Chinese Accupuncture

[Briss]

Vonn, it's good that you carry on with acu, I am sure it's doing something positive and keeps you young. i had a chinese doc who actually thought it was good when needle hurts it means it's working, they even have a term for this in chinese. i had physio when i was pregnant for my back and they also used needles to release muscles and it hurt but it worked beautifully i could feel the difference immediately. diet is also great, i was also dieting when i got pregnant. although i stopped immediately after BFP and gained 20 kg... still have 10 kg pregnancy weight to lose.

why were the cycles canceled? is it because they could not line up the donor? maybe see how the july cycle goes and if they cancel again start looking elsewhere? i usually tried 2 cycles with a clinic and if nothing worked moved on but this means cycles that went to EC at least. i had many canceled cycles but with natural IVF it's the case cos it's easy to miss ovulation.

I know what you mean re changing clinics, i spent so much time looking abroad and finally found a clinic and we tried twice and it did not work and yet i really could not find it in me to do all that research all over again. i am glad i did in the end. and i really can't say why i got pregnant both times in Munich and never in Brno. but i do believe it's to do with the clinic and lab in particular and possibly with the doctor who performed EC/ET.

my labour was rather long, two days!! it might be my fault cos i wanted natural birth and perhaps i was naive. i learnt hypnobirthing and various other techniques and was sure i was prepared but frankly nothing can prepare you. my baby was also quite big 4.250 kg while i am petite this was definitely a factor. i do not want to scare you with details cos at the end of the day almost every woman will have a story to tell about her birth experience but yours (and I am sure you will get to experience it and hopefully soon) will be different to everyone else's.

the first weeks/months after birth and again it's different for everyone but for me it's been hard cos i ended up breastfeeding exclusively on demand and that means 24/7 some days I did not get to sleep at all, on good days i was getting 3 hours and only because my DH or mum would step in to take her so i could sleep. i also was not prepared at all. i did not read anything about what happens post birth because i was just so terrified even in pregnancy i would only read for the relevant week and not further i was scared. i did not buy any baby stuff except for hospital bag. so when we finally got our baby i did not even know how to change nappy and was afraid to touch her she seemed so fragile. it was a strange feeling cos I know so much about TTC stuff and almost nothing about pregnancy/baby stuff.

but this is nothing trust me, because at the end of the day I feel happy every day. not the entire day of course but many times a day.

I just got my bloods and they are not great. i will have a scan later this month to see how things are looking after birth. i also started using my CBFM but have not seen a peak yet. if all goes well i am hoping to start natural IVF when she is 6 months. i still want to carry on breastfeeding so not sure if i can take any medication.

 

[Vonn]

Thanks for sharing, Briss. I'd like to breastfeed, as well. I'm assuming by on demand that you didn't pump at all. Is that the case? Do you know much about how it works to ttc while bf? Can you only do it if your period returns or can you take something to jump start your cycle while still producing milk?

The cancelled cycles were for a couple reasons. The most recent one decided not continue cycling, so wasn't available for another cycle. The other two tested positive as carriers for some genetic disease. They don't generally test the donors, but someone tested frozen eggs from the donor we had reserved and were about to start with (the day after baseline scan and labs that gave us the go-ahead). They said once they had that info that they couldn't let her cycle anymore. I was really, really upset. The clinic told us that they would do the genetic screening on any donor we wanted, so we picked another one and she also tested positive as a carrier for some condition.

We are gonna try again with them. Picked another donor, waiting to hear if she wants to go again. I'm tempted to change to Reprofit, but DH isn't quite there yet and I can understand that.

