Chinese Accupuncture

[Vonn]

Thanks for the support, ladies, I really appreciate it! Actually my lining was 6 something, so 9 would have been great. Oops. Well, got the go-ahead, triggered last night and have IUI on Friday. I hope we catch that egg!

 

[nobump]

Good luck vonn. Let the sperm meet the egg.

My blood count is ok hgb was 125. But opting to go private to try and get to the bottom of this. Will try to get an appointment for week after next. Hoping my weekend away for my dreaded 40th will do us both good.

How's everyone else doing? Xxxx

 

[Briss]

ladies, I hope you are well.

nobumb, I am very sorry you are still struggling with the bleeding. I so hope your private appointment will help you get to the bottom of this issue. At least your blood count is OK. Have a lovely weekend away!! you know what they say life begins at 40 and I hope for you a new little life will begin soon. you so deserve it.

Blythe, thinking of you all the time and so hope you get good news soon. The more I read the more I realise that your situation is just very unusual, you and your DH have everything in place to make a healthy baby so I am just not sure why it has not happened yet. age is of course an issue but not so much in your case based on your stats. there must be something else. can it be that you and your DH are genetically similar? have you/DH done any karyotyping tests? although still seems unlikely cos you have done it once so you should be able to do it again.

re blood type diet, I have seen a few people getting a lot of success with this diet not just weight loss wise but more about getting rid of allergies and feeling more energetic. I personally could not do it. My diet is simple eat good stuff and cut out the bad one. so when I read that I should not eat broccoli or cauliflower cos they are not good for my blood type I kind of resent that

BUT there is a super important genetic thing that I recently discovered. as you know I have been in agonising search for the reason for my MMC so I have done a lot of research and did lots of blood tests including some genetic ones. and it turns out I have certain genetic mutation:

Thrombosis Panel:
1. COAGULATION FACTOR II gene / Prothrombin gene Factor II (F2) (20210 G>A) polymorphism c.*97G>A. Result: G/G (polymorphism variation predisposing to the development of thrombosis is not detected)
2. COAGULATION FACTOR V gene / Factor V Leiden (F5) (1691 G>A) polymorphism c.1601G>A. Result: G/G (polymorphism variation predisposing to the development of thrombosis is not detected)
3. 5,10-@METHYLENETETRAHYDROFOLATE REDUCTASE gene MTHFR (677 C>T) polymorphism c.665C>T. Result: C/C (polymorphism variation predisposing to a breach of folate cycle is not detected
4. 5,10-@METHYLENETETRAHYDROFOLATE REDUCTASE gene MTHFR (1298 A>C) polymorphism c.1286A>C. Result: A/C (polymorphism variation predisposing to a breach of folate cycle in heterozygous form is detected)
5. METHIONINE SYNTHASE REDUCTASE gene (MTRR). RR (66 A>G) polymorphism c.66A>G Result: G/G (polymorphism variation predisposing to a breach of folate cycle in homozygous form is detected)
6. 5-@METHYLTETRAHYDROFOLATE-HOMOCYSTEINE S-METHYLTRANSFERASE gene (MTR) R (2756 A>G) polymorphism c.2756A>G. Result: A/G (polymorphism variation predisposing to a breach of folate cycle in heterozygous form is detected)
7. Lupus anticoagulants: Negative

I know it all looks too complicated trust me I broke my brain trying to figure out what tests i need to do and then trying to interpret the results. This is just a tiny part of the tests I have done actually. but they are the only ones that showed an issue (although most likely not relevant to my MMC). I am sharing it here because it turns out this might be relevant to all of you. I always wondered at ladies taking baby aspirin and all that endless discussion on Folate vs. Folic Acid. I trusted the ladies here and twitched to Folate without quite understanding why but now I know the reason. it's all in the genes! Turns out at least half of European population have these genetic mutations. I am luckily my MTHFR (677 C>T) is OK but I am in the minority, actually dominant variant in Europe is a mutation of this gene - that's where baby aspirin comes in. because the genes above are genetic blood clotting tests.

