"British soldiers burn in hell"

[LulaBug]

i think its horrible, and the fact they have the cheek to do that here is outrageous! if we did that in there country we would have been shot dead. if they dont like our beliefs they should f**K off back home!

Urgh I'm sorry but I fucking hate this argument. In this country we have freedom of speech and that is something we should be proud of, whether or not I agree with their protest (which by the way I most certainly do not) Im glad that we have the right to do so without being fucking executed! I hate these 30 protesters because they are going to fuel tension between British people and British Muslims, I have seen on facebook people now seem to feel they have an excuse to air their racist, xenophobic feelings against Muslims, some of the things I've read are awful. 30 extremists DO NOT speak for an entire religion.

Unfortunately it feels like THEY get all the freedom of speech they want but when it comes to us, we get naff all!!
I guarantee you, the police wouldn't have been protecting us if we decided to make a protest against them, like they were protecting those who participated in that disgusting "protest"!!
Sadly seems to be one rule for one and one rule for another! Not freedom of speech at all if you ask me, or even if you don't lol! xx

I am sorry but where do you people get this nonsense from? The police regularly provide protection for BNP marches, rallies and conferences where they wax lyrical about extremist Islam and the terrible threat it is. So what evidence do you have to say it's one law for them and another for everyone else?

OK, we'll test the theory, start a protest against muslims actions and see whose side the police are on there because I guarantee you, any attempt to make a protest about that would result in those people being silenced. But because it's muslim people making a massive song and dance about absolutely everything and doing all they can to be offensive, it's alright! That's my evidence right there. Start a protest yourself, you'd be deemed racist and all things hateful and guaranteed no police protection but when they do it, people get pissed off but yet protect them. Not right in my view! Just my opinion.

But that's what the BNP do. And they get police protection. So can you please explain again what your point is? You can have an opinion but the FACT is that neo nazi demonstrations are protected by the police in this country.

And please clarify if you mean all Muslims or extremists otherwise this will get into very messy territory.

Neo Nazi's have a political point to make that they believe is valid and they are protected in that belief, as are the muslims. They feel they have a political point to make or even a religious argument to protest for. This is freedom of speech and will ALWAYS be protected by the law. BUT they do not have the right to that protection if they are going to stand there and burn a symbol that shows the hardship that men and women of this country and others went through and continue to go through.
If the BNP or Neo Nazi's on their rallies in this country went around burning muslim flags or effigies then they would be hated for it and people would be up in arms about it, so why are we not allowed to get up in arms about it when a bunch of extremists start burning poppies. Surely this would count as a hate crime and therefore should not be defended by the law because if a member of the BNP on a march stood there and burnt something symbolic to the muslims, there would be uproar.
The right to freedom of speech and protest is part of english law and is protected but what they did regarding the burning of the poppies should not in any way shape or form allow them the protection of the law. They should have immediately been arrested for that because that is not freedom of speech, that is antaganism.

And for the record, I don't label all muslims in this way as I know a fair few, they are liked and they are embarrassed that people from their culture are engaging in these types of activities. It's people like the extremists that demean the values of freedom of speech in the first place.

If this has been the other way round and it had been english protesters in a muslim country and burning something symbolic to them, there'd have been uproar and there'd have been retaliations against all british citizens and foreign nationals country, but if it happened over here and british people started to retaliate against the muslim extremists, there'd be uproar by people who would blame those who are retaliating and call the police to protect the muslim extremists, but all that needs to be done is arrest the people who were burning the poppies to show that this behaviour will not be tolerated and does not come under freedom of speech.

This is why I feel, it is one law for them and another for everyone else. You wanted evidence, there you go!

 

[Dopeyjopey]

i think its horrible, and the fact they have the cheek to do that here is outrageous! if we did that in there country we would have been shot dead. if they dont like our beliefs they should f**K off back home!

Urgh I'm sorry but I fucking hate this argument. In this country we have freedom of speech and that is something we should be proud of, whether or not I agree with their protest (which by the way I most certainly do not) Im glad that we have the right to do so without being fucking executed! I hate these 30 protesters because they are going to fuel tension between British people and British Muslims, I have seen on facebook people now seem to feel they have an excuse to air their racist, xenophobic feelings against Muslims, some of the things I've read are awful. 30 extremists DO NOT speak for an entire religion.