 

[Briss]

do you know what genetic decease it was? it sounds very strange that they randomly decided to test the eggs (were they eggs or embryos?) and so late when you already started your cycle. sounds irresponsible but then IVF world is like that unfortunately.
are you still going to use your DH's sperm? it all does not sounds very promising to me, I would be thinking about switching clinics tbh.

on demand means you feed the baby when she asks for it which in my case is all the time wiser women establish some kind of routine say feeding every 3 hours, I was not able to that. i followed WHO guidelines a bit too literally. also waited for a month before i tried introducing dummy and bottle and unfortunately by that time my DD was smart enough to know the difference and rejected it all. it also makes it harder to go out co I have to be prepared to BF anytime anywhere, a bit outside my comfort zone but when you baby is crying you will do anything

I am still not sure how TTC and BF work. in my case it seems to me that I still have a cycle, unlike most women who don't have a cycle for a few months after birth when they BF. My cycle is still very unusual so i am not sure if this is it. also got my bloods back and they are not what I am used to. i hope my scan later this months can clarify what's going on.I know that in a natural world some women successfully combine pregnancy and BF but then they get pregnant naturally so it might be different. I'd like to go to Munich but will contact them later on when I have had my scan. still not sure how we are going to fly over there for EC/ET with a small baby but i'll cross that bridge when it comes.

 

[gingmg]

BRISS!!!!!! Massive congrats on the birth of your baby girl!! I am over the moon happy for you!! I wondered if you had gotten pregnant and were too afraid to say it out loud here. Im so glad you came back to update, I was afraid I'd never know. You had such a tough road, you deserve every ounce of happiness. I'm full of smiles for you.

I am still breastfeeding my son too and just recently had an appointment with my RE to talk about a FET to try for number 2. She said it was her policy that I stop before she will let me move forward. It has nothing to do with the meds, because progesterone is actually safe while breastfeeding. She said prolactin levels remain elevated during lactation and that in some people, elevated prolactin levels can inhibit implantation. Obviously, that's not true for everyone because there are so many women out and about in society who get pregnant while breastfeeding. I was willing to take the chance that the frozen cycle may not take so not have to wean my son completely but she said she has a strict no breastfeeding policy. Looking on here, some people's clinics are supportive of continuing breastfeeding while moving forward with either a natural cycle or a frozen cycle but unfortunately, my clinic is not one of them. I hope your clinic is supportive and that you can move forward when you feel that you are ready.

Reading your updates has literally been the highlight of my day. Massive congrats Mama!!!

 

[gingmg]

Vonn- I am so sorry you have had such a tough time in the donor front. That must be so hard. To finally make the decision to move forward with DE only to keep getting delayed. I have no doubt you will have a successful pregnancy once the donor situation gets sorted out.

 

[terripeachy]

Congrats Briss!!!

 

[Vonn]

Gingmg--thanks for the positivity. I am falling into the numb feeling, less and less disappointed with the setbacks and less hopeful with each new choice. I'm sure it's just self protection, but it's scary none the less to not be excited anymore.

Would you consider switching clinics to find one that will let you transfer? Maybe that's not feasible because you have an embryo there that you wouldn't move, I can't recall your situation. I'm sure once you want to start, you just want to start! GL.

Briss--the clinic didn't test the eggs, a customer bought some and had them tested. I don't know why they did it and I don't know what disease either of the women tested for...confidential information. This has put the clinic in an awkward position and I have begun to lose trust in them. We just don't have the money to just go anywhere. And since it may take more than one try, it's a little easier to have a clinic in the US for ease of travel. But, again, I am close to saying let's just go to Reprofit. What is your feeling about the Munich clinic, in terms of donor egg? I know you aren't doing it, but do you know if they do that?

What are you hoping the scan will show? If there is anyone who could figure out the logistics of baby and IVF abroad it's you, I have no doubt you will figure that out. Have you reconnected with any of the people in your life you'd dropped out of touch with? Your life has changed so much.

 

[Jazzbird]

Briss - I have thought about you often over the past year and hoped and prayed you have your much wanted baby. I'm absolutely thrilled for you to read your wonderful news. Huge huge congratulations.

