Anyone planning on NOT vaccinating your baby?

[TTCBean]

Yuck, look at the ingredients: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipient-table-2.pdf

 

[misspriss]

Yuck, look at the ingredients: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipient-table-2.pdf

Goodness, the FIRST one on the list contains aborted fetal cells. It isn't just a myth of the "anti-vaxx" crowd, it's right there in black and white.

sucrose, D-mannose, D-fructose, dextrose, potassium phosphate, plasdone
C, anhydrous lactose, micro crysta
lline cellulose, polacrilin potassium,
magnesium stearate, cellulose acetate
phthalate, alcohol, acetone, castor
oil, FD&C Yellow #6 aluminum lake dye, human serum albumin, fetal
bovine serum, sodium bicarbonate, human-diploid fibroblast cell cultures
(WI-38), Dulbecco’s Modified Eagle’s Medium

The WI-38 cell line was developed in July 1962 from lung tissue taken from a therapeutically aborted fetus of about 3 months gestational age.

Also, Acetone and castor oil? What on earth are they doing in there?

ETA: Just keep reading, how many have formaldehyde in them? And guess what I see, in TONS of the lists? Thimerosal.

 

[summer rain]

We selectively vaccinate and on a very delayed schedule. My eldest had the old dtaP jab and oral polio and was fine, my middle two had the newer 5-in-1 jab and the seperate single jabs they give for various things between 2 and 4 months and they were not fine, immediately after having the first dose of the jab they started to suffer skin problems, digestive/absorption problems, allergies and a dramatic halt in growth. It took them many months to recover and my second youngest still has skin problems now, my second eldest still has some digestive problems including frequent diarrhoea for which no obvious cause has been found and he has asthma as well. With my youngest I simply couldn't take that risk so I delayed his jabs until he was nearly 2, he did have allergies when he was very small but they were less severe than those my middle two boys developed after their jabs and he outgrew them all by the age of 5-6 months. When my youngest had the jabs he had a bad allergic-type reaction at the injection site, his leg went very red, swollen and hard but otherwise he was ok. I'm so glad I delayed and I wish the NHS offered different options regarding vaccines then they would have a higher update. Apparently the newer pediacel vaccine does carry a higher risk of reactions and is licensed in very few countries and US states so why not offer the dtaP instead? It is just as effective. With polio there is now a suitable single polio injection which is just as effective as the element in pediacel and also the old live polio vaccine, it's not like the MMR where the single injections are meant to be less effective xx

 

[helena]

And for the record, I have never met, seen, or heard of anyone in my area with measles, mumps, rubella, whooping cough, or anything but chicken pox (which I had and survived just fine), in my entire life.

The world is small tho, people move around so much. Diseases know no boarders. It's thought the uk outbreak started outside the uk..us or mainland Europe.
It is all over..

Uk:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/...-babies-past-year-worst-outbreak-decades.html
Nz:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10853944
US:
https://seattlemamadoc.seattlechildrens.org/baby-dies-from-whooping-cough/

Canada...and a very good read on why to vaccinate: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/lif...sease-and-where-we-went-wrong/article4436993/

Babies like Harper Whitehead are too young to be vaccinated. They depend on others to do so. Universal vaccination creates what is called herd immunity, making it difficult for bacteria like pertussis to circulate and infect the vulnerable, like babies, the frail elderly and those with weakened immune systems.

“We’re hopeful that sharing our story will send a message to people who don’t think the disease is real and choose not be immunized or have their children immunized. This is real,” said Dani Whitehead, Harper’s grieving aunt.

 

[misspriss]

And for the record, I have never met, seen, or heard of anyone in my area with measles, mumps, rubella, whooping cough, or anything but chicken pox (which I had and survived just fine), in my entire life.

The world is small tho, people move around so much. Diseases know no boarders. It's thought the uk outbreak started outside the uk..us or mainland Europe.
It is all over..