Unfortunately it feels like THEY get all the freedom of speech they want but when it comes to us, we get naff all!!
I guarantee you, the police wouldn't have been protecting us if we decided to make a protest against them, like they were protecting those who participated in that disgusting "protest"!!
Sadly seems to be one rule for one and one rule for another! Not freedom of speech at all if you ask me, or even if you don't lol! xx

I am sorry but where do you people get this nonsense from? The police regularly provide protection for BNP marches, rallies and conferences where they wax lyrical about extremist Islam and the terrible threat it is. So what evidence do you have to say it's one law for them and another for everyone else?

OK, we'll test the theory, start a protest against muslims actions and see whose side the police are on there because I guarantee you, any attempt to make a protest about that would result in those people being silenced. But because it's muslim people making a massive song and dance about absolutely everything and doing all they can to be offensive, it's alright! That's my evidence right there. Start a protest yourself, you'd be deemed racist and all things hateful and guaranteed no police protection but when they do it, people get pissed off but yet protect them. Not right in my view! Just my opinion.

But that's what the BNP do. And they get police protection. So can you please explain again what your point is? You can have an opinion but the FACT is that neo nazi demonstrations are protected by the police in this country.

And please clarify if you mean all Muslims or extremists otherwise this will get into very messy territory.

Neo Nazi's have a political point to make that they believe is valid and they are protected in that belief, as are the muslims. They feel they have a political point to make or even a religious argument to protest for. This is freedom of speech and will ALWAYS be protected by the law. BUT they do not have the right to that protection if they are going to stand there and burn a symbol that shows the hardship that men and women of this country and others went through and continue to go through.
If the BNP or Neo Nazi's on their rallies in this country went around burning muslim flags or effigies then they would be hated for it and people would be up in arms about it, so why are we not allowed to get up in arms about it when a bunch of extremists start burning poppies. Surely this would count as a hate crime and therefore should not be defended by the law because if a member of the BNP on a march stood there and burnt something symbolic to the muslims, there would be uproar.
The right to freedom of speech and protest is part of english law and is protected but what they did regarding the burning of the poppies should not in any way shape or form allow them the protection of the law. They should have immediately been arrested for that because that is not freedom of speech, that is antaganism.

And for the record, I don't label all muslims in this way as I know a fair few, they are liked and they are embarrassed that people from their culture are engaging in these types of activities. It's people like the extremists that demean the values of freedom of speech in the first place.

If this has been the other way round and it had been english protesters in a muslim country and burning something symbolic to them, there'd have been uproar and there'd have been retaliations against all british citizens and foreign nationals country, but if it happened over here and british people started to retaliate against the muslim extremists, there'd be uproar by people who would blame those who are retaliating and call the police to protect the muslim extremists, but all that needs to be done is arrest the people who were burning the poppies to show that this behaviour will not be tolerated and does not come under freedom of speech.

This is why I feel, it is one law for them and another for everyone else. You wanted evidence, there you go!

As far as I'm aware there isn't a 'Muslim flag' to burn. There is no evidence in your argument, it is what you think would be done in each situation and to be honest it shows that you don't really know the facts. It is people airing views like yours that increase the 'them and us' attitude which just isn't necessary. You make it sound like there is a small minority of Muslims that are not extreme - it is the other way round.

 

[LulaBug]

i think its horrible, and the fact they have the cheek to do that here is outrageous! if we did that in there country we would have been shot dead. if they dont like our beliefs they should f**K off back home!

Urgh I'm sorry but I fucking hate this argument. In this country we have freedom of speech and that is something we should be proud of, whether or not I agree with their protest (which by the way I most certainly do not) Im glad that we have the right to do so without being fucking executed! I hate these 30 protesters because they are going to fuel tension between British people and British Muslims, I have seen on facebook people now seem to feel they have an excuse to air their racist, xenophobic feelings against Muslims, some of the things I've read are awful. 30 extremists DO NOT speak for an entire religion.

Unfortunately it feels like THEY get all the freedom of speech they want but when it comes to us, we get naff all!!
I guarantee you, the police wouldn't have been protecting us if we decided to make a protest against them, like they were protecting those who participated in that disgusting "protest"!!
Sadly seems to be one rule for one and one rule for another! Not freedom of speech at all if you ask me, or even if you don't lol! xx

I am sorry but where do you people get this nonsense from? The police regularly provide protection for BNP marches, rallies and conferences where they wax lyrical about extremist Islam and the terrible threat it is. So what evidence do you have to say it's one law for them and another for everyone else?

