American ladies.. who do you think will win the election?

[CalliesMOM]

The point is government never is effective as the private sector. What a waste government is when they try to control equal distribution. Who gets the privileges? Of course the government will protect their incomes. The liberals want government to make all our decisions. Let Obama and the liberals decide for us and it will take away whatever motivation we have away from us. Why work and try to get ahead when it will be given to people who feel they are in titled to have the same benefits as we do without doing anything. I believe in helping the less fortunate, but you know there are people that don't even try. Look at the ones who get government benefits to feed their children and instead let there kids go hungry to by drugs for themselves. Who is monitoring this? The government? How effective has that been? If we follow Obama, we will be stupid lemmings!

I agree. It seems like all Obama wants to do is make government more and more involved. Granted it seems like the American's who are of the entitlement era think that government should have their hand in everything. We are headed to a socialist/communist nation if we allow this to continue.

The "entitlement era"? Are we really throwing ageism into the mix now? You've got to be kidding me.

You betcha! I know so many people who have barely worked a day in their lives and expect the government to take care of them and then use the money they do get on drugs. They are all very capable of working but refuse. I was taught that you have to work to get what you want and I have worked a job ever since I was 16, except now I'm a stay at home mom (my husband makes enough to support us)

 

[TriChick]

It is an entitlement era. No one wants to work hard anymore and no one wants to start from the bottom and work thier way up.
As an example- I work for an air conditioning company. We have been trying to hire a service technician for months with no luck. The few people that do apply are 45+. It is nearly impossible to find young guys who want to do physical labor. They would prefer to live off the government then to work hard. What happens in 15- 20 years when there is no one left doing physical labor jobs. When you can't find an ac guy, a plumber, an electrician?

This is complete shit, I'm sorry but it is. I am 28 years old and have spent 10 years in the Navy working my ASS off. While you were home for Christmases and birthdays, I was inhaling sand while walking out to the flightline to prep for yet ANOTHER mission to make sure you were all safe and sound. I have spent countless hours poured over books to become fluent in Russian, and then again in Farsi in order to support our intelligence efforts. I have supervised a tactical mission of 98 equally hard-working 20 and 30-somethings to do what MANY in this country could not, regardless of age or income. BTW, ask any of them if Syria is Iran's route to the sea and they will hold back the laugh as they explain to you just how vital a working knowledge of the importance of the Strait of Hormuz is to our foreign policy, and how detrimental it is to entertain a candidate who does not possess such knowledge. Physical labor? Google SERE school and see if HVAC installation compares. The majority of those HARD working individuals came from low-to-middle income families and many have received government aid at one point in their lives, myself included. Before you want to consider me to be a "special case", look at the numbers of young Americans who have made the same choice I have and show them the respect they have earned and deserve. The next time you want to judge any of them based on their age and generation, I will gladly lend you my flight boots if you would like to walk a mile in them.

 

[TriChick]

It is an entitlement era. No one wants to work hard anymore and no one wants to start from the bottom and work thier way up.
As an example- I work for an air conditioning company. We have been trying to hire a service technician for months with no luck. The few people that do apply are 45+. It is nearly impossible to find young guys who want to do physical labor. They would prefer to live off the government then to work hard. What happens in 15- 20 years when there is no one left doing physical labor jobs. When you can't find an ac guy, a plumber, an electrician?

https://www.cnbc.com/id/34256312/Vocational_School_Enrollment_Booms_Amid_White_Collar_Bust

There's your answer. Do your research.

 

[whit.]

Many, Many, MANY of the people joining the military, which is hard labor, are fresh out of high school.

My husband, who is 29, busted his ass in the Air Force. Went through a deployment and served his time. He now busts his ass in a factory 12 hours a day 5-6 days a week. So, please don't group all younger people together as people who live off of the government and don't do hard labor. I think the people who genuinely live off of the government and are lazy asses are the minority.

 

[2have4kids]

The point is government never is effective as the private sector. What a waste government is when they try to control equal distribution. Who gets the privileges? Of course the government will protect their incomes. The liberals want government to make all our decisions. Let Obama and the liberals decide for us and it will take away whatever motivation we have away from us. Why work and try to get ahead when it will be given to people who feel they are in titled to have the same benefits as we do without doing anything. I believe in helping the less fortunate, but you know there are people that don't even try. Look at the ones who get government benefits to feed their children and instead let there kids go hungry to by drugs for themselves. Who is monitoring this? The government? How effective has that been? If we follow Obama, we will be stupid lemmings!

Sounds like you already are. You are willing to give up women's rights and freedoms and be ruled by another puppet (just like Bush) you ladies haven't had enough taken away from you yet.

