in English. FIL is always palming off the worst film copies on us and I just don't see the point when the quality is so bad. DH works in a library so we often borrow mainstream stuff and buy it later if we think it's worth it. We buy outright more indie stuff. We rather like DVDs, special features, box sets, docus etc. I do resent film DVDs that come with nothing extra though!

The songs copyright doesnt expire in US untill 2030 and europe 2016, The phrase is still copyrighted as it wasnt used untill the song came about so the two where copyrighted seperatly by The Time-Warner Corporation.
There was a organisation set up about 20 years ago to inforce the paying of royalties from tv and film if the song is used in the tv show or film.
The phrase isnt inforced as much but does still bring in royalties.


So I hope none of you are breaking the law by not paying to sing it

Do have to pay to sing it in public or also when I'm all alone?

 

[lulu61388]

i used to torrent every single album i ever wanted and i'd never buy a cd in person. i didn't do it because i had anything against the music industry, it was just easier and readily available. i don't really think about it as stealing but i understand why others do but just because i download music doesn't mean i'd snatch a purse from an unsuspecting person on the street.

i still support artists by going to concerts and buying merchandise. and plenty of people are still buying cd's, taylor swift sold 1 million albums in one week this past week!

anyway, i don't torrent as much anymore because i do not listen to as much music as i used to. christmas of 2009 i got $45 in itunes gift cards and i still haven't used the entire balance up! so if i want music now i just go on the itunes store and pay for it.

 

[PeanutBean]

So I did a google! Lol I'm amazed that any copyright could last so long, it says the copyright in the US is supposed to last til 2030 which makes it 92 years! Things usually run out much before that depending on when the copyright was filed. I find it is a contentious issue as those who copyrighted the melody didn't write the words and there seems to be some debate over whether the copyright is valid.

I maintain though that you can't copyright phrases. It would be impossible to prove no-one had said happy birthday before the song. You can of course register them as a trademark but that has different implications.

Anyway rest assured you don't have to pay royalties singing it at home, as with all these sorts of copyrights it's only for public performance or where performance is for profit, or presumably in reproduction of the music/lyrics.

 

[NuKe]

I am a massive film fan, and I collect DVDs and blurays so I buy them legally. I don't do the same with music, probably because it's quite expensive! Download it off limewire. I don't download movies, I prefer to own them.

 

[smokey]

So I did a google! Lol I'm amazed that any copyright could last so long, it says the copyright in the US is supposed to last til 2030 which makes it 92 years! Things usually run out much before that depending on when the copyright was filed. I find it is a contentious issue as those who copyrighted the melody didn't write the words and there seems to be some debate over whether the copyright is valid.

I maintain though that you can't copyright phrases. It would be impossible to prove no-one had said happy birthday before the song. You can of course register them as a trademark but that has different implications.

Anyway rest assured you don't have to pay royalties singing it at home, as with all these sorts of copyrights it's only for public performance or where performance is for profit, or presumably in reproduction of the music/lyrics.

I think there is a clause where come 2030 they can apply to get the copyright extended like with what happened to the peterpan book.
J. M. Barrie left the copyright to peter pan in his will to great ormand st hospital so that they would get all royalties to it but when the copyright ran out about 2-3 years ago GOS applied to have their copyright extended (Disney only has liscence from GOS to make a cartoon but never had copyright) they won their appeal and commisioned a sequeal to the book so that they could hold the copyright another 100 or so years.
J. M. Barrie current family tried to argue the apeal but lost it.

Any I digress my point was people saying no because its illegal to steal copyrighted stuff but youd be surprised how many technicaly steal without even realising it.
Copy right and intelectual property is a very funny thin line thing.

 

[smokey]

I doubt the birthday song is under copyright anymore and phrases can't be copyrighted. Lol
We used to be big downloaders of music and I mean really really big, like hundreds of gb. We do it only occasionally now and will pay to download some stuff. We have only stopped because the risks of prosecution have grown. I did once have a big discussion with a friend of my brother's who works for a record company. Inevitably he was very anti-music piracy. It's true that artists don't usually see much of the profits and the most money is now made through live gigs and merchandise. It would be nice to see a whole movement away to downloading for free, or perhaps a small subscription to the label, in order to improve access to and interest in bands then do the gig thing to make money. It must be possible for this to work or there wouldn't be artists supporting the move.

We don't download films really. We do download anime but it is mostly fan subbed and not otherwise available in English. FIL is always palming off the worst film copies on us and I just don't see the point when the quality is so bad. DH works in a library so we often borrow mainstream stuff and buy it later if we think it's worth it. We buy outright more indie stuff. We rather like DVDs, special features, box sets, docus etc. I do resent film DVDs that come with nothing extra though!

The songs copyright doesnt expire in US untill 2030 and europe 2016, The phrase is still copyrighted as it wasnt used untill the song came about so the two where copyrighted seperatly by The Time-Warner Corporation.
There was a organisation set up about 20 years ago to inforce the paying of royalties from tv and film if the song is used in the tv show or film.
The phrase isnt inforced as much but does still bring in royalties.


So I hope none of you are breaking the law by not paying to sing it

Do have to pay to sing it in public or also when I'm all alone?

Depends who grasses you up

As long as your singing it to a small group where the vast majority are related to you or close friends (ie not singing it to the general public) then the copyright law for happy birthday is not inforced, it is still there if the company wanted to get funny but just generaly only inforced to public, profit usage

 

[PeanutBean]

I do recall a few years ago there being some change to the copyright laws. I think the Beatles songs were copyrighted for 50 years as was standard and it coming close to the end there was a big hooha about it. You're right of course that in general people do steal alsorts of things unwittingly or sometimes with knowledge but feeling it's their due, like extra expenses at work for example.

 

[smokey]

I do recall a few years ago there being some change to the copyright laws. I think the Beatles songs were copyrighted for 50 years as was standard and it coming close to the end there was a big hooha about it. You're right of course that in general people do steal alsorts of things unwittingly or sometimes with knowledge but feeling it's their due, like extra expenses at work for example.

I steal chips when im in the kitchen at work all the time