OK, we'll test the theory, start a protest against muslims actions and see whose side the police are on there because I guarantee you, any attempt to make a protest about that would result in those people being silenced. But because it's muslim people making a massive song and dance about absolutely everything and doing all they can to be offensive, it's alright! That's my evidence right there. Start a protest yourself, you'd be deemed racist and all things hateful and guaranteed no police protection but when they do it, people get pissed off but yet protect them. Not right in my view! Just my opinion.

But that's what the BNP do. And they get police protection. So can you please explain again what your point is? You can have an opinion but the FACT is that neo nazi demonstrations are protected by the police in this country.

And please clarify if you mean all Muslims or extremists otherwise this will get into very messy territory.

Neo Nazi's have a political point to make that they believe is valid and they are protected in that belief, as are the muslims. They feel they have a political point to make or even a religious argument to protest for. This is freedom of speech and will ALWAYS be protected by the law. BUT they do not have the right to that protection if they are going to stand there and burn a symbol that shows the hardship that men and women of this country and others went through and continue to go through.
If the BNP or Neo Nazi's on their rallies in this country went around burning muslim flags or effigies then they would be hated for it and people would be up in arms about it, so why are we not allowed to get up in arms about it when a bunch of extremists start burning poppies. Surely this would count as a hate crime and therefore should not be defended by the law because if a member of the BNP on a march stood there and burnt something symbolic to the muslims, there would be uproar.
The right to freedom of speech and protest is part of english law and is protected but what they did regarding the burning of the poppies should not in any way shape or form allow them the protection of the law. They should have immediately been arrested for that because that is not freedom of speech, that is antaganism.

And for the record, I don't label all muslims in this way as I know a fair few, they are liked and they are embarrassed that people from their culture are engaging in these types of activities. It's people like the extremists that demean the values of freedom of speech in the first place.

If this has been the other way round and it had been english protesters in a muslim country and burning something symbolic to them, there'd have been uproar and there'd have been retaliations against all british citizens and foreign nationals country, but if it happened over here and british people started to retaliate against the muslim extremists, there'd be uproar by people who would blame those who are retaliating and call the police to protect the muslim extremists, but all that needs to be done is arrest the people who were burning the poppies to show that this behaviour will not be tolerated and does not come under freedom of speech.

This is why I feel, it is one law for them and another for everyone else. You wanted evidence, there you go!

As far as I'm aware there isn't a 'Muslim flag' to burn. There is no evidence in your argument, it is what you think would be done in each situation and to be honest it shows that you don't really know the facts. It is people airing views like yours that increase the 'them and us' attitude which just isn't necessary. You make it sound like there is a small minority of Muslims that are not extreme - it is the other way round.

I shall leave it there then. I for one do not wish to be seen as someone hateful. I aired my opinion, I stated what I felt was evidence enough with regards to the subject. It's not something I wish to end up in an argument over.
To be honest, this is something that will never truly be agreed on and I accept that so I'll be walking away from it. I don't wish to be at loggerheads with anyone or cause offence as this isn't what I use the forum for. xxx

 

[Dopeyjopey]

I understand your overall sentiment, and i'm not saying you're a nasty person, just that such strong words can have a negative effect.

And i'm sure redpoppy won't mind me pointing out that if you read the whole thread you will see that it is VERY unlikely she'd start a protest about Muslims

 

[redpoppy]

i think its horrible, and the fact they have the cheek to do that here is outrageous! if we did that in there country we would have been shot dead. if they dont like our beliefs they should f**K off back home!

Urgh I'm sorry but I fucking hate this argument. In this country we have freedom of speech and that is something we should be proud of, whether or not I agree with their protest (which by the way I most certainly do not) Im glad that we have the right to do so without being fucking executed! I hate these 30 protesters because they are going to fuel tension between British people and British Muslims, I have seen on facebook people now seem to feel they have an excuse to air their racist, xenophobic feelings against Muslims, some of the things I've read are awful. 30 extremists DO NOT speak for an entire religion.

Unfortunately it feels like THEY get all the freedom of speech they want but when it comes to us, we get naff all!!
I guarantee you, the police wouldn't have been protecting us if we decided to make a protest against them, like they were protecting those who participated in that disgusting "protest"!!
Sadly seems to be one rule for one and one rule for another! Not freedom of speech at all if you ask me, or even if you don't lol! xx

I am sorry but where do you people get this nonsense from? The police regularly provide protection for BNP marches, rallies and conferences where they wax lyrical about extremist Islam and the terrible threat it is. So what evidence do you have to say it's one law for them and another for everyone else?

