American health care bill

[Minstermind]

(I'm American, moved to Ireland a few years ago).

The health care reform has held a lot of interest for me and I have done *some* research on it, though I have stopped short of reading the *actual* bill page per page. I'll state from the beginning that I agree with offering health care coverage to everyone, regardless their income. Like many Europeans, I too have been having a hard time understanding why the opponents have such a big problem with it. I've discussed this two friends of mine who are actively against the health care reform bill and what I have gathered, SO FAR, is that it really boils down to two major points:

Many people in the states are ***extremely*** against increasing government control in any area of their lives, and they see the government putting their hand in health care to be a very big deal, a paradigm shift in the way things operate there (I'm not getting into the debate about whether or not the government already does have a heavy hand in people's lives, just expressing one of the fundamental reasons many are against this).

Also, many are against how quickly this bill has been slapped together, and think that it would be far more effective and useful to confront health care reform using single issues bills rather than creating a whole, take it or leave it, package. In other words, they could pass ONE bill that prevents insurance companies from denying coverage based on preexisting conditions, and then another bill on another aspect of it, etc.. so that they could handle it in smaller steps rather than whacking an imperfect, much-eroded package deal together that contains a number of inflammatory subjects (such as the coverage for abortions, for instance, which was for a finish pulled out of the deal last minute so it would get passed).

Many feel that there IS indeed a need for health care reform but don't think the government should have a hand in it. Right now the states have a lot of control over the insurance companies and the market. In order to drive down the costs for health insurance, they could open it up to the national market, so that people can shop around for the lowest rates, like they do for auto insurance. This would decrease costs as insurance companies compete for ''customers''.

One of the other BIG DEALS in this is that people would be forced to pay for health care coverage, whether they wanted it or not, or face being fined if they don't buy it. That ties in with the government interference in people's lives.

 

[bsilla]

im a liberal republican, yet love obama, this bill has pros and cons, just like the clinton housing bill, it all depends on how it gets used and what people do with it later on down the road, obama seems to mean well and i hope him the best.

 

[Minstermind]

Also, in an economy that is suffering, many people are opposed to the inevitable increase in taxes that would come into play...what they want to be hearing about right now is job creation and economic improvement, not how they're going to be paying out more money for something.

To be honest, and this is more off the record, I do think there's a basic point of view in place there where *some* people don't feel they should be paying for other people's health care. As rotten as it sounds, I do think there's an element of that for sure.

************

At the end of the day, living here in Ireland and having some sense of what it's like to live in a place where there is a government-funded healthcare system in place, I listen to the arguments against it and I agree with SOME of their points, but overall, I do think its better to have a government-funded healthcare system than not. It may not be perfect but it would be a lot better than what's in place now. I just think they could have gone about the healthcare reform in a better way than they have, and I don't think the fight is going to be over if this bill passes. There are apparently already 38 governors (out of 50) who are set to bring forth lawsuits if the bill passes, and in addition, the November elections will potentially see some Democrats fired, and if the Republicans get the majority, they will set on track a repeals process to undo the bill.

What a headache.

 

[lozzy21]

I dont get why people are so against it. Again as a brit i can only compare it to the nhs.

Any one can get treated on the nhs for free (except dentists bills but thats another rant lol) Yet if we choose you can pay for insuarance to go private. I personaly pay into a "top up" scheme which meens i can claim back the things i cant get for free on the NHS or should i choose to go private i can claim some of it back.

Isent that all Obama is preposing?

 

[Pussycat]

Thanks Minstermind, that makes sense. Single issue bills would be a better idea but I guess they take a very long time to get through and put into place.

(There are loads of people in the UK who resent the idea of paying for others less fortunate than themselves as well, refer the Daily Mail website any time as issue involving benefits arises, especially if said beneficiary is a single mum!)

 

[Drazic<3]

The republicans have put across on of the strongest propaganda wars on socialised healthcare since, I believe, the propaganda wars of the Nazi and Communist campaigns. Honestly, some of the pure lies they have sent out about the NHS is amazing. Apparently, we only get three midwife appointments for a first pregnancy, apparently - if your care in the UK costs over £26,000 you are then not allowed care again for that year and are left to die. Apparently 'if' Hawkins was British he would of been left to die - regardless of the fact that he IS British and the NHS undertook all his care!

The fact is, they don't want it because of the money in insurance. They want the interests of their millionaire investors (who make money from refusing treatment, overdcharging premiums..ect) to be damaged.

In my humble opinion that is

Oh, and the NHS have NEVER told me what to do with my body - see what I mean about promoting propaganda! People are terrified because they are being flat out lied to.

 

[Minstermind]

Here's what one of my friends from the states said about it just today:

''Health care is a necessity, not a right. The ability to get health care is right. It is our responsibility to make enough and live within the means to achieve it. As long as health care isn't outlawed in America then Americans have their 'right' to health care secured.