Uk:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/...-babies-past-year-worst-outbreak-decades.html
Nz:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10853944
US:
https://seattlemamadoc.seattlechildrens.org/baby-dies-from-whooping-cough/

Canada...and a very good read on why to vaccinate: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/lif...sease-and-where-we-went-wrong/article4436993/

Babies like Harper Whitehead are too young to be vaccinated. They depend on others to do so. Universal vaccination creates what is called herd immunity, making it difficult for bacteria like pertussis to circulate and infect the vulnerable, like babies, the frail elderly and those with weakened immune systems.

“We’re hopeful that sharing our story will send a message to people who don’t think the disease is real and choose not be immunized or have their children immunized. This is real,” said Dani Whitehead, Harper’s grieving aunt.

Re: Pertussis

According to this article, the Pertussis vaccine does not prevent people from getting pertussis, only ensures they have a milder case. (I guess that is how they reason the fact that so many people are getting pertussis, even with high vaccine rates). So even vaccinated people can still get pertussis, albeit a minor case, and still give it to the unvaccinated. So in the case of pertussis, does vaccinating really work to protect the unvaccinated?

 

[Jasiellover]

Pages to check out on facebook that may help you in your decision-

Vaccine Education | Are Vaccines Safe?
vactruth.com
Health Doesn't Come In a Needle
The Vaccine Machine
In Loving Memory Of Kaylynne Mae Patricia Matten (a child that died from the flu shot)
National Vaccine Information Center
VaxTruth.Org
Vaccination Information Network (VINE)
My child's vaccine reaction
Educate4theInjured.org
MY child, MY choice.


Tons of information on these pages!

 

[CMarie]

You are going to get a lot of mixed opinions on this, and my only advice is to do your own research before deciding on anything. Whether or not you decide to vaccinate, EVERY parent has the right to be fully informed of what they are giving their child and this includes vaccines. That means knowing the side effects, adverse reactions, chances of catching the diseases, the ingredients, etc. It's a very tough decision to make.

I personally do not vaccinate my LO and he most likely never will be vaccinate. He has a severe dairy allergy that I also worry about with regards to any vaccine with fetal bovine serum in it. He is an extremely healthy little boy besides his dairy allergy --- this doesn't mean I'm saying vaccinated children are unhealthy, I just believe that there's a stigma around unvaccinated children as being full of disease which is not true at all.

For research, I would definitely start with the package inserts for these vaccines . . these will really open your eyes I think and will make you more aware of the ingredients and possible side effects. This link has links to most vaccine package inserts: https://vactruth.com/vaccine-inserts/

With regards to ingredients, I think it's worth noting that some of these ingredients are actually known to be cancer-causing, such as aluminum. Dr. Sears, the pediatrician who wrote "The Vaccine Book", even recommends using vaccines that are aluminum free.

I would also take a look at information with regards to when the vaccines were introduced and how prevalent the diseases were at the time. This link has some excellent graphs, charts, and other data: https://vaxtruth.org/2011/09/proof-that-vaccines-did-not-save-us/

Best of luck with your research! It's a hard decision to make, but I'm sure you'll do whatever is best for your babe

 

[staralfur]

If you're going to read a bunch of anti-vax sites to gather information I would urge you to also read some articles in medical journals for a more unbiased perspective. You can find both articles asserting the efficacy and safety of vaccines as well as ones pointing out the potential issues with vaccines. From there you can compare your findings and make whatever choice you think is best.

 

[helena]

Why do people without medical degrees feel they know better than medics who studied for years and work in a field why here they see the diseases and beneficial consequences of vaccines?..I don't get it. My pediatrician knows better than me!..

 

[CMarie]

Why do people without medical degrees feel they know better than medics who studied for years and work in a field why here they see the diseases and beneficial consequences of vaccines?..I don't get it. My pediatrician knows better than me!..

It comes down to the fact that I know my son better than any doctor ever will . . including those who study diseases and the "beneficial" consequences of vaccines.

It's off topic to vaccines, but my son had extensive eczema on his body through most of his short life (he's 19 months old). His previous pediatrician kept prescribing cream after cream, which we never used, and insisted that the creams would get rid of the eczema . . he never stopped to consider that eczema is actually related to allergies. Finally I insisted on an allergy test which he was extremely reluctant to give me and it turns out my son has a very severe dairy allergy. In this case did his doctor know best? Absolutely not. Creams would have only covered the real problem which could have cost my son his life.