The breast feeding should hopefully get less demanding as her tummy grows. Mine wouldn't take a bottle either but I eventually got some success with MAM bottles. I used to express a bottle so my husband could feed and put her to bed.

Vonn so sorry to read about your setbacks. Hoping everything gets moving again for you soon.

Miss this thread. Wonderful to see it active again xxx

 

[Briss]

gingmg, Thank you. I'm sorry your clinic wouldn't allow you to cycle while BF. I'll be checking with Munich clinic once I had my scan. My prolactin levels are actually the same as before pregnancy. this may explain why I suspect I do not have that much milk and my DD is putting on weight pretty slowly 3 kg in 4 months. it also may explain why I started to have a cycle and even LH surge right after birth. it does not look like my normal cycle but hopefully i still have eggs. It's good to know that progesterone is safe while breastfeeding. I would really like to BF for as long as possible.

Vonn, I totally understand you re self preservation thing, i remember going through back to back natural IVF cycles without any expectation of a bfp. even on the cycle I got pregnant I tested early and got bfn and did not even think of retesting the next day, just got so used to it not working, having low expectations helped being less heartbroken every time we failed. re testing eggs, i would also start losing trust in the clinic but it's really hard to say. our Munich clinic did not seem like a good bet at first, i had failed cycles in top London clinics and this small family run clinic just did not feel like it can offer a better service. my first cycle did not go beyond the first couple of scans which was disappointing but I carried on with them and somehow it worked. sometimes you need to try it and even if does not look promising it can still work.

this is my clinic https://www.ivf-bbn.de/en/home/ i could not find anything on donor eggs but you can ask them directly. Retrofit and Gennet in CR really specialise on these kind of treatments so they are easier to work with.they are also used to overseas patients whereas my clinic is very local and I was constantly asked why i was there rather than in London A fellow B&B TTCer who lives in Germany recommended this clinic otherwise I would not even be able to find it, i think they only translated their webpage in English fairly recently. I had two cycles in Retrofit and I really liked them, also easier and cheaper travel/hotels/food etc but something just did not work.

I hope my scan shows that everything looks normal and that I have follicles and pretty much ready to start TTC

re reconnecting with people in my life I'd dropped out of touch with, I have to say some friendships have been lost. but then I was very happy to discover that vast majority of my friends have not forgotten me over the years but rather understood my need to be left alone to get on with my mission and were patiently waiting for me on the other side I gradually get in touch with my old friends as i feel more and more comfortable talking about my changed circumstances and they seem to be accepting me like nothing happened. I feel slightly guilty cos in most cases i initiated the falling out but then I did what i had to do to survive. some of my friends have no idea I've been TTC and all the struggle I went through and i think it's for the best cos not everyone can really understand. even now I am still traumatised by years of TTC, my whole way of looking at things in life changed. I just hope I can make myself appear a more positive person for the sake of my daughter.

Jazzbird, thank you! I was so hoping she would take bottle so like you said my DH could take care of her for a few hours so I could get some sleep. it was so important the first 3 months as I was not getting any sleep during the night she was BF non stop through the night and during the day but no such luck. now it's much better as she wakes up a few times during the night but the feeds are quick so I manage to sleep. we also share the bed so I try to sleep while she is feeding. Do you have any plans to TTC again?

 

[Jazzbird]

Hi Briss - we are TTC at the moment. I've got very mixed feelings as things still not right down below. I've never had bowel probs in my life but suffered with fissures after birth that just don't seem to heal well. I finally got off laxatives a year after she was born but last week I started bleeding again after a painful movement. I'm prone to constipation now. Back on laxatives and doing a major diet overhaul. Basically need to go paleo or paleo lite.

I'm also missing my own life as I've been stay at home 2 years now. But having said all that I want her to have a sibling.

Perhaps c section is the answer. I was truly shocked when I was seeing a colorectal surgeon that they all send their wives for c section as all they see are damaged falulas all day long!