there is some very good information from knowledgeable FF ladies in here https://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=334866.0 but generally except for blood clotting issue these mutations point towards me not processing B12/folic acid as well as I should and as we know the deficiency in these vitamins plays a huge part in infertility and mc. with my mutations I probably process around 50-60% so not too bad (ladies with MTHFR (677 C>T) mutation only process around 10%!) and I have been empirically supplementing with the right kind of Folate. that's why I do not think it played a role in my MMC but nevertheless, I strongly believe we should reconsider what type of vitamin B12 we are taking in our supps: it must be methylcobalamin (NOT cheaper synthetic version - cyanocobalamin) and make sure you take folate (methylfolate) and not folic acid. basically half of us do not process B12 in cyanocobalamin form and folic acid so it tends to build up in our system causing all sorts of issues.

btw I checked Fertilaid that I have been giving to my DH and was very pleased that it had the right B12 form methylcobalamin - that's why it's more expensive but I am so pleased I switched to it because B12 is super important for sperm and Dh was taking at least 1,000 a day.

I won't bore you with my other test results cos I have not yet figured out what they mean but most likely nothing interesting.

generally, after my extensive research on the reasons for my MMC it does seem that a sporadic chromosomal error due to egg quality due to age (or as medical profession puts it "bad luck") is the most likely cause. and there is nothing you can do about it. stim IVF where you get a few embryos to chose from is an answer but unfortunately my ovaries are against stims so going natural IVF route exposes us to this risk. sperm quality can also play a role but it's mainly the egg that's doing all the work on shifting chromosome around so while faulty sperm is a possibility, egg chromosomal error is just more likely. I feel angry I did not work it out when I was 35-36, we would have had better chances.

I sent all my results to Munich and waiting for their verdict i.e. if I need blood thinners etc and I also begged (again!) to start IMSI as soon as I get AF. waiting for their response. I had a scan that was all clear and my urine pregnancy test was negative so I really feel we can start again.I do not want to change the clinic because these guys did get us pregnant on the first go so i want to try with them again.

 

[Briss]

Vonn, best of luck with your IUI!! I really hope it works this time, have everything crossed for you. do not lose hope over your lining and clomid you just never know when it's going to work. this might easily be your lucky egg and things will work out somehow. i really hope so.

also i think they usually give some additional oestrogen for the lining before O. worth checking.

I still have chest pain on my right side, I am going to GP (again!) next week to ask for a specialist cos it starting to get to me. I did a ct scan and it actually showed that my lungs are fine so it must be something else, maybe a nerve. interestingly they found i have a broken rib on my left side?? how do you break a rib and not notice i guess I am in such emotional pain from infertility/MMC that a thing like a broken rib can easily come unnoticed...

re thyroid. there is so much conflicting info I am getting tired of this. I want to see an endocrinologist again to discuss if TSH could have played a role in my MMC (although i think it's unlikely). My TSH levels during pregnancy were fluctuating between 2.4-3.4 or something like that and T4 was around 14 when MMC was confirmed but before it happened. I think these levels although not ideal but OK.

having said that our knowledgeable FF ladies strongly believe TSH levels outside the range of 0.4-2 together with low normal FT4 are associated with significantly lower chances of live birth e.g., with IVF:

"An over or under active thyroid can significantly reduce your chances of conception even if it is still within the ‘normal’ range for the NHS. For example, the NHS will currently not treat a TSH level of 4 mIU/mL (= 4 IU/L) as requiring any medication for hypothyroid (because of its cost/benefit analysis). However, studies have shown that anything over 2 mIU/ml (=2 IU/L), especially where anti-thyroid antibodies are present is associated with a lower chance of a live birth.