OK, we'll test the theory, start a protest against muslims actions and see whose side the police are on there because I guarantee you, any attempt to make a protest about that would result in those people being silenced. But because it's muslim people making a massive song and dance about absolutely everything and doing all they can to be offensive, it's alright! That's my evidence right there. Start a protest yourself, you'd be deemed racist and all things hateful and guaranteed no police protection but when they do it, people get pissed off but yet protect them. Not right in my view! Just my opinion.

But that's what the BNP do. And they get police protection. So can you please explain again what your point is? You can have an opinion but the FACT is that neo nazi demonstrations are protected by the police in this country.

And please clarify if you mean all Muslims or extremists otherwise this will get into very messy territory.

Neo Nazi's have a political point to make that they believe is valid and they are protected in that belief, as are the muslims. They feel they have a political point to make or even a religious argument to protest for. This is freedom of speech and will ALWAYS be protected by the law. BUT they do not have the right to that protection if they are going to stand there and burn a symbol that shows the hardship that men and women of this country and others went through and continue to go through.
If the BNP or Neo Nazi's on their rallies in this country went around burning muslim flags or effigies then they would be hated for it and people would be up in arms about it, so why are we not allowed to get up in arms about it when a bunch of extremists start burning poppies. Surely this would count as a hate crime and therefore should not be defended by the law because if a member of the BNP on a march stood there and burnt something symbolic to the muslims, there would be uproar.
The right to freedom of speech and protest is part of english law and is protected but what they did regarding the burning of the poppies should not in any way shape or form allow them the protection of the law. They should have immediately been arrested for that because that is not freedom of speech, that is antaganism.

And for the record, I don't label all muslims in this way as I know a fair few, they are liked and they are embarrassed that people from their culture are engaging in these types of activities. It's people like the extremists that demean the values of freedom of speech in the first place.

If this has been the other way round and it had been english protesters in a muslim country and burning something symbolic to them, there'd have been uproar and there'd have been retaliations against all british citizens and foreign nationals country, but if it happened over here and british people started to retaliate against the muslim extremists, there'd be uproar by people who would blame those who are retaliating and call the police to protect the muslim extremists, but all that needs to be done is arrest the people who were burning the poppies to show that this behaviour will not be tolerated and does not come under freedom of speech.

This is why I feel, it is one law for them and another for everyone else. You wanted evidence, there you go!

I'm sorry but you haven't posted any evidence just opinion. As for Muslim countries, I'm not really sure they are the "ideal" we should be comparing ourselves to.

 

[feisty_filly]

i think its horrible, and the fact they have the cheek to do that here is outrageous! if we did that in there country we would have been shot dead. if they dont like our beliefs they should f**K off back home!

Urgh I'm sorry but I fucking hate this argument. In this country we have freedom of speech and that is something we should be proud of, whether or not I agree with their protest (which by the way I most certainly do not) Im glad that we have the right to do so without being fucking executed! I hate these 30 protesters because they are going to fuel tension between British people and British Muslims, I have seen on facebook people now seem to feel they have an excuse to air their racist, xenophobic feelings against Muslims, some of the things I've read are awful. 30 extremists DO NOT speak for an entire religion.

Unfortunately it feels like THEY get all the freedom of speech they want but when it comes to us, we get naff all!!
I guarantee you, the police wouldn't have been protecting us if we decided to make a protest against them, like they were protecting those who participated in that disgusting "protest"!!
Sadly seems to be one rule for one and one rule for another! Not freedom of speech at all if you ask me, or even if you don't lol! xx

thank you thats the point i was trying to get across

 

[PeanutBean]

Lulubug you have an interesting notion of what a right to free speech and protest entails. Just because you and most likely the majority of people think burning a poppy is a heinous crime doesn't make it so. I think you'll find there are all kinds of people who don't like the remembrance process/symbols not just some small group of Muslim extremists. A minority view doesn't make it one that shouldn't be allowed to be expressed.

And as redpoppy says, what's the point in comparing the state response to such a thing to a country run entirely differently and (to generalise) most likely not a democracy and certainly not one with free speech?