Please tell me what level of education and grade you made? For some reason the writing of Tri/Whit and the other ladies who seem to be fluent in economics and the real world also seem to have agood grasp of the english language. Which really helps lead me to believe that it's the downfall of the education system and religious uprisings (and unstandardized) home schooling that has led women to undo everything their mothers, grandmothers and great grandmothers fought for-to give up your rights. You write about the Republican campaign without backing the claims and at the same time making big ugly generalisations. Have you read the Economist lately? No, I didn't think so.

If Romney gets in he's going to dumb the eduction system down so much it will truly be a country of extremists. It's a tried & true method of controling the masses while corporatists, the private school-educated higher society (that you've likely never chummed with) will be laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[staralfur]

I've pretty much ducked out of this conversation due to my lack of being American, but I just wanted to say...

We are headed to a socialist/communist nation if we allow this to continue.

Also, I think you need new friends as you seem to know all sorts of people who are abusing the system terribly, yadda yadda.

 

[FarfromHome]

The point is government never is effective as the private sector. What a waste government is when they try to control equal distribution. Who gets the privileges? Of course the government will protect their incomes. The liberals want government to make all our decisions. Let Obama and the liberals decide for us and it will take away whatever motivation we have away from us. Why work and try to get ahead when it will be given to people who feel they are in titled to have the same benefits as we do without doing anything. I believe in helping the less fortunate, but you know there are people that don't even try. Look at the ones who get government benefits to feed their children and instead let there kids go hungry to by drugs for themselves. Who is monitoring this? The government? How effective has that been? If we follow Obama, we will be stupid lemmings!

Sounds like you already are. You are willing to give up women's rights and freedoms and be ruled by another puppet (just like Bush) you ladies haven't had enough taken away from you yet.

Please tell me what level of education and grade you made? For some reason the writing of Tri/Whit and the other ladies who seem to be fluent in economics and the real world also seem to have agood grasp of the english language. Which really helps lead me to believe that it's the downfall of the education system and religious uprisings (and unstandardized) home schooling that has led women to undo everything their mothers, grandmothers and great grandmothers fought for-to give up your rights. You write about the Republican campaign without backing the claims and at the same time making big ugly generalisations. Have you read the Economist lately? No, I didn't think so.

If Romney gets in he's going to dumb the eduction system down so much it will truly be a country of extremists. It's a tried & true method of controling the masses while corporatists, the private school-educated higher society (that you've likely never chummed with) will be laughing all the way to the bank.

Well I don't know if you're referring to me since I'm rooting for Romney, but I was private school educated and then attended one of the most prestigious universities in California. I work in the pharmaceutical industry as a Microbiologist.

Once again, I will state that feeling like government should have less of a role in business and the economy does not make you an idiot or a horrible person. It just defines your political party. To be honest, I totally agree with Romney that the states need to have more of a say and decide what works best for them. That is how the government was created to run. Every state is so unique and has individual needs, so why try to make one big system that has to now squeeze into everybody's mold? I 100% believe that we need a welfare system for those who need it. HOWEVER, I don't think it should be a "federal" system. Texas will have different needs then California and New York. Why not let each state work together and determine what they need to best take care of their people.

It seems a lot of the people commenting on here are from outside the US. I'll say upfront that it's been very educational and enlightening to read everybody's opinion. However, my guess is that most people who are not US citizens are not going to have an "in depth" knowledge of American History. I'm certainly not saying everybody, just the majority I'm guessing. The US was created to be exactly that...individual states that are united by a federal government but still able to run and function within their own governments as well. It seems we've lost so much of this vision the bigger and bigger the federal government grows. I don't see how it makes me a bad person to think that welfare belongs to each state's government's agenda and not the federal government?

Edit to add: It seems fair to keep in mind that probably a lot of us are coming on here at night, sleep deprived from taking care of LO's, while nursing etc etc and certainly won't be typing with the accuracy and mental clarity as if we we're doing a work or school assignment. It's probably not fair to judge a person's educational status or intellectual ability by what they're typing on a forum like this. This is forum is just for fun and to connect with other Moms ( for me at least anyways) and I'm definitely not going to be editing my statements I make on here (unless it's to add something I forgot of course)

 

[2have4kids]

Well I don't know if you're referring to me since I'm rooting for Romney, but I was private school educated and then attended one of the most prestigious universities in California. I work in the pharmaceutical industry as a Microbiologist

I suppose you *may*be one of the higher incomes that will benefit then?

