Can't send books to prisoners

[Natsku]

Saw this on facebook the other day https://www.politics.co.uk/comment-...as-grayling-banned-prisoners-being-sent-books I'm sure I can't be the only one that thinks this is a terrible and sad idea

 

[x Michelle x]

I'm sure i read somewhere that books were going to be a privelege... ie reward for good behaviour? They would get books, but it has to be earned?

 

[Natsku]

I just read that on buzzfeed. I still don't think that makes it any better. Books ought to be the one thing they can always access as they can be so beneficial.

 

[x Michelle x]

I get what you're saying, but i honestly believe that a murderer, or a paedophile should have no such privileges. If someone murdered or raped someone i'm close to, i would happily see them left in a cell for 24h. IMO, if you destroy someones life, you deserve no life of your own.
However, petty criminals, blue collar criminals and young kids who have made bad decisions should absolutely not be treated like that. They need rehabilitation and help. And if bettering themselves, or expanding their learning through books can be achieved then they should absolutely be allowed to do so.

 

[Natsku]

I see what you mean about privileges for the worst of the worst but privileges tend to makes things easier for the guards, less trouble if they have something to do with their time. Making books a privilege for the rest is just so so wrong. I can't imagine how it must be to be locked in a cell without something to occupy your mind, I know I would go crazy and that would hardly make me a better person when I come out.

 

[lhancock90]

I get what you're saying, but i honestly believe that a murderer, or a paedophile should have no such privileges. If someone murdered or raped someone i'm close to, i would happily see them left in a cell for 24h. IMO, if you destroy someones life, you deserve no life of your own.
However, petty criminals, blue collar criminals and young kids who have made bad decisions should absolutely not be treated like that. They need rehabilitation and help. And if bettering themselves, or expanding their learning through books can be achieved then they should absolutely be allowed to do so.

I agree with all of this. If you are a cold blooded murderer you should be locked away 24/7, alone, with basic food, water etc.
However pettier crimes, they need rehabiliation, they need to be punished at the same time as having their lives turned around and when they leave they leave a better version of themselves, i think books are important for that.

 

[Yammas]

Before I read this I thought it was a security issue to prevent smuggling but if its a privilege thing im not sure how many would be bothered seeing as most have tvs and games consoles to occupy them.

 

[Natsku]

Before I read this I thought it was a security issue to prevent smuggling but if its a privilege thing im not sure how many would be bothered seeing as most have tvs and games consoles to occupy them.

Well I assume tv and games consoles will be privilege things too. It would be really messed up if tv and games consoles were normal and books only privileges! Literacy levels are bad enough in prisons but to discourage reading even more isn't going to help.

 

[vaniilla]

I think it's very sad, reading does so much and it's true power is that it can change how people think and feel, prison is about rehabilitation and surely anything that helps should be promoted?

 

[Yammas]

Good point Natsku weve only heard about books so far so I guess well have to wait n see with the amount of uproar I cant see it lasting long tbh.

Im on the side of rehabilitation I feel that they should get the opportunity to better themselves with books and education being part of that.

 

[Natsku]

Everything has been banned from being sent in. Kids can't sent their parents birthday cards, can't send underwear (which is apparently an issue in women's prisons). I understand smuggling things in is an issue but there must be ways to deal with that without stopping things being sent in altogether.

 

[pinkpolkadot]

I think this is a huge step backwards, how sad. Personally I think prison should be about rehabilitation (where possible) and not punishment so this is only going to be counterproductive.

 

[Noodlebear]

If you commit a crime, in my opinion, you forfeit your right to everything except very basic human needs. I think the world of books, poetry, films, holidays, games etc and if I did something that warranted me going to prison I don't see why I should still enjoy any of those luxuries. My cousin is in prison and they can work for a low wage and buy privileges, so really all he did was ask someone to send him some cash and hey presto! It's a joke. I think we'd have less crime in the world if prisons would toughen up a bit and act as more of a deterrent. It's something that really irritates me.

 

[Natsku]

If you commit a crime, in my opinion, you forfeit your right to everything except very basic human needs. I think the world of books, poetry, films, holidays, games etc and if I did something that warranted me going to prison I don't see why I should still enjoy any of those luxuries. My cousin is in prison and they can work for a low wage and buy privileges, so really all he did was ask someone to send him some cash and hey presto! It's a joke. I think we'd have less crime in the world if prisons would toughen up a bit and act as more of a deterrent. It's something that really irritates me.

