Anyone else sick of hearing about how women are 'leaving it too late'?!

[purple_turtle]

We women just can't win;
If you don't have a job or get pregnant "too young", you're criticized.
If you have a great job and start having children "too old", you're criticized.

It's sad that this is so often the case. On top of that, women who have children young are perceived as Vicky Pollards who just wanted to get a free council house, and women who want to experience life/enjoy their career first are viewed as somehow unnatural, and judged for not being 'maternal'. Each woman / couple's situation is different to the next, and while some women undoubtedly do fall in to these stereotypes, it is surely a minority. It is annoying that so much pressure is put on women through the media on this subject - men are rarely, if ever, criticised for delaying the decision to start a family, and yet their decisions will have an impact on when women have children. Gah, I'm going to stop there before I go off on a feminist rant

 

[Pyrrhic]

I'm pretty disturbed by the comments that women who leave it too late for career reasons shouldn't be allowed treatment on the NHS if they are found to have fertility problems. The NHS is a funded service by taxes, so surely being people who will have paid more than average into the system they should be allowed to benefit? Also, who's to say these people aren't building a better life for their future child? Yes, they may work until their 30s, but you have no idea of personal circumstances, such as debt as how long it takes to pay back, and if they can afford a baby in their 20s.

Deciding who should be allowed treatment on a nationwide, unbiased service like the NHS based on personal circumstances and age is fascism, pure and simple.

 

[purple_turtle]

I'm pretty disturbed by the comments that women who leave it too late for career reasons shouldn't be allowed treatment on the NHS if they are found to have fertility problems. The NHS is a funded service by taxes, so surely being people who will have paid more than average into the system they should be allowed to benefit? Also, who's to say these people aren't building a better life for their future child? Yes, they may work until their 30s, but you have no idea of personal circumstances, such as debt as how long it takes to pay back, and if they can afford a baby in their 20s.

Deciding who should be allowed treatment on a nationwide, unbiased service like the NHS based on personal circumstances and age is fascism, pure and simple.

I agree - singling out career women to say they shouldn't be allowed to get fertility treatment on the NHS is like saying that a smoker should not be treated if they develop lung cancer. If we go down that road, only a minority of people would ever be treated for anything, as few of us have 100% perfect, healthy lifestyles. And there is no way of knowing that those women who do struggle to conceive in their late 30s/40s would have found it any easier to conceive in their early 20s. By just browsing this forum, it's clear that fertility problems can hit any woman, any man, of any age or lifestyle, and so NHS treatment should be available to all.

 

[Daisy Delayne]

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[Daisy Delayne]

It is annoying, the stigma attached to women in their thirties and older having babies. I just think women are smarter these days, and are waiting until their situation is ideal, instead of just popping out babies because that's what women do. So really, there will be a lot less crappy mothers in the future. I for one had no idea who I was or who I wanted to be when I was in my early twenties. I would have been a terrible mother. I'll be going on thirty when we TTC our first, and now that I've got myself together I know we did the right thing in waiting, even though I had ALWAYS planned to have all my babies before thirty. I think the worst thing to do is stick to a set plan, even if your situation isn't the greatest for it.

Age and planning a baby or having one unplanned has nothing to do with how 'crappy' a mother you are.

That's weirdly defensive. I'm not trying to say that all mothers who have unplanned babies are crappy mothers, and if you read what I said I didn't really imply that at all. I'm just saying less women these days are having babies just because they feel obligated to.

 

[poppy]

This does seem to be a really emotive topic!

I think it is interesting that women in general have really powerful opinions on when other women decide to TTC. I think it is a difficult issue to resolve though.

Yes, of course, women should be given the information about TTC and age and how it might affect a pregnancy. Not giving the information would just be negligent.

However, I do think that many women are really critical of women who leave it till later on in life. In fact, it is amazing how many women think that leaving TTCing till your late 20s is leaving it too late. In my opinion, that type of view is a little bit extreme. Of course, your fertility decreases as you get older...but does not dramatically decrease until you are in your mid - late 30s. Even then, there will be women who get pregnant easily and ones in their early 20s who have problems (I am by no means suggesting waiting until your late 30s to try though). I am just a bit shocked by how many people think that late 20s, early 30s is 'leaving it too late.' I don't think it is at all. I suppose our own personal circumstances influence our viewpoint in this matter - it seems like those of us who are 'oldies', in our 30s feel that late 20s, early-mid 30s is not leaving too late, whereas the early 20s mums feel that it is...it is all a matter of perspective.