Once again, I will state that feeling like government should have less of a role in business and the economy does not make you an idiot or a horrible person. It just defines your political party. To be honest, I totally agree with Romney that the states need to have more of a say and decide what works best for them. That is how the government was created to run. Every state is so unique and has individual needs, so why try to make one big system that has to now squeeze into everybody's mold? I 100% believe that we need a welfare system for those who need it. HOWEVER, I don't think it should be a "federal" system. Texas will have different needs then California and New York. Why not let each state work together and determine what they need to best take care of their people.

I think had some of the States not allow the very poor people fall through the cracks, there wouldn't be such a drug problem & so many without basic healthcare. The originating founders of America would not have wanted so much desperation, they were the decent conservatives (people who didn't have intentions of deliberately putting the middle class into the ranks of the poor.

It seems a lot of the people commenting on here are from outside the US. I'll say upfront that it's been very educations and enlightening to read everybody's opinion. However, my guess is that most people who are not US citizens are not going to have an "in depth" knowledge of American History. I'm certainly not saying everybody, just the majority I'm guessing. The US was created to be exactly that...individual states that are united by a federal government but still able to run and function within their own governments as well. It seems we've lost so much of this vision the bigger and bigger the federal government grows. I don't see how it makes me a bad person to think that welfare belongs to each state's government's agenda and not the federal government?

I agree with some of the things you say just not how to go about it.

 

[FarfromHome]

What is honestly making me puzzled is that I heard hardly a single good thing about the NHS during all the pregnancy forums, and yet people seem confused why I'm passionate about wanting to keep my own Dr? I couldn't scroll down two threads without somebody complaining about this, that or the other thing. A lot of the threads seemed to be addressing a person's feeling's of lack of care or even more upsetting lack of concern by the medical staff for something they were worried about. I'm not trying to bash anybody here, just stating factually what I read.

Honestly, that REALLY upsets me! You know what else upsets me? The fact that women are placed on wards after LO's arrival and their DH/SO etc is asked to go home. That boggles my mind. My husband didn't leave my side from the moment we stepped foot into the hospital ( except when he was running to the cafeteria to get me food!) and I have SUCH special memories that I will hold forever in my heart. He was there for every moment of DD's first night and first hours and I'm sorry but in my opinion you can't put a price on that.

There needs to be a healthcare system for those who can't afford it. I absolutely agree to this. That is one of the unalienable rights in my opinion because that is LIFE. However, why are we being forced to all go on the same healthcare plan? If I want to pay to have my own Dr. I should have that freedom. To me, I guess it's a little like saying " Well ,not everybody can afford steak so it would be best if we all ate tuna fish sandwiches every night".

Is the system right now flawed? Sure. What what in this life is perfect? Nothing. I think there is BEAUTY in a country that empowers people to get out there, do their research and find a provider that works well for them! I'm FOREVER grateful to my wonderful OB and put a lot of work into finding somebody that was going to be a great fit for our family. I worked HARD for that opportunity! ( We denied our free healthcare from the military)

I've had free healthcare and in my opinion it was awful, awful. I didn't know my Drs, I was just a number in the system, I didn't feel heard or cared about, I couldn't get appts when I needed, they were so bad at handling my miscarriages... I could really go on and on. I gladly pay my medical bills now knowing what I had before =(

 

[maryp0ppins]

What is honestly making me puzzled is that I heard hardly a single good thing about the NHS during all the pregnancy forums, and yet people seem confused why I'm passionate about wanting to keep my own Dr? I couldn't scroll down two threads without somebody complaining about this, that or the other thing. A lot of the threads seemed to be addressing a person's feeling's of lack of care or even more upsetting lack of concern by the medical staff for something they were worried about. I'm not trying to bash anybody here, just stating factually what I read.

Honestly, that REALLY upsets me! You know what else upsets me? The fact that women are placed on wards after LO's arrival and their DH/SO etc is asked to go home. That boggles my mind. My husband didn't leave my side from the moment we stepped foot into the hospital ( except when he was running to the cafeteria to get me food!) and I have SUCH special memories that I will hold forever in my heart. He was there for every moment of DD's first night and first hours and I'm sorry but in my opinion you can't put a price on that.

There needs to be a healthcare system for those who can't afford it. I absolutely agree to this. That is one of the unalienable rights in my opinion because that is LIFE. However, why are we being forced to all go on the same healthcare plan? If I want to pay to have my own Dr. I should have that freedom. To me, I guess it's a little like saying " Well ,not everybody can afford steak so it would be best if we all ate tuna fish sandwiches every night".

