At what point do I admit defeat :-(

[sarah1980]

Hi all, I'm looking for any advice, I have bf my LO exclusively since he was born and he has always taken it fine but the last week or so he has been really fussy when feeding, he will take the first fast flowing milk fine but after 7-8 minutes he stats crying and pulling and shaking his head. I persevere for as long as I can but eventually I give up as he just wont go back on the breast, if I put him on the other side he does the exact same thing.

I see a breastfeeding support worker through my GP practise and she weighs my LO at each visit, he was small when he was born (6lb 12oz) and is now 8lb 2oz. He has a red book with a graph in it and the health visitor said as long as he follows the line on the graph then they are happy but the past 2 weeks although he has put on weight it's not been much and he is starting to fall below the line. The support worker thinks that since we introduced the odd bottle of ebm, LO prefers thie bottle as it's fast flowing and he's now not willing to work to get the milk from me after the initial foremilk and as a result he isnt getting enough hindmilk and therefore not gaining enough weight.

Anyway the health visitor has suggested topping him up with formula but I really dont want to, only as a last resort would I do it. She has suggested that before I resort top topping up with formula I try topping up with ebm. I have been doing this yesterday, getting 1 - 1.5 ounces after each feed and topping him up with that and he has been quite happy but today I just cant seem to get anything out with the pump Tonight I fed LO for 45 mins keeping putting him back on and on and on trying to keep him sucking but he just gets annoyed and I dont know why???

What I'm concerned about is that there is no milk there? Is that why he is getting upset? Could he be sucking and just not getting anything? Right now my DH has him and he is screaming blue murder, it's only been 30 mins since his 45 min long feed, I'm worried he is hungry and is just not getting enough from me. Half of me wants to just go and get some formula just to satisy him, and half of me thinks no, keep trying but at what point do I give up and say there's nothing more I can do? I'm completely torn as to what to for the best for LO

Sorry thats a bit of a ramble but I'm totally confused and at a loss, I'd hate him to go all night starving.

Any advice appreciated.

Sarah xxx

 

[sarah1980]

The other thing is, I've been trying to feed him every 2 hours to boost my supply and DH thinks I'm not giving it long enough in between feeds for my milk to replenish??? I feed every 2 hours from start of one feed to start of the next feed so is he feeds for an hour then there is only 1 hour gap inbetween feeds. I just really want him to have put on enough weight for the health visitor to be happy and stopping suggesting formula, he gets weighed tomorrow.

Sarah xxx

 

[Eleanor ace]

I had a horrible time with BFing a few weeks back and I was sure I had low supply. Everyone told me that my supply was fine, my body would make what LO needed... it turns out I had retained placenta and that was causing my milk to dry up. Before this was discovered I was in tears, LO was crying wanting food, DH had to take him and try to console him for 30 minutes so I could get more milk in... horrible! I did manage to keep my supply high enough by stretching him longer between feeds (he was feeding like every 30 mins before), pumping after every feed and between 2-4am (supposed to be prime milk making time), drinking as much water as I could without being sick , eating lots of oats (I made and consumed about a tonne of flapjacks each day ) and taking fenugreek capsules. I really noticed a difference within 48hrs of starting the fenugreek. have you tried drinking loads/oats/fenugreek/blessed milk thistle?
There is medicine that doctors can prescribe but I think it's a last resort thing, but it sounds like you're at that stage! I'd definitely talk to the doctor about it if you've exhausted all your other options.
Do your breasts feel full when your milk comes in, or do you have any other signs? If you can tell when you have milk again I'd feed LO then but I might be wrong on this. But it worked for me- as soon as my breasts were sore I'd stick LO on and there'd be enough to settle him.
Oh and your LO could be having a growth spurt? I'm sure you've already thought about that but I know when my LO has had growth spurts he is sooo hungry and my milk just isn't enough for him.
I really hope things get better soon. If you need someone to talk to feel free to PM me

 

[summer rain]

Firstly its not realistic; nor is it in the guidelines that babies should follow a specific line on the chart, rather most babies will follow one space in between two lines during the first year-this is even written in the back of the red books now. Falling slightly below the centile line is absolutely nothing to worry about and babies can cross two centile lines before it is of any concern-even then the baby is in most cases just falling into a genetically pre-determined growth pattern-if your baby was born smaller they may just be meant to be petite anyway.