 

[Jazzbird]

Btw Briss and you probably already know this but good to take floradix whilst BF and ttc. Also recommend boiling up chicken carcass with feet and neck if you can stomach for several hours and put a cup of that into your meals every day. It is good to build up blood after pregnancy, birth and BF.

 

[Briss]

Jazzbird, this is so great that you are also TTCing! I am with you re things still not right down below. apparently they are going to tell women now of the risks of vaginal delivery not just CS. see,s sensible to me. I had a very long labour and a big baby. was told it's going to be fine but it was really hard. in the end my body gave up and contractions started to slow down so I was transferred to the labour ward and ended up with epidural, hormonal drip and episiotomy. They had to put on a lot of stitches and my scar feels funny, I can literally feel it when I walk. not nice but i decided to try for a baby first and then may go for a minor reconstructive surgery. also I have zero sex drive, none at all. I've never felt like that in my life. I hope it's to do with BF and will correct itself in time.

I saw a private gyno about my situation and she just said this is normal but new normal post birth, that's vaginal delivery for you her opinion was that knowing the size of the baby i should've had cs. i was obsessed with having a "natural birth" as being safer. i still don't know which one is better.

I do not miss work, they tried to get rid of me after I announced my pregnancy and when i did not go voluntary they decided to build a case for "poor performance". my last trimester was very stressful and i only have to look forward to being fired when i return so I think Im going to stay on maternity for a year. looking for a job with a baby is going to be hard.

 

[Jazzbird]

Briss - the push (excuse the pun!) for natural childbirth in UK is awful. I did nct where we were all assured we'd be right as rain down below in 6 weeks. It took me nearly a year to start feeling normal. And this was the norm in my nct group. I have lost some feeling around my second degree tear but it's all healed well now. I even had a smear done a few months ago which was a bit sore - again the nurse said this was normal!!! 18 months after birth.

It's still very very early days for your recovery so not surprised things not feeling ok yet. The tissue is so swollen after birth it makes stitching it back accurately very difficult. Also I did find when I stopped bf at 11 months things much improved.

There are some theories that say as we evolved to walk on 2 legs our brains and heads grew much faster and made childbirth difficult. That theory could be rubbish I've not looked into it - but I reckon childbirth is not easy for humans! So if they advise c section go for it. I may push for elective if I get pregnant again. There's no badge of honour for natural delivery.

 

[Jazzbird]

Briss - with all your Ttc knowledge I think there is a gap for an infertility counsellor or advisor. You'd be great!

I don't miss actual work just the process of doing something mentally stimulating and not having someone banging my knees whilst on the loo.

 

[Briss]

Jazzbird, my nct group is the same, only CS girls had straightforward birth experiences, all other ladies have a story to tell about theirs. it's interesting to think that in the old days it's possible labour/birth was not painful. I think even now some women have easier time than others. I went to hypnobirthing class and read lots of books on various techniques and possibly if my labour was shorter, say hours rather than days I would be able to bear it more successfully. but as it stand it was rather horrible and tbh things like hypnobirthing is just a big lie. when it comes to pain except for epidural there is nothing that can make it any better. although i did find it more bearable in the pool and walking about. without epidural I can't see how i would manage to cope with contractions just lying on the bed. in fact I have no recollection of a few hours preceding epidural, it was good my DH was there to keep an eye on things, turns out i was out of it even though he says i was conscious. must be some kind of self preservation mechanism kicked it and this part was erased from my memory.

I also had second degree tear but it seems to have healed. it's the episiotomy scar that's causing issues as well as generally my internal tissue hasn't shrunk back and just hangs at least I was told my cervix is back to normal so can hold another pregnancy (if I am lucky to get pregnant that is). Im not sure about cs on the nhs. if i could have it privately and choose my surgeon that would be a different story. otherwise it's a matter of luck who your surgeon going to be and how experienced he is. tbh i do not trust the system and wanted as less intervention from medical staff as possible. I guess that's why i ended up in labour for 2 days but then who knows maybe that's how long my body needed to take to help my baby decent considering her size (she was 4.3 kg at birth while I am rather small). btw an infertility counsellor or advisor - that's a thought!

vonn, sorry we are talking birth/labour. let me know if you are uncomfortable with it. I can't seem to shut up about it, some sort of post traumatic stress disorder. any news on your donor yet?