e.g. https://www.ajog.org/article/S0002-9378(06)00365-6/abstract
https://www.gghjournal.com/volume26/1/pdf/ab14.pdf

https://www.thyroid.org/professionals/publications/clinthy/clinthy_v237.pdf

So in my opinion, infertility patients should ask their GP for a basic thyroid screen and if, for example the TSH comes back at over 2 mIU/ml (2 IU/L) or high levels of antithyroid antibodies are present, seek advice from an endocrinologist who has experience with infertility or an immune fertility doctor as you may need to be prescribed thyroxine to reduce your TSH to below 2 mIU/ml. In the study above, where IVF patients had a TSH level greater than 2.5 mIU/ml and did not have FT4 levels in the high normal range, they were prescribed 50mcg per day of levothryoxine from the first day of IVF stimulation which lead to greatly improved pregnancy and live birth rates (reduced miscarriage rates) compared to similar ladies who where untreated.

DURING PREGNANCY the American Thyroid Association recommends TSH is maintained to:

First Trimester, TSH 0.1 – 2.5 mIU/L

Second Trimester, TSH 0.2 – 3.0 mIU/L

Third Trimester, TSH 0.3 – 3.0 mIU/L"

there more info in here: https://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=242395.20

Having said that i just read a book avoiding miscarriage by susan rousselot where she says that hypothyroidism is a condition that is no longer linked to miscarriage!! apparently recent studies have found no evidence that women with thyroid decease experience recurrent pregnancy loss more often than women with normal thyroids. however, antithyroid antibodies are still associated with higher miscarriage risk. not sure yet what to make of this. it goes against everything I knew about thyroid and pregnancy. although I think what she probably means is that ladies who have normal thyroid and ladies with hypothyroid but on medication have the same pregnancy outcome which makes sense cos there is no difference as long as you take your hormone. however what about borderline ladies who are not on any medication. are they at a greater risk as FF ladies claim? definitely worth another visit to endocrinologist

 

[Blythe]

Briss - i all really interested in vitamins at the moment and think i mentioned before that i have been taking these:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005JAT3TU?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00

i am very interested in good food source vitamins and your advice about folate vs folic acid is very sound advice. I steer well clear of the vitabiotics range although having said that the last 3 months DH has been taking the wellman ones.

His sperm has gone from an average of 17-19m to 57m two months ago to 62m last week! He has been drinking alot recently but actually less than he was on a regular basis this time last year. I brought a smoothie maker which he loves and puts loads of hemp seeds, coconut oil, frozen fruits and gogi berries - maybe it is those that has made the difference but im happy because he is older and has been cycling lots.

The volume is still low but the other parameters are quite good. We had the sperm frozen and i received the bill after and they have had the cheek to stick on a £150 admin charge!!!!!!!!!! I could swallow £30 but this much......This was not made clear to me at any point during a number of conversation around deciding to freeze the sperm. I am furious. I am already paying £360 for the stuff to be frozen. I think it is very bad business practice and it has left a very bad taste in my mouth about this clinic now. I have spent near on 30K over the last 5 years so you would think it an insignificant sum but its the principal. Desperate women will pay for anything but to stick a fee like that on the end on an invoice really pissed me off - can you tell?!?!

Im not sure re the genetics but most things have crossed my mind. I have DDT around ovulation every month for 5 years [minus IVFs prep and IUI etc] and only one chemical. Anyhow, i am focused and committed to a new exercise plan and i have been running loads - this first time i have during the 2WW in all these years and it feels bloody good. I am doing this blood type diet (80% on 20% off) in the hope of addressing any inflammation etc and taking these in the hope they will do the same:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00HW1L752?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00

My DH has had enough and wants his life back. I can keep trying naturally but the treatments will end this year for me for certain.

Your results are fascinating - on the basis of what you have found so far are you going to consider baby aspirin? I do take it myself - not every day but most days. Pomegranate juice is a good blood thinner and yum too.

I hope and pray that Munich give you the green light for next cycle. I know that natural IVF comes with its own risks but you know that your eggs will not have been compromised through drugs. I hope that this next cycle will give you your take home baby - you deserve so much to be happy

 

[Blythe]

Good luck vonn. Let the sperm meet the egg.

