Bit of a rant/Any advise welcome

[chocaccino]

Hi ladies

I haven't posted a thread on here on a very long time; I used to frequent this site when I was pregnant with my first as a teen 6 years ago now. Anyhow, my partner and I are expecting, bit of shock as although I had my implant taken out we were using other methods. My partner was very shocked and although he didn't react as badly as I thought (he said he didn't want children until I am totally financially stable and by that he means having a job/owning property and although we've been in a relationship for over 3 years we don't live together). He's a self made man with two property's and a good job on good money and I have just completed a degree and have got myself a decent part time job (his idea to work around my son and childcare etc) however the whole idea of me buying a house has not worked out due to many different obstacles. With that in mind we're now trying to plan to move in (me and my son into his house) however he won't let me move in with him until I have signed a sort of “disclosure” which will give him a little more security if we were to split up (in terms of me "taking" his house) which I totally understand, but he seems less than happy that once he gets the contract drawn up I will be taking it to a solicitor to make sure it's kosher and I'm not getting completely mugged off. Now, in my mind, considering he's well off and that I will be having his child, I'd like to think he would be pretty fair to me in the event of the worst but judging by his response, I’m not sure that's going to be the case and what's more, he's now suggesting that he rent out both his properties and we all live together in my rented accommodation. It might me because I’m pregnant and emotional that I’m finding it so hard to accept that he feels he would have to take things that far in order to protect himself and his money against me in the event we break up and that he seems to be so untrust worthy of me to take it that far.

Any way, sorry for the essay ladies, just feeling a bit teary and hormonal particularly as when we were just having this (heated) discussion he shouts at me that I messed everything up by getting my implant out and he also told me earlier today he’s unable to attend our first midwife appointment. ☹

 

[froggyfrog]

That's not your hormones, he is being a jerk. You didn't make the baby by yourself, he knew your implant was taken out. It's just as much his responsibility to avoid unplanned pregnancy as it is yours. I would be pretty pissed at him if I were you, I might even say that I wouldn't want to move in together because if he is acting like that over who has their name on the lease or mortgage, he might be petty over who bought the toilet paper. I would definitely make sure all of those issues were sorted before moving in together, because those problems will just get worse.

 

[GoldenRatio]

Okey im hormonal and maybe im overreacting too but i wouldnt sign anything.

I personally think if u are carrying his child, then u own what he has. You carry the baby, you go thru all the pain then when u have the baby, u cant work. Which means u cant move on with ur career to buy properties because you are busy taking care of him and his child. So im pretty sure you deserve everything he has.

Also you dont go into a relationship thinking you may split up, im sorry but i found the whole thing wrong. Lets say u sign it and move in with him, how if he doesnt treat you good and how if you cant leave because you got no money or place to go. Protect urself and ur kids hun

 

[Moom7900]

Sorry, but I think he's being a selfish idiot! Right now, his priority should be protecting you and the baby, not his assets and finances. He needs to put on his big boy pants and grow the hell up xxxxxx

 

[Myshelsong]

I am blown away by not only his attitude, but a little bit that you were going along with the "plan" that he made for you. You guys have been together three years, if he doesn't know what kind of hard working, independant, wonderful person you are, he never will. It is going to Sind harsh but don't move in with him and if he wants to move in with you make sure he is going to be paying rent, and giving you money for utilities, food ect.

I would be crazy hurt that this person is treating you like a money grubbing opportunist, you have been dating for three years and are pregnant with his child. That is a crazy long game if you ask me. Maybe it is time to decide if he is what you want, instead of trying to be who he wants.

Just my opinion. Good luck Hun, big hugs.

 

[DobbyForever]

Devil's Advocate here... Don't bring out the pitchforks please

I disagree. People who have worked hard to get what they want are very wary of others coming in and benefitting from their life's work. I say this personally and having observed it.