I would also like to point out that severe food allergies are a very valid reason to not get vaccinated, especially with those vaccines containing things that your child is allergic to. How do you know what child will react to what?

 

[steph.]

Why do people without medical degrees feel they know better than medics who studied for years and work in a field why here they see the diseases and beneficial consequences of vaccines?..I don't get it. My pediatrician knows better than me!..

It comes down to the fact that I know my son better than any doctor ever will . . including those who study diseases and the "beneficial" consequences of vaccines.

It's off topic to vaccines, but my son had extensive eczema on his body through most of his short life (he's 19 months old). His previous pediatrician kept prescribing cream after cream, which we never used, and insisted that the creams would get rid of the eczema . . he never stopped to consider that eczema is actually related to allergies. Finally I insisted on an allergy test which he was extremely reluctant to give me and it turns out my son has a very severe dairy allergy. In this case did his doctor know best? Absolutely not. Creams would have only covered the real problem which could have cost my son his life.

I would also like to point out that severe food allergies are a very valid reason to not get vaccinated, especially with those vaccines containing things that your child is allergic to. How do you know what child will react to what?

You might know your child better than your doctor, but that doesnt mean you know more about diseases, chemistry, phisiology, or seen a child die because they havent been vaccinated. If you did, you wouldnt hesitate to vaccinate. Your little boy is very healthy now but in the blink of an eye, God forbid, he could not be. And if you knew that you could have prevented that by vaccinating him, how would you feel?

 

[Natsku]

Why do people without medical degrees feel they know better than medics who studied for years and work in a field why here they see the diseases and beneficial consequences of vaccines?..I don't get it. My pediatrician knows better than me!..

It comes down to the fact that I know my son better than any doctor ever will . . including those who study diseases and the "beneficial" consequences of vaccines.

It's off topic to vaccines, but my son had extensive eczema on his body through most of his short life (he's 19 months old). His previous pediatrician kept prescribing cream after cream, which we never used, and insisted that the creams would get rid of the eczema . . he never stopped to consider that eczema is actually related to allergies. Finally I insisted on an allergy test which he was extremely reluctant to give me and it turns out my son has a very severe dairy allergy. In this case did his doctor know best? Absolutely not. Creams would have only covered the real problem which could have cost my son his life.

I would also like to point out that severe food allergies are a very valid reason to not get vaccinated, especially with those vaccines containing things that your child is allergic to. How do you know what child will react to what?

You might know your child better than your doctor, but that doesnt mean you know more about diseases, chemistry, phisiology, or seen a child die because they havent been vaccinated. If you did, you wouldnt hesitate to vaccinate. Your little boy is very healthy now but in the blink of an eye, God forbid, he could not be. And if you knew that you could have prevented that by vaccinating him, how would you feel?

To be fair, depending on how severe his dairy allergy is, the risks really might outweigh the benefits for her son. Its very understandable to me not to vaccinate in cases of severe allergies (although personally I would consider still vaccinating but under specialist supervision in a hospital with epinephrine on stand-by)

CMarie - thats terrible that your doctor didn't consider allergies with your son's eczema. It was the first thing Maria's nurse said when she saw her (at that point very mild) eczema.


I don't do flu vaccines (at the moment, that depends on future circumstances) but otherwise I vaccinate fully. For most children the risks of having a bad reaction to a vaccine are very very slim but if they were to contract one of the diseases the risks of more severe or even life-long symptoms/results/damage can be pretty high (compared to the risks of vaccine-damage)

 

[A1983]

My sister is brain damaged from the whooping cough vaccine....it was over 50 years ago-she had a seizure immediately afterwards and then the damage was done-at 6 months my father says she was perfectly healthy until she had the vaccine. He had his case won at a tribunal. This scares me terribly as I am frightened to give my baby the vaccine incase its genetically a problem. ..but if I don't they could get whopping cough and women can't state enough about how dangerous this can be. Of course brain damage is worse...but all I can say is when I discuss this issue with my consultant I hope there will be a way my baby can be checked regularly if he doesn't get the vaccine (ie not turned away with me being told it's just a cough). I don't know what to do I was never given the vaccine and my mum is strongly advising me to do the same with my baby.