My blood count is ok hgb was 125. But opting to go private to try and get to the bottom of this. Will try to get an appointment for week after next. Hoping my weekend away for my dreaded 40th will do us both good.

How's everyone else doing? Xxxx

nobump - is hgb haemoglobin? I think going private is the best way forward - you should not have to do that but you must be desperate. I hope you have a wonderful weekend away and are able to enjoy your birthday.

 

[StaceyM]

Hi everyone. I was bored and randomly reading the end of this thread, but now that I have read it I feel compelled to add some information. I have autoimmune thyroiditis, which means that at one point I was exposed to something that caused my body to attack itself, create antibodies, and impact my thyroid production. It was high when it first happened, and then went into a low phase, which is a common progression for thyroid disease. Yes, it runs in my family as well. A normal TSH range is between approximately 0.5 and 5 (depending on who you ask), and this varies from person to person. I take 50mcg of thyroxin per day and my TSH is usually between 4 and 5.5, which means my thyroid production is a bit low, but nothing problematic. I may eventually have to raise the dose, but a TSH of 5 or so should absolutely NOT impact your ability to get pregnant. I am concerned by what some of your doctors are telling you. 2.8 is NOT high by any stretch of the imagination, and if your doctor tells you it is, you need to find a new doctor. 2.8 is absolutely perfect! I'm sorry for being so blunt, but that is simply incorrect information. I am 39, with thyroid disease and got pregnant in one month with a TSH of 5. Realistically, unless you get a result much higher than that (6+) you should not think that it will impact your fertility or pregnancy. When you get pregnant, thyroid production does increase and your TSH number does then decrease in tandem, in the first trimester. Mine lowered to 2.6 early in my pregnancy. Thyroid disease is so ridiculously over-diagnosed, especially in the US. Your levels fluctuate by two points just by having a cold! It is perfectly normal. Unless there is a medical reason for a low/high thyroid (Hashimotos, autoimmune thyroiditis, Graves disease), and unless you have been measured multiple times over an extended time period, anything in the range of 0.5-5.0 is not a concern. It is more dangerous to take thyroid supplements when you don't need them. High thyroid is just as medically dangerous (actually more so!) than low thyroid. You should never take thyroxin if you don't need it. You should also note that eating a poor diet is generally the cause of low thyroid production if there is no medical reason for this drop (i.e. see above - medical reasons include Hashimotos, Graves, autoimmune thyroiditis, all of which show up in you blood). A poor diet suppresses your immune system and may affect your adrenal system (see adrenal fatigue as someone here mentioned), which in turn affects other systems. Sorry to get so worked up, but any doctor who tells a patient that 2.8 is low makes me upset. Remember that the information in one medical journal is not sufficient to reach a conclusion. Many sites that I have seen, especially from American sources, consistently rate a TSH of 3.5-4 as high. This is not supported by the general medical community. 4 is the higher end of normal and may warrant further investigation and monitoring, but that it all. I'm sorry to be a know-it-all, but concentrating on something that is not a problem, will undoubtedly delay your discovery of the real problem.

 

[nobump]

Hi all.

Hgb is hemoglobin.

Just arrived at hotel DH has done good. If I manage to remain spotting he might get lucky!

So much info posted today and hello staceym will read once I am home not good o the eyes with my tiny phone.

Xx

 

[Vonn]

nobump--have a wonderful time! I hope you only spot & are able to have a good time.

Briss--So good to hear from you. You certainly have been busy, doing lots of research and testing. Thanks for sharing. I'll have to check on my B12. There definitely is a controversy about folic acid vs. folate. I will be really interested to see if Munich gives you the go-ahead for next cycle. So long as everything has cleared, I can't imagine why they wouldn't.