Is the system right now flawed? Sure. What what in this life is perfect? Nothing. I think there is BEAUTY in a country that empowers people to get out there, do their research and find a provider that works well for them! I'm FOREVER grateful to my wonderful OB and put a lot of work into finding somebody that was going to be a great fit for our family. I worked HARD for that opportunity! ( We denied our free healthcare from the military)

I've had free healthcare and in my opinion it was awful, awful. I didn't know my Drs, I was just a number in the system, I didn't feel heard or cared about, I couldn't get appts when I needed, they were so bad at handling my miscarriages... I could really go on and on. I gladly pay my medical bills now knowing what I had before =(

People who can afford it and want it do pay for private care in the UK. Also if i dont like the doctor ive seen im well within my rights to see another one.

 

[smileyfaces]

What is honestly making me puzzled is that I heard hardly a single good thing about the NHS during all the pregnancy forums, and yet people seem confused why I'm passionate about wanting to keep my own Dr? I couldn't scroll down two threads without somebody complaining about this, that or the other thing. A lot of the threads seemed to be addressing a person's feeling's of lack of care or even more upsetting lack of concern by the medical staff for something they were worried about. I'm not trying to bash anybody here, just stating factually what I read.

Honestly, that REALLY upsets me! You know what else upsets me? The fact that women are placed on wards after LO's arrival and their DH/SO etc is asked to go home. That boggles my mind. My husband didn't leave my side from the moment we stepped foot into the hospital ( except when he was running to the cafeteria to get me food!) and I have SUCH special memories that I will hold forever in my heart. He was there for every moment of DD's first night and first hours and I'm sorry but in my opinion you can't put a price on that.

Sorry for butting in but I just wanted to give a little insight in to the NHS. I think with most things, you tend to hear and remember the bad stories about everything. You will hardly ever get women coming on here just to tell people how great their last hospital appointment was or how fantastic their care was when giving birth because most of us take it for granted that we will be treated well.

Yes, of course there are bad stories about the NHS, not every single person is going to think that their experience has been wonderful. But the same can be said with anything, including private healthcare. I have read lots of American women on this forum describing some horrific experinces...however, that does not immediately make me think that private health care is a big no-no. Everyone has different experiences with everything.

What people in the UK tend to forget is that we have a FREE service and should be very greatful for our care. I certainly am, and I for one have had some fantastic experiences with the NHS. My experience on labour ward was amazing and I couldn't have paid for a better service. If anyone thinks that their service is below parr then they can request to be seen by another doctor/midwife/nurse etc and it will be done.

With regards to women being placed n wards and their hubbies being asked to leave....in the hospital I stayed, there are private rooms available (at a cost) and partners are allowed to stay on the ward from 8am until 10pm. Not really a disgrace is it? Fourteen hours with mum and baby before going home for some sleep. And the reason they are asked to leave is to minimise the amount of people on the maternity ward so as to be as secure as possible for the new baba's.

Hope this helps with any misconceptions.

 

[2have4kids]

What is honestly making me puzzled is that I heard hardly a single good thing about the NHS during all the pregnancy forums, and yet people seem confused why I'm passionate about wanting to keep my own Dr? I couldn't scroll down two threads without somebody complaining about this, that or the other thing. A lot of the threads seemed to be addressing a person's feeling's of lack of care or even more upsetting lack of concern by the medical staff for something they were worried about. I'm not trying to bash anybody here, just stating factually what I read.

Honestly, that REALLY upsets me! You know what else upsets me? The fact that women are placed on wards after LO's arrival and their DH/SO etc is asked to go home. That boggles my mind. My husband didn't leave my side from the moment we stepped foot into the hospital ( except when he was running to the cafeteria to get me food!) and I have SUCH special memories that I will hold forever in my heart. He was there for every moment of DD's first night and first hours and I'm sorry but in my opinion you can't put a price on that.

There needs to be a healthcare system for those who can't afford it. I absolutely agree to this. That is one of the unalienable rights in my opinion because that is LIFE. However, why are we being forced to all go on the same healthcare plan? If I want to pay to have my own Dr. I should have that freedom. To me, I guess it's a little like saying " Well ,not everybody can afford steak so it would be best if we all ate tuna fish sandwiches every night".

Is the system right now flawed? Sure. What what in this life is perfect? Nothing. I think there is BEAUTY in a country that empowers people to get out there, do their research and find a provider that works well for them! I'm FOREVER grateful to my wonderful OB and put a lot of work into finding somebody that was going to be a great fit for our family. I worked HARD for that opportunity! ( We denied our free healthcare from the military)

I've had free healthcare and in my opinion it was awful, awful. I didn't know my Drs, I was just a number in the system, I didn't feel heard or cared about, I couldn't get appts when I needed, they were so bad at handling my miscarriages... I could really go on and on. I gladly pay my medical bills now knowing what I had before =(

People who can afford it and want it do pay for private care in the UK. Also if i dont like the doctor ive seen im well within my rights to see another one.