I doubt it. Countries with tougher prisons tend to have more crime not less (the US for example, or Russia)

 

[Noodlebear]

I don't think the US and Russia are very good examples at all although we could learn a thing or 2 from the US' justice system. (excluding the death sentence)

 

[pinkpolkadot]

Noodlebear, I can see why most people think that harsher prison conditions will deter criminals, it comes from the age old idea of punishment ingrained into society. However looking at the stats it is just not the case.

Here are some stats comparing Nordic countries with more liberal prison systems (Noway in particular) with the rest of Europe...

- The average re-offending rate across Europe is 70-75%
- In the UK, more than 1/2 of all prisoners re-offend within 2 years of their release
- In Denmark, Sweden and Finland the average re-offending rate is 30%
- The Norwegian average re-offending rate is 20%
- Bastoy Prison’s (paeticularly liberal prison in Norway) re-offending rate 16%

Source: University of Sheffield Enterprise

It makes sense really, if we accept that the majority of prisoners have some sort of mental health issue then locking them up in harsh conditions with nothing to do is obviously going to exacerbate that and leave them even more messed up.

 

[Noodlebear]

Mental health issues are, sadly, becoming increasingly popular in our world. Unless the issue hinders their understanding of right and wrong it's a total cop out for them to have any 'needs' taken into consideration that would set them apart from other offenders. It is also insulting to the vast majority of people living with similar conditions who still abide by the law because everyone is perfectly capable of doing so. I'd be distraught if I was locked away by myself, if I couldn't enjoy my life to the full so y'know what? - I think I'll do as I should and get by in life. For me it's just that simple. The money wasted giving people 'treats' who quite frankly don't deserve them could go towards helping deserving families out of poverty or bettering our NHS etc.

Sorry but those 'stats' are just a rather pointless bunch of numbers that don't really do much for your cause. For example, many European countries operate so differently, chucking them all under 1 umbrella doesn't do much for the validity of those numbers unfortunately. It's more about how each country works than what continent it's on and you'd have to look into SO much more than just the prison systems and re-offending rates to get a proper and reliable study out of that.

 

[Natsku]

Thanks for posting the stats, I'm too hungover to look things up

 

[Natsku]

Mental health issues are, sadly, becoming increasingly popular in our world. Unless the issue hinders their understanding of right and wrong it's a total cop out for them to have any 'needs' taken into consideration that would set them apart from other offenders. It is also insulting to the vast majority of people living with similar conditions who still abide by the law because everyone is perfectly capable of doing so. I'd be distraught if I was locked away by myself, if I couldn't enjoy my life to the full so y'know what? - I think I'll do as I should and get by in life. For me it's just that simple. The money wasted giving people 'treats' who quite frankly don't deserve them could go towards helping deserving families out of poverty or bettering our NHS etc.

But the idea is to stop the criminals from committing more crime and the only way to do that is either lock them up forever or try and rehabilitate them. You can't rehabilitate someone by treating them badly, you just make them worse that way. The people with mental health issues that commit crime quite likely have not been getting the help and treatment they need so that they can manage their issues unlike the people who don't commit crime.

 

[pinkpolkadot]

Mental health issues are, sadly, becoming increasingly popular in our world. Unless the issue hinders their understanding of right and wrong it's a total cop out for them to have any 'needs' taken into consideration that would set them apart from other offenders. It is also insulting to the vast majority of people living with similar conditions who still abide by the law because everyone is perfectly capable of doing so. I'd be distraught if I was locked away by myself, if I couldn't enjoy my life to the full so y'know what? - I think I'll do as I should and get by in life. For me it's just that simple. The money wasted giving people 'treats' who quite frankly don't deserve them could go towards helping deserving families out of poverty or bettering our NHS etc.

I think you have missed my point about mental health and every single case is different so you can't use the fact that some people get by OK as an illustration. I was trying to explain that letting people rot in a cell with nothing to do is only going to make someone's mental state worse (actaully that is true for someone without mental health problems too but prob to a lesser extent) and therefore they are more likely to reoffend.

If spending more money on prisoners works to stop them reoffending then surely looking at those rates I posted it is going to save a lot more money in the longrun that can go to other places.