Blythe--I'm sorry to hear that DH is not interested in pursuing treatments. You are both doing so many good things, I hope so much that you get your bfp. Please don't give up hope...it will happen for you!!

Stacey--Thank you sharing your perspective. There are certainly lots of opinions about thyroid diagnosis and treatment. I do have to respectfully disagree with some of your points. Mainly, I believe we are all bio-individual and there is not a one-size-fits-all answer. I do not have any autoimmune cause, which is the case for 10% of the people with thyroid problems. But I do have a thyroid problem. It is just as real as your thyroid problem, though certainly less (old school) textbook. I had a TSH of 5 and 5.2, and was very sick with classic low thyroid symptoms (hair falling out, terrible constipation, bleeding gums, fatigue, luteal phase defect, etc., etc.). Because of my short luteal phase, I 100% believe that at a TSH of 5, I was rendered infertile...unable to conceive. You were able to get and stay pregnant at this number, but I could not. If this doesn't prove that the TSH is not a good enough measure on it's own, I don't know what would.

The TSH was absolutely not telling the whole story for me. My T4 was/still is converting at too high a rate into reverse T3, and I had/have not enough of the active T3 hormone doing the necessary work in my body. You may not believe this is possible. I went to doctors who were dismissive of my symptoms because my numbers weren't "bad enough." Luckily, I found an MD who is more progressive. And as a result, I am finally getting some relief with a combo of T4 and T3 meds. Not all the way there, but on my way.

And there are licensed, competent doctors and professinal organizations that argue a TSH of 5 is high. At one point the AACE and the NACB recommend(ed) a lower upper range. (The AACE has gone back and forth about it.) People on both sides of this issue can present findings to support their beliefs. More work needs to be done to understand what really is normal, and even more important than that, what is optimal. Because of my personal experience, I believe that future research will result in establishing a lower range for the TSH. I can imagine you probably feel otherwise. Time will tell.

I certainly don't mind educated people, which we both seem to be, having different opinions. But if by referring to yourself as a know-it-all, you are implying that I (or any other ladies) don't know about which we write, I beg to differ. Two years ago, I began this journey with a dismissive doctor who would have agreed with everything you wrote. If I would have stayed with her and "just watched" my thyroid, I would still have a luteal phase of 8 days, making implantation impossible. Luckily, I trusted my gut and looked elsewhere for an MD. Thank goodness I was persistent because I "discovered" the real "problem" actually is my thyroid. We don't all get to follow the straightforward path to thyroid diagnosis and treatment. I so wish it had been that way for me. I would have spent much less time thinking I was a crazy, aging, hypochondriac, and worrying about how I would ever get well.

 

[Briss]

Blythe, I was checking your Garden of Life, Vitamin Code, Raw Prenatal, they look good I take it they are all natural, not synthetic forms? although they do not specify the form of B12 but it should be the correct one, although I still take a much higher dose 1,000 of B12 and 1,000 of Folate daily additionally. but this may change after I had a chance to discuss this with a specialist.

However it does have Red Algae, I am not sure about anything that has iodine although most prenatal have some.

MTHFR ladies recommend Thorne brand. but their prenatal has vitamin A in it which I am slightly uncomfortable with.

I think to be on the safe side it's probably better to have several brands and mix them up

I am so impressed with your DH's improvement in SA!! who knows but it may as well be the cycling (although we are recommended to stay well clear of it). it could be those smoothies but my DH loves goji berries and can eat the entire 1 kg pack in one go! did not ever do anything to his SA though. when I got pregnant his SA was 1 million

I am appalled about £150 admin charge! They should have made it clear! is there any way you can refuse to pay it? i know sometimes they can waive admin charges and because they did not mention it before they should consider waiving it if they want to retain your custom.