I was just turned 30 (got married when I was 29) when I concieved my son and whereas, I did not want to leave it much later to start TTC, I did not feel that that age was overly aged! In fact, most of my friends my age (and a bit older) had not started having kids then (only two had), and quite a lot have had babies late on in 2009. So, I never felt that starting TTC at 30, was really old! I think I was only really aware of my 'age' when I came on to B&B and met a lot of women who were ttc in their early 20s, then I felt like an older one! I would have quite liked to have had started trying a few years before that, but my OH was not ready, as he is a few years younger than me. Also, we wanted to have secure circumstances financially before we had a baby as we wanted to be able to bring our family up without worrying about losing a wage and scrimping for every last thing.

In my opinion, I don't think the main reason women leave it till later on to have a baby is career or wanting a party lifestyle (I think that is sometimes the image portrayed by the media - selfish, shoulder pad wearing women emasculating their poor other halves into leaving procreation until their late 40s and only having a baby as an accessory is a total fallacy!). I actually think that in a lot of cases (not all), it is the men who want to have a baby free life for as long as possible (they don't have the same biological clock ticking thing that us women have). It is not like a hundred years ago, where a man felt his main objective in life was to get a wife and have a family. So, this has often meant that men have said they want to wait to their girlfriends and wives...and like others have said on another thread, we can't really force them into it. I know a good friend who has just turned 30 and is really broody but has not managed to find a solid relationship...is she to just jump into bed with a guy to become pregnant just because she has hit her 30s? She would then be left without a secure relationship to bring up a child in.

Another point I want to make (sorry, this is turning into a bit of a rant!), is that we shouldn't necessarily judge someone else's decisions. If someone is going for IVF in their late 30s, how do we know it is because they have waited until they have just left it because of career and money? They could have been TTC for years and not been successful. What if they had multiple miscarriages? Saying, 'oh you shouldn't wait too much longer, given, you know, your age' could break their heart further. A lady at my Dad's work gave birth to a beautiful baby girl when she was 49. She had IVF. She did not meet her husband until she was 38, tried for a long time to get pregnant, had many miscarriages and an ectopic pregnancy (losing a tube in the process) and eventually got pregnant on IVF with her daughter. Good for her I say!

I did not mean this to be a rant and I do think we all need to be aware of problems with TTCing in our 30s and 40s, but I do agree with the poster, that I do think that the sterotyping of 'older' mothers ttc and the scaremongering can get a bit out of hand.

xxx

 

[calm]

I think it is interesting that women in general have really powerful opinions on when other women decide to TTC.

xxx

Yes, I prefer not to judge also.

 

[rosie5637]

i think each to their own really. the decision to have a baby is down to the individual and their lifestyle etc.
we are all intelligent enough to know about any risks and about decreasing fertility to make up our own minds and shouldn't be judged by others for our choices.
i agree also that alot of the time the decision is actually taken out of the womens hands. mr right seems very elusive these days! i haven't found him yet myself.

my annoyance is slightly different though. i get sick of people telling me i've got loads of time for another baby. because i am 27 they assume it will be easy for me for a good few years yet. my mum and nan had early menopause so i am likely to follow. i've been doing my research and it points to the fact that a womans fertility takes a serious dip from about 10yrs before the menopause. this could mean i only have a couple of years of good fertility left if any at all. yet people still argue with me saying i have loads of time like they know better! coupled with the fact that i'm still single i can feel my clock ticking away constantly

i suppose people shouldn't judge a person no matter what their age, young or old.

 

[poppy]

Also, in response to those who have posted that IVF shouldn't be funded by the NHS for those older mothers who have wanted a career first...how on earth would that be implemented and work out in reality? The premise of the NHS is to give universal health care to those in the UK. You cannot judge someone for their personal circumstances. Also, what would the NHS do, put out a questionnaire to an IVF applicant in their 40s: 'Tick a) if you have put your career first or b) if you have had complications in fertility or c)if you have not found the right partner before now). I think most people would quickly wisen up to telling the NHS what they wanted to hear if it was going to prejudice their case. So not refusing to fund older mothers because of lifestyle choices would never work in reality.

 

[poppy]

i think each to their own really. the decision to have a baby is down to the individual and their lifestyle etc.
we are all intelligent enough to know about any risks and about decreasing fertility to make up our own minds and shouldn't be judged by others for our choices.
i agree also that alot of the time the decision is actually taken out of the womens hands. mr right seems very elusive these days! i haven't found him yet myself.

my annoyance is slightly different though. i get sick of people telling me i've got loads of time for another baby. because i am 27 they assume it will be easy for me for a good few years yet. my mum and nan had early menopause so i am likely to follow. i've been doing my research and it points to the fact that a womans fertility takes a serious dip from about 10yrs before the menopause. this could mean i only have a couple of years of good fertility left if any at all. yet people still argue with me saying i have loads of time like they know better! coupled with the fact that i'm still single i can feel my clock ticking away constantly

i suppose people shouldn't judge a person no matter what their age, young or old.