My mother remarried to a man who owned multiple properties and made bank. They agreed that he would not be financially responsible for my brother or myself, that my mom was expected to provide for us via my father's insurance money. Despite living together and having his children, he would not put her name on his properties and when they went to buy a place together they signed on as business partners rather than as a married couple. All of his previous properties will be split between his biological children. My mom, brother, and I are not in his will. she is on some things now but it took a long time. But that is because his first wife screwed him over. They were married over 20 years but split when their teenage son died and no amount of couples therapy could help them.

Personally, I am a homeowner. My parents (my stepfather contributed most of the down and acted as my broker) helped with my down payment. People ask why I am suddenly ok not being legally married to SO. Aside from tax purposes, why would I want to give him claim to a house he did not earn? Even if we married or he moved in, this unit is off limits to him unless he buys into it.

We plan to marry legally once a child is born, but there will be a prenup and I have already signed a document with my parents stating what needs to be done/paid if I add anybody to my title. They were even nicer than I am with the amount.

So my point is I grew up in a very wealthy neighborhood and everyone I know acts like this. Especially if the pregnancy was a surprise to him. The best you can do is talk to him about how you feel, but there's not a whole lot you can do unless you get married. I would definitely take it to a lawyer. My stepdad (attorney) looks over everything I sign before I sign it. Don't let him take that away from you or guilt you out of it.

 

[maryanne1987]

I'm sorry I totally agree with the other ladies. Even the part where you said he didn't want to have children till you had a job, owned property etc? That's really really strange and personally wouldn't allow any man to set boundaries on a relationship like that. You totally deserve a man who will love and provide for you and your children not a man who treats you like a money grabbing opportunist. His priorities should lie with making sure you and his child are safe and not his properties. I get he's probably worked very hard to get where he is but after 3 years and a child on the way, I think the way he's acting is shocking.

 

[DobbyForever]

I don't think it's odd at all for him to want that though. He obviously worked hard and wants a certain lifestyle for his kids/ wants to be sure he isn't being used financially. My SO wouldn't be with me if I wasn't successful in my career the same way I wouldn't be dating him if he wasn't successful in his career. Men of that caliber are attracted to women who are independent. They like to know their partner doesn't need them. Plus, there are lots of women out there trapping men with a kid giving girls a bad name. But I think it's more about him wanting to provide the best life for his kids and that involves both him and his partner being ready.

And nobody wants to go into a relationship expecting it to fail. But you hope for the best and prepare for the worst. Like I said, look at my stepdad. He and his first wife divorced because they couldn't cope with the sudden unpredictable death of their child and she took half his stuff and huge alimony despite contributing nothing financially their entire marriage.

 

[Amygdala]

I agree with most others here. If you've been together 3 years, he should be able to decide whether he thinks it's for keeps and he can trust you. If he needs a legal document, there's something lacking with his commitment to you I think. I also agree with the point above that you'd be making yourself very vulnerable by moving in on the understanding that if you split up, you get nothing. It doesn't sound like he would help you find your feet under those circumstances so personally, I think you'd be safer to stay in your rental place and not risk your independence. I would also make sure that he pays child support from day one. You're carrying and birthing his child and by the sounds of it will be the main caretaker, so he needs to contribute financially, especially while your ability to earn money is compromised.
Honestly, I find it sad when people are so worried about their material assets. What's the point in having a lot of money if you can't share it with people you love? For me personally, his attitude would be a complete deal breaker. I'm not by any means saying to should be for you of course, only you can know if it bothers you. But I find it pretty offensive and small minded.

 

[DobbyForever]

It's not about trust. And her having his kid doesn't entitle her to things he accomplished before her if he doesn't feel that way. The law is on his side here unless they get married. My stepdad was a fantastic supporter and stepdad, and my mom went through this

Also, keep in mind he is likely getting advice from his parents, friends, and own arsenal of financial/legal advisors. Outside looking in, if one of my friends told me his girlfriend was making a stink about getting his stuff if they break up then I'd be telling him to run for the hills because it looks shady on paper not knowing all the details.

But like I said... Talk to him. Have a lawyer look it over. And decide how much it really bothers you. Take some time to think about what you want and what you think is reasonable, then discuss it with him. Just don't sign anything without an attorney looking it over.