I made a conscious decision not to sum up everything we spent in the last 4-5 years TTC. that number would just cause me to be depressed. but when I can I do try to save cost. I did my immune/blood clotting tests abroad for a fraction of what it would cost here. the entire thing cost me something like 250 pounds (flights/accommodation were free though)

I am inspired by your new exercise plan!! I may finally dust off my J Fonda DVD today a few books I read on MTHFR says that sweating off toxins via sauna or exercise is great actually.

re baby aspirin, I am in two minds about blood thinners, when I was pregnant I had regular bloods and the nurse kept asking me if I was on some kind of strong blood thinners cos my bleeding just would not stop and I had to stay there for 10-15 min putting the pressure on the vein to stop the bleeding. and I was not taking anything except for prenatas, folate and progesterone. It does look like my blood maybe quite thin as it is. I am just not sure if making it thinner will make it any better.

also, I that major intra abdominal bleeding I had after EC in September and I was told that maybe I am not clotting as well as I should. and that happened before I was supposed to start Clexane.

I sent all my test results to Munich and will wait for them to tell me if I should be taking any blood thinning medication.

StaceyM, thank you for posing your opinion. I was actually very happy to read itbecause deep down I really do not want to start hormone replacement therapy but there is a tiny part of me that keeps wondering if I may be deluding myself and delaying the inevitable. I will be seeking a second opinion but I am pretty sure any doc in the UK will say the same that my TSh is within the norm and my T3/T4 are mid range so i do not need to take the hormone. which is what i want to hear but is this really true? and if so why most IVF clinics will not let you cycle with them if your TSH above 2.5 unless you are on hormone replacement? they are concerned with their success rates and they probably know imperially that higher normal TSH + lower normal T4 means no pregnancy/ miscarriage etc??

The fact that your TSH was 2.6 in pregnancy is really good actually, the lower the better, right? it just means that your body was comfortably producing sufficient hormone for the two of you in the first 3 months. It would be comforting to see somebody who has higher normal readings and a healthy pregnancy. I would feel more confident that my MMC was not due to thyroid.

I agree that TSH levels factual a lot. I can see this in my tests.

Vonn, I think you are right I read somewhere a while back that they are in the process of changing the TSH upper range to 3 in the US (not sure when this notion gets to the UK though).

 

[StaceyM]

Hey Vonn- Sorry to hear about your troubles. I just wanted to clarify that most of the things that you have discussed, I did not comment on in my first post. I think that your issues seem more complex - T3/T4 issues are poorly understood by the medical community, and I did not mention them once because I would not claim to know more than I do. I know it's easy to get defensive if you have had continuing difficulties, and it is your choice to listen/not listen as you wish, but be sure that you are critiquing me for the things that I am actually saying. I was mainly trying to help the ladies discussing a TSH of 2.8 and that was the focus of my discussion. I also DID in fact indicate that 5 was high, that my doctor considered my 5 high, and that my dosage would likely go up soon. 5 is considered high by most doctors, but generally only treated depending on a combination of symptoms, blood work for antibodies, and an ultrasound scan of the thyroid. I just wanted to clarify that if you are a 5.2 on a regular basis, and have weird T3/T4 numbers, my post was not directed at you. That does seem troubling. What I am saying is that a TSH of 5 on it's own is NOT LIKELY to be the reason for infertility. It may be a contributing factor, if there are other issues, but on its own it is somewhat unlikely. NOTE: I am not saying impossible, just unlikely. Please also know that correlation and causation are different things. You are saying that you have these symptoms (hair, gums) and that you have a high TSH. That does not mean that a high TSH caused these problems, but only that both of these things are true. There could be a primary concern causing both the high TSH and other symptoms. Have you considered that? ...because a TSH of 5 doesn't usually cause all of that. You don't have to consider my opinion, but I do, in fact, know what I am talking about. I've been on this particular boat for a very, very long time, and yes I dealt with dismissive doctors, and yes I had to advocate for myself, and yes I am well educated/well read. It is your choice.