The new whopping cough vaccine is a different type to the old cellular one, its not without its risks of course but the risk of a serious reaction or brain damage with the new version are incredibly slim in comparison. I didn't have the whopping cough vaccine as a baby as in those days it was the cellular version and there was a genetic element involved in the risk of a reaction occurring, as epilepsy does occur in some of my dad's side of the family it was decided it was too risky for us to have it xx

Thank you for this have you given this vaccine to your child? Ideally id like to test it out first ha ha but that's not going to be an option...it's a very scary and tough decision x

 

[summer rain]

My sister is brain damaged from the whooping cough vaccine....it was over 50 years ago-she had a seizure immediately afterwards and then the damage was done-at 6 months my father says she was perfectly healthy until she had the vaccine. He had his case won at a tribunal. This scares me terribly as I am frightened to give my baby the vaccine incase its genetically a problem. ..but if I don't they could get whopping cough and women can't state enough about how dangerous this can be. Of course brain damage is worse...but all I can say is when I discuss this issue with my consultant I hope there will be a way my baby can be checked regularly if he doesn't get the vaccine (ie not turned away with me being told it's just a cough). I don't know what to do I was never given the vaccine and my mum is strongly advising me to do the same with my baby.

The new whopping cough vaccine is a different type to the old cellular one, its not without its risks of course but the risk of a serious reaction or brain damage with the new version are incredibly slim in comparison. I didn't have the whopping cough vaccine as a baby as in those days it was the cellular version and there was a genetic element involved in the risk of a reaction occurring, as epilepsy does occur in some of my dad's side of the family it was decided it was too risky for us to have it xx

Thank you for this have you given this vaccine to your child? Ideally id like to test it out first ha ha but that's not going to be an option...it's a very scary and tough decision x

Yes but only as part of a combination of vaccines and I have it delayed to my youngest because of problems with some of the minor ingredients in the combo vaccine we have here my eldest had the old dtaP (which contains the acellular pertussis vaccine in it) and was fine however that is no longer used here in the UK on the NHS for babies and young children xx

 

[summer rain]

Why do people without medical degrees feel they know better than medics who studied for years and work in a field why here they see the diseases and beneficial consequences of vaccines?..I don't get it. My pediatrician knows better than me!..

It comes down to the fact that I know my son better than any doctor ever will . . including those who study diseases and the "beneficial" consequences of vaccines.

It's off topic to vaccines, but my son had extensive eczema on his body through most of his short life (he's 19 months old). His previous pediatrician kept prescribing cream after cream, which we never used, and insisted that the creams would get rid of the eczema . . he never stopped to consider that eczema is actually related to allergies. Finally I insisted on an allergy test which he was extremely reluctant to give me and it turns out my son has a very severe dairy allergy. In this case did his doctor know best? Absolutely not. Creams would have only covered the real problem which could have cost my son his life.

I would also like to point out that severe food allergies are a very valid reason to not get vaccinated, especially with those vaccines containing things that your child is allergic to. How do you know what child will react to what?

I agree. The manufacturers insert clearly states that if a child is allergic to serum bovine albumin then that child should not receive that vaccine at all. Surely the manufacturers know their own product? Also many NHS fact sheets and leaflets for parents of children with dairy allergy have serum bovine albumin on the 'completely avoid' list so if parents of children with such an allergy are being pressured by doctors etc to give these vaccines with this ingredient it is completely wrong- but unfortunately it does happen. I only know one lady whose child reacted to the first dose of this jab and it was found to be an allergy where her doctor bothered to look into it and found that further doses if the jab should not be given. It's worrying that most doctors don't look into it further. Had my youngest not outgrown his allergy I would not have given him the jabs and would have only been following manufacturers and NHS advice. Sadly though the NHS don't provide alternative versions of jabs for allergic children so surely the blame for any poor uptake of certain jabs amongst parents whose children are allergic should lie with them? A full course of private vaccines can cost £1k plus not everyone had that kind of money xx

 

[Dragonfly]

. I find not vaccinating to be selfish and a little narrow minded.