I suppose in individual cases these sort of things can happen. I know someone in your situation as well. She is going to push forward TTC number two because she has this in her family background as well. At least in your case and in her case, you know the situation and this will help your choices. I think in most people's case, late 20s/early 30s is not too old for TTC. Of course, some people might find that they start TTC and end up having fertility issues and you could argue that starting to TTC as early as possible so that you can resolve those issues in some way would be advised...but how would someone know who had no signs of something like endometriosis (sp?) or PCO? It seems a difficult decision in both ways - deciding to have a child before they were ready, 'just in case of problems' or leaving it till later and then finding out there were problems.

 

[lozzy21]

Also, in response to those who have posted that IVF shouldn't be funded by the NHS for those older mothers who have wanted a career first...how on earth would that be implemented and work out in reality? The premise of the NHS is to give universal health care to those in the UK. You cannot judge someone for their personal circumstances. Also, what would the NHS do, put out a questionnaire to an IVF applicant in their 40s: 'Tick a) if you have put your career first or b) if you have had complications in fertility or c)if you have not found the right partner before now). I think most people would quickly wisen up to telling the NHS what they wanted to hear if it was going to prejudice their case. So not refusing to fund older mothers because of lifestyle choices would never work in reality.

Im not saying that they should not be funded by the nhs, well i am but thats my opinion but i am not saying it should be implimented. If a women had made an informed choice no to TTC her first child untill she is 45 what do we put the upper age limit as? We then get women having her first child in her 50's/60's? paid by the nhs.

 

[Blah11]

It is annoying, the stigma attached to women in their thirties and older having babies. I just think women are smarter these days, and are waiting until their situation is ideal, instead of just popping out babies because that's what women do. So really, there will be a lot less crappy mothers in the future. I for one had no idea who I was or who I wanted to be when I was in my early twenties. I would have been a terrible mother. I'll be going on thirty when we TTC our first, and now that I've got myself together I know we did the right thing in waiting, even though I had ALWAYS planned to have all my babies before thirty. I think the worst thing to do is stick to a set plan, even if your situation isn't the greatest for it.

Age and planning a baby or having one unplanned has nothing to do with how 'crappy' a mother you are.

That's weirdly defensive. I'm not trying to say that all mothers who have unplanned babies are crappy mothers, and if you read what I said I didn't really imply that at all. I'm just saying less women these days are having babies just because they feel obligated to.

Well, I disagree.

 

[poppy]

Also, in response to those who have posted that IVF shouldn't be funded by the NHS for those older mothers who have wanted a career first...how on earth would that be implemented and work out in reality? The premise of the NHS is to give universal health care to those in the UK. You cannot judge someone for their personal circumstances. Also, what would the NHS do, put out a questionnaire to an IVF applicant in their 40s: 'Tick a) if you have put your career first or b) if you have had complications in fertility or c)if you have not found the right partner before now). I think most people would quickly wisen up to telling the NHS what they wanted to hear if it was going to prejudice their case. So not refusing to fund older mothers because of lifestyle choices would never work in reality.

Im not saying that they should not be funded by the nhs, well i am but thats my opinion but i am not saying it should be implimented. If a women had made an informed choice no to TTC her first child untill she is 45 what do we put the upper age limit as? We then get women having her first child in her 50's/60's? paid by the nhs.

I agree with you that there has to be some kind of limit - for the health of mother and child and weighing up the cost of the treatment with the likelihood of it working I suppose. What that age limit is, I have no idea.
I do think being in your late 40s/early 50s would be difficult as your body would be more vulnerable and you would be in your 70s when the baby reaches their 20s. I think most people would agree that late 40s/early 50s would probably not get funded on the NHS unless under extremely special circumstances. However, I recon that most people who go for IVF in their late 40s probably have funded it themselves and gone private and are therefore not a burden on the NHS.

I do think though late 30s/early-mid 40s candidates, should get a chance on the NHS if they struggle concieving naturally. I don't think millions of women would be doing it, so I don't think it would necessarily put a massive burden on the NHS. Like someone else posted, these women who have worked into their mid/late 30s have made a hell of a lot of tax contributions to this country and that is what helps to fund the NHS. What about the financial burden of people who are unemployed and have no intention of getting a job (I am not talking of those who are on the dole who actually are trying to get a job, that is different) and who have loads of children and claim off the state - that is more of a financial burden on the UK, in my opinion. I am a teacher and I have heard some pupils say that they have no intention of getting jobs, but are just going to go and claim the dole and have some kids to get a council flat (maybe an extreme situation in the country in general, but in the area I teach, it is sadly not uncommon).

I think my problem with some of the comments, have been people making judgements on older women (i.e 35 plus) women who are TTC as being people who have 'left it too late' because of wanting to have a big career or who have wanted to party. My point is, how do we know that that is their reason?