 

[gingmg]

Jazz and Briss- I'm sorry you had such difficult births and complications afterwards. I don't blame you for being nervous to do it again. Maybe a CS Jazz is the way forward for you. You'll figure that out. I think it's interesting that you feel there is a push towards natural delivery in the UK. I definitely think it's very much the opposite here. It's almost laughed at to talk about a natural delivery and even using a midwife is very very rare. In the end, birth is so unpredictable and nothing really prepares you for the experience anyway. I think some people just get lucky and have the experience they were hoping for.

Briss I'm happy to read that you have reconnected with some old friends. I'm sorry your job was so unsupportive of you becoming a mother. I'm enraged to read that. Women do not have to choose between a career and a family!! I hope you find a job that is more suitable to your needs. Just curious, what made you come back to update?? I've thought about you and Blythe a lot since this thread has gone inactive and for a long time I just thought TTC had become too much. Relatively recently I saw a post that mentioned you saying you never announced your pregnancy here. I am so happy to know it was all true information. I prayed it was. I can imagine it will take time to move on from that pain and trauma of TTC. I've only recently been telling people I had IVF to have my son. I was ashamed and hadn't told many people in my real life. I now can say it out loud without my own baggage attached to it.

Von- yes please do say if these conversations are too much.

 

[Jazzbird]

Actually Briss I did read episiotomy much harder to recover from than a natural tear. Give it time. Hopefully things will settle down - if not just holler and they will refer you for a small op.

I don't trust the system either. I don't know why but UK seems to worship NHS like it can never do wrong. Don't get me wrong - it is wonderful to have a "free" healthcare system but that doesn't mean it is devoid of fault. I was at home trying a home birth and kept calling the labour line to get them to send out a midwife. They refused as my contractions were not fitting the standard number of minutes - 3 minutes apart lasting 1 minute in duration. In the end we lied and by the time the midwife arrived I was already 8cm dilated. It turns out they were short staffed and were sending women away from the hospital. I was in a birthing pool at home with gas and air and that was magnificent. Painful but manageable. It was when I transferred to hospital everything slowed down. Then I had ventouse as her hand was over her head. They were going to do episiotomy but said I looked like I could deliver naturally and that's when I tore. I'm pleased I did in the end as I think episiotomy much harder to recover from.

Yes sorry ladies to talk about birth trauma on a ttc thread of course all this drama pales into insignificance when baby is handed to you.

 

[Vonn]

I don't mind you ladies discussing such things. It gives me a window into what might be coming my way. There is a strong push in some circles here to stay away from c-sections & really push for vaginal birth, so your discussion on that front is quite interesting. Some feel that drs just want to schedule births for convenience & push for c-sections before they are medically necessary. And regarding pain relief, I think in the US it is much more common than in UK to use drugs, esp epidural. Women will say they want natural but I think it's actually way less common in US than in UK.

I really don't know what I will end up doing. Since I have candida and my gut microbiome seems to be out of whack, I am very concerned about potential transfer to baby and about how the baby is seeded with beneficial bacteria in the womb and during vaginal delivery.