Briss- I just wanted to clarify that I did conceive at 4.5-5.5 without a single issue, and am only 2.6 now that I am pregnant. As far as TSH is concerned a lower number is NOT better. When I was first sick I was very high (hyperthyroid) because my body overreacted to a perceived attack. My TSH was very, very low, at one point measuring >0.01 which means my thyroid levels were so high that my body was trying not to produce any. I had constant panic attacks (3 per day usually), I couldn't concentrate on anything; I couldn't read, watch tv, hold a conversation - I actually sat in a dark room and stared at the wall for 3 months. My heart pounded and I once didn't sleep for 5 days straight. I started having auditory hallucinations. I was having a thyroid storm which was misdiagnosed as anxiety attacks. I could have died. The reason why responsible doctors are careful about putting you on thyroxin when you don't need it is because high thyroid is very, very serious. High levels are as dangerous to your baby as low ones are in terms of both health and miscarriage. I sometimes wonder about fertility clinics. I feel like some private medicine is big business, and if they put you on thyroxin in order to boost their success rates, wouldn't that be them caring more about their reputation and bottom line than their patients' health? I'm not even sure how a TSH of 0.5 is better than one of 3ish. I certainly don't feel better when my number is that low. And if you are 0.5-1 and then get pregnant and your levels raise, what happens? It seems like the only reason to do that would be to hyper-stimulate your body unnaturally and then take you off when you conceive to prevent miscarriage. Yuch is what I say to that. Thanks - I think my numbers are great too, and my ObGyn and endocrinologist agree, but based on the American Thyroid Associations numbers listed below I should be below 2.5. That's the problem with internet stats. Only the Americans have begin to think about revising the high end number to 3, and note that they have been trying to do this for at least 10 years, because I asked my endocrinologist about it 10 years ago and she laughed. The truth is that Americans have a poor diet and a huge chemical load, one of the major suggested reasons for unexplained low thyroid function. It's kind of similar to the way that Americans started to over-prescribe antibiotics, and then they ended up with a bunch of healthy people who had C-Difficle. As for TSH, 3 is not the new 5, and my suggestion is not to take meds if you don't need to. 5 is on the very upper end it's true, but if 5 were high enough to prevent conception, then certainly at my age (39) there would have been a problem, and there just wasn't... and I am really, really not the exception. It's standard protocol here.

Anyway, I hope you all find out what is causing the problems. I fully expected to have issues and then didn't. Sometimes it is just so random.

 

[Nikki1979]

Hi, I dont post here often but thought I would share my views on thyroid issues. I dont know what is right or wrong but going by what my doctors have told me.

When I conceived my son 9 years, I was living in Canada at that time. At my first checkup, my GP had run a lot of tests and tsh was one of them since I have a strong family history of hypothyroidism. My tsh at that time was 1.5 but the GP didn't say anything so I figured all was okay.

2 years ago I started trying for a second child. Haven't been lucky so far but after my second miscarriage, my GP sent me to an endocrinologist as my tsh was 3.3 . I live in Australia now and after looking back at all my blood test results, I realized there was a note that in pregnancy the optimal tsh is below 2.5 My endocrinologist has said the same thing and she said that a tsh of 5 is normal if you are not pregnant or trying to conceive but if you are then below 2.5 is what you should aim for as you need t4 for both the baby and yourself.

Its not just Americans but here in Australia, they want it below 2.5 and even the thyroid Canada website states the same thing. I do know that different people react differently to hormones so do what you think is best for you. My FS wont even treat me unless my TSH is between 1-2 so I will just try and keep it at that.

 

[Briss]

Ladies, thank you, really interesting discussion on thyroid issues. Unfortunately it seems like there are two conflicting views i.e. upper threshold for TSH for fertility and tbh I am still very confused.

StaceyM, it's really encouraging that you conceived at 4.5-5.5 (btw do you recall what was your T4 level at the time i.e. normal, upper normal, lower normal?) but interesting that your TSH levels went down as you progressed through your pregnancy. I'd think they would go up because you are requiring more and more hormone as the embryo growth and needs more. having said that my TSh fluctuated: pregnancy started with 2.84, which went down to 2.46 during the first week after BFP, but then went up to 3.47 in the next two weeks which is when the embryo stopped growing. when my MMC was confirmed but before it actually started my TSH was back to normal 2.33 but T4 was in normal low range 14. Does it look like my thyroid was playing a part in my MMC?