And if you're concerned about the reaction to 'disgusting protests' you need look no further than the government and police response to the mild violence at the student protests. The police have even gone so far as to close down websites offering advice. No sign of free speech there!

 

[PeanutBean]

Sorry LulaBug, on my phone and just seen I got your username wrong.

 

[LulaBug]

To be honest, it just feels like that any remembrance process us as british citizens undertake to remember our fallen soldiers, the extremists have to piss all over it!
There was a march planned a few months back, I can't remember exactly where, but I remember there was a lot of uproar because the muslim extremists were planning to hijack that too.
All people want to do is remember those who have laid their lives down and it's like their view is that we're not allowed to do that so they'll stand and be as disrespectful as they possibly can about it. How is that fair? Why can people not be pissed off about that and say so without fear of offending those who are antagonising those in the first place?

That's why I feel it's one sided, I might be wrong, I might not be presenting the facts enough but from my perspective, it's how I feel. xxx

 

[OmarsMum]

I just want to clarify that Islam is not a "culture" it's a religion. I live in a muslim multi cultural country but we don't share any of their cultural practices or beliefs. We share the same religion when it comes to basics but other than that everything else is different.

Where I'm originally from we have arab christians & muslims living in one country sharing the same origins & culture. We have churches & musques all around the country, It's not a multi-cultural country. 90% of the population are natives.

The country is ruled by national socialism (which does not include religion in government issues). Muslims & Christians are treated equally. Freedom of speech is not allowed in the name of religion. U have the right to practice whatever religion you want, but when it comes to national security there is a huge red line that is not allowed to be crossed. Any protests should be organised & supervised by the government, activists/extremists always end up in jail & some get deported even if they'r originally from the country.

The majority of muslims practice Islam as a religion & they live normal civil lives. The word Islam comes from "Peace", when we great people we say " Al Salam Allaykom", which means Peace and Health. We are taught that people are born equally & the true Islam promotes peace.

All what's going on under the name of Islam those days are purely politics to aggrivate hate among societies & to give powerful countries reasons to invade the privacy of other coutnries in the name of fighting terrorism.

I respect countries that allow freedom of speech, but all those reports about removing a pig toy from a toy farm, hallal meat in schools, burning poppy, etc will only spread hate among those who live in the same society

 

[PeanutBean]

LulaBug there's nothing wrong with being pissed off about it at all, my point was just that freedom of speech means real freedom even when the majority think what others say/do is abominable. Any line drawing is curtailing that freedom. Though again we don't actually have a true freedom of speech in this country anyway. Maybe nowhere actually does.

 

[andbabymakes3]

I haven't read through every single post on this thread (cos it's late and my eyes hurt!) but I have to agree/comment on what PeanutBean said...

LulaBug there's nothing wrong with being pissed off about it at all, my point was just that freedom of speech means real freedom even when the majority think what others say/do is abominable. Any line drawing is curtailing that freedom. Though again we don't actually have a true freedom of speech in this country anyway. Maybe nowhere actually does.

Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing - in some ways. However, that means you also have to listen to the opinions of those who may, to you, have utterly abhorrent views. You don't have to agree, nor accept their views. But if we want freedom of speech...you can't pick and choose.

The fact that Nick Griffin was allowed a prime time slot on Newsnight, and was allowed to air his views, and is allowed air time on the news etc to air his views means that it isn't one sided - nor is it one rule for them, another for us.

I found the burning of the poppy distasteful, offensive and generally quite uncomfortable. But I am also fiercely anti war and believe that 'our' troops and those of the USA have done some things in the Iraq/Afghan war that I also find distasteful, offensive and generally quite uncomfortable.

JMHO.

 

[annawrigley]

To be honest, it just feels like that any remembrance process us as british citizens undertake to remember our fallen soldiers, the extremists have to piss all over it!
There was a march planned a few months back, I can't remember exactly where, but I remember there was a lot of uproar because the muslim extremists were planning to hijack that too.
All people want to do is remember those who have laid their lives down and it's like their view is that we're not allowed to do that so they'll stand and be as disrespectful as they possibly can about it. How is that fair? Why can people not be pissed off about that and say so without fear of offending those who are antagonising those in the first place?

That's why I feel it's one sided, I might be wrong, I might not be presenting the facts enough but from my perspective, it's how I feel. xxx

By that do you mean all Muslims?

Because I dont think anyone cares about offending that group of 30 odd extremists who were the ones who antagonised in the first place??