Interesting article: https://www.primal-baby.com/beneficial-bacteria-in-pregnancy/

I am literally doing everything I can to get things in order, been on the candida diet for over 5 months (still in the killing-off phase, which surprised my dr) and am taking lots of supplements. Have now realized I have low stomach acid and need digestive enzymes so have added those into the mix. And we still can't figure out exactly why my T3 (the active thyroid hormone) doesn't get into my cells at the right rate. Thought it was too high a level of reverse T3 blocking, but treated for that and it didn't seem to make a difference. Now my dr has added vitamin A as that has a role in cell receptor functioning in the gut. While ttc I have to be on the right balance of hormones for baby; the amount of T3 that feels good to me would be too much for baby, making him/her hyperthyroid. It's a vicious cycle because if thyroid function isn't optimal it can cause lots of problems, but there's something causing the thyroid function to be off....how to know what's causing what what is the root issue is the big mystery of my health problems.

It's stressful. Infertility is stressful enough, but when you add in my age/how old do I want to be as a first-time mom issue, and then the pressure of figuring out health problems, it's incredibly stressful. It's put a lot of stress on my marriage and my ability to focus at work is crap. There is a manager position opening for my team, and I will go for it, but fear I haven't done enough the past couple years to get it. We really need the money, so I don't want to lose out...but I'm just not sure I've done enough to warrant getting the promotion. This is one of the few such opportunities at my work place & there's basically nowhere else to go to do this work, so I'm feeling the pressure on this front, too.

Briss, you asked about a new donor. One of the two I inquired about said yes and they have done the blood draw for the genetic screening. I will check in next Friday and should find out if she is good to-go. If so, the plan is for baseline the last week in August, putting us at mid-September for retrieval/transfer.

Geez, I really rambled on today. Sorry about that....guess I needed to vent! I hope everyone has a great weekend. It's fun to hear from you all and have this thread active again!

 

[gingmg]

Thanks for the article Vonn. I never thought about the bacteria the baby is exposed to in utero, I've only thought about it in terms of the baby actually passing through the birth canal and of coarse breastfeeding. I've been hearing more and more about Drs who put gauze inside a woman while they are prepping for a caesarean and then wipe the gauze on the baby's mouth and eyes when born to mimic a vaginal birth in which the baby gets exposed to lots of bacteria. There is thought that it is a good first jump to their immune system.

And in regards to the food supply- it's awful. Everything is pumped full of hormones, antibiotics, and is genetically modified and then we wonder why health problems are on the rise.

Im sorry you are struggling to get the right balance in regards to your thyroid function. Sounds complicated. What kind of health problems were you having?

 

[Briss]

gingmg, it's all pretty much driven by midwives here, you only see a doctor if you have complications or need a cs. I did not mind that actually because midwives are more accustomed to seeing normal birth while docs are used to seeing complications so they tend to see more risks and intervene quicker than perhaps necessary. all interventions have side effects so you really want it to be used strictly on must have basis. although having gone through labour i am really not sure anymore.

we decided not to tell anyone about IVF. I mean i did tell medical staff during pregnancy so it's in the records but i did not want to tell friends and family. when my daughter is old enough i will tell her and it's up to her whether she wants to share this with anyone. i find it uncomfortable that i am now effectively lying to everyone but we made that decision with DH and I am going to stick to it.

Jazzbird, i also read that episiotomies are more traumatic and had it in my birth plan that i want a natural tear if it comes to it. however, after pushing for over an hour my DD's HB started to play up and I could sense that the doctors started to prepare for instrumental delivery which I did not want. so when my MW suggested episiotomy I was happy with it. my DD came out the very next push after episiotomy so I do think it was a size issue. we still have not BD cos i just do not feel normal. had a scan today and i could feel my bits inside are still rather sensitive and it all feels so different. there is actually a lot of things that are different after pregnancy and birth, i feel like i am falling into pieces with my back constantly in pain, for some reason i can't walk fast anymore, i can't even get off the floor easily. i should not complain i never did any exercise so i guess my body just is not strong enough. and yet i badly want to get pregnant again.

i am impressed you opted for home birth. i was thinking about it but because of her size in the end decided to go for birth centre. I also had a private midwife with me but she turned out to be useless...

dd is crying again will have to finish my post later