Another thing is it is not recommended to weigh any more often than once a month now and after 16 weeks it isn't advised to weigh until one year of age, weighing once a week is very misleading and I am surprised a BF support worker is encouraging this.

Feeding more regularly will boost your supply and it is the best way to boost your supply; its a common misconception against normal people and health professionals alike that your supply is static; so if you feed too often you will take out too much milk and your baby will not get enough-your supply will increase in response to the extra demand quickly-in addition the emptier the breast, the more fatty and calorific the milk produced is, so more hindmilk-y than foremilk-y. xx

 

[sarah1980]

Firstly its not realistic; nor is it in the guidelines that babies should follow a specific line on the chart, rather most babies will follow one space in between two lines during the first year-this is even written in the back of the red books now.

OMG - I've just pulled out his red book and read it!!! The health visitor was sat here banging on about how not following that line is something to worry about and it's written right there that it's not a problem!!! AAAAAARGH!!!! I have hardly slept for 2 nights worrying about him!!!

I was surprised and upset that the support worker suggested formula so quickly, not great support really huh?

summer rain - what is the best thing for me to do? Keep feeding every 2 hours or go longer? My boobs dont feel like they are full after 2 hours but if I go to 3/4 hours, which is what we did prior to health visitor started me panicking, they start to get full and I need to wake LO to empty them around the 4 hour mark if he's still sleeping.

Sarah xxx

 

[sarah1980]

I had a horrible time with BFing a few weeks back and I was sure I had low supply. Everyone told me that my supply was fine, my body would make what LO needed... it turns out I had retained placenta and that was causing my milk to dry up. Before this was discovered I was in tears, LO was crying wanting food, DH had to take him and try to console him for 30 minutes so I could get more milk in... horrible! I did manage to keep my supply high enough by stretching him longer between feeds (he was feeding like every 30 mins before), pumping after every feed and between 2-4am (supposed to be prime milk making time), drinking as much water as I could without being sick , eating lots of oats (I made and consumed about a tonne of flapjacks each day ) and taking fenugreek capsules. I really noticed a difference within 48hrs of starting the fenugreek. have you tried drinking loads/oats/fenugreek/blessed milk thistle?
There is medicine that doctors can prescribe but I think it's a last resort thing, but it sounds like you're at that stage! I'd definitely talk to the doctor about it if you've exhausted all your other options.
Do your breasts feel full when your milk comes in, or do you have any other signs? If you can tell when you have milk again I'd feed LO then but I might be wrong on this. But it worked for me- as soon as my breasts were sore I'd stick LO on and there'd be enough to settle him.
Oh and your LO could be having a growth spurt? I'm sure you've already thought about that but I know when my LO has had growth spurts he is sooo hungry and my milk just isn't enough for him.
I really hope things get better soon. If you need someone to talk to feel free to PM me

Thankyou! I heard about oats today so I got some porridge in and I will have a wee look in Holland and Barratt tomorrow for fenugreek, I'm willing to give it all a go!

My LO is the same, he has woken again now and is rooting around looking for his boobie, we try everything but he just wont settle til he is on the breast, even though it's only been an hour since his last feed but when he is on the breast he starts fussing again after a few mins

Sarah xxx

 

[summer rain]

I'd definitely keep up with the every 2 hours; your boobs will still have plenty of milk in them if you feed that often; they may feel softer but your boobs are never empty and are always producing. This page is a bit sciency but explains why if you feed more frequently your body will actually produce more filling milk and actually speed up production

https://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/milkproduction.html

I know from personal experience when I laid off feeding from one side overnight with my eldest in order to try and express; that your boobs will fill up like balloons if you leave them; but it will be with progressively more watery and less calorific milk. I am a bit skeptical about a BF support worker who pushes formula as a 'solution' to what she deems to be a problem caused by nipple confusion or preferring the faster flow of milk from a bottle-surely top ups; particularly of formula would make that problem worse. Personally if I was you I would just keep feeding, and keep it at every two hours. This article is so helpful (I love this doctor-he speaks so much sense!)