 

[Blah11]

Lets not turn this into a benefits debate again >.< And anyway, I work and pay taxes and I had my child before my body said no to children.

 

[pumpkim]

I agree with those that have said older women should still have the chance of fertility treatment on the NHS regardless of their reason for waiting. I'm already into my 30s and hopefully won't need any help but I'd hate to think I could be penalised because I chose not to have children until I was ready!!

I agree with you that there has to be some kind of limit - for the health of mother and child and weighing up the cost of the treatment with the likelihood of it working I suppose. What that age limit is, I have no idea.

Out of interest the NHS eligibility for IVF is women aged between 25 - 39 but individual authorities can make their own decisions, it's not recommended over age 42 due to low chances of success.

 

[poppy]

Lets not turn this into a benefits debate again >.< And anyway, I work and pay taxes and I had my child before my body said no to children.

I was actually making a general point about people's criticism of older mums getting IVF, I was not referring to any individual member's situation young or old. I don't know anybody's financial/educational/life circumstances on Baby and Bump - who pays taxes and who doesn't - and even if I did, I would never ever criticise a member.

I was also not wishing to get into a benefit debate Blah, I was actually responding to other members' comments about people's taxes funding older mums trying to get funding on the NHS (hmm, benefits debate of sort) and how the money would be better served helping young mothers who needed IVF (I didn't realise it was an either or situation with IVF and the NHS) and coming out in support of another poster's comments about people paying tax and being entitled to support. Obviously, as I have posted above, I realise it is within reason when it comes to fertility help.

My comment about people not paying taxes was actually put in as a point of comparison - as members of the UK, we are all entitled to help when we need it from the NHS. However, if people didn't want a benefit debate, comments about whether or not people should be entitled to help should not have been made...who are we to decide who is worthy and who is not, we don't know anyone's personal circumstances. Just my own personal opinion, I am not trying to sway anyone's view. Just found this debate quite interesting.

 

[DJ987]

I think the system works well in the NHS, I work in Women and childrens health and believe that the age limits in place are both fair and work well.

I have quite the opposite effect from my family when I talk about TTC they all think it's 'good' and maybe even the trend to wait until I'm in my thirties as 'that's what everyone is doing these days' I completely disagree and think that should I choose to have my children now (I will be almost 24 when we TTC) then that's my choice. Everyone says to me don't you want to get well established in your career first and wait until your thirties, but I think it'll be harder for me to take a career break later on when I have my children! It really annoys me when people criticise us women for either having children early or waiting a bit as I think it's a personal decision and people will do it when they feel it's right or when circumstances permit

 

[plutosblue]

I do find it a little harsh that the papers are always going on about how women are leaving it 'too late'. Either by choice or not by choice.
I will be trying for my first this year and I will be 22, but I have waited until I have everything I need (a house, a job, a long term relationship) however if it wasn't for my mother I probably wouldn't be able to afford this house with my partner and if I hadn't met him at the time I did I probably wouldn't be in this position and would have been waiting for years to get onto the property ladder. Maybe if the govenment made things a little bit more affordable and the cost of living wasn't so high then maybe some wouldn't have to wait so damn long.
For those that choose to wait by choice, we are all different, for me I feel ready at 22 but for others then may want to travel, get a career, enjoy life, or may not just 'feel' ready until their later years, thats entirely up to them. This world is too prejudice in general and it makes me sad as regardless we are all equals.

I personally wish good luck to all future mothers who wish to try, be it in their 20's or 50's.

 

[DJ987]

I do find it a little harsh that the papers are always going on about how women are leaving it 'too late'. Either by choice or not by choice.
I will be trying for my first this year and I will be 22, but I have waited until I have everything I need (a house, a job, a long term relationship) however if it wasn't for my mother I probably wouldn't be able to afford this house with my partner and if I hadn't met him at the time I did I probably wouldn't be in this position and would have been waiting for years to get onto the property ladder. Maybe if the govenment made things a little bit more affordable and the cost of living wasn't so high then maybe some wouldn't have to wait so damn long.
For those that choose to wait by choice, we are all different, for me I feel ready at 22 but for others then may want to travel, get a career, enjoy life, or may not just 'feel' ready until their later years, thats entirely up to them. This world is too prejudice in general and it makes me sad as regardless we are all equals.

I personally wish good luck to all future mothers who wish to try, be it in their 20's or 50's.

Here here!!

I am also 22 and have got my job, my long term relationship with my amazing other half and we have just bought our first house together. I totally agree with what you say about the government not making it particularly easy for people. We are going to TTC July 2011 and people are saying we are mad but at the end of the day we want to and are in a position where we can so why shouldn't we?

 

[Tasha]

I think too much pressure is placed on women in general, we all make individual life choices and we always are trying to do it for the best (both for us, our partners and children/future children).