 

[maryanne1987]

I think it's just a difference of opinion though isn't it. I personally wouldn't be ok with it and would find it totally unacceptable. I grew up in a very poor family. Although worked very very hard and climed the career ladder. By 18 I owned my own property in a very wealthy neighbourhood and had made a name for myself in my chosen career. When I met DH he had very little. For me money doesn't come in to it though. I love my DH for the person he is, not his job, or how successful he is. I love the fact he works a job he hates to keep money coming in, how he never rings in sick even if he's extremely unwell, how he spends so little on himself while providing the children with everything they need. No if you look at it on paper he wouldn't be considered as succesful as me career wise, yet he works harder at his job than I ever have. Sure some people are attracted to success and like to date people who are in a similar financial position to themselves but I personally would rather a man who loved and supported me regardless of finances. We have been put to the test so much over the years and I couldn't have wished for a more supportive husband. I just feel after 3 years op's partner should have a little more trust in her not to use him for financial gain. If he doesn't trust her after 3 years when will he trust her? I personally couldn't be in a relationship where money was such an issue.

 

[Miss_Cellany]

Basically he's asking for a prenup without you actually getting married. That's sort of understandable. The reason that women get half of the man's assets financially if there is a divorce is due to the fact that women traditionally couldn't build careers and make their own money as they were raising children and looking after their husband. So the argument was that they did contribute just as much as the men wouldn't have been so successful without the woman's support and sacrifice of her own career. A prenup is there to protect earnings that the woman never contributed to as they weren't in a relationship at the time.

Now, that's just the traditional view and obviously times have changed. What you need to work out is whether he's asking to protect what he had before you or whether he's saying none of what he has will ever be yours and your unborn child's. Because that is absolutely not on. You're having his child so will probably never have the opportunity to make as much as him. And he has just as much responsibility for that child as you do. So he cant get out of financially contributing.

Are you in the UK? If you are, unless you're married you have no rights to anything that only has his name on anyway unless you're married. So his properties in his name will never be split between you in the event of a break up. In fact you'll get nothing. So I'd be making your own savings anyway to make sure you have a get out plan.

 

[chocaccino]

Thank you ladies for all your posts, I always find it helpful listening to other people's opinions and getting a wider prospective. As I've told him, it's not the actual finances, facts and figures that upset me (although I feel he does need to contribute to a certain degree), I get that he needs to protect his assets. My problem is the way he has handled the situation and spoken to me, his negative attitude towards the relationship and baby and sudden lack of trust. To me, it's like he's gone past the point of taking precautions to protect himself and has completely lost trust and faith in our relationship. Up until this point he's been extremely supportive, particularly as I've been undertaking my degree and have a son already but throwing this pregnancy in my face as though he had nothing to do with it and couldn’t care less about it is very upsetting. At this point I feel we should just continue to keep living separately.

 

[vix1972]

I have read this with interest. I had 12 years in legal offices and often came across this with couples buying a property who were not married. The signed a declaration of trust which is a deed showing if they split how the property should be split fairly taking into account what each person put in financially. This is a standard document and all solicitors recommend it.

I agree you should go to a solicitor to have them look at the document and would say to your boyfriend that if it were him he would surely do the same especially if he had to personally provide a roof over the heads of two children. Another thing worth mentioning is that a solicitor will pick up on anything that is poorly worded or not clear. This would work both ways so it would also help him to have someone else look at it.

I can see where he is coming from with this. I own my property and have done for two and a half years but my other half does not. This suits me fine as I went through a bad divorce 18 years ago which left me homeless and staying at my parents with my then 2 year old. I am happy that I have property in my own name and when we move to a bigger place in 2018 I will keep the property and rent it out so I will always have a roof over my head.

Good luck and H & H 9 months x

 

[DobbyForever]

I'm sorry love. Trust your gut. If you think living separately is best for now, then that's the way to go. Hopefully as the pregnancy progresses and the shock wears off he will remember all the reasons he loves you and wanted to be with you. Hugs hugs

 

[2have4kids]

I have read this with interest. I had 12 years in legal offices and often came across this with couples buying a property who were not married. The signed a declaration of trust which is a deed showing if they split how the property should be split fairly taking into account what each person put in financially. This is a standard document and all solicitors recommend it.