Just my thoughts.

That disgusts me. no where else in here would you get away with saying such a reply to a mum over any subject. If I said that about stuff I felt strongly about I bet I would be banned.

 

[Piper84]

Slightly off topic, but it's interesting to see a lot of the vocal anti-vaccination mothers are American. Is this because of the Jenny McCarthy phenomenon or does it have something to do with the stronger sense of individualism and personal "freedom" - not having to consider how your actions affect others? I don't mean that to sound nasty - it's inevitable in a land where the population is pretty spread out compared to somewhere as densely-populated as England.

Or is it to do with health care? The NHS is pretty monumental and all-encompassing with all GPs working according to the same guidelines and more interested in the population as a whole than individual patients (that's the impression I always got, anyway.)

I know the UK has a comparatively high vaccination rate, and the German one is slightly lower, partly because the health service in Germany is pretty individualistic as well and homeopathy is massive here. I just thought the US vaccine rate was pretty high too? Maybe that's set to change now...

 

[Natsku]

Slightly off topic, but it's interesting to see a lot of the vocal anti-vaccination mothers are American. Is this because of the Jenny McCarthy phenomenon or does it have something to do with the stronger sense of individualism and personal "freedom" - not having to consider how your actions affect others? I don't mean that to sound nasty - it's inevitable in a land where the population is pretty spread out compared to somewhere as densely-populated as England.

Or is it to do with health care? The NHS is pretty monumental and all-encompassing with all GPs working according to the same guidelines and more interested in the population as a whole than individual patients (that's the impression I always got, anyway.)

I know the UK has a comparatively high vaccination rate, and the German one is slightly lower, partly because the health service in Germany is pretty individualistic as well and homeopathy is massive here. I just thought the US vaccine rate was pretty high too? Maybe that's set to change now...

I think it probably does have something to do with American individualism and a mistrust of authority (which is a good thing in many cases). Here there are very high vaccination rates and I'm sure that has a lot to do with the fact that people tend to trust authority here so if their doctor tells them its the best thing they will just do it and not question it. Plus people tend to be quite socially conscious here - the good of society is considered very important.

 

[CMarie]

Slightly off topic, but it's interesting to see a lot of the vocal anti-vaccination mothers are American. Is this because of the Jenny McCarthy phenomenon or does it have something to do with the stronger sense of individualism and personal "freedom" - not having to consider how your actions affect others? I don't mean that to sound nasty - it's inevitable in a land where the population is pretty spread out compared to somewhere as densely-populated as England.

Or is it to do with health care? The NHS is pretty monumental and all-encompassing with all GPs working according to the same guidelines and more interested in the population as a whole than individual patients (that's the impression I always got, anyway.)

I know the UK has a comparatively high vaccination rate, and the German one is slightly lower, partly because the health service in Germany is pretty individualistic as well and homeopathy is massive here. I just thought the US vaccine rate was pretty high too? Maybe that's set to change now...

What do you mean by the "Jenny McCarthy phenomenon"? I don't know a single parent who doesn't vaccinate their child because she has a son with autism and I hate that most pro-vaccine parents actually think that that's the reason why we don't vaccinate.

I also find that bolded part rude as well. Many parents who don't vaccinate, myself included, truly believe that our unvaccinated kids are harmless, which they are. My son's vaccination status, as well as his entire medical record, is really no else's business and it does not effect a single other person other than him, and perhaps DH and I as we are his parents making those decisions for him. It's not that we don't care about other people . . heck, he's been around a cancer patient hundreds of times (my grandfather) and around babies that are unvaccinated (yes, the parent's knew), and no one has said a single thing. The assumption that just because my son is unvaccinated means he's dirty and disease-ridden is so far from true, and to be quite frank, regardless of your vaccine status, you can still being harboring these diseases in your body and you can still spread them. We all know vaccines are not 100% effective.