I know what you mean that lower number is NOT better (both hyper and hypo run in my family), I meant lower normal. as far as I understand 1 seems to be the perfect number for TSH. Mine was never far below 2. but I hear you on " not to take meds if you don't need to", no medication is without side effects.

Nikki, thank you for your input. That's what I keep hearing from fertility clinics but then when go to an endocrinologist in the UK they tell you they cant do anything for you unless your TSh is over 4. I've been going in circles over this.

 

[Vonn]

Hi all, hope everyone is doing well! Just popping in to see what's happening for you, Briss, on your new cycle? I see you got AF. What did Munich say?

 

[Briss]

I got my AF and it looks OK, a bit heavier than usual but otherwise seems normal. I really want to do IVF but Munich did not respond to my emails I may go head with a different clinic because I just can't sit there wasting an egg this month. Will do a scan on CD7-8 and bloods and I guess that would make it clearer if we can proceed with EC this month.

Vonn, how are you? any symptoms?

 

[Vonn]

Briss--that's too bad about Munich. They aren't too good with the communication. Will you try Spain or go back to Czech?

AFM--I am 9DPO today, not really any symptoms. I usually have really sore, tender bbs from ov to AF, but this time, no tenderness. I am on different progesterone and twice as much of it. I guess they were tender becus I didn't have enough progesterone? Or maybe it's a side effect of the trigger shot? Idk. I go in for a blood test on 12DPO, so I'll know on Wed. Trying to stay positive since some get lots of symptoms, but others have none.

Hi to everyone else! Any updates?

 

[nobump]

Hi weekend in Nice was fab. DH also organised a surprise party for me. Nearly missed it. Wanted to just eat and go back to hotel. .... but was talked round. I had my suspicions. I am wiped out with tonsillitis. Hoping hot toddie will help cure it. Been o throat spray cough bottle and last of the penicillin I had....

Have private appointment tomorrow evening so working from home so can have a long lie.

Vonn hope no signs is a good sign.

Briss that must be so frustrating.

Xxxx

 

[Briss]

spoke too soon, AF is really heavy, it's been 4 days (and 4 ruined panties!). usually i only get 2 days of heavy flow. maybe they are right that i should skip this cycle. I went for FSH/AMH today as well but I may regret it. I also decided to see Dr Gorgy to discuss my immune/blood clotting tests, maybe he can also explain my thyroid situation.

I was considering Reprofit in CR but after two failed cycles with them i am just not sure. I approached clinics in Spain but none f them responded, they do not seem to be big on natural IVF.

Vonn, it's so hard to tell re symptoms. both times I had BFP I had a feeling something was going on but it was barely there and I thought I was just making it up in my mind. I did have breasts pains both times but it was no different to many BFN cycles so I attributed this symptom to progesterone and ignored it. although after BFP my breasts started to grow and change very quickly and beyond recognition. I really hope you will get good news soon.

nobump, your birthday party sounds great. sorry about tonsillitis, I had it in Jan and it was awful but antibiotics helped very quickly.

 

[nobump]

Briss that's not good your having a heavier bleed. How long do you have to wait for the results?

Afm will be getting a hystoscopy and d&c next week. Just need to try and get ride of tonsillitis/chest infection first as need a GA. Booked a gp appointment for tomorrow might need some antibiotics. Doc did a scan and there is a growth a neck of womb if it's a polyp he'll remove it. If it is a fribriod not sure may depend on access. Hopefully this will stop my heavy bleeding.

 

[Jazzbird]

Briss - I saw Dr Zhai on a bbc documentary last night. You can catch it on iplayer. It's called "inside Harley street".
X