I agree you should go to a solicitor to have them look at the document and would say to your boyfriend that if it were him he would surely do the same especially if he had to personally provide a roof over the heads of two children. Another thing worth mentioning is that a solicitor will pick up on anything that is poorly worded or not clear. This would work both ways so it would also help him to have someone else look at it.

I can see where he is coming from with this. I own my property and have done for two and a half years but my other half does not. This suits me fine as I went through a bad divorce 18 years ago which left me homeless and staying at my parents with my then 2 year old. I am happy that I have property in my own name and when we move to a bigger place in 2018 I will keep the property and rent it out so I will always have a roof over my head.

Good luck and H & H 9 months x

Vix1972, question for you. My bil refused to sign a prenup, bought properties with his wife and when she divorced him her family had put all of her and her family's wealth into a Trust. It was protected against the discoveries process in the divorce, so she got a nice chunk of his RRSP's and pension. They dplit their properties but she refused to work for a certain length of time so she got alimony (she knew the exact amount of time to wait and issued divorce papers that week). If OP refused to sign, could he draw up his stuff & wealth into a Trust that's protected from divorce? I don't know that I'd sign anything, being pregnant with his child you have the upper hand. I wouldn't move into one of his homes, I'd ask him to go in with me and put a down payment on a home under both names. Let him rent his properties out. But make sure he's investing in you and your family with him, just as you are by having his child and working to support your kids.

 

[vix1972]

Hi 2Have4kids,

I can see where you are coming from and I am based in the UK so do not know the legalities in the US. However, yes if OP did refuse to sign the boyfriend could look at ways and options to protect as much as he can. I dealt purely with property and did not work in a divorce dept for 12 years. My divorce was painful and even with that my then husband had the property solely in his name (he had it when we met) but he had been planning to get rid of me for a while and had stopped paying the mortgage on purpose so that the property would be repossessed and I could not live there nor make a financial claim!! All I can ever say to anyone is get professional advice. You do not have to launch into legal action/divorce/drawing up papers and deeds! It is a bloody minefield and if there is a way of legally protecting your wealth or property your solicitors will let you know. Through work I have seen those who thought their partner would never do anything like that to them lose huge amounts of their property, wealth and lifestyle and on the other side i have seen the ones (normally men strangely enough) who will get as much advice as they can to keep as much as they can away from their partners!!

 

[2have4kids]

Hi 2Have4kids,

I can see where you are coming from and I am based in the UK so do not know the legalities in the US. However, yes if OP did refuse to sign the boyfriend could look at ways and options to protect as much as he can. I dealt purely with property and did not work in a divorce dept for 12 years. My divorce was painful and even with that my then husband had the property solely in his name (he had it when we met) but he had been planning to get rid of me for a while and had stopped paying the mortgage on purpose so that the property would be repossessed and I could not live there nor make a financial claim!! All I can ever say to anyone is get professional advice. You do not have to launch into legal action/divorce/drawing up papers and deeds! It is a bloody minefield and if there is a way of legally protecting your wealth or property your solicitors will let you know. Through work I have seen those who thought their partner would never do anything like that to them lose huge amounts of their property, wealth and lifestyle and on the other side i have seen the ones (normally men strangely enough) who will get as much advice as they can to keep as much as they can away from their partners!!

Sorry you went through that, what a scumbag! Thanks for the commentary, I completely agree there's no harm in getting advice. People are sneaky and when you have kids, protecting yourself and therefore them is no. 1 priority.

 

[vix1972]

Thanks Choccacino and 2have4kids. The worst thing was when I first moved into my parents they borrowed a travel cot for my dd but all I had was an old mattress on the floor which their dog slept on!! I can laugh about it now but it was a very trying time in my life. choccocino do what you feel is right absolutely no one can make this call for you. I hope it all works out for you x