I'm not sure of the vaccine rates in Canada, and out of the few times my son has seen a doctor (we don't do check-ups), only one doctor has ever asked us about his vaccine status. Canada does not have a lot of disease outbreaks either besides the flu this year, but apparently that vaccine didn't work overly well anyways. Our doctors here, I feel, are becoming more open-minded about parents not vaccinating their kids and they are being supportive by understanding that it's our choice has parents. I've never heard a doctor throw the "herd immunity" argument at me either. Our health care system here is quite different from the U.S. though and I don't think our doctors get paid for each vaccine they give.

 

[Piper84]

Slightly off topic, but it's interesting to see a lot of the vocal anti-vaccination mothers are American. Is this because of the Jenny McCarthy phenomenon or does it have something to do with the stronger sense of individualism and personal "freedom" - not having to consider how your actions affect others? I don't mean that to sound nasty - it's inevitable in a land where the population is pretty spread out compared to somewhere as densely-populated as England.

Or is it to do with health care? The NHS is pretty monumental and all-encompassing with all GPs working according to the same guidelines and more interested in the population as a whole than individual patients (that's the impression I always got, anyway.)

I know the UK has a comparatively high vaccination rate, and the German one is slightly lower, partly because the health service in Germany is pretty individualistic as well and homeopathy is massive here. I just thought the US vaccine rate was pretty high too? Maybe that's set to change now...

What do you mean by the "Jenny McCarthy phenomenon"? I don't know a single parent who doesn't vaccinate their child because she has a son with autism and I hate that most pro-vaccine parents actually think that that's the reason why we don't vaccinate.

An article entitled "The Jenny McCarthy Effect: https://www.parents.com/blogs/goodyblog/2010/11/10769/. Google the term and you'll find more like it.

I also find that bolded part rude as well. Many parents who don't vaccinate, myself included, truly believe that our unvaccinated kids are harmless, which they are. My son's vaccination status, as well as his entire medical record, is really no else's business and it does not effect a single other person other than him, and perhaps DH and I as we are his parents making those decisions for him. It's not that we don't care about other people . . heck, he's been around a cancer patient hundreds of times (my grandfather) and around babies that are unvaccinated (yes, the parent's knew), and no one has said a single thing. The assumption that just because my son is unvaccinated means he's dirty and disease-ridden is so far from true, and to be quite frank, regardless of your vaccine status, you can still being harboring these diseases in your body and you can still spread them. We all know vaccines are not 100% effective.

You're misinformed if you think your son is "harmless". I'm not going to go fishing for the articles that confirm this, and I assume you aren't either.

A large factor in many parents deciding to vaccinate their children is to contribute to herd immunity and decrease the risk of infecting other children, something that parents who don't vaccinate, by definition, don't see as that important.

I'm not sure of the vaccine rates in Canada, and out of the few times my son has seen a doctor (we don't do check-ups), only one doctor has ever asked us about his vaccine status. Canada does not have a lot of disease outbreaks either besides the flu this year, but apparently that vaccine didn't work overly well anyways. Our doctors here, I feel, are becoming more open-minded about parents not vaccinating their kids and they are being supportive by understanding that it's our choice has parents. I've never heard a doctor throw the "herd immunity" argument at me either. Our health care system here is quite different from the U.S. though and I don't think our doctors get paid for each vaccine they give.

This is why I made no comparisons between European countries and Canada. But a quick search shows that the state government where you live recommends all children be given the MMR vaccination, unless severely allergic: https://www.health.alberta.ca/documents/immunize-MMR-2012.pdf

Canada seems to experience quite a few disease outbreaks:
Measles: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2011/10/27/mtl-measlesoutbreak.html
From: https://usatoday30.usatoday.com/new...rgest-US-measles-outbreak-in-years/50852098/1

Another Thursday presentation centered on a large measles outbreak in Quebec, Canada: the largest since 1989, with 757 cases as of October 5.

That outbreak started with 18 people who traveled abroad, most to Europe. Among those infected, 505 had not been vaccinated or their vaccination status was not known, and 70 had received only one doses of the vaccine, according to the report.

https://www.globalsaskatoon.com/sas...+of+measles+in+15+years/6442740912/story.html
Mumps: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2011/06/21/bc-mumps-alert.html