https://drjaygordon.com/breastfeeding/increasing-milk-supply.html

xx

 

[sarah1980]

Thanks again summer rain, I've taken advice from several of your posts in the past and it's always been helpful

I too am skeptical of the support workers easy way out, I think I will sew a couple of weights into his babygro tomorrow and be done with them

I'm off to read those articles and hopefully a 20 min snooze before the next feed

Sarah xxx

 

[sarah1980]

I'd definitely keep up with the every 2 hours; your boobs will still have plenty of milk in them if you feed that often; they may feel softer but your boobs are never empty and are always producing. This page is a bit sciency but explains why if you feed more frequently your body will actually produce more filling milk and actually speed up production

https://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/milkproduction.html

I know from personal experience when I laid off feeding from one side overnight with my eldest in order to try and express; that your boobs will fill up like balloons if you leave them; but it will be with progressively more watery and less calorific milk. I am a bit skeptical about a BF support worker who pushes formula as a 'solution' to what she deems to be a problem caused by nipple confusion or preferring the faster flow of milk from a bottle-surely top ups; particularly of formula would make that problem worse. Personally if I was you I would just keep feeding, and keep it at every two hours. This article is so helpful (I love this doctor-he speaks so much sense!)

https://drjaygordon.com/breastfeeding/increasing-milk-supply.html

xx

Excellent articles! It makes so much more sense now! I may print these off and suggest the bf support workers read them

Sarah xxx

 

[Bec27]

Have you tried winding him when he starts pulling away? It sounds like wind to me- my baby usually feeds for 5-10mins then starts pulling my nipple in his mouth and getting wriggly, I wind him then he's fine and will go back for a top up! If he's screaming and crying shortly after I would say it's likely but I'm no expert! Try winding him or using something like infacol before feeds to help get the wind out. HTH x

 

[sarah1980]

I had a horrible time with BFing a few weeks back and I was sure I had low supply. Everyone told me that my supply was fine, my body would make what LO needed... it turns out I had retained placenta and that was causing my milk to dry up. Before this was discovered I was in tears, LO was crying wanting food, DH had to take him and try to console him for 30 minutes so I could get more milk in... horrible! I did manage to keep my supply high enough by stretching him longer between feeds (he was feeding like every 30 mins before), pumping after every feed and between 2-4am (supposed to be prime milk making time), drinking as much water as I could without being sick , eating lots of oats (I made and consumed about a tonne of flapjacks each day ) and taking fenugreek capsules. I really noticed a difference within 48hrs of starting the fenugreek. have you tried drinking loads/oats/fenugreek/blessed milk thistle?
There is medicine that doctors can prescribe but I think it's a last resort thing, but it sounds like you're at that stage! I'd definitely talk to the doctor about it if you've exhausted all your other options.
Do your breasts feel full when your milk comes in, or do you have any other signs? If you can tell when you have milk again I'd feed LO then but I might be wrong on this. But it worked for me- as soon as my breasts were sore I'd stick LO on and there'd be enough to settle him.
Oh and your LO could be having a growth spurt? I'm sure you've already thought about that but I know when my LO has had growth spurts he is sooo hungry and my milk just isn't enough for him.
I really hope things get better soon. If you need someone to talk to feel free to PM me

Was just going through all my old posts to remember how I was feeling leading up to labour last time when I came across this thread. As it turned out I did have retained placenta just didn't know it at that time!

 

[noon_child]

As it turned out I did have retained placenta just didn't know it at that time!

Wow - how did you find out? Did you have other symptoms other than low milk?

 

[sarah1980]

As it turned out I did have retained placenta just didn't know it at that time!

Wow - how did you find out? Did you have other symptoms other than low milk?

Yes I just had a feeling something wasn't right and also had back to back infections. I had been back and forward to the doctors non stop and eventually referred to the gynae who discovered it and did a D&C and I've been fine since! Well apart from ongoing incontince issues but what exactly caused that is up for debate!