Water and food are necessities as well. Lets make a National Food System as well, that way we don't have to shop for it.

We have social systems in place for the poor and disabled. We have a capitalist system in place for the ones who can make money. I'm willing to bet those 30ish million who just can't afford health care have houses more expensive than rentals, a lease on a car, a boat and trailer, take vacations every year, and have other habitual expenses. A 2000 buck vacation every year can buy a lot of health coverage.''

 

[Minstermind]

And another friend opposed to the health care bill:

'' I am very much against this health care bill. There are many things in the system that need to be fixed...no question. If they had come out with single issue bills, much could have been fixed already. For example, when you purchase car insurance you can get quotes from any insurance company and make your choice. There is more competition that way and the costs are lower because of it. Currently with medical insurance, each state determines who can sell insurance within that state...limited choices = higher costs. They could open up the medical insurance nationwide with a single page bill. 95% of the population would have supported that.

Pre-existing conditions is an issue that could / should be addressed, and again would be supported in a single issue bill. Another is being able to take your policy with you from job to job...would be widely supported.

Instead, this scary giant is truly a government takeover. The bill is full of new entitlement programs that will have to be paid for through increased taxes. There are some states already hit by a down economy that this bill will destroy. That is why there are 38 governors ready to file lawsuits if it passes today.

Additionally there is a large percentage of the population that does not want their tax dollars paying for abortions. The senate bill does not prohibit that. This is a very emotional issue for both sides. (edit by Minstermind: they took out this provision at the last minute in order to get the votes to pass it on Sunday).

There has been so much scandal, bribery, corruption and I would bet blackmail in getting this bill to this point, that the majority of the people here would fire everyone in Washington today. It will happen in November. Anyone who votes yea today will be out of politics by the end of the year.

History has proven over and over again that when government gets too big it will fail. On the way to that failure, terrible things happen.

There will be years of legal battles over this mess. We'll just have to pray and trust that someone much more powerful than anyone in Washington will help us straighten it all out.''

 

[tasha41]

TBH I don't understand the opposition to it oneeee bit.

Fear of the unknown maybe.

Maybe Americans are just fundamentally different.

 

[Shri]

as far as I can tell, the opposition to universal healthcare is a mindset, over and beyond the facts and figures and practical applications...and I am still trying to understand that mindset. It makes zero sense to me.

I really really try to understand it with an open mind and heart but by the end of the first sentence of anyone's explanation, I start seething inside. So - that must make me a hideous socialist communist or something.

 

[x-amy-x]

i dont understand it at all.. id be screwed if i had to pay out every time i needed to use the health service. Im very grateful for our free service x

 

[Missy86]

I am glad I am not American tbh and I get free health care

Out of interest how much does having a baby cost medically

 

[nicholatmn]

I am glad I am not American tbh and I get free health care

Out of interest how much does having a baby cost medically

Um... I am getting free visits to the doctor right now because of some previous medical coverage, but it would have been about $125 per visit, and I get about 12 visits plus, you have to pay for all the tests and ultrasounds. So far, I would have been about $6,000 in debt at 25 weeks. And they said to give birth would have cost $15,000 plus $5,000 for an epidural and any extra costs, like blood work. You're easily looking at $25,000+

and I'm living in a place where it's slightly cheaper.

 

[tasha41]

I think someone told me or posted here somewhere than an emergency c-section is over $20K

 

[Minstermind]

When I had my son 7 years ago in the states, he spent the first 5 days in intensive care. The bill to my insurance (thank god I had insurance through my work at the time) was 250,000 dollars. My insurance covered most of it and my bill was around 5,000 dollars after insurance.

 

[tasha41]

That is sickening

 

[nicholatmn]

I think someone told me or posted here somewhere than an emergency c-section is over $20K

I forgot about that! Yeah, it is!

 

[Minstermind]

TBH I don't understand the opposition to it oneeee bit.

Fear of the unknown maybe.

Maybe Americans are just fundamentally different.

Some Americans yes. I'm not one of them.

They fear big government, being mandated to have insurance (even if they're healthy and don't want it), and don't like the price tag attached.

 

[Minstermind]

I think that among the problems with American health care is the cost of things...I looked at the itemized bill for when my son was in the hospital and there was some shot they gave him (forget now what it was) that they charged 12,000 dollars for. Sorry but I can't think of any possibly concoction in the world that would cost 12,000 for one syringe-worth. Same can be said for things like an aspirin tablet (which costs less than a penny), the hospitals will charge some outrageous price for. I've no clue why this happens but I see this as being a big problem.

If they made general health care affordable to people instead of charging 65 dollars and upwards just to step foot in the door to see the doctor for 5 minutes (which is the case in many places), they could ease the burden considerably. They should do that anyway along with the rest of this reform bill, in my opinion.

 

[morri]

sheesh I wonder where the prices for the actions come from anyway?