Same here in Canada. The NHS provides IVF for women with infertility problems too, Canada has yet to add this in (the gov't would rather pay 4xthe cost for twin/triplet premature birth issues). I've changed my doctor 3 times. There will be complainers in each system. But in common wealth countries and most wealthy European countries there is a basic system which protects the country from having third-world issues (too much poverty, no health care, uber wealthy on the backs of uneducated poor).

By providing tuna fish sandwiches to those who can't seem to get a leg up (a system with built in compassion) we all benefit. When poverty becomes too great we have to deal with drug wars, identity theft, things that are rampant in Mexico, China, India and (after 8 years with Bush) the USA.

 

[indy and lara]

The NHS is not a free a service. It is a service which was designed to be free at the point of use which is very different. It is not free as we pay through it via taxation.

Yes the NHS has some failings but it is something which should be cherished by everyone who lives in the UK. Like many in the UK, we have private healthcare through employment but we never use it. Surely that alone should show that the NHS is not awful? My pregnancy with E was high risk. I saw my consultant from 6 weeks. By 24 weeks I was seeing her fortnightly and then by 30 weeks it was weekly. She also called me from home out of her working hours and left her mobile number when she went on holiday so that she could continue to oversee my care. It would not have been possible to receive a higher level of care.

 

[smileyfaces]

The NHS is not a free a service. It is a service which was designed to be free at the point of use which is very different. It is not free as we pay through it via taxation.

Lets not nit-pick, the service is free to use on a day to day basis, we dont go the hospital and pay for treatment. Of course it is funded somewhere (via taxation). The point I was making is that it is very different from private health care where you pay your insurance premiums etc.

ETA: that sounds really arsey, it's not meant to be

 

[smileyfaces]

Yes the NHS has some failings but it is something which should be cherished by everyone who lives in the UK. Like many in the UK, we have private healthcare through employment but we never use it. Surely that alone should show that the NHS is not awful? My pregnancy with E was high risk. I saw my consultant from 6 weeks. By 24 weeks I was seeing her fortnightly and then by 30 weeks it was weekly. She also called me from home out of her working hours and left her mobile number when she went on holiday so that she could continue to oversee my care. It would not have been possible to receive a higher level of care.

I agree, I am currently a high risk pregnancy due to problems with baby and the care I have received so far has been excellent

 

[indy and lara]

The NHS is not a free a service. It is a service which was designed to be free at the point of use which is very different. It is not free as we pay through it via taxation.

Lets not nit-pick, the service is free to use on a day to day basis, we dont go the hospital and pay for treatment. Of course it is funded somewhere (via taxation). The point I was making is that it is very different from private health care where you pay your insurance premiums etc.

I am not nit-picking thanks. People say free as if it costs people nothing and people outside the UK often talk about FREE healthcare in the UK when it isn't. As this is a thread where people are talking about different healthcare systems in different countries I do believe that it is worth clarifying how the NHS runs. Being free at the point of use was one of the founding principles of the NHS so is very important.

 

[indy and lara]

Smileyfaces, have just seen your edit.

 

[Pink Flowers]

I think Obama will win.

and in regards to the NHS... i could NEVER imagine having to pay to go see a doctor etc. In the last week I have been taken to a and e in an ambulance, had my little boy seen by a doctor and seen a doctor twice for myself. All of which I received amazing care.

 

[2have4kids]

Yes every system that provides for basics will have some things that we wish were better. In Canada we want IVF paid for, in the UK they want it faster (usually 2-3 year wait). Add human nature and you'll get people always complaining about one thing or another. The bottom line is that Canada, Scotland, England, France, Germany, New Zealand Etc. don't have issues of rampant poverty and drugs. We don't see people dying from cancer because it was deemed a prexisting condition by their insurance co that they've paid for the last 10 years. We don't see children that have been run over (thinking china now) in the street and no one helping them. Because in uncompassionate dog eat dog countries like this if you care for that child, you take the financial responsibility on for their hospital bill. The American's see this in YouTube and scoff in the comments and then incredulously vote Republican because they think he'll solve getting the 'lazy' people off the healthcare/welfare who simply don't want to work. Well,I think it's going to take them mirroring China before they learn the values of the wealthy countries.

 

[MommaAlexis]

Also note that I had a private room, no labour ward and my best friend was there the whole time. It does not mean you'd have the same as in uk.